Losman got lucky

stevew · 09-25-2007, 10:39 PM

I'm usually a big "let them play" type of guy, but since this is the Patriots* doing it, I figure I'll just go ahead an point it out. Losman could have easily tore his knee up badly on this cheapshot.

Atocep · 09-25-2007, 10:42 PM

Every team does it. Not a big deal.

EagleFan · 09-25-2007, 10:43 PM

Fine?

stevew · 09-25-2007, 10:45 PM

I would freaking hope so. I mean JP sucks bad enough on his own, he shouldn't have to come back from a major knee reconstruction.

Quote:

Bills | Losman's agent says Wilfork should be fined
Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:55:59 -0700

Rodney McKissic, of the Buffalo News, reports the agent for Buffalo Bills QB J.P. Losman, Gary Wichard, said New England Patriots DL Vince Wilfork should be fined for the hit he delivered to Losman in Week 3. "To me, the guy shot his elbow out directly at J.P.'s knee," Wichard said. "(Wilfork) was looking straight at him. This guy wasn't tumbling over and falling into the quarterback, like Kimo von Oelhoffen did to Carson Palmer a couple years ago. J.P. is very lucky that wasn't a very serious injury. I think that guy should be fined."

Radii · 09-25-2007, 10:55 PM

in before the flamewar!

I root against the patriots as much as the next non-patriots fan, and i could see a fine for this, but doesn't an O-lineman trip him up? To suggest he's attempting to drop an elbow on Losman's knee seems absurd to me, he was going for a little shove and something bad happened.

korme · 09-25-2007, 11:04 PM

Then ban Kimo von Oelhoffen

sabotai · 09-25-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

he was going for a little shove

With his elbow?

dime · 09-25-2007, 11:16 PM

I'm surprised the NFL hasn't immediately destroyed the videotape of this incident...

BishopMVP · 09-26-2007, 02:50 AM

He got tripped by the lineman, he'll get fined, have fun with the Patriots bashing.

Karlifornia · 09-26-2007, 02:54 AM

Bring on Trent Edwards! go Stanford!

dime · 09-26-2007, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

He got tripped by the lineman, he'll get fined, have fun with the Patriots bashing.

"...I don't understand it!!! We have Bill Belichick AND Randy Moss AND Tom Brady on our team! We never miss an opportunity to talk about how unappreciated our team is...WHY WOULD ANYONE NOT LIKE US?!?"

it just doesn't add up, I tell you. At least Yankee fans understand why no one can stand their team.

Alan T · 09-26-2007, 07:24 AM

I don't know.. maybe I just hold grudges a lot longer or something, but by far I still despise the 49ers more than any team in football. Maybe its because the Pats are in the AFC and don't really interact with the Falcons much, but I don't really dislike them and actually think they are a fun team to watch.

I guess by far I find the AFC alot more fun to watch these days period, but it doesn't make me despise any of them. Maybe it would be different if my Falcons actually had a shot at contending or something.

jeff061 · 09-26-2007, 07:27 AM

It's possible that Schaub's performance against the Pats a couple years ago played a decent sized part in him being coveted by other teams and ultimatly leading to the Falcons being forced to use their current stiff.

Just trying to give you reasons.

Radii · 09-26-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

With his elbow?

he got tripped by a lineman and was falling. My point is that he maybe gets a fine because he was still aggressively pursuing the QB after the ball was out, but the claims that this was an intentionally dirty play just seems absurd to me watching the replay.

I'll go as far as to point out that the O-Lineman was trying to bring down the pass rusher from behind to prevent him from getting a potentially big hit on Losman.

Kodos · 09-26-2007, 09:07 AM

He sure didn't make an effort NOT to hit Losman.

Huckleberry · 09-26-2007, 09:38 AM

LOL. Pats fans are funny.

Nobody braces a fall with their elbow. Sheesh.

Desnudo · 09-26-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dime

"...I don't understand it!!! We have Bill Belichick AND Randy Moss AND Tom Brady on our team! We never miss an opportunity to talk about how unappreciated our team is...WHY WOULD ANYONE NOT LIKE US?!?"

it just doesn't add up, I tell you. At least Yankee fans understand why no one can stand their team.

