Pro Football text sim options?

[Galaril]

So pretty much the pro football options are:

FOF- interface ugh
Action Football- just replay
SAT -got it great for replay only
Football Mogul- Still a buggy mess
Max Football-please
GreyDog Studios game that won't be out for years later since their are no screens or any info on the game at all.

Did I miss any? Kind of surprised this is the state of pro football. I mean for crying out load their two three wrestling text sims and two golf text sims and all pretty good.

[RedKingGold]

If the biggest reason for not getting FOF is interface issues, then I think you might have a bigger gaming issues than lack of Pro Football text sim options.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

If the biggest reason for not getting FOF is interface issues, then I think you might have a bigger gaming issues than lack of Pro Football text sim options.

If this is in question at all, then you haven't read his posts in the past.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

If this is in question at all, then you haven't read his posts in the past.

Oh, I am wounded

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

If the biggest reason for not getting FOF is interface issues, then I think you might have a bigger gaming issues than lack of Pro Football text sim options.

Sorry, FOF's spreadsheet game was great in 2002 not in 2007. That's all I am saying. And just for the record I don't enjoy the madden clickfests either. So yeah maybe it is just me. I do like BBCF.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Have you tried FPS Football Pro 99, I believe it will solve all your problems.

[Shkspr]

I hear Barbie Dream Vet has a pretty interface with lots of colors. None of those pesky "words" or "numbers", either.

[BigDawg]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

Have you tried FPS Football Pro 99, I believe it will solve all your problems.

Dam dont get that, get the 98 version... 99 is the biggest peice of crap ever produced

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by BigDawg

Dam dont get that, get the 98 version... 99 is the biggest peice of crap ever produced

I think someone's sarcasm meter is broken.

[Galaril]

Wow I woke up the FOF Homers look out.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Wow I woke up the FOF Homers look out.

Nah. IMO, I think FOF has plenty of problems, but the interface is not one of them.

Can I ask why you like the interface of BBCF so much? Don't you find it frustrating to have to click through 4-5 screens to get information you need?

Say what you will about the FOF-spreadsheet format, but at least everything is right in front of my eyes at once with pretty minimal clicking.

[BigMak]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Sorry, FOF's spreadsheet game was great in 2002 not in 2007. That's all I am saying. And just for the record I don't enjoy the madden clickfests either. So yeah maybe it is just me. I do like BBCF.

I agree with the interface. It is too outdated and makes me feel like I am still at work and not playing a game.

[Philliesfan980]

As an accountant working in Excel 95% of the time, I have to agree with you guys. It just feels too much like work at this point (text sims in general). Console games are catching up in terms of producing believable stats as it is.

[MizzouRah]

Wow, imo.. FOF's interface is 1000% better than SI's interfaces in their games.

I like that fact that everything is right in front of me. I know Jim likes Clay's work as well because BM's interface is right up there with FOF.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

As an accountant working in Excel 95% of the time, I have to agree with you guys. It just feels too much like work at this point (text sims in general). Console games are catching up in terms of producing believable stats as it is.

Have you ever played through a season of Madden?

[WVUFAN]

What's wrong with FOF's interface?

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Have you ever played through a season of Madden?

I usually quit when the computer offers to trade me their 1st round pick for my 4th & 5th rounders.*

*happend last year

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I usually quit when the computer offers to trade me their 1st round pick for my 4th & 5th rounders.*

*happend last year

BUT ITZ SO REAL!?!?!

EA 4 LIFE MF'

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Have you ever played through a season of Madden?

I haven't, but there's promise this year. I don't need 100% believable stats, just something in the realm of possibility. Other genere's are producing good stats (i.e. NBA 2k series, MLB isn't too bad either)

Like I said, this isn't a shot at FOF at all, just text sims in general. I used to play all the time when I was in college & even after I graduated for a year or two. But the fun has faded for me. When I work with numbers and other analysis all day, I just don't feel like clicking around with a mouse - I do that enough already. I would rather play something graphically pleasant and deal with the other shortcomings of the game.

Not for everyone, and I totally understand that.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BigMak

I agree with the interface. It is too outdated and makes me feel like I am still at work and not playing a game.

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

As an accountant working in Excel 95% of the time, I have to agree with you guys. It just feels too much like work at this point (text sims in general). Console games are catching up in terms of producing believable stats as it is.

I agree that is really what I meant the interface feels to much like work. And I understand your pain Philliesfan as I too worked a number of years for a Big 4 public accounting firm in IT security auditing and had to deal with Excel way too much.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I used to play all the time when I was in college & even after I graduated for a year or two. But the fun has faded for me. When I work with numbers and other analysis all day, I just don't feel like clicking around with a mouse - I do that enough already. I would rather play something graphically pleasant and deal with the other shortcomings of the game.

Not for everyone, and I totally understand that.

I feel the same way, but I think it reflects more on where I"m at in life rather than the quality of the games.

[molson]

Call me crazy, but isn't a spreadsheet format the IDEAL way to present information in a text sim?

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by molson

Call me crazy, but isn't a spreadsheet format the IDEAL way to present information in a text sim?

It is, it's the perfect way! Unfortunately my choice of profession is making me not want to play these types of games anymore.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by molson

Call me crazy, but isn't a spreadsheet format the IDEAL way to present information in a text sim?

It is, and all text sims show their info in spreadsheet format. FOF, BBCF, FM, it's all a spreadsheet style format. Some games are just better at "hiding" the format than others.

Part of it is to make people feel like they are not looking at a spreadsheet (for the people who don't want to look at a spreadsheet, that is). Another part of it is to have portions of the game that aren't "info". For example, interacting with the media in FM. You do that through messages, choosing your response, etc. That's a part of the entire FM experience that doesn't rely on presenting the player with a lot of info. You simply see the media's message, be it a comment or a question, and sometimes you get to respond and then see the reaction to your response.

