I am really starting to hate this woman.

[Tarkus]

"(Augusta National) should not be shocked by the KKK's endorsement," Burk told the newspaper. "They have behaved in a manner that attracts this type of support. They are going to have a real circus if this goes on.

"If I was Augusta National, I would spare my golfers, my members, my patrons, the city and citizens of Augusta, and the tournament all the trouble by simply opening membership immediately to women or announcing a plan to do so in a reasonable amount of time."

Stupid bitch. Now, because Augusta wants to keep their mens only club they are attractive to the KKK. What an idiot.

Tarkus

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by Tarkus


Stupid bitch. Now, because Augusta wants to keep their mens only club they are attractive to the KKK. What an idiot.

Tarkus

Uh... Yeah. That seems to be what the KKK is saying:

A Ku Klux Klan group has asked for a permit to demonstrate in support of Augusta National Golf Club's right to an all-male membership, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Friday.

"We intend on making speeches and picketing for the right of the Augusta National Club to include only members of their choice regardless of race, religion, sex or creed,'' said J.J. Harper, identified by the newspaper as the imperial wizard of the American White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

[sachmo71]

Don't hold back now, Tarkus!

Who said this and what were they talking about? Could you post a link to the article or post it so I can read the whole thing?

[Bishop]

Originally posted by sachmo71
Don't hold back now, Tarkus!

Who said this and what were they talking about? Could you post a link to the article or post it so I can read the whole thing?

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/story?id=1515675

[RendeR]

I have to admit, I'm very angry about this as well. This is a private establishment, and as far as I've seen a private business has always retained the right to refuse service to whomever they choose.

The club was created, maintained and flourished for this many years as a male only country club. Why the hell should they be forced to accept female members? They aren't saying you can't join a country club at all, they are simply saying you can't join that one.

I don't give a rats ass about the KKK, they are honestly groping at anything to get their name in the paper. They've become a laughingstock and one I hope will soon fade away into antiquity.

Augusta has every right to maintain their male only membership. Now if they accepted tax money to maintain the place I might change my mind, but I shudder to think that anyone with enough money to be a member would allow the club to fall into that trap.

Private means private, they don't have to share if they don't want to share. period. When this woman builds her own golf course and country club, I encourage her to accept only female members. Or whomever she feels she wants as members.

Until then she should shut the hell up about it and get a life.

[RonnieDobbs]

Originally posted by Tarkus
"(Augusta National) should not be shocked by the KKK's endorsement," Burk told the newspaper. "They have behaved in a manner that attracts this type of support. They are going to have a real circus if this goes on.

"If I was Augusta National, I would spare my golfers, my members, my patrons, the city and citizens of Augusta, and the tournament all the trouble by simply opening membership immediately to women or announcing a plan to do so in a reasonable amount of time."

Stupid bitch. Now, because Augusta wants to keep their mens only club they are attractive to the KKK. What an idiot.

Tarkus

No offense meant by this at all. I am legitametly curious as to why this seems to be such an emotional issue with people. I don't give a rat's ass about golf, so I really don't care. I understand and agree with the "it's a private club" argument, but is that argument the root of all the hostility?

I guess I want to know why this is SUCH a hotbutton issue.

[RendeR]

OMG, I'm not the only person who uses "I don't give a rat's Ass"???


thanks man ! =)

[John Galt]

Yeah, this is just freakin ridiculous.

I mean this is a PRIVATE club. If I want to get together with my other white, male, heterosexual friends, then I should be able to without those "bitches" "darkies" and "fags" around. I mean there is no harm in me getting together with those like me and excluding those that aren't. When will this political correctness stop?

Sure, I may talk about business at the club and make connections that allow me to get a leg up on the competition. Yeah, this "private" club isn't that different from the "private" company I work it. Come to think of it, why don't we stop hiring women? Who needs them anyway?

Now that I think about it, let's change all our "private" organizations to exclude women. I mean, they are "private" after all. Women can form their own "private" clubs. Why wouldn't that work? Sure, the fact that men run most of the businesses in the U.S. and own most of the wealth means women may not have access to them, but that just means they have to try harder. After all I earned all my wealth, didn't I?

And who cares that this is the most famous "private" golf club in America and that it is broadcast into every TV across the land. I'm not responsible for the messages that are sent by my "private" club.

It's mine - and I don't want "bitches" in it. So just leave me alone. I'm going to my club to hang with the KKK.

