6.2 and AI Roster Shuffling

[MalcPow]

It's been brought up in a couple of my leagues so I thought I'd bring it up here as well, the 6.2 patch has brought the return of the heavy-handed and wacky roster management stuff that we haven't been seeing for awhile. If you have an invalid roster or a slot open in any of your depth charts, the AI is going to do a full shuffle of everything. (Yes, every single depth chart and an inactive/active roster sweep.) It will even go as far as inactivating star players with slight injuries (with no risk of reinjury). So make sure you're keeping a closer eye on things than you may be accustomed to. You could put a very different team on the field than you expect simply by leaving your kickholder slot unfilled or having an injured gunner or something.

Bottom line: Get your exports in ladies...

[MIJB#19]

midweek files for the win!

[stevew]

this is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

[marcmoustache]

I suspect that this is not intentional, and it would explain what happened to my Falcons in the vNFL the other week when my whole set up was changed. Shame really as this was such a step forward when it was changed for the better...

[Ben E Lou]

I disagree, marc. I'd say it's absolutely intentional:

Originally Posted by 6.2 Change Log, Item #5.

Address problems with rare crashes or hanging in Solevision and simulation engine, particularly in multi-player when position restrictions are most relaxed. Note that this will force a few more transactions than in the past.

Because of the relaxed restrictions in 6.1/6.1a, there were times that the game would either hang indefinitely or just plain crash when the commish tried to sim. And it was a repeatable scenario. The only way around it was to either put the offending team on AI Control for that sim (which would actually do more tinkering than we're seeing in 6.2, since it would *completely* run the team for that week: buh-bye, 8/8 mentors and 5/5 position leaders), or the commish would have to go in and manually correct the problem--having to make decisions for an owner.

Personally, I'd rather have seen the rare individual who let his roster get in such bad shape that it would crash the game bear the brunt of this issue with AI control, as opposed to teams with small issues now getting hit by it. But I guess I understand that developers don't want any issue sitting out there that would crash the game. And given that 6.0e and prior had the heavy-handed Otto, and 6.1 introduced the so-forgiving-it-could-crash-the-game Otto, I have to assume that in Jim's assessment there's no doable option between the 6.1/6.1a version and the 6.2 version.

As always, though, there is one simple solution to this: don't submit an illegal roster, and Otto will stay on the sidelines. *shurg*

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I disagree, marc. I'd say it's absolutely intentional:

Because of the relaxed restrictions in 6.1/6.1a, there were times that the game would either hang indefinitely or just plain crash when the commish tried to sim. And it was a repeatable scenario. The only way around it was to either put the offending team on AI Control for that sim (which would actually do more tinkering than we're seeing in 6.2, since it would *completely* run the team for that week: buh-bye, 8/8 mentors and 5/5 position leaders), or the commish would have to go in and manually correct the problem--having to make decisions for an owner.

Personally, I'd rather have seen the rare individual who let his roster get in such bad shape that it would crash the game bear the brunt of this issue with AI control, as opposed to teams with small issues now getting hit by it. But I guess I understand that developers don't want any issue sitting out there that would crash the game. And given that 6.0e and prior had the heavy-handed Otto, and 6.1 introduced the so-forgiving-it-could-crash-the-game Otto, I have to assume that in Jim's assessment there's no doable option between the 6.1/6.1a version and the 6.2 version.

As always, though, there is one simple solution to this: don't submit an illegal roster, and Otto will stay on the sidelines. *shurg*

But Otto comes into play anayway. If I want to sign a free agent, and cut someone (only if he gets signed) on a gameday export, your roster still gets shuffled - whether it's a legal roster or not. I inactivated a starter that was probable, and after the next league import he was active.

SO, basically, if your league does not use midweeks, you can not make transactions without emailling your commish what you want your entire depth chart to be.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

But Otto comes into play anayway. If I want to sign a free agent, and cut someone (only if he gets signed) on a gameday export, your roster still gets shuffled - whether it's a legal roster or not. I inactivated a starter that was probable, and after the next league import he was active.

SO, basically, if your league does not use midweeks, you can not make transactions without emailling your commish what you want your entire depth chart to be.

That's simply not true. You posted yourself that you had room on your inactive roster, and signed a FA. FA signings are always active by default. You need to fill our your depth charts with 45, then sign the additional player.

[gstelmack]

Yup. Set your file with 45 active players, fill all depth chart positions, then submit with the offer for an FA. He'll go into slot #46 on the active roster, and because the depth chart is full it won't need to be shuffled.

