Importance of Weight

Hedgehog · 05-18-2009, 02:05 PM

I understand from reading previous posts that weight has a big determination on how well a guy will transfer to a new position.

I play a 3-4 defense and my big question is how important is the weight of your DE. In real life, usually the DE in this defense would be a bit bigger than say a 4-3 DE. Does the weight of the DE have any importance in this game?

Thanks in advance.

Ben E Lou · 05-18-2009, 02:21 PM

I think the prevailing wisdom is something like this..

Weight and height matter very marginally for performance--so little that most veterans just ignore them when it comes to assessing how well the guy will play in relation to his scouted ratings.
Weight matters a *lot* for position switching--enough that people who usually ignore weight training use it when they want to switch a guy, and will even wait until after camp to do the switch, eschewing the camp positional experience gain.

Hedgehog · 05-18-2009, 03:17 PM

Thanks you Ben as always for your wisdom.

FFL Buffalo Bills · 06-07-2009, 07:55 AM

I would like to know when you select weights for your players and it tells you your players weight is significantly above the avg. for other players at his pos. You would think trimming down would be the thing to do.But the options here are to bulk up and says bulking up will have no-effect on players rating. No Kidding.. So why can't ya trimming them down?

Same thing happens when a player is below weight and they only let you trim them down??? I don't get it!

Now a rookie thats signed before camp you have an option to select from either trim down or bulk up. And rookies that hasn't signed yet you can't make any weight changes. I understand why because they haven't signed...But why can the rookies get the choice of bulk up or trim down But the vets if he's over weight can only bulk up more vise versa for underweight players...

Thanks for any input..

Ben E Lou · 06-07-2009, 08:25 AM

I *think* what it's trying to model is this:

You have a guy who is 22 or 23 years old and is a 350-pound DT. He played four years of high school, and was 330 when he graduated, and four years of college, gaining weight up to 350. He's played heavier than the coaches wanted him for his entire career. He simply can't lose weight. He's always going to be heavier than normal, or his performance will suffer. So there he is, 350, and can't lose weight.

Similarly, you have a 195-pound RB. He weighed 180 as a senior in high school, and the knock on him by the recruiting experts was that he was too small to play big-time college fooball. He made it, and they bulked him up in college. By his senior year, he's 195...but that's it. Any more weight, and he's too fat/slow to compete at the level he has been. So there he is, 195, too light, and can't gain weight.

In short, if you have a guy who likely played his entire hs/college careerl nderweight/overweight, you're probably not going to be able to magically change that at age 23ish. It's a fairly simplistic model, but not a terrible one, the more I've thought about it.

bighouserulez · 06-08-2009, 11:49 AM

and will even wait until after camp to do the switch, eschewing the camp positional experience gain

So in essence, it is better to gain the weight and switch positions after TC. I would have thought the opposite?

Ben E Lou · 06-08-2009, 12:53 PM

In my experience, it depends on how far away from the idea weight at the new position the guy is. and whether or not you want to play him much at the new position this year. For example, if I have a 218-pound safety and I want him to play corner an he can lose weight, and the conversion is saying something like 89%, I'm going to do the weight training, let him come out of it lighter, and *then* switch him when I get less of a ratings hit. But if I have a guy who's gonna switch at 97% and I want him to play immediately, I'm probably going to switch him before camp so he gets those current points in camp at his new position.

Epi_862 · 10-05-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

In my experience, it depends on how far away from the idea weight at the new position the guy is. and whether or not you want to play him much at the new position this year. For example, if I have a 218-pound safety and I want him to play corner an he can lose weight, and the conversion is saying something like 89%, I'm going to do the weight training, let him come out of it lighter, and *then* switch him when I get less of a ratings hit. But if I have a guy who's gonna switch at 97% and I want him to play immediately, I'm probably going to switch him before camp so he gets those current points in camp at his new position.

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but i was studying weight/height, and this one confused the hell out of me...

I always thought the bars didnt factor in weight, but that last bit almost definetly means that they do... Im confused. Any consensus on this?`

As a backrgound, i have an 90/90 RDE, almost all bars full. He doesnt sack anyone. He started 16 games last year, and was 3rd in sacks, behind some 30/30, 25/25 guys. Has been mediocre at best all 4 years he started. Didn't tackle all that well either. I always thought its because he's the size of a boat, at 6'6'' 320. But if the ratings take weight into account.. cant figure it out.

