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09-06-2007, 07:27 PM
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#1 | ||
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Make me an FM fan
OK, after hearing constant comments about the wonders of FM, that it will solve all of my wildest dreams, tuck me in at night, satisfy me in ways that no woman (or man) can, etc.etc, I'm seriously thinking of potentially looking into someday soon purchasing FM.
In all seriousness, can it really appeal to me as a non-soccer (Sorry, futbol) fan? I enjoy text-sims, but the only one to really keep my interest was FOF (most likely due to MP and my love of football). So, can someone in 100 words or less, tell me more about the game and why I should look to purchase it? |
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09-06-2007, 07:32 PM
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#2 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Burke, VA
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FOFC is dedicated more-or-less to the discussion of the wonderful pro football text simulation Front Office Football and it's variations and the members who frequent FOFC are the game's most ardent fans and hearty supporters. Given that, if you were to poll the members "What is your favorite text sim?" I would be shocked if less than 75% of the respondents didn't say FM/WWSM.
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09-06-2007, 07:35 PM
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#3 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
I guess it's more the curve of learning a new sport that I admittedly know very little about. Like most Americans, I get excited about soccer every four years, but don't really know much about it (other than other countries are all about it) |
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09-06-2007, 07:38 PM
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#4 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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For example, what the hell is a transfer? Is it a trade?
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09-06-2007, 07:44 PM
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#6 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New Jersey
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Quote:
I doubt 75% have even tried it on here. That being said, of those who have tried it, I would guess that well over 75% would list it as their favorite text sim. To answer the original poster's question, it is simply the most immersive text sim out there that provides arguably the best statistical accuracy of any text sim out there, and it has the best presentation of any text sim out there.
__________________
Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen. Last edited by Eaglesfan27 : 09-06-2007 at 07:47 PM. |
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09-06-2007, 07:46 PM
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#7 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New Jersey
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Quote:
Yes, although often it is a player just for money. Also, the player has a say in the transfer. He can refuse to go and kill the deal if he so chooses. The receiving team also gets to offer a new deal from scratch before the player goes. You'll find most of us FM fans on here are glad to answer any questions. When I was first getting started with FM (called CM at the time) Axxon (and a few other guys) answered a ton of my questions. |
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09-06-2007, 07:47 PM
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#8 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Eh - I adore the game, but statistical accuracy isn't really what it goes for (though its in the realm of real numbers). I think the immersion is the single-biggest thing - I've gone to bed, with nightmares about how I'm going to replace that damn RB when the board won't give me any money.  FM makes you believe you are the manager, in a way no game or experience has ever come close. |
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09-06-2007, 08:08 PM
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#9 |
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Dark Cloud
Join Date: Apr 2001
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And if you prefer American teams and cities and such, but the same immersive experience of real life playing..I created a db just for that.
If only the game was more customizable, I'd be happy. But as it is, it's pound for pound, the best of the genre.
__________________
Current dynasty: Playtesting chaos (Viperball 26) | OOTP Mod: Managerial Strategy Files | GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc | FBCB Mods on Github |
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09-06-2007, 08:18 PM
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#10 |
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General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
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Thanks SunDevil. One of the things that keeps me from getting into FM (even though I did have a dynasty that lasted a few seasons once apon a time) is that I just don't understand the tactics. Looks like I have some reading to do this weekend.
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09-06-2007, 08:28 PM
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#11 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I'll second most everything here. I'll also say that I first came into FM simply as a text sim fan who knew very little about soccer. I had no stereotypes against the sport that many Americans do, I didn't think "Soccer Sucks" or anything like that, I just didn't know a ton about it. FM had quite a learning curve for me, and I've never really gotten good at it, but it is without a doubt the best text sim I've ever played, and its actually made me more than just a "Go USA every 4 years" soccer fan.
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09-06-2007, 09:08 PM
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#12 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Cary, NC
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I have to be the contrarian here. I love soccer, but I just haven't been able to love FM, I guess it's just not the kind of game I like, there's far too much fiddly stuff to do between the games and I find the UI to be confusing and having to go back and forth between screens got old fast for me.
