FOF4: suggestions/bugs to be fixed for 3rd patch

[cthomer5000]

Maybe it'd be a good time to collect everyone's thoughts about the game? It's been out for a while, it seems to be pretty stable, but I know some problems still exist. Beyond that, I think there may be some simple additions that could be made for the 3rd patch (with it's unknown release date).

Suggestions:

When starting the game we are given two options in regard to coaching:

A. Turn hiring/firing off. You are stuck with the team you choose forever.

B. Keep hiring/firing on. When a computer team deems you worthy of hiring, you can switch teams.

suggestion: A third option, one in which all teams are amenable to hiring you every season. You can freely jump from team to team every year. This seems like it would be easy to implement. Also, it would be a big help to people who like to sim some seasons and develop a "mature" league before jumping into the game and coaching a team "for real."



suggestion: How about being able to see coaches' records season-by-season. Right now I can see a coach is 48-62 all time, but I have no idea how he came to have that record. Did he have two 0-16 seasons before doing well? Are his teams generally consistent, or inconsistent? These things would help when hiring coaches, and add some depth to the staff portion of the game. I would like to see the same for scouts.

[cthomer5000]

there was a reason I wanted to start this thread.

More complaints/suggestions:

Individual Statistics. In FOF2001, you had the option at looking at either 'season' or 'career' stats here, and the career option has been removed. This was always very useful to me when looking at the free agent market. I could see that the active leader in rushing was available, or when looking for an emergency player to add to the team would often take who ever the most experienced player available at the position. If many of my players were going to injured reserve I would generally sign Jeff George or Cris Carter types who had garnered tons of stats at their positions but were currently out of the league. Some may argue this isn't necessary, but I found the ability to look at the active career leaders both practical and helpful in becoming immersed in the fictional league.

Box Scores. Why do they have to be so annoying to get to? Now rather than going to a "box score" menu selection you have 2 painful options.

1. Open up the simulation window, go back to whatever week it was and click on the box icon.

2. Pull up a team schedule and click on the box from there. Also, this is the only was you can acces box scores from previous seasons. You have to find what team you want, then go the the drop-down box for year, then click on the box score. I thought the old system was fine. maybe both could co-exist?

Amount of overtime games/ties. Many, many games go to overtime, and a pretty high number of games end up as ties. Some have suggested there is a problem with the computer logic when managing the clock at the end of the 4th quarter or at the end of overtime. Personally i'm not sure since I don't watch the games or save the game logs. All I do know is that my league averages aboue 5 ties a season. Maybe this should be looked into?

[Fonzie]

Suggestion: How about an easy way to keep tabs on former players? I'd love to be able to identify them easily by, say, having them color coded (like starting players on your team). The logic should be fairly simple, as a check would simply have to be made for your team's abbreviation in the player's stats record. Just a thought.

I also would like to second cthomer's suggestions, especially the box scores recommendation.

[cthomer5000]

If the agent feature is such a big deal, can we please be able to see what players they have as clients? Right now we can only see how many players they have (and what teams they are on).

Can we see the ranking of agents? I see that they have a ranking amongst all agents, but why can't I see this anywhere?

[cthomer5000]

bug When starting a league before the year 2002, the draft pool will ALWAYS be empty when reaching the year 2002. If you don't import a draft, this is a game-killing bug.

It was discussed at length in this thread:
http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...&highlight=bug


suggestion Being able to designate starters, and have the depth chart filled in around them. Tons of people have made this suggestion. Either give us the ability to mark this on the players, or to "lock" them in place on the depth chart.

suggestion the ability to save/export/import game plan profiles. There are a lot of numbers to enter there, it would be nice to be able to save my "Run heavy/starting QB is injured" gameplan so I can import it when needed.

[DolphinFan1]

How about being able to continue the game if you are fired? Maybe the game would continue until another GM is gone and there is a spot available. This would have you simming the seasons until a job opens. At least you wouldn't have to start a new league.

[sabotai]

Hmm, I would have to disagree witht he box scores menu. I like to save all box scores, so after just one season of the "old way", it would basically be impossible to find the box score that I wanted. Now, I can go right to it. TO each his own. I'm not sure how hard it would be to just put the old way back in.

As for my suggestion, improve the the depth chart and change position logic. If I have 2 kick ass SILBs and horrible WILB, and I'm running a 3-4, the computer puts the horrible WILB as the starter. Even if there was a penelty for playing the guy out of position, he would still be 100 times better than the horrible WILBs I had.

