McNabb doesn't get it.

Deattribution · 09-18-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

African-American quarterbacks face more pressure and more criticism than their white counterparts, Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb says in an interview scheduled to air on HBO on Tuesday night.

McNabb, in an interview on "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," tells interviewer James Brown that African-American quarterbacks such as himself face added pressure because there are fewer black QBs -- and because some still don't want black athletes playing the position.

"There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb tells HBO. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play ... is low, so we do a little extra."

Later in the interview, Brown presses McNabb on criticism of his performance -- and if African-American QBs are graded more harshly.

"I pass for 300 yards, our team wins by seven, [mimicking] 'Ah, he could've made this throw, they would have scored if he did this,' " McNabb tells HBO.

"Doesn't every quarterback go through that?" Brown asks.

"Not everybody," McNabb replies.

Brown then asks if the media is tougher on him than on white quarterbacks such as Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.

"Let me start by saying I love those guys," McNabb tells HBO. "But they don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."

In the interview, McNabb also talks to Brown about playing in Philadelphia, a city known for passionate sports fans who aren't afraid to criticize the city's pro athletes.

"Every year I'm part of some criticism," McNabb tells HBO. "But every day that we go through life, you're faced with a lot of adversity. Now the answer is how do you handle the adversity. How do you respond?

"I try to handle myself with class. I try to handle myself with dignity. I think sometimes people look to players to act out, speak loudly, pretty much be an idiot. But that's not me."

This guy never learns - I highlighted the above cause he says that's not him while doing exactly that. He thinks that is why there is additional pressure on him? It's because he hasn't preformed - the guy has had 60%+ pass completions ONCE in his entire career and that year he was hailed as an MVP canidate. Before that year, he was average at best - and he's never had his position (whether he should be the QB) seriously questioned until last year.

He doesn't get it, and I don't think he ever will. Him and his parents are always creating some kind of fuss with the media to top it off. The situation he's in he has created for himself (injuries aside) it has nothing to do with his race.

spleen1015 · 09-18-2007, 01:14 PM

Blah-blah-blah.

I wonder if there will ever be a day when this excuse is no longer there to fall back on.

larrymcg421 · 09-18-2007, 01:25 PM

Not sure I buy the race issue, but any Eagles fan that looks at their team and thinks McNabb is the problem deserves the years of futility they can endure when they eventually replace him with some hack QB.

Klinglerware · 09-18-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not sure I buy the race issue, but any Eagles fan that looks at their team and thinks McNabb is the problem deserves the years of futility they can endure when they eventually replace him with some hack QB.

Agreed. McNabb seems to work reasonably well with what he has...

Pumpy Tudors · 09-18-2007, 01:32 PM

I have learned one thing from all of this. Joey Harrington is black.

BrianD · 09-18-2007, 01:35 PM

I don't know that trying to equate McNabb to Manning and Palmer is a fair comparison. Manning and Palmer are top QBs surrounded by fantastic talent and putting up great numbers.

McNabb is almost more like Favre (or Favre from a few years ago). A very good QB surrounded by questionable talent who achieves a mixture of good and bad. I'm not sure that McNabb gets any more criticism than Favre does...at least as far as current play and skill goes.

ISiddiqui · 09-18-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not sure I buy the race issue, but any Eagles fan that looks at their team and thinks McNabb is the problem deserves the years of futility they can endure when they eventually replace him with some hack QB.

Also, remember that McNabb was subject to the comments by Rush Limbaugh and I think that has massive influences on this statement by him.

molson · 09-18-2007, 01:44 PM

Aren't there like, a lot of black QBs now?

McNabb sounds like he wants to be Doug Williams, but he's about 20 years too late.

MIJB#19 · 09-18-2007, 01:53 PM

I wonder, is this all part of the Terrell Owens breakup aftermath?

Pumpy Tudors · 09-18-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Aren't there like, a lot of black QBs now?

Yeah, but until a couple of weeks ago, they were all playing for Jacksonville.

Honolulu_Blue · 09-18-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I have learned one thing from all of this. Joey Harrington is black.

Rex Grossman too apparently.

molson · 09-18-2007, 01:56 PM

The McNabb/Philly thing ain't gonna end well.

larrymcg421 · 09-18-2007, 01:57 PM

Both Harrington and Grossman are bad examples, considering that they actually do suck and thus get the correct level of criticism.