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09-06-2007, 09:14 PM
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#13 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I'll throw in my two cents:
1) When I first started FM, I knew virtually nothing about the game of soccer. I had ZERO idea of tactics, the transfer market or the terminology. I didn't watch it on TV and didn't pay any attention to it outside of the occasional World Cup game on TV. 2) It took me 4 different tries to "get" FM. I'd give it a shot, play it for 5 to 10 hours, wonder what all the fuss was about and give up. 3) The fourth time it just clicked. Instead of forcing my ideas on the game, I took the time to learn about the game of soccer a bit. I read guides (many of which are linked above). When I hadn't touched another game for 2 months afterward, I realized I was addicted to the game. 4) I'm now a fan of soccer. I watch the EPL on Fox Soccer Channel every Saturday and Sunday. (No, I won't be watching it over NFL action) I keep up with the real world transfer market. I know who is leading the table from most of the major countries. I even watch the under 17 World Cup. Playing FM caused me to become a fan of the sport. It's the first and only such sim that has ever done that. 5) It's the best text sim on the market. I love FOF, FBCB, BBCF, DDSB and all sorts of other text based games. None of them come close to the level of immersion of FM. I eagerly look forward to the new version every year. Simply an incredible game. |
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09-06-2007, 09:37 PM
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#14 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Early, TX
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I much prefer AM. No glitz or glamour, just Rush Limbaugh and George Noory, and sometimes Art Bell.
Actually, I don't like Rush Limbaugh. But AM is still better than FM.
__________________
Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross Last edited by Schmidty : 09-06-2007 at 09:37 PM. |
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09-06-2007, 09:44 PM
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#15 | |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Diamond Dave sucks balls? |
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09-06-2007, 10:34 PM
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#16 |
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High School JV
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Farmersville, CA
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i much prefer FM 2006 over 2007. Just can never get consistent results. In 2006 i found it much more realistic. In 2007 I could beat Chelsea 3-0 with ManU and then turn around and lose 3-0 to West Ham. I could never find a find a consistent tactic. It seems like they went in a direction where you have to tweak your tactics forever to get your players to perform well at all. I would recommend 2006 or wait and see if they make it better with 2008.
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09-06-2007, 10:49 PM
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#17 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Well, duh. Draft Day Sports Basketball. Should have been DDSPB but I missed a letter. |
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09-06-2007, 10:58 PM
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#18 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Parañaque, Philippines
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Buy FM or else Pumpy is gonna hunt you down!
__________________
Come and see. |
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09-06-2007, 11:06 PM
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#19 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
QFMFT. It took me four times also. That was 2001, and since then at least two thirds of my total gaming time has been with FM.
__________________
We have always been at war with Eastasia. |
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09-06-2007, 11:14 PM
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#20 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Parañaque, Philippines
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Seriously though,
I basically was sucked into the game when I chose one of the League One teams below the EPL. There was a drive in me to take Gillingham into EPL GLORY!
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Come and see. |
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09-06-2007, 11:22 PM
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#21 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Damn, I was much too late. But I'd just like to add that XM owns both of them.
__________________
Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks |
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09-06-2007, 11:27 PM
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#22 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Jose, CA
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I rarely even play text sims (or any games) anymore, and I'm not a soccer/footy diehard....I bought an edition of the game back when it was still Championship Manager...And if the game has continued to improve since then, then it is no doubt the best sports simulation out there. I don't think you can even see 2nd place in the rear view mirror.
__________________
Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com |
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09-07-2007, 05:42 AM
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#23 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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The main thing is the real world surrounding the sport.
Every player has a personality, they can get happy after getting nice words from his coach, happy after renewing his contract, angry if not playing when promised they would, angry if a team mate is fired, sad because the manager or media don't like him, depressed because he can't get used to a new country lifestyle or language, etc. They can make friendships/dislikes between them, towards other teams/staff, etc. There are tons of media rumors, interviews that you need to answer, you can praise or insult another coach, or your own players, etc. Of course you can and you will be praised or criticized too by other coaches or players. You fans and team GM will push you to reach your objectives, criticizing and praising your decisions. All that, plus more related stuff, make you think you are a real manager into a real world that evolves by itself around you. It's the most immersing experience that any sport sim can offer you. Of course it has soccer tactics and matches too, but where FM shines imho is in offering you the most complete experience as GM, both taking care of the in the field and off the field issues. Playing CM/FM since 1996 is the cause of why i can't get fully immersed in any other text sim. With all the respect to the other games that i love (FBCB, TCB, BBCF, DDSPB, OOTP, FOF) all them lack that immersion factor and stuff around the sport itself that FM has. Most of those developers are doing huge efforts to add that kind of stuff to their games (Gary specially is adding more and more human ratings to the players in his games), and i can only dream about those USA sports games having the same immersion factor in the future that FM has.
