Jason 'Great White Hope' Sehorn released

[AgPete]

Jason Sehorn was released by the Giants.

$8 million cap hit!!!! Too bad he never recovered from that injury. ESPN mentioned he may try to play as a free safety? Is he still worth it at the vet minimum to provide some depth?

[Pyser]

good riddance. $10-mil signing bonus last year. good god. the jints are a good team who just dont understand the cap still.

[Swaggs]

To have his hot wife around is probably worth the vet minimum.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Pyser
good riddance. $10-mil signing bonus last year. good god. the jints are a good team who just dont understand the cap still.

He didn't get it last year.

[cthomer5000]

He's definiteltly worth league minimum, And I'd maybe go as high as 1.5 mill. He's still a good nickel back, and giving safety a chance could be worth it for someone...

[lynchjm24]

Seems pretty dumb to release him and take an 8$ million hit - when he would have stayed for the 1$ million roster bonus and his $1 million dollar salary guaranteed.

Put this on top of Brian Mitchell and I'm starting to worry about Ernie.

[Pyser]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
Seems pretty dumb to release him and take an 8$ million hit - when he would have stayed for the 1$ million roster bonus and his $1 million dollar salary guaranteed.

Put this on top of Brian Mitchell and I'm starting to worry about Ernie.

this is what i'm saying! plus a $5-mil deal for a punter over 4 or 5 yrs, a multi-mil deal for a LONG SNAPPER, and a 3 yr, $2-mil deal for a backup lb i've never heard of to re-sign (did he even play last yr?)....i dont like it. just cuz you have it, doesnt mean you have to spend it.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
Seems pretty dumb to release him and take an 8$ million hit - when he would have stayed for the 1$ million roster bonus and his $1 million dollar salary guaranteed.

Put this on top of Brian Mitchell and I'm starting to worry about Ernie.

I disagree completely. I appluad the Giants for "taking it like a man" and forcing the cap hit to be all this season. Why extend the pain? Take your medicine and get it over with. Not to mention that they would have literally been throwing 1 million dollars away by giving him the March 1st roster bonus. Why wast 9 million when you can waste just 8?

[Pyser]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
I disagree completely. I appluad the Giants for "taking it like a man" and forcing the cap hit to be all this season. Why extend the pain? Take your medicine and get it over with. Not to mention that they would have literally been throwing 1 million dollars away by giving him the March 1st roster bonus. Why wast 9 million when you can waste just 8?

i guess the nice thing is they already spent that 8 when they gave him the money...so its not like they are spending $8 to get rid of him....

basically, it was just a dumb deal. not unlike giving a $24-mil deal to shaun williams, a safety who has yet to step it up...but at least he starts.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Pyser
this is what i'm saying! plus a $5-mil deal for a punter over 4 or 5 yrs, a multi-mil deal for a LONG SNAPPER, and a 3 yr, $2-mil deal for a backup lb i've never heard of to re-sign (did he even play last yr?)....i dont like it. just cuz you have it, doesnt mean you have to spend it.

Please keep these numbers in perspective. Millions sound like a lot to you and me, but to NFL players, they don't sound like a lot.

Jeff Feagles - five-year deal worth $4.3 million that includes a $500,000 signing bonus.

Ok, that means 100,000 in bonus per year. On to the base salary: 5 years times 775,000 (league minimum for a player of his age) = 3.875 million dollars. How are they overpaying? If they think he's a good punter, they think he's worth 100,000 better than league minimum per year. Why do you think this is silly? The only "overpayment" is the signing bonus!

Long Snapper Ryan Keuhl -five-year, $3.62 million contract that includes a $325,000 signing bonus

That averages to 724,000 per season. If you don't think the Giants need a long snapper, please see the game film of San Francisco-New York Giants (Wild Card Playoff game)

3 yr, $2-mil deal for a backup lb i've never heard of to re-sign (did he even play last yr?)

Again, 666,000 per season. Has any player you've "never heard of" ever gone on to become a player worth at least 666,000? Think about it. The scouting and coaching staffs probably have their reasons for wanting to keep whichever player you're talking about (potential, continuity, work-ethic, leadership, etc). Living in the area and being a Jet fan, I hear and see a lot of what the Giants do. I think they have done a very good job so far this offseason.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Pyser
i guess the nice thing is they already spent that 8 when they gave him the money...so its not like they are spending $8 to get rid of him....

basically, it was just a dumb deal. not unlike giving a $24-mil deal to shaun williams, a safety who has yet to step it up...but at least he starts.

I agree with you. Everyone thought "what the hell are they doing?" when the Giants gave Sehorn that deal, they simply should have known better. He didn't deserve that kind of signing bonus.