Honolulu_Blue · 09-18-2007, 01:58 PM

The PFT guys had a good take on this:

Nearly four years ago (has it been that long?), Rush Limbaugh sparked a tape-delayed firestorm by commenting on race from his "Voice of the Fan" perch on ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown. "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,'' Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in [Eagles quarterback Donovan] McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

There was no immediate reaction to the comments, but once the media focused on them the story mushroomed into a full-blown brouhaha that prompted Limbaugh to resign before the next show.
Said McNabb at the time: "It's sad that you've got to go to skin color. I thought we were through with that whole deal."

Apparently, we're not. (Especially in light of the fact that McNabb referred to receiver Kevin Curtis as "White Lightning" while introducing the team's starting offense on Monday night.)

McNabb now says that African-American quarterbacks are under extra pressure to succeed. "There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb said in an HBO Real Sports interview that will air on Tuesday night. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play . . . is low, so we do a little extra."

Asked whether white quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer are criticized by the media as much as their black counterparts, McNabb said, "They don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."

Donovan, are you talking about the same media that recognized the significance of Limbaugh's words and pushed the story that wasn't a story until the media made it one?

Currently, there are only six starting quarterbacks in the NFL who are African-American: Steve McNair of the Ravens, David Garrard of the Jaguars, Vince Young of the Titans, Jason Campbell of the Redskins, Tarvaris Jackson of the Vikings, and McNabb. (Daunte Culpepper of the Raiders could soon be No. 7; if he isn't JaMarcus Russell eventually will be.)
With six out of 32, that's less than 20 percent of the total starting quarterback jobs. So McNabb is right -- the percentage is low.

But are black quarterbacks criticized more heavily because of race?

Or are quarterbacks criticized based only on their performances? Rex Grossman of the Bears is white, and he's currently one of the most heavily-criticized quarterbacks in the game. Chad Pennington of the Jets suffered a lower leg injury in Week One, and the Meadowlands crowd erupted in cheers.

In contrast, Peyton Manning and Steve McNair were named co-MVPs of the NFL in 2003, as the result of a vote conducted by the media.
So we don't buy Donovan's contention, and we think that he's indirectly hoping to stave off the looming decision of his team to part ways with him and to give the ball to Kevin Kolb, who is white. Or, alternatively, McNabb wants to be able to blame his eventual demotion/departure not on skills and abilities, but on skin color.

But if McNabb truly believes that black quarterbacks endure more criticism, he needs to do more than throw around accusations based on his own feelings. He needs facts.

Otherwise, his words are no different than Limbaugh's.

stevew · 09-18-2007, 01:58 PM

I'm sure the people of Atlanta will love McNabb next season when he's their new starting QB.

Pumpy Tudors · 09-18-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Both Harrington and Grossman are bad examples, considering that they actually do suck and thus get the correct level of criticism.

You're only saying that because they're black.

sabotai · 09-18-2007, 02:20 PM

McNabb is playing the race card. There's a shock.

Bonegavel · 09-18-2007, 02:46 PM

Donnie shows flashes of brilliance (he can scramble out of pressure like few others) but he is inaccurate and loves to throw at the receiver's feet when he isn't throwing behind them. Also, he always seems to be winded. I forgave these in the first few years of his career, but these should be far behind him and they aren't.

Has nothing to do with his color. He sucks about 70% of the time. Period.

Young Drachma · 09-18-2007, 02:51 PM

Having good recievers would help. But yeah, he needs to stop whining or should've asked for a trade to Chicago by now.

Young Drachma · 09-18-2007, 02:54 PM

It seems to me that the black quarterback stigma is over. I think the only difference is, they're relying a lot more on their athleticism as youngsters and it carries on to college and so, a lot of starters I see don't have the technique that you'd otherwise see. So the crutch to me isn't so much about an unwillingness to have a black quarterback, as much as it's finding a guy who is a quarterback first and thinks like one.

So it probably starts at the lower levels, like so many other things. Old habits die hard.

Atocep · 09-18-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It seems to me that the black quarterback stigma is over. I think the only difference is, they're relying a lot more on their athleticism as youngsters and it carries on to college and so, a lot of starters I see don't have the technique that you'd otherwise see. So the crutch to me isn't so much about an unwillingness to have a black quarterback, as much as it's finding a guy who is a quarterback first and thinks like one.

So it probably starts at the lower levels, like so many other things. Old habits die hard.

Absolutely spot on.

Klinglerware · 09-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It seems to me that the black quarterback stigma is over. I think the only difference is, they're relying a lot more on their athleticism as youngsters and it carries on to college and so, a lot of starters I see don't have the technique that you'd otherwise see. So the crutch to me isn't so much about an unwillingness to have a black quarterback, as much as it's finding a guy who is a quarterback first and thinks like one.

