Combine Scores - Defensive backs

[bignej]

First I’d like to like to link the thread that made me want to do this, especially because I ripped off his formatting and methods. Please feel free to try these or see if the data tells you something different. I was going to post this in his thread but Skydog thought maybe I should make my own.


http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...ad.php?t=61098


DEFENSIVE BACKS:


Disclaimer: I’m a horrible speller and not nearly as scientific as the others conducting these tests. I do believe that the correlations are very closely accurate. Anyone can do these same tests.

TESTING METHOD: I downloaded FAF editor and Yabanci 2007 draft File. I set every value for every player to 0(375) and maxed out individual skills(625) and tracking how it affected every combine score for that position group. BnR,Play Diagnosis and Punishing Hitter are not configurable. I set everyone’s intelligence to 0 and Vol to 1. I started on Main Street difficulty. I only reloaded each test 4 times, not 10 as RedKingGold in his tests, but the numbers stayed pretty consistent. After zeroizing everyone, I ran that file through a few times. I tried to simplify how I tracked them so I put it by counting the colored combine scores 0/0/0/0, or Red/Blue/Black/Green. These are eyeball everages because the numbers were close enough that it wasnt a problem. If someone didnt do the drill I disregarded it.

CB	40 yd Dash	Solecismic	Strength	Agility	Broad Jump	Position
Baseline	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/67	0/0/12/53	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/67
S	40 yd Dash	Solecismic	Strength	Agility	Broad Jump	Position
Baseline	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/67	0/0/11/61	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/74

Here is the data for CB and S with maximized at each configurable rating:

CB	40 yd Dash	Solecismic	Strength	Agility	Broad Jum	Position
Run Def	0/0/0/65	0/0/13/54	0/0/38/26	62/2/0/0	0/0/0/64	0/0/0/67
M2M	1/56/9/0	0/0/12/55	0/0/38/27	0/0/0/66	0/0/0/66	0/0/0/67
Zone	0/1/63/0	0/0/13/54	0/0/37/26	0/0/0/64	0/0/0/64	0/17/49/0
INT	0/0/0/65	0/0/15/52	0/0/35/29	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/65	0/15/50/0
PR	0/0/0/64	0/0/0/67	0/0/14/54	0/0/0/64	0/1/61/2	0/0/0/67
KR	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/67	0/0/12/53	0/0/0/65	0/2/62/1	0/0/0/66
END>	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/67	0/0/12/52	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/67
ST	0/0/0/64	0/0/1/66	0/0/13/52	0/0/0/64	0/0/0/64	0/0/0/67
intelligence	0/0/0/65	0/56/11/0	0/0/14/50	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/65	0/0/0/66

S	40 yd Dash	Solecismic	Strength	Agility	Broad Jump	Position
Run Def	0/0/0/74	0/0/14/60	0/0/43/31	68/4/0/0	0/0/0/73	0/0/0/74
M2M	0/69/2/0	0/0/10/64	0/0/44/28	0/0/0/71	0/0/0/71	0/0/0/74
Zone	0/2/70/0	0/0/10/64	0/0/39/33	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/14/60/0
INT	0/0/0/72	0/0/10/64	0/0/43/29	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/15/59/0
PR	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/74	0/0/12/60	0/0/0/72	0/4/66/0	0/0/0/74
KR	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/74	0/0/11/61	0/0/0/72	0/3/68/0	0/0/0/73
END	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/0/11/62	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/74
ST	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/0/13/60	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/74
intelligence	0/0/0/72	1/59/13/0	0/0/13/57	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/72	0/0/0/74

40-yard Dash – By looking at the chart it seems fairly obvious the only affected ratings are M2M and Zone. By maximizing both ratings we immediately get 90% of the players in red and the rest in blue. This seems to be a majority of the M2M rating while Zone also splits with Position drill.


