Penalty decision making discussion

[Leonidas]

This is kind of a pet peeve of mine about the game with no right or wrong answer, but it's a common enough occurence that I'd like to see what others think and if I am wrong to be annoyed by it.

The scenario is the game accepting penalties in situations I wouldn't. The common one bugging me is on first down I gain 7 or 8 yards and there is a 5 yard penalty called on the D. The AI will accept the penalty every single time. If I were coaching, I'd take second and 2 over first and five every time. And it seems like every time I do this I come back with a penalty of my own, an incompletion, a one yard, or a loss so I am in worse shape than I would have been.

A similar scenario is defensive holding here. So I could be second and two, but the AI accepts the five yard holding to get first and ten three yards back. I'd much rather face second and two or even three than a first and ten situation. It's like the difference in baseball between having the pitcher at 3-0 or seeing the first pitch of an at bat. IMO the opinion the offense has a huge advantage on second and short.

Am I wrong to be annoyed by this? Is the game right in taking those penalties?

[JetsIn06]

I would take the 1st down every single time, personally.

[MartinD]

I feel the same way about this - have seen this several times in my MP games where my offence picks up 8 or 9 on first down and the AI takes 1st and 5 instead of 2nd and 1 or 2. While others may disagree, I know that I'd prefer a 2nd and 1 to a 1st and 5... I don't mind the penalty as much after a 7-yard gain, though - not as much difference between 1st and 5 and 2nd and 3 (IMHO).

Martin

[Sgran]

What's wrong with first and 5? That's 3 downs to get 15 feet. And let's say your next play is a long ball that falls incomplete. Would you really rather have 3rd and 2 than 2nd and 5? And if you get another penalty, would you really rather have second and 7 than first and 10? I think most offenses can get more than 3 yards per play.
I think you just want your players to get the stats.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

I would take the 1st down every single time, personally.

Yup.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Sgran

What's wrong with first and 5? That's 3 downs to get 15 feet. And let's say your next play is a long ball that falls incomplete. Would you really rather have 3rd and 2 than 2nd and 5? And if you get another penalty, would you really rather have second and 7 than first and 10? I think most offenses can get more than 3 yards per play.
I think you just want your players to get the stats.

Um.....what?

[Sgran]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Um.....what?

We're discussing the logic in the game behind accepting penalties. you might want to read the first post.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Sgran

We're discussing the logic in the game behind accepting penalties. you might want to read the first post.

No, I understand that. It's just that your post above made little-to-no sense.

Perhaps re-read it and state your position better?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I think your decision can change depending on field position, score, time of game, etc. But I could often see the better result being the 1st and 5. Essentially, that's a free 5 yards. Whereas on 2nd and 2, you actually have traded a down to get an extra 3 yards. I'm not sure that's always a wise trade. One botched snap or incompletion and you are in must get first down situation after that.

[Sgran]

Okay, I admit that my original post was a bit stream-of-consciousy. My main point is that having a free down is a nice luxory, so I would give up three yards (or four even) for a free shot at a big gain.

[Leonidas]

I understand it's a philosophical question between 2nd and 2 and first and 5. Personally I like to apply the logic of how many yards per play do I need to average before fourth down and the lower mark is how I'd decide the penalty. So between 1st and 5 and 2nd and 2, 2nd and 2 gets the nod because you need one yard per play while on first and five you need 1.67 yards per play.

Nobody has addressed the second part of my question, why the game takes the defensive holding penalty to get a first and 10 instead of a second and 2 three yards farther down the field. Do the first down guys still think that's the right call? The game will make it every time.