So it probably starts at the lower levels, like so many other things. Old habits die hard.

And sometimes it continues on into the NFL. Among the many knocks on Buddy Ryan was that he retarded Randall Cunningham's development as an NFL quarterback. Buddy and his coaching staff seemed to be just content to let Randall "make things happen" with his running ability, much to Cunningham's detriment...

Young Drachma · 09-18-2007, 03:14 PM

Oh, I think that's the problem in the NFL. It's kinda late at that point to train a kid to do what he should've learned years earlier. So it's way too late by then and so..it retards their development and as a result, they stink.

It's why Warren Moon was such a great QB. He truly was one that was penalized because of that old stigma, so he went to Canada proved himself and then got an opportunity. And Randall came back those years with the Vikings and stopped running around as much since he was older, so clearly he must've learned something.

But I just think that the whole "black" quarterback thing has been simmering for a while, but having watched as much college football as I have in recent years, I think it's pretty obvious that you have college coaches trying to win ballgames, so they let these kids get on the field and be gunslinging cowboy types...and then it works in college and these guys get mad when it doesn't work in the NFL.

That's not McNabb's problem. He's a decent QB and all and he had a great season. But let's not get carried away acting like he's "proven" himself when it's been proven in recent years that it doesn't take a "great" quarterback to win a championship.

His leadership abilty is suspect to me and while he's been great for that team and all that, it seems pretty clear to me that defaulting to the race card, is just setting the trail for his exodus out of town under the guise of "they never liked me here. They hate me."

And I'm sure the millions that you line your bed with at night can cushion the pain it gives you...and if not, oh well. He's not the first athlete to be hated or constantly maligned. Buck up.

Logan · 09-18-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Asked whether white quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer are criticized by the media as much as their black counterparts, McNabb said, "They don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."

Really Donovan? Where were you for the 8 years prior to January 2007? Manning was a constant choker, could never win a big game, put up numbers and that's it, wasn't a leader, etc. We knew Manning sucked because TEE MARTIN took his team that he choked with and won a national championship with him.

Typical revisionist shit.

MikeVic · 09-18-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Really Donovan? Where were you for the 8 years prior to January 2007? Manning was a constant choker, could never win a big game, put up numbers and that's it, wasn't a leader, etc. We knew Manning sucked because TEE MARTIN took his team that he choked with and won a national championship with him.

Typical revisionist shit.

Wait what? I hold a special place in my heart for Tee Martin. What did he do?

st.cronin · 09-18-2007, 04:15 PM

Donovan McNabb has no idea the kinds of pressures that white quarterbacks have to deal with.

Groundhog · 09-18-2007, 05:36 PM

I didn't see any white QBs throwing passes 30 feet over the heads of WRs in the Eagles-Redskins game last night... just sayin'...

Eaglesfan27 · 09-18-2007, 06:37 PM

As I said in the other thread, for his play, McNabb completely deserves patience this year as he is coming back early from an injury that would still have most QB's sidelined and it takes 2 years to really get back to form. However, from what I've read today, some of his statements seem very poorly worded and timed, but I look forward to watching the interview to see the context.

Groundhog · 09-18-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

As I said in the other thread, for his play, McNabb completely deserves patience this year as he is coming back early from an injury that would still have most QB's sidelined and it takes 2 years to really get back to form. However, from what I've read today, some of his statements seem very poorly worded and timed, but I look forward to watching the interview to see the context.

Yeah, I agree that he deserves some patience considering the success he's had. But in the real world he's not going to get it because fans are always harsh on their star when they don't perform. Charles Barkley made some decent points on this amongst his largely otherwise unintelligable ramblings during the Skins-Eagles game. It has a lot less to do with race than it does with impatient Phili fans IMO.

I think if any QB came back form injury and was throwing inaccurate rocket passes like McNabb was yesterday, fans wouldn't be too happy about it.

molson · 09-18-2007, 06:57 PM

It doesn't sound like the interview is specifically dealing with the boos after the week 2 game (was the interview even taped after that?), McNabb's points instead sound very general. This isn't about McNabb's injury, or the patience of the Philly fans.

The media has been very kind to him throughout his career, even though there's been plenty to criticize.

It's crap. It's Sharpton-type move that discourages people from criticizing him.

