End of Game AI

[larrymcg421]

Not trying to put a damper on Freedom Day or anything, and I'm usually someone who "drinks the koolaid" anyways, but this end of game sequence in the WOOF playoffs really bugged me.

Lowcountry gets the ball back at their own 20, down 23-17 and with no timeouts left.

Lowcountry: Strong formation, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 with dime personnel and 3-deep zone coverage, keying aggressively on the pass. 1-10-LWC20 (4Q: 02:01) Morris Marrero pass fell incomplete, intended for WR Cornelius Bell. DE Quinn Craig hurried the quarterback into a bad throw.

Official time out for the two-minute warning.

Lowcountry: I formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 with dime personnel and weak-side man, otherwise cover-7 zone coverage, keying aggressively on the pass. 2-10-LWC20 (4Q: 01:52) Jamal Stinnett ran a draw inside the left guard for 1 yard. Tackled by S Deron Barker.

Lowcountry: Single-Back formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 with dime personnel and strong-side man, otherwise cover-7 zone coverage, keying aggressively on the pass. 3-9-LWC21 (4Q: 01:30) Corwin Bumpers ran inside the left tackle for 1 yard. Tackled by DE Fernando Glenn.

4-8-LWC22 (4Q: 00:59) J.C. Toney punted 39 yards. Jim Kerr returned the kick 4 yards to the WBA43. Tackled by Jamal Stinnett.

Wilkes-Barre: I formation, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 and 3-deep zone coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 1-10-WBA43 (4Q: 00:48) J.T. Ackerman dropped to one knee for -1 yards.

Wilkes-Barre: Pro formation, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 2-11-WBA42 (4Q: 00:04) J.T. Ackerman dropped to one knee for -1 yards.

[sovereignstar]

Was the punter close to breaking any single-season or career records? Sorry, I got nothing.

[SFL Cat]

Maybe the Lowcountry coach was hoping that Wilkes-Barre would be so surprised by this tactic that the punt returner might muff the punt or something, giving Lowcountry the ball in Wilkes-Barre territory...an insanely brilliant, if somewhat low percentage, call.

[RedKingGold]

No, you're not alone larrymcg. Playcalling by the AI when the "within two minutes" mark checks in is atrocious.

It's especially worse at the end of a half than at the end of regulation.

[MalcPow]

I'm guessing because SD has a '0' in the 'go to hurry up offense with X minutes remaing per score behind' box in his gameplan adjustments. It's to prevent the bombs away stuff that happens in the hurry up offense, hoping there's some chance you can move the ball down field in your normal offense to get a score. (I have my gameplan set this way as well, and punted twice in the last couple minutes against AC last week.) The drawback obviously is that you run your normal offense, and you don't go for it on 4th. In my experience with the hurry up offense, it's worth that trade off.

I'm quoting myself from the WOOF board here. Not that this explanation speaks all that highly of the end of game AI, but I think it explains what the likely 'cause' of this issue was.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by MalcPow

I'm quoting myself from the WOOF board here. Not that this explanation speaks all that highly of the end of game AI, but I think it explains what the likely 'cause' of this issue was.

I think it explains why the AI called running plays, but the decision to punt is completely illogical.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think it explains why the AI called running plays, but the decision to punt is completely illogical.

I doubt it. I DONT have it set to 0, and my offense does the same thing running. Here's an example(although running was quite effective):

1-10-FRE20 (2Q: 00:58) Dan Bensen scrambled for 20 yards. Tackled by CB Carlos Hines.

1-10-FRE40 (2Q: 00:34) Horace Linegar ran inside the right guard for 16 yards. Tackled by S Cory Hitchcock. Key block delivered by Dale Moore.
(2Q: 00:34) Fresno called a time out.

1-10-MEM44 (2Q: 00:25) Phillip Giordano ran a draw inside the right guard for 5 yards. Tackled by DE Kennedy Foster. Key block delivered by Gabe Black.
(2Q: 00:25) Fresno called a time out.

2-5-MEM39 (2Q: 00:17) PENALTY: Fresno was called for a False Start.

2-10-MEM44 (2Q: 00:17) Dan Bensen pass completed to TE Harris Hartl for 6 yards. Tackled by S Shannon Fredrick. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.
(2Q: 00:17) Fresno called a time out.

3-4-MEM38 (2Q: 00:07) Albert Sinard attempted a 55 yard field goal and missed wide to the left.

Atleast we used our time outs.. I've seen this same exact scenario and the team doesn't even use the TOs, and then uses them when the other team gets the ball back.


Here's another example from my MP league(both are this week), team owner does not have it set to 0

Official time out for the two-minute warning.

3-2-CHN46 (2Q: 02:00) Darrin Bryant ran a counterplay inside the right tackle for 2 yards.

1-10-CHN44 (2Q: 01:38) Steve Clancy scrambled for 4 yards. Tackled by CB Timothy Wiggins.

2-6-CHN40 (2Q: 01:22) Darrin Bryant ran inside the left guard for 5 yards.

3-1-CHN35 (2Q: 01:03) Cornelius Holmes ran around right end for 0 yards.

4-1-CHN35 (2Q: 00:45) Martin Bernstein attempted a 52 yard field goal and missed short of the crossbar.

The AI is awful. I'm not even sure what its trying to do. In some situations it feels like its just trying to get into field goal range, which it shouldn't be trying to do. It should be trying to drive as far as it can and then kick a field goal. It always seems to slow down when it hits that 55 yard range.

I wonder if that "Longest field goal at end of half" setting is actually the goal for the offense....

[MalcPow]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think it explains why the AI called running plays, but the decision to punt is completely illogical.

I agree, but I don't think the game's logic makes a distinction. Unless you're in hurry up, it's not going to alter your 4th down settings and I doubt SD has things set to go for it very often from his own 20. Obviously it should work better, I'm just trying to pinpoint what happened because I think this particular incident is attributable to how a feature works and not just some faulty endgame code somewhere.

[stevew]

It's skydogs fault for hiring norv turner as coach.

[Ben E Lou]

MalcPow came close to nailing it, just one minute off. It's the fault of bad end-game logic, but not the end-game logic that some of you are thinking. Because of the throw-the-bomb-on-every-down late-game issue, I was using 1 minute per score behind for the hurry-up setting. Given how it will throw bomb after bomb only in need of 30 to 40 yards for a FG (and with three timeouts and 2 minutes to play) in hurry-up, I find eschewing hurry-up until the situation is truly desperate to be more successful in the long run, although in the short term it can cause this very situation. *shurg*