Otto will run when:

- You have more than 46 active players, including any FA signings for that sim.
- You have an open spot on your depth chart, including guys marked "Out" whose space you forgot to fill.

The two most common ways this happens by accident are:

- Signing someone with 46 guys already active.
- Forgetting that an injured player was in one of the special teams slots, and just replacing him on the offense or defense.

Yes, it's a longstanding request that you be able to specify that a signed player go on your inactive roster.

[MrDNA]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yes, it's a longstanding request that you be able to specify that a signed player go on your inactive roster.

Or be slotted in your depth chart. I've had to sign a kicker in a MP league w/o midweeks and I had to have my punter attempt field goals while the newly signed kicker sat on the bench (while being active).

Yeeaaaaaa!

[marcmoustache]

I'm pretty certain that my issue in the vNFL was purely when I cut a OG who was causing lots of disruption. I then missed the gameday export, and boom.

[ShaneTheMaster]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

That's simply not true. You posted yourself that you had room on your inactive roster, and signed a FA. FA signings are always active by default. You need to fill our your depth charts with 45, then sign the additional player.

I did not know a signed FA goes on the active roster by default until after I made this post. The way that works does not mak sense to me, since most FAs you sign midseason are scrubs.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

I did not know a signed FA goes on the active roster by default until after I made this post. The way that works does not mak sense to me, since most FAs you sign midseason are scrubs.

True, but FOF is what it is.
So, right now, the new guy will be active, so you'd better make sure to have only 45 players active, with all depth chart slots filled. In the end it's quite simple: you have to play by the rules of your league, even if they don't follow up advise of the help file slash game developer to use mid-week files for the situations where you need to hire a player. Worst case, you do as I did and only consider playing in leagues with mid-week files. It sucks, but those are you options.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

True, but FOF is what it is.
So, right now, the new guy will be active, so you'd better make sure to have only 45 players active, with all depth chart slots filled. In the end it's quite simple: you have to play by the rules of your league, even if they don't follow up advise of the help file slash game developer to use mid-week files for the situations where you need to hire a player. Worst case, you do as I did and only consider playing in leagues with mid-week files. It sucks, but those are you options.

Advice? It's mentioned in the Help File as something that "many commissioners" do. But it's neither endorsed nor warned against.

The other option is in said leagues, to simply have the commish slot players in those dire situations. It's really easy to do, and for me, a much better solution than running a file for a small handful of teams over and over.

It's not rocket science to avoid the AI treatment, even without midweeks or commish help. Adding in either makes it complete user error when the AI takes over.

[RedKingGold]

Agreed. This is no real big issue IMO, and is probably a bigger help than hurt in FOF MP leagues.

[MIJB#19]

For those who can't find the F1 button, or are too lazy to read the full content before hitting reply

During the exhibition and regular season, many commissioners will run two stages for each game week. During the first of those two stages, he accepts stage files, imports them, but then just saves the game, exports the game files and sends them to team owners. Owners then can make moves and fill their depth charts based on any processed transactions from the first stage. In the second stage, the commissioner accepts the stage files, imports them, then runs the week of games as usual. This process gives team owners the most control over their teams, especially in cases where they need to sign players to replace injured players

That, to me, sounds like a word of advice.

Besides, I didn't claim it to be a must-do process. As I said, some leagues use it, some don't. If you want to keep control, stay away from the non-mid-week leagues.

[Ben E Lou]

I read the full content before hitting reply. Thus the *quoting* of it ("...many commisioners...") I consider that to be exactly what it is: information. And frankly, it's outdated, due to 6.1. In leagues where the simmer makes changes for the player (which wasn't doable without massive pains prior to 6.1), savvy owners maintain just as much control without midweeks as with midweeks.

EDIT: Besides, we ignore Jim's advice all the time. Why all of a sudden on this issue is it to be taken as gospel?

[gstelmack]

Not to mention the number of times folks submit a midweek then forget to submit the actual game week sim (and we're one of those that would crash periodically WITH the midweeks from folks who missed a submission). WOOF has no more or less roster shuffling than it ever did when we had midweeks, but now the commish has more time to run cool reports...

[Ben E Lou]

..and learn a little SQL and php.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

I did not know a signed FA goes on the active roster by default until after I made this post. The way that works does not mak sense to me, since most FAs you sign midseason are scrubs.

Although I think the reason most people sign FAs during the season is to fulfill position requirements, which would necessitate them being active.