Pats 16-0 Season Was in ANY way Influenced by NFL through refs.

[molson]

So, where do we stand?

[Cringer]

Looks like 100% say yes.

[Abe Sargent]

It would be stupid to say no here, every single call or non call influences a game, and it is by NFL employees, so of COURSE the NFL influced the games through refs. Now, if you meant something else, such as "Did the NFL intentionally try to keep the Patriots undefeated through calls?" then you might want to edit your poll.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

It would be stupid to say no here, every single call or non call influences a game, and it is by NFL employees, so of COURSE the NFL influced the games through refs. Now, if you meant something else, such as "Did the NFL intentionally try to keep the Patriots undefeated through calls?" then you might want to edit your poll.

Point taken, though I think the purpose of the poll is clear.

[Atocep]

Is there a point to this poll?

I'm sure there is, but I don't see how the outcome either way would mean anything.

[Cringer]

WHy did people vote 'no' and ruin the 100%? Bastards can't keep a good thing going can you? Learn how to work kid....

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Is there a point to this poll?

I'm sure there is, but I don't see how the outcome either way would mean anything.

I think it's quite telling either way....Hard to take NFL football dicussion from someone seriously if they think it's run like the WWE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Hard to take NFL football dicussion from someone seriously if they think it's run like the WWE.

Not nearly as hard to take seriously as listening to someone who doesn't believe it's possible.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

I think it's quite telling either way....Hard to take NFL football dicussion from someone seriously if they think it's run like the WWE.

I haven't watched enough pats games to say either way, but there's no way you can discout the possibility with so many dollars at stake.

The NBA gets trashed for its officiating and what can appear, at times, as fixed games so I don't see why the NFL should be immune to the criticism.

[stevew]

I just want to see one dehabilitating holding call actually made against the Patriots. Just one time.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The NBA gets trashed for its officiating and what can appear, at times, as fixed games so I don't see why the NFL should be immune to the criticism.

Brings up an interesting seperate point. How come the NFL gets passes on things that other leagues get slammed for? I'm thinking steroids with the MLB as the most obvious, but this would qualify as well.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Brings up an interesting seperate point. How come the NFL gets passes on things that other leagues get slammed for? I'm thinking steroids with the MLB as the most obvious, but this would qualify as well.

Not sure I see your point here.

The NFL had steroid issues and dealt with them, where as MLB tried to hide their heads in the sand.

The NBA had ref-gate come out which is an obvious problem. There has been nothing about a ref, or refs, intentionally making calls one way or another in the NFL so I can't see how you say they get a free pass for "this" when there currently is no "this".

[14ers]

I think the cheating will not come until the Playoffs when the NFL will be doing everything possible to "Help" the Patriots.


I can see the NFL rescheduling the Patriots Playoff games to miss bad weather to help them out. Did the NFL post the Playoff schedule with game times yet, or are they going to do that later, when they can see what days and times would benefit the Patriots?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The NFL had steroid issues and dealt with them, where as MLB tried to hide their heads in the sand.

There's much more to it than baseball simply hiding their heads in the sand.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The NBA had ref-gate come out which is an obvious problem. There has been nothing about a ref, or refs, intentionally making calls one way or another in the NFL so I can't see how you say they get a free pass for "this" when there currently is no "this".

The NBA has been accused of fixing games for a long time and it had nothing to do Tom Donaghy.

[Suburban Rhythm]

My thinking is a mix of most of the above.

Do I think there were calls made that had a hand in helping the Patriots to 16-0? Yes.

Do I think there was a conspiracy by the NFL, ordering refs to makes iffy calls? No.

This is not to say the Patriots, without the help of questionable calls, are a 10-6 team. But I think they might be a 15-1 team, and that's what the question is-- would they be undefeated.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by stevew

I just want to see one dehabilitating holding call actually made against the Patriots. Just one time.

how about a dehabilitating phantom pass interference call?

[JS19]

I was sitting way up top, and only saw the replay on the jumbotron thing, and also had a few drinks in me, but that looked like a complete BS illegal contact call on Webster (i believe thats who it was) when Pierce sacked Brady.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I think the cheating will not come until the Playoffs when the NFL will be doing everything possible to "Help" the Patriots.


I can see the NFL rescheduling the Patriots Playoff games to miss bad weather to help them out. Did the NFL post the Playoff schedule with game times yet, or are they going to do that later, when they can see what days and times would benefit the Patriots?

