Position switch DE --> LB

remper · 09-21-2008, 12:54 AM

I recently drafted Carr in a MP league and have to make a tough decision.

I'm looking for some advice on a position change. I would ultimate like to be able to keep him at DE, but he will not gain any more weight. So, given that fact, this fellow looks to be the perfect weight for a MLB/OLB. He sure as hell won't make for a good DE at that weight...

My scout tells me that when switching him to MLB "There's reason to believe his ratings will increase." But when I make the switch his rating drops to something like 6/50 and his development shows 0% I've read in another thread that the rating is masked so we can't peek ahead, but this extreme drop gives me pause.

When looking at switching him to OLB it says he should maintain his current rating, but again when the switch is made he has an extreme drop. So I'm scratching my head a little with this guy.

Are the ratings shown after a position switch (before it is simmed) just complete BS? Should I make the move?

Izulde · 09-21-2008, 12:57 AM

what does it say about experience?

sovereignstar · 09-21-2008, 12:58 AM

Yes, the pre-simmed post-change ratings are bunk. Experience should be about the same judging by the colors.

remper · 09-21-2008, 01:07 AM

If I change him to MLB it says he would have a slight experience reduction.

If I change to OLB it says roughly the same experience.

MartinD · 09-21-2008, 02:36 AM

DE to LB is a change that can work, but there are a couple of drawbacks:

- DEs tend to have very limited pass coverage skills (in my experience), which makes them less useful as linebackers (unless you want a pass-rushing WLB in the 3-4)
- the experience issue - will usually have some experience at OLB, but will often be starting from scratch if you want them to play ILB

Martin

remper · 09-21-2008, 09:11 AM

That sounds about right to me. I'll probably move him to OLB. Either way, he's going to be a project that will take a while to develop fully. I don't necessarily run the 3-4 right now, but maybe if he makes enough progress I can make the switch from 4-3 in a few years, or trade him to someone looking for a pass rusher for their 3-4.

The alternative of keeping him at DE... Anyone have success with a DE this far underweight?

QuikSand · 09-21-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remper

He sure as hell won't make for a good DE at that weight...

Based on what?

remper · 09-21-2008, 10:10 AM

I thought I read something somewhere that stated essentially that if a player is way underweight at his position he will not perform at his overall rating

Ben E Lou · 09-21-2008, 10:33 AM

Remper, there's a *very* wide range between this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by remper

...he will not perform at his overall rating...

...and this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by remper

...

He sure as hell won't make for a good DE at that weight...

Dave Hansen · 09-22-2008, 08:25 AM

Wasn't the Vike's DE Alan Page undersized?

All his test scores are better than average for a DE. His 40 yard dash and agility scores are better than average for the position and tend to highlight his good pass rush technique potential. He may not be a real run stopper, but a good pass rusher from the DE position is a bonus.

I'd leave him at DE...as a late second round draft choice...do you recall how many DE's were ranked higher than Carr?

surlyc · 09-22-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hansen

Wasn't the Vike's DE Alan Page undersized?

He was pretty tiny at the end of his career, in comparison to modern ends. About 230lbs, I believe.

But it wasn't like he was ever the MVP or anything...

Legend.

Having said that, I've not had a successful end at that weight in FOF. But there's a first time for everything... I'd never had a QB average over 70% completions over a 17 year career before my current game. How things change.

Subby · 09-22-2008, 04:17 PM

DE Billy Brentley is similarly undersized and has had a solid career.

stevew · 09-22-2008, 04:25 PM

Robert Mathis says hi.

stevew · 09-22-2008, 04:29 PM

dola-
I've never bothered to even look at weights. Is this something I'm just missing out on?

Subby · 09-22-2008, 04:32 PM

Jim has said it matters but I've never seen any evidence of it. I don't even bother weight training any more unless I am trying to turn a S into a CB.

stevew · 09-23-2008, 01:07 AM

I would personally leave the guy as a DE. If you switch him to OLB, you've basically wasted a pick here, as he's not likely to be good at all.

Ben E Lou · 09-23-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Jim has said it matters but I've never seen any evidence of it. I don't even bother weight training any more unless I am trying to turn a S into a CB.

I tend to believe that it matters. Based on experience and testing, I don't believe it matters enough to pay close attention to it unless you're position-switching.

