Hey USC fans...

[Chief Rum]

I come in peace.

I just want to know what you guys thought of how Pete Carroll handled the Sanchez presser today.

I have said a lot of things about PC in the past, and there are some things I don't like about him. But by and large he has done it right, and generally does and says the right thing. Today came out of left field for me, and I lost a healthy dose of "opponent's respect" for Carroll today.

What did you guys, as fans, think?

[bhlloy]

I think, reading between the lines, he was really expecting Sanchez to stay, he prides himself on giving his players objective advice about the NFL and Sanchez had given him every indication that he was going to stick around. Then over the weekend, word is that agents got involved and everything changed.

I also think he just saw his national championship season in 09 go down the toilet.

I wish he'd handled it better. But I don't think there is any animosity between the Sanchez family and PC. I think rather he's pissed at the agents hanging around the program and the way this decision went down.

On the plus side, MJ4H gets a chance to prove me wrong about who is going to win the QB battle

[bhlloy]

DOLA - inside info also says that Sanchez's family was in agreement with Carroll (which I can believe) and that his evaluation had a second round grade on it (which I don't - at least not now Bradford isn't coming out)

[SackAttack]

Reading a few articles, it seems like he:

a) is right (IMO)
b) probably should have refrained from comment until he'd gotten himself more under control.

If Sanchez goes to Detroit, he's going to regret it.

If Sanchez falls into the third round, he's REALLY going to regret it.

This is a no-win situation for him, when he could have done what Bradford did - take out some insurance, stay in school, polish the mechanics and try to have a really kickass 2009 season.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, I read it much like bhlloy did too. It's part annoyance that he's losing his QB, but I think it's also partly him believing that his guy should come back for another year.

[Karlifornia]

Going to detroit and falling to the third round are the only options for Sanchez in the draft?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Going to detroit and falling to the third round are the only options for Sanchez in the draft?

Well, he could fall out of it entirely, I suppose.

What I was trying to say is that he's declaring because he thinks he's going near the top of the first round. Looking at the top ten teams, who needs a QB or would be willing to invest a high pick in a QB? Detroit and Kansas City...anybody after that?

Really, once/if he goes into Brady Quinn freefall, it almost doesn't matter where he lands. He won't get the money his eyes are filled with, and even if he lands in a better situation for a QB, as Rodgers did, it would be some time before he got the chance.

[sooner333]

The good news for Carroll is that if it turns out those agents have been giving housing to the Sanchez family for the past year that nothing bad will happen to the program.

[MrBug708]

He graduated and Pete has Barkley coming in? What's the big deal?

[Chief Rum]

Even if he's right, and Sanchez is making the biggest mistake of his life (which I do not believe--unless Sanchez just completely sucks at the combine, I think he goes in the Top 20 at worst because of his position and the lack of too many other options at his level), the way Carroll handled it was just really poor, IMO.

I mean, you realize he himself, with his reaction, probably cost Sanchez a few spots in the draft, as head coach evaluation of a player is one of the key elements used in scouting a player for the draft. If Carroll backs himself up, he's badmouthing his own player to scouts, which he should feel bad about. If he tries to talk Sanchez up, no one believes him.

And that's above and beyond just being supportive of the kid at least, if not the decision. I mean, this guy gave Carroll four years of his life, four years of devotion to his program. Sure, Sanchez got an education (both in class and for the football pros) while there, but Sanchez isn't the one not being grateful. He still thanked Carroll for the role he played in preparing Sanchez for this day, when he would be going pro.

Sorry, Sanchez deserved better than that. Heck, the USC towel boy deserves better than that.

[MrBug708]

One thing I don't get about Pete Carroll...

The media is always quick to jump on everyone for anything and everything.

They jump on Tiger every time he doesn't sign an autograph, they jumped on Michael Jordan every time he gambled too much and Bill Bellichek is always written up for being a dik and a cheater.

How has Pete Carroll escaped media scrutiny for being pompous jackass for so long?

Aside form all of the recrutiing faux pas that all of us dorks know about...

This is double digit events of him not being gracious about players leaving early.

He is constantly on camera being a classless showboat on the sidelines during blowouts.

Why does he keep getting a pass?

[Deattribution]

Sanchez's best bet was to get out this year, it's looking like a weak QB class and there are several teams that need a QB. That wouldn't be the case next year necessarily, especially once a couple teams invest into other QBs and a deeper class upcoming.

Bradford is top 5 next year, If Tebow improves more as a QB, he's a late first to second round pick for sure since people are in love with his intangibles, then throw in 2 or 3 other surprise QBs that always pop up and his stock might not be any better next year.