And it bugs me that sometimes I can't change the SILB to a WILB. I played in a 3-4 in high school, there's not much different between the SILB and the WILB...

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by DolphinFan1
How about being able to continue the game if you are fired? Maybe the game would continue until another GM is gone and there is a spot available. This would have you simming the seasons until a job opens. At least you wouldn't have to start a new league.

I really like that suggestion. It would be fun hanging around and just hoping that some shitty team would offer you a chance to get back into the league.

[Bad-example]

1- A general clean up of the interface to reduce the number of scroll bars would be welcome.

2- A Game Summary screen. Instead of having to scroll down in the box score to see what happened in a game, perhaps a new screen could be added, or the old one tweaked, to make the game info easier to view.

3- When calling up the roster, I hate that the mouse wheel is set to scroll the team list. Any chance that the player roster itself could be the active default? It is just too easy to change teams by accident.

[Noble_Platypus]

Are there plans to gather all of the suggestions posted here and forward them to Jim? There are some very good ideas here that should warrent consideration for the new patch.

[Flame Eater]

Need to adjust the speed with which you can get fired after switching teams. I have a great career with Team A, then switch to Team B. If things don't go well...you get sacked quickly.

[Hyde]

Could the whole game be counted as one big bug?

[3ric]

Suggestion: that a double-click is required to open a player on the roster screen, and other screens listing players, rather than using single-click.

[ShovelMonkey]

In the career records section the players last year is being improperly displayed as the current year of the sim. ie.

In my game Emmitt Smith retired in 2005 but in the career records screen he is shown as retiring in the current year of my sim which is 2008.

[primelord]

Originally posted by Noble_Platypus
Are there plans to gather all of the suggestions posted here and forward them to Jim? There are some very good ideas here that should warrent consideration for the new patch.

I always gather the suggestions posted here and forward them to Jim.

[Noble_Platypus]

Thanks Prime. I know I have posted quit a bit on here about posible fixes and bugs. I'm glad the info that we all post is being relayed to Jim.

[Timbrownfan]

I just wanted to chime in to second Shovel Monkey's post. I know it's a tiny thing but it's actually quite annoying. I love to be able to see if I can take a player and have him break some Career record that hasn't been broken for like 20 years. Problem is most records just show the current year regardless of the year the player retired....

I would also love to see coaching profiles. I for one don't really enjoy digging into scouting reports and altering my gameplan every game but I would like to be able to hire a coach that specializes in West Coast Offense or Ball control offense. Would add to the importance or QB style also. You'd have to choose QB to fit the coaching style or vise versa. I'm sure some already do this if they like to pick apart the game plan but I barely even look at QB style since currently I rarely look at gameplan or scouting reports.

[cthomer5000]

bug gigantic talent discrepancies between computer-generated drafts and TCY imported ones.

In my TCY imported drafts, players available in the 6th round would have been 1st round picks in a computer generated draft. In the most recent draft I ran about 25 outside linebackers were selected before the first inside linebacker was taken (in the 7th round! ) The computer was taking lousy OLB's before outstanding ILB's. Even ones who specifially had ILB listed as their biggest need. simply put, what the fuck?

[cthomer5000]

suggestion ability to retitle championship game.

We can change team names, player names, positions, etc... But we're stuck with "front office bowl" and AL/NL conference names?

[Pyser]

got a few wishes:

- how bout being able to see what pick players were taken at in the 1st round? you cant tell if a first round pick from 3 years ago was taken with the 2nd pick in the draft, or the 32nd pick in the draft.

- also draft related...have your scouts be able to find a draftable player for you....by doing the "recommend" button in the trade screen, then searchnig for players with 1 yr experience.

- make players names clickable in more places. for example: season awards.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Pyser
got a few wishes:

- how bout being able to see what pick players were taken at in the 1st round? you cant tell if a first round pick from 3 years ago was taken with the 2nd pick in the draft, or the 32nd pick in the draft.

- also draft related...have your scouts be able to find a draftable player for you....by doing the "recommend" button in the trade screen, then searchnig for players with 1 yr experience.

- make players names clickable in more places. for example: season awards.

And what makes these all the more interesting is the fact that these were all features in FOF2001. Why Jim decided to remove them is beyond me.