[DeToxRox]

Rick Reily, a writer I don't always agree with, tried getting membership into an all female club in Toronto, and was denined. Where was Martha Burke there?

Martha Burke is a hypocritical, Lifetime Movie of the Week bitch.

[CamEdwards]

John, you poor misguided piece of flesh.

First of all, let's note who's using the word bitches, darkies, and fags.

It's not Hootie Johnson, my friend... it's you.

Second of all, who does care that this is most famous private golf club in America? I mean, good lord, I guess if they're going to let women in, they shouldn't discriminate on the basis of socio-economic level either, right? I've got five bucks, let me join Augusta.

There is a HUGE difference between a private golf club and a company, not the least of which is that there are laws governing discrimination in the workplace, whereas the Supreme Court has already determined private clubs have a right to allow whomever they want.

[Kodos]

Originally posted by John Galt
Yeah, this is just freakin ridiculous.

I mean this is a PRIVATE club. If I want to get together with my other white, male, heterosexual friends, then I should be able to without those "bitches" "darkies" and "fags" around. I mean there is no harm in me getting together with those like me and excluding those that aren't. When will this political correctness stop?

Sure, I may talk about business at the club and make connections that allow me to get a leg up on the competition. Yeah, this "private" club isn't that different from the "private" company I work it. Come to think of it, why don't we stop hiring women? Who needs them anyway?

Now that I think about it, let's change all our "private" organizations to exclude women. I mean, they are "private" after all. Women can form their own "private" clubs. Why wouldn't that work? Sure, the fact that men run most of the businesses in the U.S. and own most of the wealth means women may not have access to them, but that just means they have to try harder. After all I earned all my wealth, didn't I?

And who cares that this is the most famous "private" golf club in America and that it is broadcast into every TV across the land. I'm not responsible for the messages that are sent by my "private" club.

It's mine - and I don't want "bitches" in it. So just leave me alone. I'm going to my club to hang with the KKK.

RonnieDobbs:

I think it is people throwing hissy fits like this that annoys most of the people who otherwise wouldn't give a rat's ass about this entire issue. Like myself, for instance. I don't care about golf or Augusta, but I do get annoyed with the people who are making such a big deal out of something that really isn't. Surely there are more important things to worry about at the moment than whether a bunch of rich white male snobs want to play with themselves all alone. Hey, they would never want me in their club either, but the thing is: I just don't give a rat's ass. (I use that phrase a lot too!)

[rkmsuf]

Part of the issue of making it annoying is that it has gotten to a point of being a pissing match. I don't even think Martha Burke really cares about the issue anymore...she just wants to win. So does Hoottie. Whether there are or aren't women is secondary to the fight itself since at this point any women member would be just a token gesture...

[Qwikshot]

I can't wait...I wish I could go back to college, I'd go to an all girls school...I wish I was talented enough I'd play in the LPGA, on the WNBA...I have no problem if women want equality but then it's gotta be completely equal...while were at it, get some of those women on the front lines when the shit goes down in Iraq...

The KKK are a joke, but they've effectively forced the hand of the Augusta people, it was only a matter of time before the KKK would join in and put their two cents in...now Augusta has to consider whether or not to be considered sexist and racist, or neither.

[Bonegavel]

I agree with Cam.

John, I am slowly understanding why you occasionally post the powder-keg-threads that you do. This is seriously what you think about people that disagree with your leftist ideology?

[RendeR]

John,

the difference being argued here between private club membership and a company HIRING policy would seem to be obvious to most people. Perhaps I am mistaken. its happened before. So let me clarify this.

The Government has mandated that you cannot discriminate during the hiring process because that directly limits a persons ability to strive for life liberty adn the persuit of a mid day meal.

Purchasing a membership to a country club does NOT, in any way, limit or damage your ability to live, persue, and gain a lierated Free lifestyle. A membership to a country club is a commodity, its an item you purchase. its a thing. It is not a requirement for livelihood. This woman will still be able to live her pampered life, do whatever employment or social functions she desires, with or without a country club membership.

She does not have a RIGHT to a membership to any specific location. This is why I emphasize the "Private" part of that statement. this is not a corporation which is hiring this women. This is a candy store saying, "Hey, I'm only selling my candy to men" this is completely within the candy stores rights, and if the candy store can stay in business this way, they have every right to continue doing business the way they see fit.

I have not at this point, heard anything about Augusta National's hiring practices, do they have female employees? if not, then perhaps this women should apply for a JOB. Because that, IMHO, will be the only way she can claim a RIGHT to be considered.