Cringer · 09-18-2007, 08:02 PM

That comparison to Favre is a good one. He is a guy who is an MVPx3, future hall of famer, and a record holder in a few areas. The last couple years though all you hear about is how he sucks and throws a million INTs. Now, even playing pretty well with 7 guys who have only had 1 or 2 NFL starts ever, he still gets crap for INTs because people are just waiting for that 3 INT game.

sterlingice · 09-18-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It's why Warren Moon was such a great QB. He truly was one that was penalized because of that old stigma, so he went to Canada proved himself and then got an opportunity. And Randall came back those years with the Vikings and stopped running around as much since he was older, so clearly he must've learned something.

Warren Moon is a football god. That is all

SI

EagleFan · 09-19-2007, 12:37 AM

Deattribution loses any potential credibility as soon as he claims McNabb was average at best other than one season...

McNabb is a little bit thin skinned for being in Philly as he is treated no worse than Jaws was, especially after Cunningham was drafted and people were waiting to see the next QB instead of him. Last I checked Jaws was white and got nothing even close to a free pass.

Good or bad, that's being a Philly sports fan. It gets on my nerves to hear idiotic criticism (like complaining about McNabb throwing low too much- all QB's throw bad passes and of the two options for throwing bad passes, throwing short into the ground is much better than overthrowing as the chance of an interception goes up greatly at that point).

Look at the crap receivers that McNabb has been given throughout his career (other than the asshole one). Most of these receivers would not make a 3rd receiver spot on good teams. Their management chose to pursue Curtis instead of Stallworth and look what going for the cheap price is getting them.

Add Ried's arrogance and unwillingness to learn and this could be bad, very bad. Come on Andy, remember last season when Garcia was at QB and you actually ran more than passing. Now without the receivers that can actually get open, or catch, he goes back to throwing 2/3s of the time.

Thankfully the Phillies are giving me something fun to watch for hopefully more than the next week and a half (there must be some tightly clinched ass cheeks among the Mets fans right about now

). It was fun listening to a little NY sports talk radio and hearing more Mets fans worrying about how the Padres could keep the Phillies out of the Wild Card instead talking about the Mets.

Deattribution · 09-19-2007, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Deattribution loses any potential credibility as soon as he claims McNabb was average at best other than one season...

You're right, average at best was too much credit

I'm sure somewhere in there while you were complaining about the team around him McNabb is flashing back to when Garcia was completing 62% of his passes (better than everything McNabb has done short of one year) looking like a Pro Bowler and leading his team of crappy receivers and crappy coaches to the playoffs. He was great for a season (thanks T.O), and the rest - he was average but not heroically succeeding despite the team around him. You can blame it on everyone else, it works out great - look at Joey Harrington, it did wonders for him.

stevew · 09-19-2007, 01:12 AM

McNabb's like 15% better than Kordell Stewart.

EagleFan · 09-19-2007, 01:22 AM

Are you that thick? You attribute only completion percentage to a QB's talent?

Let's talk about the game plan that was changed because of McNabb being out. Let's talk about the sudden run first philosphy given to the team when Garcia was leading them. Let's talk about the game plan which was (don;t let Garcia cost us the game). Would you like to put McNabb's numbers from last year up against Garcia's? If you say Garcia's numbers are pro bowl caliber than McNabb's obviously are.

McNabb 2006:
10 games
2647 yards (264.7 ypg)
18 TD
6 int
212 yard rushing
3 rushing TD's
95.5 rating
3 fumbles

Garcia 2006:
6 games started
1306 yards (216.7 ypg)
10 TD
2 int
95.8 rating
87 yards rushing
0 rushing TD's
6 fumbles

But I guess you only care about completion percentage...

johnnyshaka · 09-19-2007, 02:08 AM

McNabb has never been surrounded with the casts that Manning and Palmer have had the luxury to play with. Harrison, Wayne, Johnson, and Housh would be number one receivers on any team...Manning and Palmer have the luxury of having two studs to throw to. McNabb had T.O. for a season and was phenominal...give him a Steve Smith on the other side of T.O. and he could be off the charts. Or, better yet, replace Harrison, Wayne, Johnson, and Housh with Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, and Greg Lewis and I doubt you'd be hearing much about the likes of Manning or Palmer.

larrymcg421 · 09-19-2007, 07:25 AM

Hmm, an average QB. So I guess the Eagles just managed to be this good for so long (4 straight NFC Championships, Superbowl appearance) because of that great WR corps or that consistent running attack? Shit, that must have been one hell of a defense.

Raiders Army · 09-19-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Donnie shows flashes of brilliance (he can scramble out of pressure like few others) but he is inaccurate and loves to throw at the receiver's feet when he isn't throwing behind them. Also, he always seems to be winded. I forgave these in the first few years of his career, but these should be far behind him and they aren't.