I feel very smug when I tell people I'm a Patriots fan, and enjoy watching their reaction, which is never positive. So I can understand how Yankees fans are and also understand that the Pats are no longer loveable underdogs.

st.cronin · 09-26-2007, 11:02 AM

Why would the Patriots be trying to injure JP Losman? If it was Peyton Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, sure, I could see calling this a dirty play, but as long as Losman is the starter in Buffalo, that's two wins a year.

Neon_Chaos · 09-26-2007, 11:06 AM

That was sick. He obviously threw that elbow delibirately. Jeez.

MikeVic · 09-26-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Why would the Patriots be trying to injure JP Losman? If it was Peyton Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, sure, I could see calling this a dirty play, but as long as Losman is the starter in Buffalo, that's two wins a year.

Why would the Patriots have to tape signals if they're so good (which I think they are, which is why taping didn't make sense to me)?

I don't think this play should result in anything excessive. Looks like he was pushed into him.

MikeVic · 09-26-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Then ban Kimo von Oelhoffen

Hey that was accidental. He looked concerned right after the play ended too.

Kodos · 09-26-2007, 11:09 AM

Yeah. You could tell that von Oelhoffen felt bad about what happened, as he immediately waved for trainers to come over.

larrymcg421 · 09-26-2007, 11:24 AM

I'm not sure which video some of you are looking at. Yeah, he gets pushed into Losman, but he deliberately reaches his elbow out as he's falling. It's not about Patriots haters or anything else. It's about reality.

gstelmack · 09-26-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm not sure which video some of you are looking at. Yeah, he gets pushed into Losman, but he deliberately reaches his elbow out as he's falling. It's not about Patriots haters or anything else. It's about reality.

I'm looking at the one above, where in the second segment he gets tripped (gets his feet grabbed) as he finishes slicing through the line, leading to him falling sideways into Losman. If he's trying to hit Losman with his elbow, he's diving forward with the forearm, not twisting to the side and falling like that. If you are falling on your side, you most certainly are trying to reach out with your arm and take the brunt on your side or on your forearm.

FrogMan · 09-26-2007, 11:42 AM

disclaimer: I'm a Pats fan, deal with it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

LOL. Pats fans are funny.

Nobody braces a fall with their elbow. Sheesh.

nobody?

Not saying this is what he was doing or not, but we break falls with our forearms all the time in karate. Forward fall, side fall, backward fall, all the time I tell you...

FM

Passacaglia · 09-26-2007, 12:02 PM

Can someone point me to the thread detailing what the Pats did to cheat during the Chargers game? I think I missed it.

rkmsuf · 09-26-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can someone point me to the thread detailing what the Pats did to cheat during the Chargers game? I think I missed it.

they had cameras and mics on the cheerleaders

Passacaglia · 09-26-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

they had cameras and mics on the cheerleaders

But were they using stalls or urinals at the time? And..where's the thread?

rkmsuf · 09-26-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But were they using stalls or urinals at the time? And..where's the thread?

You might have ugly cheerleaders if they use urinals.

Passacaglia · 09-26-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

You might have ugly cheerleaders if they use urinals.

That's probably why the videotapes were destroyed.

Neon_Chaos · 09-26-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'm looking at the one above, where in the second segment he gets tripped (gets his feet grabbed) as he finishes slicing through the line, leading to him falling sideways into Losman. If he's trying to hit Losman with his elbow, he's diving forward with the forearm, not twisting to the side and falling like that. If you are falling on your side, you most certainly are trying to reach out with your arm and take the brunt on your side or on your forearm.

He was already falling forward, from what I saw. And then he twists his entire body to the side. Can anyone tell if he had a view of the leg? I think he was looking at it as he fell. His stomach hit the ground first. I would think that if he were trying to break his fall with his forearm, he would've lowered his arm a bit and take the fall on the shoulder/forearm, the way he was going down, he was eventually going to land on his elbow. It still looks intentional.

Dutch · 09-26-2007, 12:31 PM

I'm not a physics major so I can't point out how you are supposed to fall. I dunno.

Kodos · 09-26-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I'm not a physics major so I can't point out how you are supposed to fall. I dunno.

Any chance you're staying at a Holiday Inn Express?

gstelmack · 09-26-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

He was already falling forward, from what I saw. And then he twists his entire body to the side.