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09-07-2007, 06:34 AM
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#24 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mass.
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Quote:
Looks like I have 2 more times to try it before I get it Speaking from the other viewpoint (relative minority here).. I've purchased FM two different times with the intention of wanting to like it or get into it. I do alot of traveling usually, so love games that i can play in airports or in planes or in hotel rooms on my laptop. The problem I have always run into is there just is way too much going on in the game, and I know absolutely nothing about soccer. The only soccer game I ever have been to was a game I took my father in law to when he came to visit (My wife and her entire family are from Chile where soccer is huge). I ended up not knowing what tactics to use, what attributes were good for players, or even anything about strategies at all. I ended up just letting the computer handle most of it which then diminished my enjoyment of the game. My suggestion if you are similar to me and know nothing about soccer, and wanting to get into it is try to visit some of the links that were posted about tactics/etc.. maybe it will sink in better for you. To this day I still would love to enjoy it as it seems like the type of game I would enjoy.. just the wrong sport for me |
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09-07-2007, 06:48 AM
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#25 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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Quote:
Icy's comments are exactly what sets FM apart from every other text sim out there. I would say that FM is not strictly a text sim, but rather a text sim/role-playing game. And I think the rpg aspect of becoming a better manager, interacting with your players' personalities, talking to the media and potentially having personal rather than team goals (eg. starting in what might be compared to A ball and applying for the best job until you get to the majors) make FM the immersive experience that it is. As long as you're prepared to make a pretty solid investment in learning the game and are willing to put up with some frustration as you learn, that investment will definitely pay off. |
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09-07-2007, 07:18 AM
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#26 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
It was the opposite for me. I tried taking on lower level clubs or playing in lower level leagues at first. I found the game dificult and not at all fun. When I finally "got" it, I was playing as Inter. I had a crapload of money to buy players and they were players I'd heard of. (Ronaldo, Adriano, Zidane, etc.) Being able to watch those guys on the weekends helped give me a better appreciation for the game and increased my enthusiasm for FM. I always have two FM saves I alternate between. A small club that I try to move up and a big club I go for silverware. Both are enjoyable for me. (though there is no question getting a side promoted is about the biggest thrill you can have in the game) |
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09-07-2007, 07:36 AM
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#27 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Is there an aspect where I can let the AI control the majority of tactics until I get my feet wet, and I can just do some of the day-to-day media stuff?
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09-07-2007, 07:45 AM
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#28 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
One of the things I don't like about FM is the fact you can't just hire a coach and let them go to work. You can select from a group of basic tactics or d/l more advanced tactics from the web to make things easier. Even if you do that, you really need to understand what tactics your using so you know what type of signings to make. Let's say you love a tactic with 3 forwards. (like Barca in real life) If you only have 2 forwards worth a damn, your tactic is going to fail. If you like a tactic that uses three sweepers and you have three good sweepers on your roster, all it'll take is for one injury or suspension to destroy your backline. Part of the enjoyment of FM is going to come from learning the tactics and then setting them based on the team around you. (or brining in guys who fit the tactic better) Some of those links above talk about tactics and what everything means. The basics really aren't that difficult to learn. It'll take you an hour or so of reading on them to get pretty comfortable with what all of them mean. Now mastering them and creating the "perfect" tactic for your team? That'll take awhile. With all of that said, if you don't want to worry about tactics all that much, simply pick a huge, successful club. On of the big 4 from England, Barca or Real Madrid in Spain. They have so many talented players, you can do fairly well with the basic tactics and spend more of your time with signings, media announcements, etc. |
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09-07-2007, 08:55 AM
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#29 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Parañaque, Philippines
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Quote:
This is the only game where I actually FIST-PUMPED and CHEERED while Gillingham squad was holding off Chelsea 2-1 in the last two minutes of the FA Cup Final. No other game could make me cheer for my team. No Other Game.