Has nothing to do with his color. He sucks about 70% of the time. Period.

I agree completely. McNabb go get me a cheesesteak!

larrymcg421 · 09-19-2007, 07:43 AM

Can everyone calm the fuck down? It's only been 2 weeks. Matt Schaub isn't the next Brett Favre and Donovan McNabb isn't over the hill.

Last year at this point, David Carr had the following numbers:

75.4% completions
8.1 Y/A
4 TD's
0 INT
120 QB Rating

ISiddiqui · 09-19-2007, 08:17 AM

You know as well as I that overreaction after Week 2 of the NFL season is guarenteed, year after year after year.

Pumpy Tudors · 09-19-2007, 08:25 AM

I AM NOT OVERREACTING! AFTER ONLY TWO WEEKS, I CAN TELL THAT DAVID CARR'S GLOVES ARE SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY BAD.

astrosfan64 · 09-19-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Not sure I buy the race issue, but any Eagles fan that looks at their team and thinks McNabb is the problem deserves the years of futility they can endure when they eventually replace him with some hack QB.

Well hold on a second.

Last year, McNabb goes down with an injury. Then Jeff mighty might Garcia comes on and plays great with those same players McNabb couldn't do anything with. Then he comes out this year and isn't looking to sharp.

I think McNabb is a good QB. Has been for his entire career. But, over the last two seasons he has been average at best.

Pumpy Tudors · 09-19-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Well hold on a second.

Last year, McNabb goes down with an injury. Then Jeff mighty might Garcia comes on and plays great with those same players McNabb couldn't do anything with. Then he comes out this year and isn't looking to sharp.

I think McNabb is a good QB. Has been for his entire career. But, over the last two seasons he has been average at best.

Is Donovan McNabb overrated?

larrymcg421 · 09-19-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Well hold on a second.

Last year, McNabb goes down with an injury. Then Jeff mighty might Garcia comes on and plays great with those same players McNabb couldn't do anything with. Then he comes out this year and isn't looking to sharp.

Jeff mighty Garcia is looking pretty good this season with the Bucs, isn't he? Also, if you look at the numbers Eaglefan posted, it looks like McNabb did pretty good with the same players.

Quote:

I think McNabb is a good QB. Has been for his entire career. But, over the last two seasons he has been average at best.

Well, that's more reserved than some other insanity in this thread (bad 70% of the time, et al), but still it's a stretch to he's been average over two seasons.

It's more like he's been below average in two games this year and was pretty good last year. It's really quite a stretch to call a 95.5 QB rating "average".

Klinglerware · 09-19-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

As I said in the other thread, for his play, McNabb completely deserves patience this year as he is coming back early from an injury that would still have most QB's sidelined and it takes 2 years to really get back to form.

Yeah, I think the Eagles management messed this one up. By not re-signing Garcia (and continuing their love affair with A.J. Feeley), Reid and Lurie were taking a huge gamble by throwing McNabb back in there long before most other quarterbacks with that injury would be ready. Maybe it will still work out, but it does look like the injury is still affecting McNabb.

Aren't the Eagles still way under the cap? If they are, it boggles my mind that the Eagles would not want to sign a backup who could have legitimately stepped in if McNabb wasn't truly ready. It didn't even have to be Garcia, there were a couple others available coming into the season...

astrosfan64 · 09-19-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Is Donovan McNabb overrated?

No, sorry I can't go there.

He is a good QB.

astrosfan64 · 09-19-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Are you that thick? You attribute only completion percentage to a QB's talent?

Let's talk about the game plan that was changed because of McNabb being out. Let's talk about the sudden run first philosphy given to the team when Garcia was leading them. Let's talk about the game plan which was (don;t let Garcia cost us the game). Would you like to put McNabb's numbers from last year up against Garcia's? If you say Garcia's numbers are pro bowl caliber than McNabb's obviously are.

McNabb 2006:
10 games
2647 yards (264.7 ypg)
18 TD
6 int
212 yard rushing
3 rushing TD's
95.5 rating
3 fumbles

Garcia 2006:
6 games started
1306 yards (216.7 ypg)
10 TD
2 int
95.8 rating
87 yards rushing
0 rushing TD's
6 fumbles

But I guess you only care about completion percentage...

I care about wins and losses.

molson · 09-19-2007, 09:06 AM

After watching McNabb for 4 years in college, he always just seemed really, really slow to me in the NFL. Obviously, part of that is everyone around him is way faster in the NFL, but he seems to have abandoned (or is no longer able to perform) that part of his game that made him so dangerous.