[Pyser]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Living in the area and being a Jet fan, I hear and see a lot of what the Giants do. I think they have done a very good job so far this offseason.

i have season tix to the giants....i understand the cap and all, and what big money is....but explain this to me. while the giants finally have somone to return a kickoff, they just lost a starting guard, dont have a right tackle, still havent signed their center, have no d-line depth, blah blah blah. i understand special teams was a priority, but come on. ive NEVER seen a team throw this much money around on special teams in the first week of f/a.

i love the team to death. i'm just really not liking accorsi anymore.

by the by, petigout can play, but is he worth all that money? i guess someone else might've given it to him.....just seems the giants overpay everyone, especially their own. significantly overpay.

[Leonidas]

I kinda think the Giants got what they deserved. How do you give this guy the kind of bonus and money they did after that atrocious Super Bowl a couple years back? The guy has been in decline for at least 3, maybe 4 years. Maybe, just maybe he could make a decent nickel back on a team really lacking or even a backup (notice I say backup) safety. He simply doesn't have the legs to be a decent starting DB in the league anymore and hasn't been for sometime. Perhaps he could fill the same kind of role Bill Bates did in Dallas as a special teams guy. Otherwise I see no real use for him at anything above league minimum.

[kcchief19]

Everything Homer said goes double for me. I think the real mistake was giving the guy the money in the first place. The guy was horrible. He's a fine nickle back, but if you're starting this guy, you've got problems.

Of course, if I had his wife, I'd probably be too sore to play football real well either.

[Blackadar]

I bet he ends up with the Steelers as a strong safety.

[bosshogg23]

Sehorn was a very good cover corner for about 2 years. Unfortunately for the Giants, he got hurt and it was on the wrong side of 30.

He was never as good as Madden and some others believed, but hey, neither was A. Williams of St. Louis(formerly Phoenix/Arizona).

I think he would make a good nickel defender, but I cant see him as a safety. He is slow since his injury and never hit hard enough. I would certainly offer him 1 million if I was a team in contention though(Oakland?, Green Bay?).

[lynchjm24]

I don't think you guys give Sehorn enough credit. He was a TREMENDOUS player before he got hurt returning the kickoff in the preseason.

Anyone who thinks he is going to be Bill Bates, either never saw Sehorn or Bates. Sehorn has no desire to actually tackle anyone. Makes it tough to be Bill Bates.

The thing I still don't understand is why they had him in single coverage most of the second half on Owens against the Niners? What was the point there?

As for the other moves, they needed help on specials, but Delvin Joyce was a very nice player last year and they sure as heck didn't need Mitchell. Punter and snapper yes, Mitchell no way.

[bosshogg23]

I really believe that signing Mitchell is as much about him knowing the Eagles offense as it is about the yardage on kickoffs he can provide.

The Eagles offense is a somewhat dumbdowned(is that a word?) version of the WCO. I think Mitchell will provide at least a basic understanding of what Philadelphia was/is running, aside from what can be seen on film.

[GrantDawg]

The Falcons could use secondary help...

[mckerney]

Cutting him was a horrible move.

Though I could be influenced by the fact that the Vikings are now reportedly interested in him.

[Chris01]

I'm still trying to figure out if it was the injury or him getting married that caused his decline.

[Dargone]

If your wife was that hot it might cause your job performance to suffer as well...

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
I don't think you guys give Sehorn enough credit. He was a TREMENDOUS player before he got hurt returning the kickoff in the preseason.

Anyone who thinks he is going to be Bill Bates, either never saw Sehorn or Bates. Sehorn has no desire to actually tackle anyone. Makes it tough to be Bill Bates.

The thing I still don't understand is why they had him in single coverage most of the second half on Owens against the Niners? What was the point there?

As for the other moves, they needed help on specials, but Delvin Joyce was a very nice player last year and they sure as heck didn't need Mitchell. Punter and snapper yes, Mitchell no way.

I apologize for the Bill Bates statement. I loved BB and you are correct. Sehorn has never shown the same kind of heart. My unspoken point was that athletically, Bates has the talent to be that type o fplayer. In reality, he has been too pampered to ever have the kind of mentality Bates had. Really a jackass thing for me to throw up there and again, I retract the statement.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Pyser
i understand special teams was a priority, but come on. ive NEVER seen a team throw this much money around on special teams in the first week of f/a.

Have you been watching the Redskins this off-season?

I think the Giants are doing the right thing. Going into training camp last year Fassell said his top priority was working out the problems with the special teams. The problem was that they tried to do it on the cheap, didn't resign Morten Anderson, and the kicking game hurt them all year. The 49ers game brought it to a boil.