Carroll was just being selfish and spoiled on this one I think.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

One thing I don't get about Pete Carroll...

The media is always quick to jump on everyone for anything and everything.

They jump on Tiger every time he doesn't sign an autograph, they jumped on Michael Jordan every time he gambled too much and Bill Bellichek is always written up for being a dik and a cheater.

How has Pete Carroll escaped media scrutiny for being pompous jackass for so long?

Aside form all of the recrutiing faux pas that all of us dorks know about...

This is double digit events of him not being gracious about players leaving early.

He is constantly on camera being a classless showboat on the sidelines during blowouts.

Why does he keep getting a pass?

Bug, I guess you can open that can of worms if you want to, but I wasn't really trying to make this a "rip on Pete Carroll" thread. I just knew how I felt about this specific reaction, but I figured it was as much my UCLA fandom as his actions leading to it. So I thought I would see what our resident USC fans felt.

All that said, yeah, Carroll does generally get a probably undeserved pass. But he's not the only one in sports who gets that.

[Chief Rum]

I just feel bad for Sanchez, though. I mean, by all reports, this seems to be a real good kid, always says the right things, really puts the effort out there, and was the leader of this USC team. And he no doubt looks up to Carroll, like a father figure-benefactor away from home. And he had to stand there, on what was supposed to be his day, and watch this man he had followed and admired for so long, stand there and rip him to the national media.

And after Carroll left the presser, he (or his chosen author) wrote up more bad press on Sanchez and posted it to his Web site.

[Lathum]

Can someone sum up what PC did/ said?

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Can someone sum up what PC did/ said?

Essentially, Sanchez declared, Pete disagreed both privately but also publicly (the mistake IMO), including during Sanchez's presser. So despite knowing that he had no way of swaying Sanchez's decision anymore, he says he's unprepared for the NFL, points out the failure rate for underclassmen, writes about it on his website and just generally doesn't hold back his resentment over the fact Sanchez declared.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Bug, I guess you can open that can of worms if you want to, but I wasn't really trying to make this a "rip on Pete Carroll" thread. I just knew how I felt about this specific reaction, but I figured it was as much my UCLA fandom as his actions leading to it. So I thought I would see what our resident USC fans felt.

All that said, yeah, Carroll does generally get a probably undeserved pass. But he's not the only one in sports who gets that.

Hey, I left USC out of it

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Essentially, Sanchez declared, Pete disagreed both privately but also publicly (the mistake IMO), including during Sanchez's presser. So despite knowing that he had no way of swaying Sanchez's decision anymore, he says he's unprepared for the NFL, points out the failure rate for underclassmen, writes about it on his website and just generally doesn't hold back his resentment over the fact Sanchez declared.

ouch, gonna have to youtube that when I have a chance.

I wonder if that hurts recruiting. Every kid goes to USC to play pro ball. I wonder if kids will be leary to go for fear of being blasted by the coach if they leave school early.

[Deattribution]

Here is the article off Carroll's site for anyone coming in out of the loop -

In strong disagreement

Carroll reveals why he disagrees with Sanchez’s decision to turn pro early

After days of deliberation, Coach Pete Carroll and Mark Sanchez agreed to disagree.

But that definitely doesn’t mean Carroll is content with Sanchez’s decision to forgo his senior season and declare for the NFL Draft.

Carroll fleshed out his disagreement with Sanchez’s decision during a passionate exclusive interview with USCRipsIt about an hour after the quarterback’s announcement on Thursday morning.

“The facts are so strong against this decision,” Carroll said. “After analyzing all the information, the truth is there — he should’ve stayed for another year.”

Carroll cited a study that shows 62 percent of underclassmen quarterbacks who declare early for the Draft eventually don’t pan out in the NFL. He also pointed to Sanchez’s NFL Draft evaluation, which projected Sanchez as a second-round selection.

“Mark’s chance to increase his value and become the top player in college football next year would have been worth $10-$20 million or more — likely more,” Carroll said. “One more year of running a team is almost priceless, so he lost the chance to fully prepare himself and become the very best he could be before going to the NFL.

“That’s why there’s a 62 percent failure rate for underclassmen quarterbacks.”

During the press conference, Sanchez repeatedly referred to achieving a lifelong dream as to one of the reasons he made this decision.

“We have always been in full support of Mark pursuing his dream,” Carroll said, “he just should have postponed realizing his dream another 12 months.”

Carroll stressed that his advice to Sanchez throughout the last two weeks had the quarterback’s interests in mind, not his team’s.