And I'm not talking about the last 2 weeks, I'm talking about the last 5 or 6 years. He's been a mobile QB, but not one who's legs are as dangerous as his arm. The way he was talking earlier in his career, it sounded like this was intentional, and something of a political/racial statement (he didn't want to be known as a "running QB" because he was black).

Take a way the legs and he's probably still above average, but just barely, and far from an elite QBs in the league.

larrymcg421 · 09-19-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

I care about wins and losses.

So you're pushing for the Eagles to sign Kyle Orton then? Hope you guys can get him!

09-18-2007, 01:25 PM	#3
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Not sure I buy the race issue, but any Eagles fan that looks at their team and thinks McNabb is the problem deserves the years of futility they can endure when they eventually replace him with some hack QB. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

09-18-2007, 01:32 PM	#5
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I have learned one thing from all of this. Joey Harrington is black. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

09-18-2007, 01:53 PM	#9
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	I wonder, is this all part of the Terrell Owens breakup aftermath? __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

09-18-2007, 01:57 PM	#13
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Both Harrington and Grossman are bad examples, considering that they actually do suck and thus get the correct level of criticism. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner Last edited by larrymcg421 : 09-18-2007 at 01:57 PM.

09-18-2007, 01:58 PM	#14
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	The PFT guys had a good take on this: Nearly four years ago (has it been that long?), Rush Limbaugh sparked a tape-delayed firestorm by commenting on race from his "Voice of the Fan" perch on ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown. "I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,'' Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in [Eagles quarterback Donovan] McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team." There was no immediate reaction to the comments, but once the media focused on them the story mushroomed into a full-blown brouhaha that prompted Limbaugh to resign before the next show. Said McNabb at the time: "It's sad that you've got to go to skin color. I thought we were through with that whole deal." Apparently, we're not. (Especially in light of the fact that McNabb referred to receiver Kevin Curtis as "White Lightning" while introducing the team's starting offense on Monday night.) McNabb now says that African-American quarterbacks are under extra pressure to succeed. "There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb said in an HBO Real Sports interview that will air on Tuesday night. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play . . . is low, so we do a little extra." Asked whether white quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer are criticized by the media as much as their black counterparts, McNabb said, "They don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't." Donovan, are you talking about the same media that recognized the significance of Limbaugh's words and pushed the story that wasn't a story until the media made it one? Currently, there are only six starting quarterbacks in the NFL who are African-American: Steve McNair of the Ravens, David Garrard of the Jaguars, Vince Young of the Titans, Jason Campbell of the Redskins, Tarvaris Jackson of the Vikings, and McNabb. (Daunte Culpepper of the Raiders could soon be No. 7; if he isn't JaMarcus Russell eventually will be.) With six out of 32, that's less than 20 percent of the total starting quarterback jobs. So McNabb is right -- the percentage is low. But are black quarterbacks criticized more heavily because of race? Or are quarterbacks criticized based only on their performances? Rex Grossman of the Bears is white, and he's currently one of the most heavily-criticized quarterbacks in the game. Chad Pennington of the Jets suffered a lower leg injury in Week One, and the Meadowlands crowd erupted in cheers. In contrast, Peyton Manning and Steve McNair were named co-MVPs of the NFL in 2003, as the result of a vote conducted by the media. So we don't buy Donovan's contention, and we think that he's indirectly hoping to stave off the looming decision of his team to part ways with him and to give the ball to Kevin Kolb, who is white. Or, alternatively, McNabb wants to be able to blame his eventual demotion/departure not on skills and abilities, but on skin color. But if McNabb truly believes that black quarterbacks endure more criticism, he needs to do more than throw around accusations based on his own feelings. He needs facts. Otherwise, his words are no different than Limbaugh's. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

09-18-2007, 01:14 PM	#2
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Blah-blah-blah. I wonder if there will ever be a day when this excuse is no longer there to fall back on.

09-18-2007, 01:35 PM	#6
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I don't know that trying to equate McNabb to Manning and Palmer is a fair comparison. Manning and Palmer are top QBs surrounded by fantastic talent and putting up great numbers. McNabb is almost more like Favre (or Favre from a few years ago). A very good QB surrounded by questionable talent who achieves a mixture of good and bad. I'm not sure that McNabb gets any more criticism than Favre does...at least as far as current play and skill goes.

09-18-2007, 01:44 PM	#8
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Aren't there like, a lot of black QBs now? McNabb sounds like he wants to be Doug Williams, but he's about 20 years too late.