Originally posted by Pyser
by the by, petigout can play, but is he worth all that money? i guess someone else might've given it to him.....just seems the giants overpay everyone, especially their own. significantly overpay.

Pettigout was a pretty hot name around the league, there simply aren't many starting tackles available this year. They may have overpaid slightly but I don't think it's totally out of line. Sometimes it's worth overpaying to maintain consistency. Although Petigout does seem to be called for holding or false start a lot.

i have season tix to the giants....i understand the cap and all, and what big money is....but explain this to me. while the giants finally have somone to return a kickoff, they just lost a starting guard, dont have a right tackle, still havent signed their center, have no d-line depth, blah blah blah.
I love the team to death. i'm just really not liking accorsi anymore.

I agree that Accorsi can be pretty questionable. The Giants at times will really bid against themselves and overpay. The two best examples are Kerry Collins and Jason Sehorn. While Collins has worked out, no one was offering him nearly the amount of money the Giants gave him that year. He had just been cut by two terrible teams! They should have seen the Sehorn thing coming a mile away, everyone else did. They completely overpaid at the time, there is no debating this.

[korme]

Look for the Bengals to try to please the people and sign a big name FA... who isn't any good anymore. I can see it happening.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Leonidas
I apologize for the Bill Bates statement. I loved BB and you are correct. Sehorn has never shown the same kind of heart. My unspoken point was that athletically, Bates has the talent to be that type o fplayer. In reality, he has been too pampered to ever have the kind of mentality Bates had. Really a jackass thing for me to throw up there and again, I retract the statement.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about here. Sehorn was never pampered, he actually came from a really poor background.

Bates could never carry Sehorn's jock. Sehorn was gifted.

[FBPro]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
The Falcons could use secondary help...

Yeah, they could do worse than trying to sign him.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
I'm not quite sure what you are talking about here. Sehorn was never pampered, he actually came from a really poor background.

Bates could never carry Sehorn's jock. Sehorn was gifted.

One of the unique aspects of FOFC is that you will always piss somebody off. I threw an opinion out there, PO'd someone who actually was able to make me change my opinion. I retract my statement and apologize, only to piss off someone else. Such is life, you can't make everyone happy, nor should you really even try.

[Pyser]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
The Falcons could use secondary help...

he'd probably get another $10-mil signing bonus from them, too.

ah, my poor giants. they are amazing though. they dont manage the cap well, their recent drafts are BAD, and yet, 8-8 or 10-6 every year.

by the way, in case anyone is keeping count, since the jints made the playoffs last year, they are contractually obligated to miss them during the final week of this coming season.

[sabotai]

Recent drafts have been bad? They haven't had the best ones, but they haven't been bad.

2001 they god Will Allen (rd1) and Will Peterson (rd3) [no rd2 pick]. 2 Good corners that are both starting and both still improving.

And last season they got Jeremy Shockey. They also got Tim Carter, a player I was impressed with until his injury knocked him out for the season.

No, I wouldn't say overall the Giants have had great drafts....but BAD is something that is really reserved for the Bengals.

[AgPete]

Originally posted by sabotai

No, I wouldn't say overall the Giants have had great drafts....but BAD is something that is really reserved for the Bengals.

Or the Cowboys before 2002.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Leonidas
One of the unique aspects of FOFC is that you will always piss somebody off. I threw an opinion out there, PO'd someone who actually was able to make me change my opinion. I retract my statement and apologize, only to piss off someone else. Such is life, you can't make everyone happy, nor should you really even try.

It was the same damn guy who disagreed with you both times. While I kind of agreed with you on the possibility of Sehorn extending his career by becoming a Bill Bates-type of players, I have no idea what you're whining about. I can't see how someone disagreeing with you is particularly unique to FOFC. If you said 2-ply definitely beats 1-ply, SOMEBODY is bound to disagree with you. If they are at least reasonable with their disagreement and offer up some type of reasons, then at least you can have a dialog of sorts. The attempted sarcasm was wonderfully over the top, however.

Like Jim, I'm curious as to where you got the pampered part from.

[Pyser]

Originally posted by sabotai
No, I wouldn't say overall the Giants have had great drafts....but BAD is something that is really reserved for the Bengals.

ok, bad may be a tad strong....but heres a rundown...