Next weeks schedule is out already. The following week will schedule will be announced next week. If the NFL can predict the weather exactly, one week in advance, they kick ass and can do anything they want.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I think the cheating will not come until the Playoffs when the NFL will be doing everything possible to "Help" the Patriots.


I can see the NFL rescheduling the Patriots Playoff games to miss bad weather to help them out. Did the NFL post the Playoff schedule with game times yet, or are they going to do that later, when they can see what days and times would benefit the Patriots?

Remember, Shiny side of the tinfoil helmet on the outside, not the inside. *rolls eyes*

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Next weeks schedule is out already. The following week will schedule will be announced next week. If the NFL can predict the weather exactly, one week in advance, they kick ass and can do anything they want.

I can't believe I'm posting in this thread, but I heard that the teams with bye weeks are slotted for what time their games will play already.

[gstelmack]

Anyone who votes "Yes" here also needs to step forward and say that the NFL tried to derail the 16-0 season with the calls in the Colts game.

And those looking for specific calls to go against the Patriots also need to step forward and admit how BS some of the PI calls are when the DB gets position on the receiver and is making a play for the ball.

Or in other words, I think it's all evened out this year. They caught some breaks, they had some go against them. It's not their fault teams like the Ravens and the Colts self-destructed with some horrible plays at the end of games they should have won.

[WelshWizard]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

how about a dehabilitating phantom pass interference call?

Yep the Pats had a couple of them against Indianapolis.

[stevew]

I don't think that the refs by nature conspire for anything. I do think there are some rediculous situations that can develop and start to make a person wonder, however. I mean, the Polamalu interception overturn a couple years back was one of the worst calls I've ever seen in my life, if not the worst. But I don't think that the ref wanted to make the colts win. He was just lousy at his job, and should have been fired.

Shit, NBA refs are 100000 times worse than nfl refs.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

The NFL had steroid issues and dealt with them, where as MLB tried to hide their heads in the sand.

If you really think the NFL is clean, then you may be on something . True, MLB dragged on the issue, but now have very strict penalties. MLB players get dragged through the coals, with people suggesting their records get purged from the books and that they shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame... Merriman gets found out that he used steroids and.... a little of nothing really after his 4 game suspension. How many people are taunting him this year at stadiums?

The NBA had ref-gate come out which is an obvious problem. There has been nothing about a ref, or refs, intentionally making calls one way or another in the NFL so I can't see how you say they get a free pass for "this" when there currently is no "this".

As stated, ref-gate came out well after the very vocalized suspicions of crooked refs was being bandied about.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I can't believe I'm posting in this thread, but I heard that the teams with bye weeks are slotted for what time their games will play already.

Two weeks in advance is even better then. The NFL are the masters of weather.

[Brownkeg8]

Only one thing to say. The Ravens had the Patriots stopped & beat, but Ravens sideline called a TO. Neither the Refs or the league had anything to do with that.

[Jas_lov]

This thread is absurd! Refs make mistakes both ways. They don't have an agenda to ensure that the Patriots finish 16-0 or 19-0. As others have pointed out, the Colts got the benefit of some questioniable PI calls when they played the Patriots. One of them especially was horrible as Wayne practically ran over the Patriots defender, but it was called on the Patriots. Other Patriots games I've seen i haven't noticed anything fishy. Usually they're up by 20-30 anyway. They had only 4 close games all year, they scored the most points in NFL history, and they broke a lot of other records. Did the refs help them do all of these things? Ridiculous.

[saldana]

i voted yes, and honestly believe that there were some calls that should or should not have been made during the course of the season that really changed the balance or momentum of games (the illegal contact penalty saturday night on what was 3rd and 23 comes to mind instantly)

that said, i also think the patriots are one of the best teams i have ever seen (and i hate them, so that was rather difficult to say)

[DaddyTorgo]

if you all seriously think the NFL is rigging games to help the Pats win then I suggest (respectfully) that you quit your bitching and find a new sport to watch.

seriously, if the league is cheating to help the Pats win, then go find some other sport to watch and stop complaining about this one if it's not a real "sport" and it's more "wwe-like" and "entertainment."

[Cringer]

If the NFL was going to rig something, it should have been the Dolphins going 0-16. The NFL is so unfair.