[John Galt]

John, you poor misguided piece of flesh.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but it sounds pretty rude. I've said nothing personal about you, can you return the favor.

First of all, let's note who's using the word bitches, darkies, and fags.

Actually, "bitch" has been used by a couple people in this thread before me. Or is just ok to call women who argue for a cause a "bitch?"

I wrote a satirical post that argues that calling women "bitches" to dismiss them is the same as other slurs. In order to that, I have to use the slurs. I use scare quotes to show they are not words I endorse and find offensive.

Second of all, who does care that this is most famous private golf club in America? I mean, good lord, I guess if they're going to let women in, they shouldn't discriminate on the basis of socio-economic level either, right? I've got five bucks, let me join Augusta.

No, they shouldn't discriminate on the basis of socio-economic class, but the nature of business means they have to charge for admittance. If people can't afford it, then that is sad, but not discrimination. Excluding women from the club is not based on a good "economic" reason (just the same argument that keeps white men as news anchors on TV - because a portion of the public wants it that way).

There is a HUGE difference between a private golf club and a company, not the least of which is that there are laws governing discrimination in the workplace, whereas the Supreme Court has already determined private clubs have a right to allow whomever they want.

And the Supreme Court is never wrong. Plessy v. Ferguson was right on target when it said separate was equal!?!? And to deny that clubs are a major part of business life for men is nonsense. Most memberships at top clubs are paid by companies for their executives to make connections with others in the industy. As someone in the law, I know how screwed lawyers would be if they didn't make connections at exclusive social events like golf outings and cocktail parties. Women lose out on those connections when they can't join the rich boys clubs.

[John Galt]

This is seriously what you think about people that disagree with your leftist ideology?

I just want to state again, for the record, that I am not a leftist and am certainly a democrat. I just happen to believe that diversity and tolerance have a lot of value and that privilege and discrimination are a sad part of Moden America. I know lots of people on this board like to use "leftist" and "politically correct" as though they were swear words. I am neither politically correct nor leftist - I just happen to be someone who argues against discrimination.

And my post was just taking a satirical tact - it wasn't meant to be a powderkeg. I'm just following in the tradition of Swift with my own modest proposal.

[rkmsuf]

No, they shouldn't discriminate on the basis of socio-economic class, but the nature of business means they have to charge for admittance. If people can't afford it, then that is sad, but not discrimination. Excluding women from the club is not based on a good "economic" reason (just the same argument that keeps white men as news anchors on TV - because a portion of the public wants it that way).

Do you really believe the reason they charge extremely high entrance fees is because they have to mow the grass and clean the pool?

[Kodos]

John: I think that once again your condescending manner of communication is hampering your ability to get your point across. You may even have some valid points, but the way you argue them only serves to alienate the people you are trying to reach.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Lordy John, what in heaven's name possessed you to use the moniker John Galt? Sometimes I just shake my head, he is about 178 degrees the other way.

You keep on truckin though.

[John Galt]

RendeR, I think the above post answered your argument and I couldn't seem to get yours to Quote right. Anyway, I think clubs are both a commodity and a business area. Executives, lawyers, and other professionals rely heavily (almost exclusively) on social events and clubs to find clients and make contacts. Denying women those opportunities has the same effect as denying them advancement at their jobs.

[John Galt]

Do you really believe the reason they charge extremely high entrance fees is because they have to mow the grass and clean the pool?

No, but "prestige" and "name" factor into economic value. Otherwise Ralph Lauren would be out of business. Our economy isn't really composed of people making "rational" choices.

John: I think that once again your condescending manner of communication is hampering your ability to get your point across. You may even have some valid points, but the way you argue them only serves to alienate the people you are trying to reach.

Kodos, I appreciate you saying this, but I've run out of ideas about what to do. I can't seem to write without people thinking I'm being an ass or condescending. Believe me, I've tried. Maybe it is as someone has said on this board that lawyers just learn to write a certain way and they can't get out of it. I actually wrote my original post as satire hoping a different technique would prevent me from coming off the wrong way. I guess I failed again. And one other related point - I get called many things in the political threads I get involved in, yet I don't ever make it personal (except maybe once with Skippy). It just seems strange that people worry about my "condescending tone" when I get slurred and attack (what the hell is a "piece of flesh" supposed to mean anyway?). I do appreciate your comments and would welcome any advice.