__________________
Come and see. |
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09-07-2007, 09:17 AM
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#30 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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Does any one have a link to the guide Marc posted for FM06? That guide would still be a great help for anyone playing the game.
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09-07-2007, 09:19 AM
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#31 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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FM is definitely a combo text sim/rpg, which is definitely part of the fun. Even once you have a team churning along successfully, I find I often still have a lot of interest in my own development, or that of certain players.
Sundevil linked a lot of good help, but for my money, I'd steer a brand new player to Marc Vaughan's Hints & Tips (I even found the link!). Especially if you know little about soccer, Marc does a pretty good job of introducing the basics of the game, including what the computer can and can't do for you, and what all those attributes mean. Yes, it's helpful to know a little about soccer, the game, if only to know what, roughly, to expect from the various player positions. |
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09-07-2007, 09:20 AM
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#32 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
dola - am I fast or what?! Also, the guide I linked is for FM2007. |
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09-07-2007, 09:24 AM
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#33 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Quote:
I have just upload i for you here: http://www.prodeportes.com/fm07/FM20...s_and_tips.zip It's for 06 but most of it applies to 07, a great guide for newbies into the series.
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09-07-2007, 09:26 AM
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#34 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Dola, flere-imsaho (what kind of nick is that?
) beat me to it
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09-07-2007, 09:27 AM
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#35 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Quote:
 ), but for some reason having to do the tactics myself helped me to keep me from really getting into the game. I tried implenting what I thought were decent tactics, but the enjoyment of sims to me comes from roster management, not the game planning. (Oof, I'm starting to sound like Bucc here!)
__________________
* 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail Last edited by MIJB#19 : 09-07-2007 at 09:28 AM. |
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09-07-2007, 09:29 AM
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#36 |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
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How long does it take to play a season? I love hockey but always struggled with EHM just because it would take me forever to get through the year (due both to sim speed and having to do stuff in between games). I could play for an hour and get through a month - and that doesn't include messing around with tactics or anything. I think a full season usually ran around 5-6 hours for me. Admittedly the worst and most tedious part was scouting, which seemed to take forever.
That's why I love FOF. I can usually wrap up a full year in 2-3 hours. I love to get 15-20 years into games. The same can be said of TCB, which is why I enjoy it so much as well. I've always avoided OOTP for this same reason (although really I've never played it). I've just assumed that seasons would take forever (which is why I hate console baseball games as well). Last edited by Carman Bulldog : 09-07-2007 at 09:31 AM. |
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09-07-2007, 09:30 AM
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#37 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Going a bit off topic, do you guys think that a website dedicated to teach Americans about soccer, from basic concepts to complex tactic schemes , training drills, news, fun facts, history, etc could be interesting enough? I guess there would be some sites like that around, but probably not that much specially oriented to USA soccer fans.
The same way that you guys breath football since kids, we do soccer here in Spain, it's mainly the only sport here. I have thought about creating a website like that for some time already, seeing how the interest on soccer is growing in the US.
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Last edited by Icy : 09-07-2007 at 09:31 AM. |
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09-07-2007, 09:32 AM
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#38 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toledo - Spain
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Quote:
The soccer season is shorter than hockey (around 40 games for the domestic leagues), but with the level of detail this game has, it takes a long time, it's not like FOF or FBCB etc where you can sim a few seasons in one day.
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09-07-2007, 09:34 AM
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#39 | |
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Hattrick Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada
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in my opinion, we can't really "make you" a fan of the game. As other have said, you have to discover it by yourself and it may take a few tries. I started with CM4 and while I thought it was interesting, I felt overwhelmed. Then FM2005 came along and it was all love in the most perfect place in the world. While I've not played any subsequent version as much as I've played 05, FM remains one of my favorite games ever, simply for the immersion factor in it.
