Kick/Punt Return Ratings

[rustic85]

What's up with the kick return and punt return ratings?

Hester at 0/0 and 0/12? Parrish at 0/2 and 0/0?

Does this essentially eliminate the return game from FOF? I mean, Hester at 0's is hard to deal with!

[redfox000]

Really? He should be at 100/100 on both.

[Ben E Lou]

http://www.solecismic.com/faq/index.php

Originally Posted by Solecismic FAQ

I don't agree with the ratings for (insert player name here). Why did you give him a poor rating for (insert category name here)?

The core ratings are hidden in Front Office Football. Your scouts provide their own estimates of the value of each player. These may not be accurate, depending on the strengths and weaknesses of that scouting staff. So the first thing you should do is check the ratings for your scouting staff.

In addition, whenever you start a new game of Front Office Football, a portion of the ratings are randomly generated. This percentage is about 5-10 percent for established veterans and up to 50 percent for rookies. This is done to maximize the replay value of the game. What's the fun of knowing that Peyton Manning will always be a superstar every time you play?

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

http://www.solecismic.com/faq/index.php

Nice rtfm, but 50% of 0 is still 0 so I'm not sure how this is relevant unless you're thinking its all scouting error, which seems unlikely.

[Ben E Lou]

No, that's not what I'm thinking.

[rustic85]

I appreciate the response; thanks.

I have a hard time believing that is the root cause, however. My Scout is rated as Good for Recievers and Very Good for Young Talent. Both Hester and Parrish fall into those categories. I see your point if they were some reasonable % off the mark, but 0s seems way too far off to be a scouting misjudgement.

I know this isn't the biggest deal in the world, but we've all seen this year how big an impact the return game can have.

I should also point out that I'm not complaining about Hester specifically. He is just such an easy example. I don't think anyone would argue that he is the best returner out there so to see him at 0s is fairly ridiculous. He should be at or near the top of the roster file in these categories. Right now random free agents are higher than he is with scores like 18, etc. Its the relativity of the thing that prompts this question.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

No, that's not what I'm thinking.

*whew*

[Ben E Lou]

Ah, my mistake. From your first post, I thought you just wanted to bitch, not know the root cause. This is probably the root cause...

Originally Posted by csv.txt

Column BA: Punt Returning - ability to return punts.
Column BB: Kickoff Returning - ability to return kickoffs.

Columns BA and BB contain nothing but zeroes. The only populated columns for specific ratings in players.csv other than the "overall rating" column are QB style and scramble frequency. All other players are given an overall rating only. The other ratings come from the overall rating, it appears.

[Ben E Lou]

The more broad answer is that FOF is not really in any way set up to be a replay game.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

The more broad answer is that FOF is not really in any way set up to be a replay game.

Ding.

[rustic85]

Sorry for being potentially dense here...

So the return ratings are a random spin-off of the overall rating? So the top tier recievers are most likely to be the best returners as well? That is a rough one, since it then means exposing them to injury as opposed to having a return specialist. Is this a valid line of thought?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by rustic85

Sorry for being potentially dense here...

No, the questions in this post are good ones.

So the return ratings are a random spin-off of the overall rating?

I don't know that for certain, and I'm not sure you'll get a great answer to that here. There doesn't appear to be a large contingent of experienced FOFers who use the default rosters enough to answer that sort of question.

So the top tier recievers are most likely to be the best returners as well?

That would be my guess there for the initial "real" player file. That isn't necessaril true with game-generated draftees, though. In my long-term fictional career, for example, the highest-rated punt returner (94 rating, averages 10.3 yards per punt return in his career) is only a 45/45 WR. On the team I'm running, I have a 32/47 RB who averaged 15.8 yards per punt return (even though he had no touchdowns). That being said, a number of the better KR/PR guys are top-tier WR/RB/CB. However, from a "realism" standpoint, I'm not sure that's terrible. With the speed Randy Moss has, he could probably be a top-tier return man. They just don't use him there. You definitely have the option to use a "return specialist."

That is a rough one, since it then means exposing them to injury as opposed to having a return specialist. Is this a valid line of thought?

That would make good "football sense," but I've seen very little evidence that would indicate that a return man is more prone to injury in FOF. Sure, because he's on the field for a few more plays, his chance of injury increases just because of that, but I don't get the impression that the guy returning the ball is more prone to injury than anyone else on the field.

[rustic85]

Awesome info - many thanks!!!!!

I feel resolved now...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That would make good "football sense," but I've seen very little evidence that would indicate that a return man is more prone to injury in FOF. Sure, because he's on the field for a few more plays, his chance of injury increases just because of that, but I don't get the impression that the guy returning the ball is more prone to injury than anyone else on the field.

i use my WR - the highest rated WR in my league, btw - as my return man for both punt and kick returns. i have yet to see an example of a guy getting injured on a return. thus, you're doing a disservice to your team by not using your best possible guy - regardless of how valuable he is to your team - to be your return specialist.

plus, it really helps his whole "All-purpose yards" stats.

[Subby]

The only danger to using a great player for special teams duty is if he has a low endurance - the more plays they spend on the field for ST, the less time they will see on offense.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i use my WR - the highest rated WR in my league, btw - as my return man for both punt and kick returns. i have yet to see an example of a guy getting injured on a return. thus, you're doing a disservice to your team by not using your best possible guy - regardless of how valuable he is to your team - to be your return specialist.

plus, it really helps his whole "All-purpose yards" stats.

I lost my 85/85 CB, who is 100 in PR, in the RDFL when he was returning. May of cost me a SB.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Subby

The only danger to using a great player for special teams duty is if he has a low endurance - the more plays they spend on the field for ST, the less time they will see on offense.

Do we know this for sure, or is it an assumption? Given how we think the every-play dice-roll works, I tend to doubt this, but I'm not certain of it.

[stevew]

Does the PR/KR rating have any effect on avoiding fumbles returning kicks? I've pretty much started just putting my fastest guy/best athlete back there, assuming that I don't have a viable returner.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Hammer

May of cost me a SB.

Quoted for QS's benefit.


As for the issue at hand, I don't know about endurance. Ted Hertz is the 4th leading KR in IHOF as yards go, and he's been a pretty good WR as well. His high for KR for a year is 36 - not much more than two per game. 7th on the list is RB Ronnie Kemp, who does have pretty decent end, and was also run ragged with carries. The past two years I've used my starting RB for KR (and last year for PR), and he's had 221 carries each year. It is a *little* down from three seasons ago (238), but that could be noise. I think he'd just be doomed to around that many carries regardless with his apparent lack of stamina (28).

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by stevew

Does the PR/KR rating have any effect on avoiding fumbles returning kicks?

I would assume that still connects to the now-hidden "avoid fumbles" rating.

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Quoted for QS's benefit.

Thanks, don't know what I'd do without gnashing my teeth again today. At least justice prevailed.

[Ben E Lou]

More on KR/PR "role players"...

I was just doing some digging around in the stats of my SP career (through 36 seasons now) and noticed that there's a mixture at the top. The top KO returner in my league's history (29.2avg, 5 TDs) was a RB who only started 10 games in his 8-year career. The top 20 or so runs the gamut, from a CB who started 112 games in 8 seasons to five or six guys with 20 starts or less.

As far as punt returns, the top guy is the RB I referenced earlier in this thread. He has only one career start, and that was due to injury. As with kick returns, the top punt return group is a mixture of part-timers, full-timers, and rare starters.