[RonnieDobbs]

John: Do you also feel that all fraternities should become coeducational? It seems to be a pretty legit comparison, with the arguments about making connections and future financial gain.

[Marmel]

We are all just pieces of flesh (and bone, and blood, and...)

[John Galt]

Originally posted by RonnieDobbs
John: Do you also feel that all fraternities should become coeducational? It seems to be a pretty legit comparison, with the arguments about making connections and future financial gain.

Yes (or eliminated altogether).

[rkmsuf]

FWIW

I'd submit that "piece of flesh" is someone else's form of satire. I've never known Cam to be mean spirited. Maybe aggressive disagreement with your point isn't necessarily attacking you.

To the issue

Maybe someday we'll all be wearing unisex jumpsuits and using phrases like "Be well John Spartan" but for now it's just not like that.

Reality is that men and women are not the same. We don't have A Club. We have a Boys Club and a Girls Club. We have Scouts and we have Brownies. We have men's bathrooms and women's bathrooms...

If the concern is that corporate america is preventing women from succeeding then that is where the focus should go. We should be critical of the corporations choosing to exclude women be it overtly or covertly through exclusive social circles.

[RendeR]

But you must realize also john, that the club is not a requirement for any of that. if these clubs never existed, those jobs and contacts and backside trades would still continue.

I honestly do agree with you that those things do go on and are a large part of business for some people. I do not agree that they make or break anyone's career. So this particular woman is not allowed to be a member of the club, so what? if she has male friends who are members she can enjoy the club as often as she and her friend wish, thereby gaining access to those very same contacts.

What she is demanding is full membership. I simply cannot agree that she has any right to such a thing. I would love a country club membership, I am male. I will never see such a membership for any number of reasons, from socio-economic, to political attitude, to the fact that I hate suits and wouldn't wear them jsut because some fancy ass said I had to. my life will not be damaged for not having that membership, nor will I go without the ability to schmooze at that club because I have no way to get inside, I can always call a friend who is a member or contact the club for open visitation dates (which I believe Augusta does offer).

If I decide to open a football fan club, I pay to build a facility, hire staff and maintain the place. Why can I then not make policy for who should be allowed to use MY facility? Its no different for Augusta national, they have a board of directors, the club is not publicly funded in any way, they have every right in the world to say "NO" to female memberships. I'm sorry you feel that this is somehow putting women down, or making them less of a human being, but its not. Its a place created by a small group, to cater to that group and maintained by that group. She doesn't have a case.

By this same token the KKK does not allow blacks to be members. Would you argue that they must be forced to accept non-whites into their group? Its a privately funded organization. They have the right to delineate their membership, just as Augusta national does.

I personally think the KKK is laughable and that it really will die someday. I can hope at least. I try my best to be as open minded as possible about almost everything around me. Things may annoy me and piss me off, however, as long as they are doing what is legally their right to do. I can't say that they're wrong. I can always disagree with them. But I can't step out and sue them to try and force them to conform to what *I* believe is right.

If Augusta National is forced to allow female memberships a vital and very core freedom that this Nation and our society in general is based upon will begin to fail completely. Every person in the world has a right to decide who they will socialize with, play golf with, take a bath with, get drunk with or have dinner with. No-one, not you, not me, not the government should be allowed to step in and tell me, you or the groups of people we want to belong to, that we must tolerate something we choose NOT to tolerate in a social environment. Rules about discrimination are in place to protect peoples livelihoods, to create opportunities for people to advance in their chosen profession. It is not there to tell a bunch of old white redneck golfers that they have to allow a woman to sip gin in their club.

[Mustang]

Originally posted by John Galt
Anyway, I think clubs are both a commodity and a business area. Executives, lawyers, and other professionals rely heavily (almost exclusively) on social events and clubs to find clients and make contacts.

And women can't open their own golf club because....... ???

[digamma]

Don't be fooled, Hootie has had plenty to do with why this has gotten so much press.

[Samdari]

Here's the thing John, and please don' t think I endorse the ideology of exclusion, but every citizen has the right to think what they want and associate with who (whom? grammar help please) they want. If a bunch of crotchety old southern men want to think of women as a lesser sex, or other races, religions, sexual orientations, etc., as less than their own, it is their right to do so. As long as they are not operating a facility where the general public is welcome, the law gives them the right to exclude whoever they want. Hell, I'm a white protestant, and they're sure as hell going to spend eternity excluding me. I've decided to not let it bother me, and support these morons' right to be so very wrong.