[rkmsuf]

I would hope if the NFL was rigging something it would be cheerleader nip slips.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Cringer

If the NFL was going to rig something, it should have been the Dolphins going 0-16. The NFL is so unfair.

No offense to anyone else who's posted, but this is the most insightful thing posted in the entire thread so far.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Cringer

If the NFL was going to rig something, it should have been the Dolphins going 0-16. The NFL is so unfair.

Only need to rig a couple games, too.

[Noop]

I can not say for sure either way but I am 51/49 on this issue. On one hand it seems beyond belief that the NFL would actually do that but sometimes I wonder...

[Julio Riddols]

I don't think it is remotely possible that any games were rigged in any way. Refs make bad calls all the time. If the NFL was "Entertainment" they wouldn't have celebration penalties for something so ridiculous as using the ball as a prop. I don't see why team celebrations aren't allowed anyway and why things like the Ickey Shuffle were banned or forced to the sidelines. Its one thing to taunt the other team, but to celebrate a TD, thats natural. Success should be celebrated, just not to the point that it is unsportsmanlike.

When it comes to things like holding or whatever else, the flag is thrown before the result of the play is determined in most cases. I can't imagine the refs know before a play finishes how it is going to end. The only call that can really be disputed here at all is pass interference or roughing the passer.

As far as teams getting bullshit calls in their favor on 3rd and long or whatever, it happens to everybody, and it happens for everybody, just the same. I don't think the Patriots 16-0 record was helped by penalties any more than it was hurt by them.

The NFL didn't agree to trade Randy Moss to the Patriots for a 4th round pick. They also didn't sign Wes Welker. They also didn't bring in Donte Stallworth or Adalius Thomas, or make any of the other moves the Pats made this off season in order to complete one of the best teams ever assembled. The reason the Patriots went undefeated was a combination of talent and good coaching, period.

Also, it could be argued that the whole "spygate" scandal did more to hurt the Pats chances than any penalty call this season, because stuff like that can kill a season for a team.. Instead, because the Patriots have such resilience and such strong leadership from the head coach down, they diffused the situation by going out and making it a point to show the league just how good they could be.

Its absolutely silly to think that the NFL would try and "help" a team go 16-0 after they were caught cheating before the season started, IMO.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I haven't watched enough pats games to say either way, but there's no way you can discout the possibility with so many dollars at stake.

The NBA gets trashed for its officiating and what can appear, at times, as fixed games so I don't see why the NFL should be immune to the criticism.

I don't think that the NFL had anything any part of rigging any games, but it is nice to see the consipracy theories sprout the way they have in NBA(San Antonio), NHL(NY Rangers when they won their last title), MLB(Yankees), EPL(ManU), Big East(Pitt/West Va this year), ACC(FSU),etc......

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by stevew

Shit, NBA refs are 100000 times worse than nfl refs.

College basketball refs are better than NBA refs. NBA refs are about on par with WWF refs.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if you all seriously think the NFL is rigging games to help the Pats win then I suggest (respectfully) that you quit your bitching and find a new sport to watch.

seriously, if the league is cheating to help the Pats win, then go find some other sport to watch and stop complaining about this one if it's not a real "sport" and it's more "wwe-like" and "entertainment."

This was my point in starting this poll - how can you vote "yes" and be an NFL fan. It's absurd.

And Jon, this isn't an "is it possible" argument. I didn't intend to direct my venom at you yesterday, I just want to know what people think. Is it true or not?

There's not any conspiracy with NBA refs either. This was 100% proven to me after many NBA refs went to prison for tax evation. If there was some crazy shit going on beneath the scene, they would have offered it up to the feds at that point.

[stevew]

this totally needs to be changed to a public poll(if possible)

[Kodos]

I voted yes just to annoy Pats fans.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by molson

This was my point in starting this poll - how can you vote "yes" and be an NFL fan. It's absurd.

And Jon, this isn't an "is it possible" argument. I didn't intend to direct my venom at you yesterday, I just want to know what people think. Is it true or not?

There's not any conspiracy with NBA refs either. This was 100% proven to me after many NBA refs went to prison for tax evation. If there was some crazy shit going on beneath the scene, they would have offered it up to the feds at that point.