1999 draft:
Round Overall Pick Player Pos School
1 19 Luke Petitgout OT Notre Dame
2 49 Joe Montgomery RB Ohio St.
3 79 Daniel Campbell TE Texas A&M
4 112 Sean Bennett RB Northwestern
5 149 Mike Rosenthal OG Notre Dame
6 189 Lyle West CB San Jose St.
6 205 Andre Weathers S Michigan
7 225 Ryan Hale DT Arkansas
7 231 O.J. Childress OLB Clemson


2000 draft:
Rd Sel# Player Pos. Ht. Wt. 40yd School
1 11 Ron Dayne RB 5-10 255 4.6 Wisconsin
2 42 Cornelius Griffin DT 6-3 290 4.9 Alabama
3 73 Ron Dixon WR 5-11 185 4.55 Lambuth
4 105 Brandon Short ILB 6-3 250 4.65 Penn State
5 140 Ralph Brown CB 5-9 175 4.55 Nebraska
6 177 Dhani Jones ILB 6-1 235 4.7 Michigan
7 217 Jeremiah Parker DE 6-5 275 5.1 California


2001 draft:
Rd Sel# Player Pos. Ht. Wt. 40yd School
1 22 Will Allen CB 5-10 195 4.35 Syracuse
3 78 William Peterson CB 6-0 195 4.5 Western Illinois
4 114 Cedric Scott DE 6-5 275 4.75 Southern Mississippi
4 125 Jesse Palmer QB 6-2 225 4.8 Florida
5 160 John Markham K 6-1 210 n/a Vanderbilt
5 162 Jon Carter WR 5-11 175 4.45 Troy State
7 230 Ross Kolodziej DE 6-3 285 4.8 Wisconsin


2002 draft
Rd Sel# Player Pos. Ht. Wt. School
1 14 Shockey, Jeremy TE 6-5 255 Miami (Fla.)
2 46 Carter, Tim WR 6-0 190 Auburn
3 78 Hatch, Jeff C 6-6 307 Pennsylvania
5 152 Greisen, Nick ILB 6-1 233 Wisconsin
6 188 Mallard, Wesly SS 6-2 221 Oregon
7 226 Jones, Daryl WR 5-9 180 Miami (Fla.)
7 245 Monk, Quincy OLB 6-3 242 North Carolina


obviously some of the picks are too recent to know how they'll turn out. and looking at the list, a couple players have turned out nicely. i guess im not proving any strong point here, but, it sure is fun to look at the last 4 drafts, isnt it??

i STILL dont like accorsi though!

[oykib]

Well... from NY local sports radio:

Gary Myers came on and, basically, said that Sehorn was willing to take a cut from his $5.2 million base salary to $1 million. But he wanted the Giants to guarantee the mil. The Giants refused.

It makes sense as far as Sehorn is concerned. He didn't want to have to worry about being cut in training camp. If he's going to get cut, he wanted to get out on the market now.

[rkmsuf]

I think the bottom line is that Sehorn can't play anymore...too bad because he was once a great cover guy. Combine his loss of skills with seemingly diverse interests out of football and you have a guy that you can't let hang around. He could probably hang on as a 3 or 4 corner but the Giants did the right thing and will look for some upside at that position.

What amazes me is what I hear out of the Giants thinking they need to resign all their guys and feel like they are on the brink of something by keeping the team together. With the current cast they are the prototypical 9-7, 10-6 one and done squad...

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by daedalus
It was the same damn guy who disagreed with you both times. While I kind of agreed with you on the possibility of Sehorn extending his career by becoming a Bill Bates-type of players, I have no idea what you're whining about.

I did disagree twice.

I don't get the Bill Bates reference, he's the exact opposite of Sehorn. Jason can't be a Bates type special teams player - he doesn't tackle.

Sehorn wasn't pampered. If you know anything about the guy's background he grew up in a very poor single family household. The Giants overpaid him, but I don't think they pampered him. He was a tremendous player whose career was ruined by an injury in a preseason game on the shitty Meadowlands turf. I think it's safe to infer that it's Fassel who doesn't want him around anymore.

As for Accorsi, those drafts aren't that bad now that I see them. It's not like they have picked in the top 10. Dayne is a clown, but there are a lot of solid players in those drafts, I'm sure more players left on the roster then at least 20 teams in the league over the same period of time.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
I did disagree twice.

I know. That's what I said.

I don't get the Bill Bates reference, he's the exact opposite of Sehorn. Jason can't be a Bates type special teams player - he doesn't tackle.

Can't speak as to how he meant . . .