Go to the 0:12 left stage of the video and watch for four seconds (until around 0:08). You see him charging through with both arms in front, and then someone from the Bills falling from the left with their hands out and hits the back of his feet. At that point Wilfork's entire movement changes. That's when he starts twisting and pulling his arms in, plus his head turns to face more to the sidelines. It's hard to see any evidence that he is looking forward at Losman's knee.

gstelmack · 09-26-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Any chance you're staying at a Holiday Inn Express?

Nice one.

Atocep · 09-26-2007, 12:57 PM

In all honestly, outside of being a major Pats homer, I don't see how anyone can watch that video and claim he was bracing himself for a fall.

Look at the angle his elbow was at as he fell into Losman. There's no way he was simply bracing himself.

gstelmack · 09-26-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

In all honestly, outside of being a major Pats homer, I don't see how anyone can watch that video and claim he was bracing himself for a fall.

Look at the angle his elbow was at as he fell into Losman. There's no way he was simply bracing himself.

I guess I'm a Pats homer then, since I can't see how anyone can watch that video and talk about the immense body control he has after being tripped up by someone falling on his ankles to aim that forearm so precisely...

Apathetic Lurker · 09-26-2007, 02:09 PM

It wasn't intentional.

Passacaglia · 09-26-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Why would the Patriots be trying to injure JP Losman? If it was Peyton Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, sure, I could see calling this a dirty play, but as long as Losman is the starter in Buffalo, that's two wins a year.

Maybe they just think he's an asshole?

st.cronin · 09-26-2007, 02:11 PM

Bring back "apatheric lurker."

st.cronin · 09-26-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Maybe they just think he's an asshole?

That's two serious responses to what I thought was an obvious joke post.

Passacaglia · 09-26-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

That's two serious responses to what I thought was an obvious joke post.

Oh, sorry, my post was a joke also. Guess I'm not so funny after all.

st.cronin · 09-26-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Oh, sorry, my post was a joke also. Guess I'm not so funny after all.

No, you're the funniest funny-man on fofc. It's my fault.

Radii · 09-26-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I guess I'm a Pats homer then, since I can't see how anyone can watch that video and talk about the immense body control he has after being tripped up by someone falling on his ankles to aim that forearm so precisely...

+1

larrymcg421 · 09-26-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I guess I'm a Pats homer then, since I can't see how anyone can watch that video and talk about the immense body control he has after being tripped up by someone falling on his ankles to aim that forearm so precisely...

It wouldn't be any better (except for Losman's health) if he was "precise" or not. He could have just thrown the elbow out there hoping to hit something and got lucky. We're not syaing he has amazing body control while being tripped up, just that he was wrong for aiming the elbow in the first place.

Also, I'm a Canes homer more than a Pats hater so I'm not inclined to be out for this guy. Now if he was playing for the Jets, I'd gladly join in a discussion of how he probably molested puppies immediately after the play.

gstelmack · 09-26-2007, 02:42 PM

I just see Wilfork going more like "Wha?" as he's falling as opposed to "Awesome, an excuse to plant this elbow in Losman without getting penalized" based on how that transpires. When my wife steps on my heel while shepherding kids around, the only thought in my head is trying to stay on my feet and not fall on one of them...

sabotai · 09-26-2007, 03:02 PM

disclaimer: I've been a Pats' fan since Parcells became their coach and have, with few exceptions, wanted them to win, so deal with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep

In all honestly, outside of being a major Pats homer, I don't see how anyone can watch that video and claim he was bracing himself for a fall.

Agreed. He's already falling forward when his ankles get hit and he's clearly looking at Losman's leg the entire time.

gstelmack · 09-26-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

he's clearly looking at Losman's leg the entire time.

His helmet turns 90 degrees during that fall. How can he be looking at his leg the entire time?

Pumpy Tudors · 09-26-2007, 03:21 PM

I'm not usually the guy to turn to for seriousness, but here goes. I don't think it was intentional.

Neon_Chaos · 09-26-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

He could have just thrown the elbow out there hoping to hit something and got lucky. We're not syaing he has amazing body control while being tripped up, just that he was wrong for aiming the elbow in the first place.