09-18-2007, 01:56 PM	#12
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	The McNabb/Philly thing ain't gonna end well.

09-18-2007, 01:58 PM	#15
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I'm sure the people of Atlanta will love McNabb next season when he's their new starting QB.

09-18-2007, 02:20 PM	#17
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	McNabb is playing the race card. There's a shock.

09-18-2007, 02:46 PM	#18
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	Donnie shows flashes of brilliance (he can scramble out of pressure like few others) but he is inaccurate and loves to throw at the receiver's feet when he isn't throwing behind them. Also, he always seems to be winded. I forgave these in the first few years of his career, but these should be far behind him and they aren't. Has nothing to do with his color. He sucks about 70% of the time. Period. __________________

09-18-2007, 02:51 PM	#19
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Having good recievers would help. But yeah, he needs to stop whining or should've asked for a trade to Chicago by now. __________________ Current dynasty: Playtesting chaos (Viperball 26) \| OOTP Mod: Managerial Strategy Files \| GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

09-18-2007, 02:54 PM	#20
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	It seems to me that the black quarterback stigma is over. I think the only difference is, they're relying a lot more on their athleticism as youngsters and it carries on to college and so, a lot of starters I see don't have the technique that you'd otherwise see. So the crutch to me isn't so much about an unwillingness to have a black quarterback, as much as it's finding a guy who is a quarterback first and thinks like one. So it probably starts at the lower levels, like so many other things. Old habits die hard.

09-18-2007, 03:14 PM	#23
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Oh, I think that's the problem in the NFL. It's kinda late at that point to train a kid to do what he should've learned years earlier. So it's way too late by then and so..it retards their development and as a result, they stink. It's why Warren Moon was such a great QB. He truly was one that was penalized because of that old stigma, so he went to Canada proved himself and then got an opportunity. And Randall came back those years with the Vikings and stopped running around as much since he was older, so clearly he must've learned something. But I just think that the whole "black" quarterback thing has been simmering for a while, but having watched as much college football as I have in recent years, I think it's pretty obvious that you have college coaches trying to win ballgames, so they let these kids get on the field and be gunslinging cowboy types...and then it works in college and these guys get mad when it doesn't work in the NFL. That's not McNabb's problem. He's a decent QB and all and he had a great season. But let's not get carried away acting like he's "proven" himself when it's been proven in recent years that it doesn't take a "great" quarterback to win a championship. His leadership abilty is suspect to me and while he's been great for that team and all that, it seems pretty clear to me that defaulting to the race card, is just setting the trail for his exodus out of town under the guise of "they never liked me here. They hate me." And I'm sure the millions that you line your bed with at night can cushion the pain it gives you...and if not, oh well. He's not the first athlete to be hated or constantly maligned. Buck up. __________________ Current dynasty: Playtesting chaos (Viperball 26) \| OOTP Mod: Managerial Strategy Files \| GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

09-18-2007, 04:15 PM	#26
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Donovan McNabb has no idea the kinds of pressures that white quarterbacks have to deal with. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-18-2007, 05:36 PM	#27
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	I didn't see any white QBs throwing passes 30 feet over the heads of WRs in the Eagles-Redskins game last night... just sayin'... __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

09-18-2007, 06:37 PM	#28
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	As I said in the other thread, for his play, McNabb completely deserves patience this year as he is coming back early from an injury that would still have most QB's sidelined and it takes 2 years to really get back to form. However, from what I've read today, some of his statements seem very poorly worded and timed, but I look forward to watching the interview to see the context. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

09-18-2007, 06:57 PM	#30
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	It doesn't sound like the interview is specifically dealing with the boos after the week 2 game (was the interview even taped after that?), McNabb's points instead sound very general. This isn't about McNabb's injury, or the patience of the Philly fans. The media has been very kind to him throughout his career, even though there's been plenty to criticize. It's crap. It's Sharpton-type move that discourages people from criticizing him. Last edited by molson : 09-18-2007 at 07:01 PM.