Conclusion - 40-yard time = M2M/Zone, more emphasis on M2M. Maybe 70/30


Solecismic – I was very surprised to see that the Solecismic Test affects most Run D, M2M, Zone and Interceptions. Most people assume that it affects Play Diagnosis and that is more than likely true since no one score a zero on the test. As seen above the highest correlation is definitely intelligence (duh). To see the correlation I maxed out all the skills that affect the test except intelligence since they seem to carry equal weight. The results showed about 0/10/60/1 average for both positions (total of CB and S) and it looked pretty consistent.


Conclusion – Solecismic score affects Intelligence, Run D, M2M, Zone, Interceptions and more than likely Play Diagnosis with a 60/10/10/10/10/ and 10 for Play Diagnosis.


Bench Press – Very similar to Solecismic in that affects Run D, M2M, Zone, Interceptions. There was always about 10 guys at both S and CB that were in the black when all configurable values were set at zero. I believe that these are Bump and Run defense and Punishing Hitting. By maximizing Run D, M2M, Zone, and Interceptions I get at least 70% in Blue or red and the rest in black. I figure the rest of the strength values are generated by the draft class to fill in BnR and PH.


Conclusion - Bench press = Run D, M2M, Zone, Interceptions 20/20/20/20 and the last 20 is split between BnR and Punishing Hitting.

Agility – This was a pretty cut and dry test. By maximizing Run Defense, almost every defensive player (not just DB) went Red.


Conclusion - Agility = Run Defense for all defensive players

Broad Jump – The only correlation I saw is with the KR/PR and it is pretty even. With both maxed out everyone was Red or blue. High score and low in one of the categories probably means an all world return man in the other category


Conclusion – Broad Jump = Kick/Punt Returning are the only affected ratings with a 50/50 impact.


Position Drill – This rating also had an even correlation. It seems even between Zone D and Interceptions. By maximizing both we get all reds and blues.


Conclusion – Position Drill = 50/50 split between Zone D/Interceptions.

My best guess on the DB ratings bars.

Run Defense	Agility (85), Bench(10), Solecismic(5)
M2M	40-yd Dash (85), Bench(10), Solecismic(5)
Zone	Position (45), 40-yd Dash (40), Bench(10), Solecismic(5)
Bump and Run	Bench (100)
Play Diagnosis	Solecismic (100)
Punishing Hitter	Bench (100)
INT	Position (85), Bench(10), Solecismic(5)
PR	Broad Jump (100)
KR	Broad Jump (100)
END	No Combine Correlation
ST	No Combine Correlation

Final Analysis – Many of these combines correlate to the same things at all DEFENSIVE positions (such as agility for Run D). When raising Endurance and Special Teams to the maximum, it had no affect on any combine scores. They seem generated with the draft class and you will have to look at the bars.

***********

Once I finished the Defensive backs I wanted to do the same thing for the rest of the defensive positions. I have all the same data but do not want to add a whole bunch of charts when I can just what I think make up the individual ratings. Also on both position groups below PR strength, BnR and Play Diagnosis were not adjustable but showed a presence on the baseline file that is zeroed in all attributes.

Linebackers:

Run Defense	Agility (85), Bench (5), Sole(5), BJ (5)
PR Technique	40-yd Dash (85), Bench (5), Sole(5), BJ (5)
M2M	Broad Jump (90), Bench(5), Solecismic(5)
Zone	Position (85), Bench (5), Sole(5), BJ (5)
Bump and Run	Bench (100)
PR Strength	Bench (100)
Play Diagnosis	Solecismic (100)
Punishing Hitting	Bench (100)
END	No Combine Correlation
ST	No Combine Correlation

Notes – Linebackers are rated in Interceptions. Just raising Zone only made up half the Positions score and maxing both INT and Zone gave me red numbers in position score.