As for what I mean . . . Do I think Sehorn can be kamikaze wedge-breaker in the Bates/Tasker mold? Not anymore than I'm likely to confused Deione with Ronnie Lott. On the other hand, while I don't follow USC or Sehorn's career, I do vaguely recall him being converted to corner from wide receiver. So, I do think it's conceivable that he could have the work ethic to re-work himself into a self-made player in spite of limited-tools who could contribute in nickle and special team situations. If he so chooses.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by daedalus
On the other hand, while I don't follow USC or Sehorn's career, I do vaguely recall him being converted to corner from wide receiver. So, I do think it's conceivable that he could have the work ethic to re-work himself into a self-made player in spite of limited-tools who could contribute in nickle and special team situations.

He was a safety in college, not a receiver. If he is going to play in nickle situations how would he have to re-work himself? He'd still be a corner.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
If he is going to play in nickle situations how would he have to re-work himself? He'd still be a corner.

And that would be true. Assuming, of course, I said "Jason Sehorn, who had been a corner, would have to re-work himself learn to play corner again so he can a corner in a nickle situation".

On the other hand, maybe you could actually look at the WHOLE sentence and possibly see that I'd said "a self-made player in spite of limited-tools who could contribute in nickle and special team situations". But, then, that doesn't quite lend itself to such a wonderful one-line response, though, huh?

[daedalus]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
He was a safety in college, not a receiver.

Sadly, I'm frequently wrong. And since I'm no Sehorn expert, I'll have to defer here. On the other hand, we should probably notify Sehorn himself of this.

Transferred to USC after a record-setting career as a receiver and tailback at Shasta Community College (Redding, Calif.).

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by daedalus
Sadly, I'm frequently wrong. And since I'm no Sehorn expert, I'll have to defer here. On the other hand, we should probably notify Sehorn himself of this.

If we want to go back far enough everyone played QB as youths and both sides of the ball in high school.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
If we want to go back far enough everyone played QB as youths and both sides of the ball in high school.

And shortstop and point guard. Yay!

On the other hand, and I may again be wrong here, Shasta Community College sounds a whole heck of a lot like a "college". Y'know, what with the "He was a safety in college, not a receiver." part and all.

[JimJam19]

I am a huge NY Giants fan, so this is probably a bit bias, but i dont think you guys give the Giants enough credit. They really are a good team, Collins, Toomer, Hilliard, Shockey is an AMAZING offense, and if last year didnt prove that to you guys, then wait for next with Hilliard healthy. There is a lot of talent on this team, a strong draft, in my opinion, can put them over the top.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by daedalus
And shortstop and point guard. Yay!

On the other hand, and I may again be wrong here, Shasta Community College sounds a whole heck of a lot like a "college". Y'know, what with the "He was a safety in college, not a receiver." part and all.

Shasta Community College sounds like a soda. I'll give it to him though, I was wrong he did play receiver in 'college'.

I just saw Ernie on Best of Mike and the Mad Dog - his explanation for releasing Sehorn made a ton of sense.

The 4.5 million dollars it frees up now, is worth more then the 6 million they would have gotten for waiting until June 1.
That was pretty much his point.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
The 4.5 million dollars it frees up now, is worth more then the 6 million they would have gotten for waiting until June 1.
That was pretty much his point.

Is that because of the roster bonus?

[sabotai]

I might be interpetting this wrong...

But it sounds liek the Giants would have saved more if they waited, but if they waited they wouldn't be able to pursue some free agents. And that's why the 4.5 mil is more important than waiting and saving 6 mil...

Am I reading it right? Is that what they meant?

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by sabotai
I might be interpetting this wrong...

But it sounds liek the Giants would have saved more if they waited, but if they waited they wouldn't be able to pursue some free agents. And that's why the 4.5 mil is more important than waiting and saving 6 mil...

Am I reading it right? Is that what they meant?

That's what Ernie says. He wanted to keep Sehorn. Sehorn was going to waive the roster bonus, but he wanted his salary guaranteed and Ernie says he didn't think it was right for Sehorn no to have any risk on the field as far as his salary went.

[Pyser]

ive read sehorn was going to cost $7.2 against this years cap (without taking a pay cut). by releasing him, he costs $8 against the salary cap. so cutting him only cost the team an extra $800,000. it apparently didnt cripple their cap this year, because they were already managing just fine with him there at $7.2. for less than a mil more, may as well get rid of him.

bottom line is he just never should have had that money to begin with.

[albionmoonlight]

Totally. And now the Rams are going to make the same mistake with him at Safety. When your main qualification for safety is that you are not good enough to play cornerback anymore, it does not say a lot for you.

[ISiddiqui]

albion: But it could work. I mean, if they sign him for $1 million, and they find out it won't work with him as safety, he can just play in the nickle package. You don't lose much that way, and he's definetly a good enough player to be a 3rd or 4th CB.