“I’m trying to help him be the best he can be, and that would’ve been to stay in school another year and increase his value,” Carroll said. “The facts are there. And he knew all of it, but that’s what he wanted to do it, so we wish him the best.”

Carroll wasn’t alone in his disagreement.

“His family didn’t want it and everybody else told him he should’ve stayed,” Carroll said. “Also, he let go of the opportunity to affect the people around the university and the community, something that would’ve been unforgettable.”

Although he remained strong in his disagreement, Carroll emphasized that he still supports Sanchez and knows he “will always be a special member of the Trojan family.”

“Even though we disagree, I still support him and we’re going to try to help him in any way we can,” Carroll said. “It’s like a family member — you’re not going to stop loving him just because he makes a bad choice.

“Hopefully he’ll overcome the history of these decisions and the people’s opinions out there and becomes very successful.”


• Ben Malcolmson is the Director of Online Media for USCRipsIt/PeteCarroll.com. You can contact him at [email protected].

[SackAttack]

I think the picture of Pete on his blog sums up his feelings better than the quotes do.

[MrBug708]

It's a dark day when a kid who is graduating college is considered "coming out too soon.

I think it comes down to Carroll not trusting Corp or Mustain more then he wants Sanchez to stay. Staying another year didn't help Leinart and it even cost him money. All Sanchez needs to do is get hurt, see his stock fall, and it'll never be the same again. Listening to Petros yesterday, he was saying that when you take out insurance policies and go back to school another year, you can't collect on the money unless you never play the sport again

[Eaglesfan27]

I disagree with how Pete's inflection was, but I don't disagree with any of the things he said. He said he is behind Mark and hopes it turns out well, but statistically QB's coming out early don't do well - which is true. It's also true that Mark doesn't have as many starts as most QB's who leave early and this further hurts his chance for success. He was honest and I think a lot of parents will appreciate that as opposed to the salesmanship job of some coaches. I do wish that Pete kept it less emotional, but he has never been good at hiding his emotions.

Bug, as far as Barkley taking over, he's a great prospect, but USC's pro style offense is going to be too complicated for almost any kid to assimilate in less than a full year. I don't think there is any realistic chance that he starts this year, and I think Barkley knows that and is fine with it. He'll likely redshirt still and it will be between Corp and Mustain as to who starts. I still think Corp will win that battle. I just hope Mustain doesn't decide to transfer if it goes down like that. I'm much more worried about Mustain leaving than any of the other QB's.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

I definitely think Sanchez gave every indication to Pete he was staying before this weekend, which was a factor in how Pete handled it. There are several sources out there that say he told teammates he was staying as recently as 2 days ago. I wonder if it was a factor in Taylor Mays' decision at all.

[MrBug708]

Mustain can't transfer unless it's to a Div. 2 school (I think)

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Mustain can't transfer unless it's to a Div. 2 school (I think)

He can go to an FCS school too.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Dola -

I definitely think Sanchez gave every indication to Pete he was staying before this weekend, which was a factor in how Pete handled it. There are several sources out there that say he told teammates he was staying as recently as 2 days ago. I wonder if it was a factor in Taylor Mays' decision at all.

Interesting. Taylor Mays trashed Sanchez for his decision yesterday, too.

[Julio Riddols]

“That’s why there’s a 62 percent failure rate for underclassmen quarterbacks.”

Whats the success rate of any Quarterback? Seems like its probably the same or similar. And what determines failure? Sanchez is one of the top 2 or 3 QB in this class, next year he would be maybe top 5.. He has an opportunity to become an instant millionaire (He'll get drafted high enough to get at least a mil or two in bonus money..)

And aside from all that, he has been a good QB for a couple years in a pro system where Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel and Matt Leinart have come from over the last 7 seasons. Not bad company.

He is probably making a better career move both in the long term and short term, because he will be putting himself on a team with reasonable talent if he is a mid-1st or later, will probably get at least a year to learn, and will probably be a quality QB when it is all said and done.

Carroll should take it like a man. Theres no reason for the kid to stay another year, plus Carroll has more talent in his 3rd and 4th string spots on that team than most teams have starting.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

And aside from all that, he has been a good QB for a couple years in a pro system where Carson Palmer, Matt Cassel and Matt Leinart have come from over the last 7 seasons. Not bad company.

Actually, he only has 1 full year of starting in that system. As far as Pete's comments hurting Mark - it's not like his lack of experience is a secret. Stafford has 3 years starting and if Stafford remains #1 over Mark, I'm sure Mark's relative inexperience will be a factor in that.