Defensive Linemen:

Run Defense	Agility (90), Bench (5), Sole(5)
PR Technique	40-yd Dash (90), Bench (5), Sole(5)
PR Strength	Broad Jump (90), Bench(5), Solecismic(5)
Play Diagnosis	Solecismic (100)
Punishing Hitting	Bench (100)
END	Broad Jump (100)

Notes – When I adjusted coverage ratings (M2M, Zone, INT), it affected the Solecismic score. This indicates to me that you need a HIGH Solecismic score if you intend to change their position (i.e. DE to LB) in order to have coverage abilities.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by bignej

Broad Jump – The only correlation I saw is with the KR/PR and it is pretty even. With both maxed out everyone was Red or blue. High score and low in one of the categories probably means an all world return man in the other category


Conclusion – Broad Jump = Kick/Punt Returning are the only affected ratings with a 50/50 impact.

Yup. This is why so many DBs have low broad jump scores.

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Yup. This is why so many DBs have low broad jump scores.

Do you think this is the same with WRs? I'm trying to find something to help me locate kick returners quickly when going through the draft. I really think that there should be a seperate pulldown option for players rated with kick return ability.

[azjoe_02]

Very helpful info bignej....Thanks for posting this.

[bignej]

Originally Posted by Tasan

Do you think this is the same with WRs? I'm trying to find something to help me locate kick returners quickly when going through the draft. I really think that there should be a seperate pulldown option for players rated with kick return ability.

I think its true for WRs but not for RBs. RBs don't have an indicator as far as I can tell.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Tasan

Do you think this is the same with WRs? I'm trying to find something to help me locate kick returners quickly when going through the draft. I really think that there should be a seperate pulldown option for players rated with kick return ability.

Someday I'll get my "Sort by Bar" back into DraftAnalyzer...

[Hammer]

Excellent study. Reading this has got me thinking RBs hidden avoid fumbles rating must be linked to something, or maybe a couple of things, in the combine. One of my pet hates going into a draft is not having any idea of a players ability in this crucial attribute.

[3ric]

Wow, this is good stuff.

[bignej]

Added LB and DL

[Icy]

Great stuff, thanks!

[Anthony]

thank you for this great info.

[totoro]

Great info thanks for sharing.

[Fonzie]

Wonderful contribution. Many thanks!

[Sgran]

I was 100% wrong about agility, which I thought must be related to pass rush technique, at least for d-lineman. crazy

[Eaglesfan27]

Great info. Thanks for posting it!

[nfg22]

Thanks for being open and helong us out!

[aston217]

Sorry to grave-dig, but I must be completely clueless and have NO idea how to read that table.

Can someone help me out and step me through it? Let's start with row 1, column 1. For CBs, the column name is 40 yard dash. The row name is Run Def. The data is 0/0/0/65

Huh? Are these the four colored combine numbers? That can't be right though. 0 dash, 0 sole, 0 strength, 65 agility?

[bignej]

Originally Posted by aston217

Sorry to grave-dig, but I must be completely clueless and have NO idea how to read that table.

Can someone help me out and step me through it? Let's start with row 1, column 1. For CBs, the column name is 40 yard dash. The row name is Run Def. The data is 0/0/0/65

Huh? Are these the four colored combine numbers? That can't be right though. 0 dash, 0 sole, 0 strength, 65 agility?

It was the color of the combine scores in the draft list. Red/Blue/Black/Green based off whatever attribute I edited. In that in example, it means the 40yd dash has no effect on Run Defense. In the test, I turned every attribute to zero except run defense. The 40yd dash times were all green because they represented 0.

Edit: Forgot to add that the 65 represented the number of players in the pool at that position.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Someday I'll get my "Sort by Bar" back into DraftAnalyzer...

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

What, you can't click that column? Or is it a specific bar you need sorting by?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

What, you can't click that column? Or is it a specific bar you need sorting by?

Ah yes, I see, a specific bar (like kick returning). We'll see.

[aston217]

Ohhhh ok, thanks for the explanation. Makes sense now.

gstelmack - I always thought it would be great if you could have various filters so certain positions wouldn't be displayed at a time (i.e, display only QBs, only RBs, etc). As well as or in addition to a player search function. Not sure how feasible that is.