The problem with FOF, IMO, isn't so much that it presents all of its info in spreadsheets (since all text sims do, some just dress them up all nice and pretty), but it's that all there is to do in the game is look through spreadsheets. There's no "media mini-game" like in FM to take you away from it for just a few minutes. I personally don't have a problem with just viewing spreadsheets of information and then making decisions, simming a week, and then looking at more spreadsheets to make more decisions before simming another week. However, when people complain about the interface, I think the real, core problem that people have isn't really the interface, it's just that everything there is to do in FOF has you looking at a spreadhseet of info to make a decision, instead of having you read a message and then make a decision, or have you look at just one piece of info that you could dress up all nice on a screen to make a decision. (Although I'm sure there are people who just think the UI is butt ugly, but I think for most people it's that all there is to do is look at spreadsheets in the game, not that there are spreadsheets.)

[molson]

OK, I see what you're saying.

Personally, I love the "main" spreadsheet interface of FOF, I think it's perfect. It's super-intuitive, so much so that since I've been "raised" on it on a text sim sense, I have a hard time finding my way around any other text sim.

That being said, one improvement FOF can definitely have is bells and whistles in the name of immersion. I haven't played FM, but I'd love to see those kinds of mini-game features in FOF. That, more customization (including expansion), and stronger AI-team roster decision making are all FOF needs. (My fear, as has been discussed to death on this board, is that any future versions of FOF will instead just give us 10,000 more gameplan options, and 15 more stat categories per player)

Edit: But back to the original topic, I hope there is a true alternative someday, in all sports, of games that are truly fun to play - with the user making high-level decisions from the FRONT OFFICE, while everything on the field happens realistically, accurately, sensibly, etc.

One of my favorite sports video games growing up was Wayne Gretzky Hockey - it had a bizarre premise that to my knowledge, has never been repeated. You control ONE player on the hockey team (not whoever happens to have the puck). There was great immersion there - sometimes you are a part of your team scoring a goal, but sometimes you weren't. Sometimes your team won despite you, sometimes you carried them to victory. It was a unique gaming experience. It'd love to see the premise in a text sim, where I could play one role, instead of ALL of them (owner, gm, head coach, coordinators, scouts).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Wow I woke up the FOF Homers look out.

Yeah, you woke up the FOF homers on the, uh, FOFC message board.

Wonder how that happened.

[MrIllini]

You should check out www.solecismic.com

I hear that they have a nice little product being developed that might be ready for the prime time in its next 8 or 90 iterations.

[mrsimperless]

For me it's all about the immersion factor. For some the immersion factor relies on graphics. For others its the stats. I'm somewhere in the middle. I want the game to feel like a situation that is actually possible, but at the same time I don't want it to feel like work and make me lose my immersion. That is why I don't game plan in FOF, it just kills it for me for some reason.

I guess the perfect game for me would be one where I feel like I'm sitting on my couch and watching football. Beer would of course somehow also be a relevant aspect of said game..

[Icy]

As it has been said, more than the interface problem is the immersion factor problem (or lack of it).

For example:
- In FOF if you check a player card, you can see that he is disgruntled, but you have no clue why and most of the times, you don't even pay attention to it (at least me, i haven't found any problem with disgruntled players).

- In my dream's game. You get an email from player X tellnig me that he is angry because the lack of playing time, if i dont' change the situation, he may holdout out.

Then i can answer him:
1) It's not going to change so he can be put in the trade block if he desires it.

2) Ok, i promise you more playing time.Then if after X weeks things have not changed, he would get mad at me because fake promises and even his team mates loyalty would go down.

The big difference between a game and a stats analyzing work is that in the first i want fun, immersion factor, feeling like a real GM and for that, i need more stuff around the stats. If i'm working analyzing data, then i just want all the data in front of my eyes in spreadsheets without anything that can distract me.

I like FOF engine, huge amount of stats keeping, etc. But it feels dull as there is zero interaction with the fake game world. That is where Football Manager shines, immersion factor. When i play FOF, i feel exactly like playing fantasy football, i just analize stats and take decissions based on that, when i play FM, i feel i'm a football coach with its fun, problems, etc.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It is, and all text sims show their info in spreadsheet format. FOF, BBCF, FM, it's all a spreadsheet style format. Some games are just better at "hiding" the format than others.

Part of it is to make people feel like they are not looking at a spreadsheet (for the people who don't want to look at a spreadsheet, that is). Another part of it is to have portions of the game that aren't "info". For example, interacting with the media in FM. You do that through messages, choosing your response, etc. That's a part of the entire FM experience that doesn't rely on presenting the player with a lot of info. You simply see the media's message, be it a comment or a question, and sometimes you get to respond and then see the reaction to your response.

The problem with FOF, IMO, isn't so much that it presents all of its info in spreadsheets (since all text sims do, some just dress them up all nice and pretty), but it's that all there is to do in the game is look through spreadsheets. There's no "media mini-game" like in FM to take you away from it for just a few minutes. I personally don't have a problem with just viewing spreadsheets of information and then making decisions, simming a week, and then looking at more spreadsheets to make more decisions before simming another week. However, when people complain about the interface, I think the real, core problem that people have isn't really the interface, it's just that everything there is to do in FOF has you looking at a spreadhseet of info to make a decision, instead of having you read a message and then make a decision, or have you look at just one piece of info that you could dress up all nice on a screen to make a decision. (Although I'm sure there are people who just think the UI is butt ugly, but I think for most people it's that all there is to do is look at spreadsheets in the game, not that there are spreadsheets.)

Excellent Post

[Dutch]

The biggest strength of FOF is also it's biggest weakness. It's a one man show. And you think Skydog is a dictator...