[Easy Mac]

Originally posted by Pyser
got a few wishes:

- how bout being able to see what pick players were taken at in the 1st round? you cant tell if a first round pick from 3 years ago was taken with the 2nd pick in the draft, or the 32nd pick in the draft.

- also draft related...have your scouts be able to find a draftable player for you....by doing the "recommend" button in the trade screen, then searchnig for players with 1 yr experience.

- make players names clickable in more places. for example: season awards.

I know for sure the 1st one was taken out in order to clean up the interface.

I think he said the 3rd one would put too big a strain on the amount of memory the game would need to control.

[henry296]

Originally posted by Pyser
got a few wishes:



- also draft related...have your scouts be able to find a draftable player for you....by doing the "recommend" button in the trade screen, then searchnig for players with 1 yr experience.

The current/future ratings you see during the draft serve the same purpose as they are from your scout.

Todd

[QuikSand]

I think that one of the real problems with the game is the relative transparency of the "rookie uncertainty" feature.

I applaud Jim's intent to add much more uncertainty to player development. I never liked the fact that in FOF2, practically every single player developed exactly the eay he was projected to on draft day. That, in my opinion, greatly overvalues young unproven players (since you kno where they are going to be in time).

However, I think the system used in FOF4 has too many "tells." I have posted at some length about this, and I don't want to offer spoilers for those who don't want to know how all this works. However, I am to the point where my FOF4 drafting strategy is entrely based on meta-game decisions, and not much at all based on the criteria apparently used by the computer teams. I look at two guys, one rated highly and one rated poorly, and I know that the latter guy will turn out better - not because I'm a more astute judge of football talent, but because I've basically "cracked the code" in the computer game.

I realize that it's a fairly fine line - we might not want this to be a complete crapshoot, based on nothing but luck. But as it stands, for those who are paying attention, I think the balance sits too far in favor of the system being "beatable," which really undermines the competitive aspects of the game, for me.

I fear that this is an issue I will lose out on. To many players either haven't figured this out, or else have decided that they don't want to know about it. With that, we're left with another segment of players saying that the game is too hard and unpredictable as it is... and to the game designer, that can seem lik "balance." (If some people say it's too hard, and others say it's too easy... it must be just about right) I completely disagree.

Once again, I think the proper resolution to all this lies in meaningful skill levels. Make the highest skill level on where a savvy manager like me can't gain the same insghts that I do now... and let those who complain that the game is too hard play on a lower level. The game now doesn't seem to have meaningful skill levels - I have to think that practically everyone plays on the highest level, rendering the system pretty much moot.

Anyway - for my money, this is the single biggest issue in the current game. I realize there are various quirks and bugs that still get to us in one way or another, but if the gamer can sit down and consistently crush the opposition in assessing player development, the other issues of contract AI and gameplanning and so forth are simply secondary.

[Bee]

I agree with QS, but I would just add if this is addressed I'd like to see not only an effort in making it "harder" to figure out player development but also making it "easier" for the computer to figure it out. I for one get tired of seeing the computer drafting and signing free agents that are obviously inferior to other players available at the same position.

[QuikSand]

One smaller thing - nobody else seems to have this problem.

When I print FOF material to a text file, I now get a file that has the first letter of every line missing. So my roster lists all look like this:

ront Office Football: The Fourth Edition
ittle Rock Rollers Roster, Personality View
  
 Player                #   Pos  Leadrsp Intlgnc Loylty  PlayWn  FanPop  
ooldridge, Hardy       63  LT   51      62      72      33      100       
rawford, Duane         35  RB   19      55      23      93      98        
incoln, Ty             36  FS   66      28      66      79      90        
lick, Shaun            72  LDE  33      53      41      25      89        
amsey, Clifton         76  RDT  50      44      56      14      87        

It's not the end of te world, but if I wanted to write a dynasty report again, I'd be hard-pressed to keep manually re-adding all these characters. This first came up when I switched to a new computer, which used Windows 2000, for what that's worth.

[primelord]

Quik,

I have that same problem in Windows 2000.

[wheels]

please fix the timeout issue when calling your own plays for both cpu and human teams. it's a little better now, but not fixed. the cpu is still calling timeouts for me when i don't want to.

[dread]

My main problem with game is that players now take way too long to retire, playing into 17th season is much too common.