This is my train of thought. He knew where Losman was, and regardless if he was falling sideways, forwards, or whatever, he stuck that elbow out there probably hoping to hit something and he did. That in itself was very questionable. And it's obviously clear that he wasn't trying to land on that specific elbow/forearm.

09-26-2007, 02:54 AM	#10
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Bring on Trent Edwards! go Stanford! __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

09-26-2007, 07:27 AM	#13
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	It's possible that Schaub's performance against the Pats a couple years ago played a decent sized part in him being coveted by other teams and ultimatly leading to the Falcons being forced to use their current stiff. Just trying to give you reasons. __________________

09-26-2007, 09:38 AM	#16
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	LOL. Pats fans are funny. Nobody braces a fall with their elbow. Sheesh. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

09-26-2007, 11:02 AM	#18
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Why would the Patriots be trying to injure JP Losman? If it was Peyton Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, sure, I could see calling this a dirty play, but as long as Losman is the starter in Buffalo, that's two wins a year. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-26-2007, 11:06 AM	#19
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	That was sick. He obviously threw that elbow delibirately. Jeez. __________________ Come and see.

09-25-2007, 10:42 PM	#2
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	Every team does it. Not a big deal.

09-25-2007, 10:43 PM	#3
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Fine?

09-25-2007, 10:55 PM	#5
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	in before the flamewar! I root against the patriots as much as the next non-patriots fan, and i could see a fine for this, but doesn't an O-lineman trip him up? To suggest he's attempting to drop an elbow on Losman's knee seems absurd to me, he was going for a little shove and something bad happened.

09-25-2007, 11:04 PM	#6
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Then ban Kimo von Oelhoffen

09-25-2007, 11:16 PM	#8
dime High School JV Join Date: Sep 2006	I'm surprised the NFL hasn't immediately destroyed the videotape of this incident...

09-26-2007, 02:50 AM	#9
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	He got tripped by the lineman, he'll get fined, have fun with the Patriots bashing.

09-26-2007, 07:24 AM	#12
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I don't know.. maybe I just hold grudges a lot longer or something, but by far I still despise the 49ers more than any team in football. Maybe its because the Pats are in the AFC and don't really interact with the Falcons much, but I don't really dislike them and actually think they are a fun team to watch. I guess by far I find the AFC alot more fun to watch these days period, but it doesn't make me despise any of them. Maybe it would be different if my Falcons actually had a shot at contending or something.

09-26-2007, 09:07 AM	#15
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	He sure didn't make an effort NOT to hit Losman.

09-26-2007, 11:09 AM	#22
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Yeah. You could tell that von Oelhoffen felt bad about what happened, as he immediately waved for trainers to come over. __________________ Indiana Hoosiers Football - 2025-26 National Champs The FOFC Ladder History thread

09-26-2007, 11:24 AM	#23
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	I'm not sure which video some of you are looking at. Yeah, he gets pushed into Losman, but he deliberately reaches his elbow out as he's falling. It's not about Patriots haters or anything else. It's about reality. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

09-26-2007, 12:02 PM	#26
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Can someone point me to the thread detailing what the Pats did to cheat during the Chargers game? I think I missed it.

09-26-2007, 12:31 PM	#32
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I'm not a physics major so I can't point out how you are supposed to fall. I dunno.

09-26-2007, 12:57 PM	#36
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	In all honestly, outside of being a major Pats homer, I don't see how anyone can watch that video and claim he was bracing himself for a fall. Look at the angle his elbow was at as he fell into Losman. There's no way he was simply bracing himself.

09-26-2007, 02:09 PM	#38
Apathetic Lurker College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo,NY	It wasn't intentional.

09-26-2007, 02:11 PM	#40
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Bring back "apatheric lurker." __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-26-2007, 02:42 PM	#46
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	I just see Wilfork going more like "Wha?" as he's falling as opposed to "Awesome, an excuse to plant this elbow in Losman without getting penalized" based on how that transpires. When my wife steps on my heel while shepherding kids around, the only thought in my head is trying to stay on my feet and not fall on one of them... __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

09-26-2007, 03:21 PM	#49
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I'm not usually the guy to turn to for seriousness, but here goes. I don't think it was intentional. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

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