[Tarkus]

I just have one more question, "Did we kick John Galt off the Island yet?"

Tarkus

[RonnieDobbs]

I guess I'm agreeing with Kodos. Why is this such a huge deal? It just seems to be attracting publicity hounds.

I happen to know of plenty of very successful men and women who have never been a member of Augusta.

[CamEdwards]

Piece of flesh wasn't meant to be mean, but I'm sorry if you took it that way.

Your argument is flawed, as far as the economics go. Obviously there is a huge demand to be a part of Augusta, which allows them to charge outrageous admittance fees. But if they were REQUIRED to admit women, admit blacks, admit gays, admit lesbians, admit one armed Venezuelan men named Jorge... well, all of a sudden the club becomes a heck of a lot bigger and they should be able to charge less money to be a member. Therefore, by your argument, they should open the doors to everyone and charge 5 bucks a head. It's discrimination, pure and simple, that keeps me out of Augusta.

You say your against discrimination, and that's a noble cause... but the last time I checked we in America don't force others to be friends with people we don't want to be friends with. This has nothing to do with hiring... again, it's a private club. I say this as someone who fights against discrimination every day for the sake of my kids.

Would I belong to Augusta? Nope. I don't like their discriminatory practices. Do I think people like Martha Burke should point out what members belong to Augusta? Yep.

But do I defend Augusta's right to be sexist? Absolutely.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
Would I belong to Augusta? Nope. I don't like their discriminatory practices. Do I think people like Martha Burke should point out what members belong to Augusta? Yep.

But do I defend Augusta's right to be sexist? Absolutely.

Well said Cam. VERY well said.

[Mountain]

And John, always remember, the Supreme Court is not final because they are right, they are right because they are final.

[Maple Leafs]

John Galt, I don't claim to have read everything you've posted here so I have no idea whether this is your typical style or you're just having a bad day. But allow me to vent for a minute...

Originally posted by John Galt
Yeah, this is just freakin ridiculous... (etc., etc.)

What is it about the Internet and this type of argument? It seems like people think it's really clever to do the old "pretend to agree, then go off on an over-the-top tangent" routine?

Person 1: I like vanilla ice cream.
Person 2: I like vanilla ice cream too. In fact, why don't we all eat vanilla ice cream and then skin some puppies? After all, that way there would be more vanilla ice cream for us... etc.

Are the rest of us supposed to sit there going "wow, his clever satire really held up a mirror in front of us, causing us to re-examine the evil views we didn't even know we had"?

Take any discussion on any issue, and someone will pull this one out of their bag of tricks. The only thing that unites them is that they'll inevitably defend their "satire" by comparing themselves to Jonathan Swift.

[Tarkus]

What I wonder is why Martha is so focused on Augusta. Could it be for self advancement and notoriety? Maybe she figures that will provide her the most limelight. I wonder if she realizes there are many other men's golf clubs, and many of them don't even allow women to play. At Augusta women play all the time. If it were really the principle wouldn't she go after the clubs that don't even allow women in parking lot?

Tarkus

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Well said Cam. VERY well said.

Agreed.

I've been wondering just how far and how long this will go. Hootie's already pulled advertisements. I wonder if out of principle he would ever pull the plug on the tournament (ok, that's an apocalyptic result as far as golf is concerned, but what recourse would Martha have then)?

[GrantDawg]

Ps. to all this...

The reason that the Clan is protesting really stems from the fact Jessie Jackson has said he'll be a part of the Burke protest. Before that, they were not interested. The racist jerks are just being true to form.

[JPhillips]

Cam: I don't think we agree on things very often, but on this we are on the same page.

I don'y have any problem with what Burke is doing. She has every right to organize protests and boycotts. She can yell and scream and do whatever she wants provided she violates no laws. Augusta, thoug, has every right to say "Screw you we are staying all-male." I don't agree with them, but as a private club they can be exclusionary.

They don't, however, have a right to be free from criticism. Let this play out and Augusta will either change or suffer the consequences of their decision. Either way its still going to be a haven for the ultra-rich and most of us will be excluded regardless of sex.

[Ryan S]

Has Augusta National ever said it would never consider a female member?

If not, I don't know why everyone is getting worked up about it.

Seems to me like Ms Burk is trying to make a name for herself, and attacking a club she knows the public will not support.

[mckerney]

The whole issue is kind of funny. They want the club to stop discriminating against women so a woman can become a member and join in on discriminating against people who aren't rich and don't have high social stature.