Still, as I said before, I think this was the correct decision for Mark. He seems like a sure fire 1st rounder and likely top 10 pick.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Sanchez's best bet was to get out this year, it's looking like a weak QB class and there are several teams that need a QB. That wouldn't be the case next year necessarily, especially once a couple teams invest into other QBs and a deeper class upcoming.

I think you nailed Sanchez's (and his agent's) thinking right there. I think it also would explain the sentiments expressed by both sides. I'm sure Sanchez intended to come back until every other top QB with eligibility left decided to stay in school. So Sanchez decided to make the best short-term economic decision for himself, which is to be one of the higher profile QBs in a shallow class.

In Carroll's defense, he is probably accurate to note that that Sanchez's lack of seasoning in college will make his long-term economic outlook dimmer. Not to say he won't succeed, but a high 1st round pick is expected to play very soon, and if you aren't ready your career will be shot before it starts.

[RedKingGold]

I normally don't agree with this sportswriter, but I think this article is a close enough description as to why Carroll acted like a tool yesterday:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...oll/index.html

It's fine for Caroll to have those thoughts, but to express them so definitively in public shows what Caroll really cares about.

[flere-imsaho]

That's pretty classy by Carroll. What a tool.

[cartman]

Neuheisel is watching that press conference over and over like a 3 year old watching "Cars". He got a late Christmas recruiting present from ole' Pete.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

“That’s why there’s a 62 percent failure rate for underclassmen quarterbacks.”

Whats the success rate of any Quarterback? Seems like its probably the same or similar. And what determines failure? Sanchez is one of the top 2 or 3 QB in this class, next year he would be maybe top 5.. He has an opportunity to become an instant millionaire (He'll get drafted high enough to get at least a mil or two in bonus money..)

Exactly, naming off %50 fail, %62 fail, it's all just sour grapes. Leinart got conned into staying an extra year - it got him a spot on the Cardinals bench, -30+ million and he's 100% a turd of a quarterback. So as far as Carroll is concerned, 50% of the Qbs who stay another year in his system fail.

I have no sympathy for Carroll and he comes off as whiny. I have a hard time believing he has his best interest in mind when he'd gladly horde as many top prospects (like alot of other coaches) so he can to sit them on the bench so no other teams can have them, I'm sure that's in their career's best interest too.

[Kodos]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but Carroll sure seems like he is an asshat here.

[Tigercat]

To act anything but supportive and gracious over one of your student athletes that stays in school for 4 years is ridiculous. (And Pete looks even more petty when he puts that the emphasis on "underclassmen" towards a redshirt-junior.)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I just feel bad for Sanchez, though. I mean, by all reports, this seems to be a real good kid, always says the right things, really puts the effort out there, and was the leader of this USC team.

Didn't he get arrested for sexual assault?

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally Posted by cartman

Neuheisel is watching that press conference over and over like a 3 year old watching "Cars". He got a late Christmas recruiting present from ole' Pete.

You are right Cartman, Rick is licking his chops are now. How the hell does PC do this and is always seen as a great coach..

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

You are right Cartman, Rick is licking his chops are now. How the hell does PC do this and is always seen as a great coach..

This is the first time that I can recall that Pete has ever made a public gaffe like this as coach of the Trojans. I wonder if part of his bad day was due to him finding out that new QB coach Carl Smith has already interviewed for the Cleveland Browns.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Didn't he get arrested for sexual assault?

Yup.

Misunderstanding like every Trojan run-in with the law

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

On the plus side, MJ4H gets a chance to prove me wrong about who is going to win the QB battle

Okay, you're on. I'm not MJ4H but I'll root for Mustain vs Corp to keep it interesting. Please post the relevant clippings when you see them.

The prize is a formal, straight up mea culpa in September. Other than for an injury, no buts-if-shoulda-coulda-woulda etc.

IMO, what PC did to Sanchez was classless. It seemed to be as childish and being vindictive.

[Crim]

Hadn't seen this posted, but here's the video of PC at the presser:

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

One thing I don't get about Pete Carroll...

The media is always quick to jump on everyone for anything and everything.

They jump on Tiger every time he doesn't sign an autograph, they jumped on Michael Jordan every time he gambled too much and Bill Bellichek is always written up for being a dik and a cheater.

How has Pete Carroll escaped media scrutiny for being pompous jackass for so long?

Aside form all of the recrutiing faux pas that all of us dorks know about...

This is double digit events of him not being gracious about players leaving early.

He is constantly on camera being a classless showboat on the sidelines during blowouts.