Firefly · 09-26-2008, 08:35 PM

Sounds like an interesting situation. Keep us posted. Maybe his ratings will rise right after you switch him -and by that I mean the following sim.

remper · 09-27-2008, 01:12 PM

I decided to leave him at DE. I will continue to update his progress, but I won't be able to provide solid stats right now. He will be a backup to two very solid DEs I have right now. After training camp and preseason he stands at 27/60 overall.

Coincidentally, I have a very similarly undersized DE like Brentley in Elvis Dumervil (5'11" 260) whom led the league in sacks last season.

People here seem to be saying that the difference between 260 and 248 at DE is not as significant a difference as I first thought. It'll be interesting to see the progression.

mmarra82 · 09-30-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I tend to believe that it matters. Based on experience and testing, I don't believe it matters enough to pay close attention to it unless you're position-switching.

I thought size and weight only came into play when you looked to change a player's position?

Ben E Lou · 09-30-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmarra82

I thought size and weight only came into play when you looked to change a player's position?

The developer made it quite clear that it comes into play in performance, too. I'm suggesting that it's a small enough effect that it's not worth taking into account. I'd rather have a 5'8" 180 pound WR who is 65/65 than a 6'4" 215 guy who is 55/55, in other words.

09-21-2008, 12:57 AM	#2
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	what does it say about experience? __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

09-22-2008, 04:17 PM	#12
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	DE Billy Brentley is similarly undersized and has had a solid career. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

09-22-2008, 04:32 PM	#15
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Jim has said it matters but I've never seen any evidence of it. I don't even bother weight training any more unless I am trying to turn a S into a CB. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

09-21-2008, 12:58 AM	#3
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	Yes, the pre-simmed post-change ratings are bunk. Experience should be about the same judging by the colors.

09-21-2008, 01:07 AM	#4
remper Mascot Join Date: Jan 2008	If I change him to MLB it says he would have a slight experience reduction. If I change to OLB it says roughly the same experience.

09-21-2008, 02:36 AM	#5
MartinD High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: East Lothian, Scotland	DE to LB is a change that can work, but there are a couple of drawbacks: - DEs tend to have very limited pass coverage skills (in my experience), which makes them less useful as linebackers (unless you want a pass-rushing WLB in the 3-4) - the experience issue - will usually have some experience at OLB, but will often be starting from scratch if you want them to play ILB Martin

09-21-2008, 09:11 AM	#6
remper Mascot Join Date: Jan 2008	That sounds about right to me. I'll probably move him to OLB. Either way, he's going to be a project that will take a while to develop fully. I don't necessarily run the 3-4 right now, but maybe if he makes enough progress I can make the switch from 4-3 in a few years, or trade him to someone looking for a pass rusher for their 3-4. The alternative of keeping him at DE... Anyone have success with a DE this far underweight?

09-21-2008, 10:10 AM	#8
remper Mascot Join Date: Jan 2008	I thought I read something somewhere that stated essentially that if a player is way underweight at his position he will not perform at his overall rating

09-22-2008, 08:25 AM	#10
Dave Hansen n00b Join Date: Dec 2006	Wasn't the Vike's DE Alan Page undersized? All his test scores are better than average for a DE. His 40 yard dash and agility scores are better than average for the position and tend to highlight his good pass rush technique potential. He may not be a real run stopper, but a good pass rusher from the DE position is a bonus. I'd leave him at DE...as a late second round draft choice...do you recall how many DE's were ranked higher than Carr?

09-22-2008, 04:25 PM	#13
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Robert Mathis says hi.

09-22-2008, 04:29 PM	#14
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	dola- I've never bothered to even look at weights. Is this something I'm just missing out on?

09-23-2008, 01:07 AM	#16
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I would personally leave the guy as a DE. If you switch him to OLB, you've basically wasted a pick here, as he's not likely to be good at all.

09-26-2008, 08:35 PM	#18
Firefly High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2007	Sounds like an interesting situation. Keep us posted. Maybe his ratings will rise right after you switch him -and by that I mean the following sim.

09-27-2008, 01:12 PM	#19
remper Mascot Join Date: Jan 2008	I decided to leave him at DE. I will continue to update his progress, but I won't be able to provide solid stats right now. He will be a backup to two very solid DEs I have right now. After training camp and preseason he stands at 27/60 overall. Coincidentally, I have a very similarly undersized DE like Brentley in Elvis Dumervil (5'11" 260) whom led the league in sacks last season. People here seem to be saying that the difference between 260 and 248 at DE is not as significant a difference as I first thought. It'll be interesting to see the progression.

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