[Maple Leafs]

I'm still seeing poor AI clock management. For example, late in a half, calling timeout after third down and then punting. Why not run the clock? Why give your opponent more time with the ball?

Another related issue that I haven't seen mentioned but I seem to see all the time: it seems like when a team in in field goal position late in the first half, they will amost always run on every down (as if killing the clock), then immediately call timeout and kick the FG. This in bad, for two reasons. One, there's no effort to get into the end zone. Even if a team has thrown for 60 yards to drive down to the 25, they suddenly switch to ultra-conservative runs up the middle. Second, the timeout comes immediately after the third down play, leaving lots of time for the other team.

Solution: if the home team has the ball and is planning to kick a late half field goal, they should let the clock wind down so that their kick is the last play of the half. Of course, the visitors could also call timeout, but the home team shouldn't do it for them.

It's a small thing, but it's annoying to see your game winning drive end with a FG, only to see the other team drive back with the 25 seconds you kindly left them to work with.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Pyser
got a few wishes:

- how bout being able to see what pick players were taken at in the 1st round? you cant tell if a first round pick from 3 years ago was taken with the 2nd pick in the draft, or the 32nd pick in the draft.

- also draft related...have your scouts be able to find a draftable player for you....by doing the "recommend" button in the trade screen, then searchnig for players with 1 yr experience.

- make players names clickable in more places. for example: season awards.

Howabout just a historical record of the draft, i.e. a draft results page for every year, players names clickable (active, of course)? Ok, maybe it would hog memory, I don't know. But if I have a high pick, I'd like to see how those players I passed up are doing.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by cuervo72
Howabout just a historical record of the draft, i.e. a draft results page for every year, players names clickable (active, of course)? Ok, maybe it would hog memory, I don't know. But if I have a high pick, I'd like to see how those players I passed up are doing.

We should at the very least be able to save the draft results like a box score.

[Easy Mac]

you can copy and paste the draft results to a text file so long as you don't close the draft window.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
you can copy and paste the draft results to a text file so long as you don't close the draft window.

Yeah, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to automatically save it in a file (like a box score). That way it wouldn't be a memory strain, and in case you forget to save it (like I did recently) you can access it. It seems like it would be a VERY easy option to add for future versions (if not and update for FOF4).

cthomer

[Flame Eater]

Contract window...highlight the $$$'s as you tab through. If I remember correctly, it worked before one of the patches? But it doesn't work now.

[cthomer5000]

suggestion: allow the universe directory to be user-created. In FOF2001 we could rename the universe directory and create new ones. This allowed us to have completely different sets of game files at our disposal. We can't do this in TCY or FOF4, it would be a big help to those of us who like to have a lot of things going at once.

[PSUColonel]

I don't know if this apparent bug has been mentioned, but here it is:

one of my players was injured in the first quater, but it said he should be able to remain in the game. FIne.

In the same game he was later injured again, but this time it just said he was injured. The odd thing is, he was never taken out of the game, and was continuing to make tackles. When I checked his status at the end of the game, it said he had a groin pull, and was doubtful for 4 weeks. My question is, shouldn't he have been removed from play after the 2nd injury?

[DolphinFan1]

If you have your "play injuryed player" setting real high, some of your players will play unless they are hurt bad.

[PSUColonel]

OK- it was set AT 52, BUT THE RESERVES REALLY REALLY STINK.

Question- does the coach adjust gameplan settings as well?

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by PSUColonel
OK- it was set AT 52, BUT THE RESERVES REALLY REALLY STINK.

Question- does the coach adjust gameplan settings as well?

I don't think so. As far as I know he'll carry out the gameplan until the game is over.

[Blackadar]

I'd like to see an option for a "mock draft" before the actual draft. It doesn't have to be the same, but something would be helpful in determining whether the player you need would still be there. Also, it's about impossible to trade up in the draft. I don't mind a stiff price, but I should be able to give up my next 3 1st round choices to move to a top slot should I choose to do so.

[OZ]

Has anyone noticed this?
I'm running a "historical career" with the historical draft files and have completed my first season. I always create backups of my league so I can go back if something happens that I don't like...for instance my favorite player goes down for the season or worse.
However, if I revert to a backup* at anytime after I've ended my first season, and then try to view a players statistics...it says that the previous seasons data file (or stats) cannot be found?
Anyone else have this happen?