Though maybe the issue would be settled if they reopened the Gold Club.

[sterlingice]

I just don't give a rat's ass. (I use that phrase a lot too!)

I don't think that's a very unique phrase. I use it and a couple of friends I know do as well.

Maybe someday we'll all be wearing unisex jumpsuits and using phrases like "Be well John Spartan" but for now it's just not like that.

ROFLMAO! I saw that rececently when it was on TBS or something like that late at night. Still one of the best historical examples of a prodect placement in that movie, btw. That movie helped make Taco Bell what it is today.

but every citizen has the right to think what they want and associate with who (whom? grammar help please) they want.

It would be whom. Whomever would sound better, but you get the idea. It's an objective pronoun because it is the object of a preposition.

What I wonder is why Martha is so focused on Augusta. Could it be for self advancement and notoriety? Maybe she figures that will provide her the most limelight. I wonder if she realizes there are many other men's golf clubs, and many of them don't even allow women to play. At Augusta women play all the time. If it were really the principle wouldn't she go after the clubs that don't even allow women in parking lot?

Is there even a doubt that this is what she is doing?

SI

[oykib]

I have to agree with John on almost all of his points. He hasn't explicitly said that Augusta should be forced by law to accept female members.

But the thread was started with complaints about this 'bitch', who won't shut up. I think that's a problem. She should be able to exert any and all civil and media pressure to try to right what she feels is wrong.

As most of you would admit, this exclusionary business is wrong, even though it's not criminal. Why shouldn't she be able to shout about it?

[Leonidas]

I think this is all a hoot (no pun intended to Hootie, no really). Can you just imagine the board members at Augusta convening this week.

Some flunky comes up to Hootie: "Uh sir, the Klan is now protesting."

Hootie: "Protesting what boy?"

Flunky: "Uh, sir, they are protesting for us, against the les, I mean women."

Hootie: "Aww shit!"

[kcchief19]

So many people have completely misunderstood and misrepresented what this is about. No one leading this debat, especially Martha Burke, has ever said that Augusta has a legal obligation to let women or anyone else into their club. Just the opposite -- Augusta would appear to have a very clear right to keep the club men only.

The question from the very beginning has been SHOULD they keep it men only. That's an entirely different question.

Comparisons between Augusta and other club or organization is completely irrelevant. You cannot compare anything else to Augusta because Augusta is the alpha dog -- it's the best of the best. Martha Burke isn't trying to play bingo at the VFW Hall in Bumblefuck, Iowa. She's trying to get women allowed to be members and PLAY at the most renowed golf club in the country.

Letting women into Augusta is the right thing to do.

[CamEdwards]

caving into public pressure, allowing others to ramrod their idea of what is right and wrong down your throat, letting people trample over the idea that we have an inalienable right to be asshats... how is that ever the right thing to do?

Again, I think if Martha Burke wants to protest, let her, but she's protesting a basic American right. Hootie and the Blowhards will NEVER back down now, even though they were already talking with at least one woman about joining Augusta when Ms. Burke started her yapping.

[Fritz]

WE MUST HOMOGENIZE SOCIETY

[Joe Canadian]

I've said this again and again... if you are going to limit membership by gender don't be suprised if you're called a sexist, or compared to another prejudice group.

Every "private" club has the right to limit membership all they want based on whatever criteria they want. I agree 100% with that... thats what makes or society free. All I'm saying is that if you are going to limit membership based on sex, don't complain that people call you a sexist...

If this was a club limiting membership based on race, I think the other side would be getting alot more sympathy. But since it's just a gender issue it doesn't "appear" to be such a big issue.

I agree with what most of you are saying... that private clubs can limit membership in whatever way they want. Can the KKK realisticly complain when people call them racist??? I'm thinking no... but hey I could be stupid . So why is it different when people are making the limitation based on sex?

I realize that Augusta National members don't go out beating up women... but the basic principle of prejudice is pretty similar. I don't think the members are really all sexist, but their actions are... IMHO.

Peace!

[Fritz]

Future targets for Burk? Probably not.

http://www.dar.org/cgi-bin/natsociety/content.cfm?ID=145&hd=n&FO=Y
http://www.democraticwoman.org/heritage/
http://www.aswa.org/
http://www.abwa.org/index.asp
http://www.ms.foundation.org/programs-guidelines-choices.html
http://www.nwbc.gov/