And as Neon Chaos said, there's not one other game that has made me pump fist on a goal and cheer for my team in a tight game against a higher opponent, or in a final game of the season, with promotion to the EPL on the line. I still get goosebumps thinking about some games... Quote:
dang, you wouldn't like FM. It takes me a couple of weeks to play a season at about 1-2 hours a night. Granted, I read a lot and take my time, but that's still 20+ hours... FM
__________________
A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog... |
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09-07-2007, 09:49 AM
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#40 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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I generally get through a season (from first game to last game) in about 8 hours of playtime. That doesn't include the offseason (1 or 2 months ingame) which generally is another 4 hours of playtime.
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09-07-2007, 09:50 AM
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#41 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Parañaque, Philippines
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Also...
The level of immersion you get in the game is big. I dropped the game for about two months, and when I played again, it felt like slipping into old comfy slippers. No, you can't really sim an entire season or two within a day. You can try, but that wouldn't be fun. I actually develop a fondness for the players in my team, and a disdain for opposing teams and players. Like someone said earlier, it is the ONLY game where you really feel like you're the manager of the club... not just the guy who sets lineups and sims the games.
__________________
Come and see. |
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09-07-2007, 09:53 AM
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#42 |
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General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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I started playing the series with the '05 version. I liked parts of it, but had a tough time with it just being a newbie to all the club transactions. I decided to purchase the '06 version and have become a FM geek.
I probably play slightly differently than most play. I leave all my youth team management to an assistant except for the contracts, as I love the GM part of the game. I also leave the training to my assistants as I just don't have the time to thoroughly involve myself in that. I also only use the standard formations available. I don't know enough about soccer to customize any of the strategy without likely mucking it up pretty good, but the standard formations are plentiful and still allow for a lot of changes for me. I watch every single game (at a pretty high speed) and love it. I love digging through prospects hoping to find that diamond in the rough. I love now being the USA head coach and spending 30 game years to build my national team to a perennial international powerhouse. I love that some of my old veterans who are now coaches are giving me info about upcoming opponents. I love watching that 17 year old kid I picked off the scrap heap in South America become an international superstar on my team, leading me to a triple (you'll know what that is eventually) and three straight premier division championships with Grimsby. I love that my coaching numbers now classify me as one of the legendary coaches of all time. I'm still playing the '06 version, but will likely upgrade to the '08 version this fall. I'm excited as Marc has assured me that with the upgrades in the '07 version in addition to the new upgrades in the '08 version, I'm going to see a much better experience, which is honestly hard for me to believe. |
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09-07-2007, 10:12 AM
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#43 | |
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Hattrick Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada
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Quote:
very true and to had to the cheering when your team scores and wins big games, FM is the only game where I took it personally when I got sack. I was down for a week when Luton Town sacked me the first time, really. You invest so much time learning how your players react and such that moving on to another team in this game is as close to what the real world could be, I think... FM
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A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog... |
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09-07-2007, 10:29 AM
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#44 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
That's also where you can get a lot of help here. Someone is always willing to go over attributes for specific positions, etc. I also find that the basic tactics work pretty well, and then you can make tweaks to it as you start to understand the game and your players more.
__________________
We have always been at war with Eastasia. |
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09-07-2007, 11:12 AM
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#45 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
I am not proud to say how many times I've screamed at my computer when the SOB center back is caught out of place and the opposing team scores a goal. ... |
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09-07-2007, 11:18 AM
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#46 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
I'll call that and raise you putting that SOB center back on the transfer list and permanantly benching him after his sorry performence. Sorry, I'm up 3-1, your error costs me one goal, you get an own goal to allow the tie game and then you get a straight red in extra time costing me the game? You will be gone in the next transfer window. Somehow, someway. |
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09-07-2007, 11:44 AM
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#47 |
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General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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If somebody told me that they had lost their wife and job because they couldn't stop playing FM, I would totally understand.
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09-07-2007, 11:48 AM
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#48 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Heh - I criticize them in the press, and I wish there was a team talk option that says "you sorry son of a bitch, I would ship your ass to China if anyone there would take you." |
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09-07-2007, 11:49 AM
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#49 |
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Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Chicago, Ill
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Just reading through this thread is making me want to go back to my FM game, but unfortunatly I lost it on my migration to my new laptop and am just waiting for '08 to be released
__________________
Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? |
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09-07-2007, 11:59 AM
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#50 |
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Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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I could never get into it. I don't think I had the patience to truly learn the important skills for each position and the necessary types of formations to use
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