*(I usually create a zip file backup...but now I'm going to try copying the universe directory)

[T-Storm]

The most glaring weakness imo is that the cpu does make a ton of stupid decisions with the money they invest in players. Obviously this is nothing new, but I feel that would be rather easy to correct:
As we all know the cpu makes most it's roster movements at the beginning of the free agency-period. Maybe it's me, but it seemed that the cpu in FoF2001 renegotiated by far more player-contracts than it does in FoF4?! There are so many players on the cpu controlled teams that deteriorated since their original signing and have apparent ratings of roster fillers yet their contracts haven't been reworked eventhough the players contract-demands would be in accordance with their ratings.
I wonder why the cpu controlled teams neither rework those contracts or fire the these players? It seems like such an obvious decision, which wouldn't take much time to reprogram.

Currently in one of my Dynasties caproom has escalated to 160.000.000 and one of the cpu controlled teams pays it's starting quaterback (that misses ~4 games every year because of injury..) 45.000.000 (his last contract-year). That seems a bit too much. Besides that Franchise-Type-Players do land far too often in the free-agency-pool. And Players that got the Frachise-Tag are never(!) resigned! If I had to chose just one thing the upcoming patch should address, it would be the contract-renegotiations.


Besides that... Defensive Line-Men demand too much money or/and are injured far too often. I don't see why anyone would pay a dt/de in the range of 5% of the cap-space if said linemen only played half of the season because of injuries. And sadly most d-linemen seem to be rather injuryprone.


I'd like to somehow control how often my Quaterback scrambles without calling the plays every game.
Another neat but yet probably not implementable feature would be a way to set the talent-level of drafts, as there seem to be too many great players and too few mediocre. Also it'd be nice to have a (5-step) free agency period after the draft (and before training camp), for those undrafted rookie free agents and cap casulties.

[PSUColonel]

I'd like to see player holdouts as well as restrictef free agents with fraft pick compensation

[Tasan]

I'd like to see an option to turn on/off the complex gameplans. I just came to the realization the other day, that the complex game plans are the reason I don't enjoy or play FOF4 anymore. I don't want to spend 2 hours setting up a gameplan only to have my QB go down and have to do it all over again to put in a run heavy offense. One guy mentioned saving them, that would be good too, but being able to go from a 1 screen setup for all circumstances would be nice for the quick game.

[primelord]

Originally posted by Tasan
I'd like to see an option to turn on/off the complex gameplans. I just came to the realization the other day, that the complex game plans are the reason I don't enjoy or play FOF4 anymore. I don't want to spend 2 hours setting up a gameplan only to have my QB go down and have to do it all over again to put in a run heavy offense. One guy mentioned saving them, that would be good too, but being able to go from a 1 screen setup for all circumstances would be nice for the quick game.

You know you can set up one of the screens have it save to all the situations right?

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by PSUColonel
I'd like to see player holdouts as well as restrictef free agents with fraft pick compensation

I would definitely like to see restricted free agents. I would at least like to be able to not tender an offer to a guy so he can look elsewhere. I feel bad leaving my 3rd year players sitting on my roster as unsigned while I move on without them.

[bryce]

this bug is very minor, but seeing as how i'm playing with the cowboys in 2002, i came across it in the last game of that season when i started chutch at qb, took him out after he went 4-13 for 42 yds and an int, replaced him with a-wright, and then when he threw 2 INTs in 7 attempts, i took him out, and went with qb #3, q-car.

in the nfl, isn't there some rule where you can't go to your 3rd qb unless the first two are hurt? again, not a big deal, and only really applies to ridiculously shitty teams like my 'boys...

the bug i've come across during gameplay that does get to me has already been mentioned - the cpu calling timeouts for your team even if you are coaching...

[DolphinFan1]

Bryce, I think the NFL rule is if you use your 3rd QB before the 4th quarter, then the starter can't return. In the 4th quarter, you can switch back and forth. I think.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
suggestion: allow the universe directory to be user-created. In FOF2001 we could rename the universe directory and create new ones. This allowed us to have completely different sets of game files at our disposal. We can't do this in TCY or FOF4, it would be a big help to those of us who like to have a lot of things going at once.

While I don't think this is a bad idea, I would liek to point out that hat you're talking about is completely possible already - it just requires an extra step or two. You need to create an alternative holding directory for files not currently in use. But you can move files into and out of your initial "universe" dircetory and accomplish what you're suggesting currently.