Celeval · 10-05-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epi_862

I always thought the bars didnt factor in weight, but that last bit almost definetly means that they do... Im confused. Any consensus on this?`

As a backrgound, i have an 90/90 RDE, almost all bars full. He doesnt sack anyone. He started 16 games last year, and was 3rd in sacks, behind some 30/30, 25/25 guys. Has been mediocre at best all 4 years he started. Didn't tackle all that well either. I always thought its because he's the size of a boat, at 6'6'' 320. But if the ratings take weight into account.. cant figure it out.

They directly factor into the conversion process. So changing two identical DTs to DE where one is 285lbs and one is 310lbs, the 285 pounder would (typically) have better bars at the DE position.

The question Ben is trying to answer is what the end case would be - better bars by fixing the weight first and then changing, or changing right away and getting more experience.

JediKooter · 10-05-2009, 10:50 PM

I thought this would have some advice on dating...

EDIT: And then I realized that I did not click on the Off Topic forum, my bad. Sorry.

05-18-2009, 02:21 PM	#2
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I think the prevailing wisdom is something like this.. Weight and height matter very marginally for performance--so little that most veterans just ignore them when it comes to assessing how well the guy will play in relation to his scouted ratings. Weight matters a lot for position switching--enough that people who usually ignore weight training use it when they want to switch a guy, and will even wait until after camp to do the switch, eschewing the camp positional experience gain. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

06-07-2009, 08:25 AM	#5
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I think what it's trying to model is this: You have a guy who is 22 or 23 years old and is a 350-pound DT. He played four years of high school, and was 330 when he graduated, and four years of college, gaining weight up to 350. He's played heavier than the coaches wanted him for his entire career. He simply can't lose weight. He's always going to be heavier than normal, or his performance will suffer. So there he is, 350, and can't lose weight. Similarly, you have a 195-pound RB. He weighed 180 as a senior in high school, and the knock on him by the recruiting experts was that he was too small to play big-time college fooball. He made it, and they bulked him up in college. By his senior year, he's 195...but that's it. Any more weight, and he's too fat/slow to compete at the level he has been. So there he is, 195, too light, and can't gain weight. In short, if you have a guy who likely played his entire hs/college careerl nderweight/overweight, you're probably not going to be able to magically change that at age 23ish. It's a fairly simplistic model, but not a terrible one, the more I've thought about it. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

06-08-2009, 11:49 AM	#6
bighouserulez H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Michigan	Not trying to threadjack but.. and will even wait until after camp to do the switch, eschewing the camp positional experience gain So in essence, it is better to gain the weight and switch positions after TC. I would have thought the opposite? __________________ Are you looking for a different MP league? TFL is a league that uses historical rosters and adds in other sport athletes and famous figures from a certain era http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/tfl/ben/index.php GML is a league that is you as a GM and a GM only http://www.fof-gml.com/forum/register.php?do=addmember vNFL and House have the forum that shares knowledge and asks for players to constantly challenge thinking in fof. http://www.bearsruletheworld.com/vnfl/

06-08-2009, 12:53 PM	#7
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	In my experience, it depends on how far away from the idea weight at the new position the guy is. and whether or not you want to play him much at the new position this year. For example, if I have a 218-pound safety and I want him to play corner an he can lose weight, and the conversion is saying something like 89%, I'm going to do the weight training, let him come out of it lighter, and then switch him when I get less of a ratings hit. But if I have a guy who's gonna switch at 97% and I want him to play immediately, I'm probably going to switch him before camp so he gets those current points in camp at his new position. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

10-05-2009, 10:50 PM	#10
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	I thought this would have some advice on dating... EDIT: And then I realized that I did not click on the Off Topic forum, my bad. Sorry. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4 Last edited by JediKooter : 10-05-2009 at 10:52 PM.

05-18-2009, 03:17 PM	#3
Hedgehog n00b Join Date: Jul 2007	Thanks you Ben as always for your wisdom.

06-07-2009, 07:55 AM	#4
FFL Buffalo Bills n00b Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: N.Y.	I would like to know when you select weights for your players and it tells you your players weight is significantly above the avg. for other players at his pos. You would think trimming down would be the thing to do.But the options here are to bulk up and says bulking up will have no-effect on players rating. No Kidding.. So why can't ya trimming them down? Same thing happens when a player is below weight and they only let you trim them down??? I don't get it! Now a rookie thats signed before camp you have an option to select from either trim down or bulk up. And rookies that hasn't signed yet you can't make any weight changes. I understand why because they haven't signed...But why can the rookies get the choice of bulk up or trim down But the vets if he's over weight can only bulk up more vise versa for underweight players... Thanks for any input..

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