09-18-2007, 08:02 PM	#31
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	That comparison to Favre is a good one. He is a guy who is an MVPx3, future hall of famer, and a record holder in a few areas. The last couple years though all you hear about is how he sucks and throws a million INTs. Now, even playing pretty well with 7 guys who have only had 1 or 2 NFL starts ever, he still gets crap for INTs because people are just waiting for that 3 INT game. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

09-19-2007, 12:37 AM	#33
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Deattribution loses any potential credibility as soon as he claims McNabb was average at best other than one season... McNabb is a little bit thin skinned for being in Philly as he is treated no worse than Jaws was, especially after Cunningham was drafted and people were waiting to see the next QB instead of him. Last I checked Jaws was white and got nothing even close to a free pass. Good or bad, that's being a Philly sports fan. It gets on my nerves to hear idiotic criticism (like complaining about McNabb throwing low too much- all QB's throw bad passes and of the two options for throwing bad passes, throwing short into the ground is much better than overthrowing as the chance of an interception goes up greatly at that point). Look at the crap receivers that McNabb has been given throughout his career (other than the asshole one). Most of these receivers would not make a 3rd receiver spot on good teams. Their management chose to pursue Curtis instead of Stallworth and look what going for the cheap price is getting them. Add Ried's arrogance and unwillingness to learn and this could be bad, very bad. Come on Andy, remember last season when Garcia was at QB and you actually ran more than passing. Now without the receivers that can actually get open, or catch, he goes back to throwing 2/3s of the time. Thankfully the Phillies are giving me something fun to watch for hopefully more than the next week and a half (there must be some tightly clinched ass cheeks among the Mets fans right about now ). It was fun listening to a little NY sports talk radio and hearing more Mets fans worrying about how the Padres could keep the Phillies out of the Wild Card instead talking about the Mets.

09-19-2007, 01:12 AM	#35
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	McNabb's like 15% better than Kordell Stewart.

09-19-2007, 01:22 AM	#36
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Are you that thick? You attribute only completion percentage to a QB's talent? Let's talk about the game plan that was changed because of McNabb being out. Let's talk about the sudden run first philosphy given to the team when Garcia was leading them. Let's talk about the game plan which was (don;t let Garcia cost us the game). Would you like to put McNabb's numbers from last year up against Garcia's? If you say Garcia's numbers are pro bowl caliber than McNabb's obviously are. McNabb 2006: 10 games 2647 yards (264.7 ypg) 18 TD 6 int 212 yard rushing 3 rushing TD's 95.5 rating 3 fumbles Garcia 2006: 6 games started 1306 yards (216.7 ypg) 10 TD 2 int 95.8 rating 87 yards rushing 0 rushing TD's 6 fumbles But I guess you only care about completion percentage...

09-19-2007, 02:08 AM	#37
johnnyshaka College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB	McNabb has never been surrounded with the casts that Manning and Palmer have had the luxury to play with. Harrison, Wayne, Johnson, and Housh would be number one receivers on any team...Manning and Palmer have the luxury of having two studs to throw to. McNabb had T.O. for a season and was phenominal...give him a Steve Smith on the other side of T.O. and he could be off the charts. Or, better yet, replace Harrison, Wayne, Johnson, and Housh with Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, and Greg Lewis and I doubt you'd be hearing much about the likes of Manning or Palmer. Last edited by johnnyshaka : 09-19-2007 at 02:09 AM.

09-19-2007, 07:25 AM	#38
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Hmm, an average QB. So I guess the Eagles just managed to be this good for so long (4 straight NFC Championships, Superbowl appearance) because of that great WR corps or that consistent running attack? Shit, that must have been one hell of a defense. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

09-19-2007, 07:43 AM	#40
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Can everyone calm the fuck down? It's only been 2 weeks. Matt Schaub isn't the next Brett Favre and Donovan McNabb isn't over the hill. Last year at this point, David Carr had the following numbers: 75.4% completions 8.1 Y/A 4 TD's 0 INT 120 QB Rating __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

09-19-2007, 08:17 AM	#41
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	You know as well as I that overreaction after Week 2 of the NFL season is guarenteed, year after year after year. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

09-19-2007, 08:25 AM	#42
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I AM NOT OVERREACTING! AFTER ONLY TWO WEEKS, I CAN TELL THAT DAVID CARR'S GLOVES ARE SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY BAD. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

09-19-2007, 09:06 AM	#49
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	After watching McNabb for 4 years in college, he always just seemed really, really slow to me in the NFL. Obviously, part of that is everyone around him is way faster in the NFL, but he seems to have abandoned (or is no longer able to perform) that part of his game that made him so dangerous. And I'm not talking about the last 2 weeks, I'm talking about the last 5 or 6 years. He's been a mobile QB, but not one who's legs are as dangerous as his arm. The way he was talking earlier in his career, it sounded like this was intentional, and something of a political/racial statement (he didn't want to be known as a "running QB" because he was black). Take a way the legs and he's probably still above average, but just barely, and far from an elite QBs in the league. Last edited by molson : 09-19-2007 at 09:09 AM.

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