But you know as well as I do the perception is there. Again, I don't believe there is some sort of conspiracy in favor of the Pats. I just feel that we as sports fans accept conspiracies on a regular basis in sports especially with teams that win all the time. Why is it so much of a problem that the NFL and the Pats gets hit with the same conspiracy brush? Just a few weeks ago, people on this board ripped the Big East conference for doing everything in its power to get WVU into the national championship game. Why are those people college football fans while they spout those theories. In fact this is not the first time for the conspiracy theory in the NFL. Wasn't there a "conspiracy" to give the Colts a title against Pittsburgh a few years ago and then another "conspiracy" to give the Steelers a title against the Seahawks after that? Sports fans love conspiracies. I don't see why the Pats should be immune to that fair or unfair.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by stevew

I don't think that the refs by nature conspire for anything. I do think there are some rediculous situations that can develop and start to make a person wonder, however. I mean, the Polamalu interception overturn a couple years back was one of the worst calls I've ever seen in my life, if not the worst. But I don't think that the ref wanted to make the colts win. He was just lousy at his job, and should have been fired.

Shit, NBA refs are 100000 times worse than nfl refs.

The worst call I've ever witnessed was the PI call on the Pats in the playoffs at Denver against Samuel. I've also seen enough both for and against the team I cheer for to know that it can't possibly be intentional.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I voted yes just to annoy Pats fans.

+30 or 35 I believe. One of the nuttiest people on the board says something about the refs, a couple other people make comments too, and molson kinda lost it at everyone and tried to make himself some kind of martyr'd suffering pats fan, now I think everyone else is just trying to push him over the edge. I know I can't look away!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Seriously, what's the big deal about some people suggesting that there's some kind of conspiracy?

You know what? Pick on my teams and see if I give a shit. Call the Broncos cheaters for their salary cap shenanigans. Blame the NHL for allowing the trap and obstructions during the Devils' championship years. Find some way to invalidate the Cardinals' 2006 World Series title since they only won 83 games all year.

Who cares? Why does it matter what other fans -- maybe of them fans of rival teams -- think about anything? I'm not trying to tell other people how to feel or anything, but I just don't see the big deal.

I should note that the NBA is obviously rigged against me personally. They made me happy by getting the Grizzlies into the playoffs three times, and then they had to get real and make sure that the Grizz never won a playoff game. THANKS, DAVID STERN, YOU FUCK!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The worst call I've ever witnessed was the PI call on the Pats in the playoffs at Denver against Samuel. I've also seen enough both for and against the team I cheer for to know that it can't possibly be intentional.

Yeah, but that was at least a real time call. Guy goes under the hood and tries to find a reason to overturn something, I'm trying to figure out wtf his deal is.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I should note that the NBA is obviously rigged against me personally. They made me happy by getting the Grizzlies into the playoffs three times, and then they had to get real and make sure that the Grizz never won a playoff game. THANKS, DAVID STERN, YOU FUCK!

He had to do something to get the folks in Tenneesee to stop watching the Lady Vols.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

It would be stupid to say no here, every single call or non call influences a game, and it is by NFL employees, so of COURSE the NFL influced the games through refs. Now, if you meant something else, such as "Did the NFL intentionally try to keep the Patriots undefeated through calls?" then you might want to edit your poll.

I voted before I read this and this is why I voted yes.

To answer the question that he meant to answer I would say no but I do believe that the NFL did pull strings to get them their super bowl XXXVI. Most people I asked pretty much believed it.

We're all a cynical bunch and the emergence of the "Patriots" after 911 just was too convenient and too good a feel good story to not be scripted. Didn't particularly bother anybody though because we all needed a feel good story around about that time.

[rkmsuf]

some real weirdo opinions in this thread

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I voted before I read this and this is why I voted yes.

To answer the question that he meant to answer I would say no but I do believe that the NFL did pull strings to get them their super bowl XXXVI. Most people I asked pretty much believed it.

We're all a cynical bunch and the emergence of the "Patriots" after 911 just was too convenient and too good a feel good story to not be scripted. Didn't particularly bother anybody though because we all needed a feel good story around about that time.

pulled strings how??

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Radii

+30 or 35 I believe. One of the nuttiest people on the board says something about the refs, a couple other people make comments too, and molson kinda lost it at everyone and tried to make himself some kind of martyr'd suffering pats fan, now I think everyone else is just trying to push him over the edge. I know I can't look away!

I'm going with this.