Why does he keep getting a pass?

Hey Hey look at the UCLA fan bashing the Trojans!

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Yup.

Misunderstanding like every Trojan run-in with the law

The only reason the Trojans are ran throught he press when they run in with the law is because the Bruins suck so bad that no one cares...

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Okay, you're on. I'm not MJ4H but I'll root for Mustain vs Corp to keep it interesting. Please post the relevant clippings when you see them.

The prize is a formal, straight up mea culpa in September. Other than for an injury, no buts-if-shoulda-coulda-woulda etc.

IMO, what PC did to Sanchez was classless. It seemed to be as childish and being vindictive.

I'll take Garrett Green...j/k.

[DanGarion]

I think Carroll overreacted a bit, but after all the stories I read, and now seeing the video that Crim posted, it appears to me that many sports writers are just plain fucking idiots. All Pete was doing was explaining his feelings on Sanchez leaving, and saying he thinks that Mark is making a big mistake.

IMO Sanchez is a dolt for leaving early, the guy has 15 games of experience and that's it. So what, he's graduated. Him leaving will hurt the team, and I think that's why the UCLA fans are brining this up in the first place, they want to shove it in our faces. That's ok though, because we have 3 other blue chip QBs and the Bruins only same QBs with the name of Olsen, Olson, Olsin, or Olsan. I think we'll be fine...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I think Carroll overreacted a bit, but after all the stories I read, and now seeing the video that Crim posted, it appears to me that many sports writers are just plain fucking idiots. All Pete was doing was explaining his feelings on Sanchez leaving, and saying he thinks that Mark is making a big mistake.

IMO Sanchez is a dolt for leaving early, the guy has 15 games of experience and that's it. So what, he's graduated. Him leaving will hurt the team, and I think that's why the UCLA fans are brining this up in the first place, they want to shove it in our faces. That's ok though, because we have 3 other blue chip QBs and the Bruins only same QBs with the name of Olsen, Olson, Olsin, or Olsan. I think we'll be fine...

Sorry, that's just not the forum for Carroll to get his message out. It's not about whether Sanchez's decision is right or wrong, or if Carroll is right or wrong for his belief about Sanchez's decision. It was the decision to do this at Sanchez's press conference, on Sanchez's day, when he should have been publically supporting his player, and applauding his career at USC.

If he comes out afterward with something about how the decision is bad, I don't have nearly the problem with it that I do here. Carroll was completely classless in doing this.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sorry, that's just not the forum for Carroll to get his message out. It's not about whether Sanchez's decision is right or wrong, or if Carroll is right or wrong for his belief about Sanchez's decision. It was the decision to do this at Sanchez's press conference, on Sanchez's day, when he should have been publically supporting his player, and applauding his career at USC.

If he comes out afterward with something about how the decision is bad, I don't have nearly the problem with it that I do here. Carroll was completely classless in doing this.

If that's the case it's the first classless thing he's ever done at USC in his many years there. I'm sure Joe'Pa has had faux pa once or twice in his career.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

If that's the case it's the first classless thing he's ever done at USC in his many years there. I'm sure Joe'Pa has had faux pa once or twice in his career.

I have also seen Carroll run up the score on a number of occasions, including against UCLA (one game in particular comes to mind where he was up by 30+ in the fourth quarter and went for it on a midfield 4th down). And not one person has come forward to substantiate his and Norton's assertions about Neuheisel's 'Norton will be the DC' promises to recruits, which came out because Carroll himself encouraged Norton to talk to the media--plain spiteful after losing Pressley to the Bruins. And that's just off the top of my head.

Now I am not saying Carroll is not classy most times. The stuff he does and the persona he has built in South Central (not 'SC joke, I actually mean "South Central", the hood) is fantastic. His missing kicker honor to Daneylo earlier this year was very well done and honorable. He sees the bigger picture and worked with Neuheisel on the uniform thing, too. By all reports, he is a very good guy and likable, and that's beyond being a fantastic college coach as well.

But if you think this is the first time Carroll has not been classy at USC, you are smoking the red and gold ganja, my friend. It's okay to support him, but don't lie to yourself. It's just embarrassing.

[Eaglesfan27]

Not as embarassing as those UCLA supporters who have convinced themselves that Slick Rick has really changed and won't burn the program with some impropriety in the future.

[Young Drachma]

I think Sanchez made a smart economic move in a year where there aren't that many top school QBs coming out. Plus, he can leverage the whole Hispanic QB thing for possible endorsements, so life won't be too terrible if his agents are worth their salt.