Browns owner Randy Lerner says Mangini's job safe for now

[Bearcat729]

Only a year too late I guess.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...rner_says.html

Browns owner Randy Lerner says Mangini's job safe for now, but team will add 'serious, credible' leader
By Mary Kay Cabot
November 01, 2009, 8:27PM

CHICAGO -- Randy Lerner admitted Sunday that he's "sick about" the 1-7 Browns -- but not enough to fire coach Eric Mangini during the upcoming bye week.

When asked specifically if he'd make a coaching change, the Browns owner said no.

"I think I should evaluate me," he said, only half-jokingly.

He indicated that he wasn't ready to give up on Mangini despite being obviously distraught about the state of the team. But he did strongly indicate that it's time for him to bring in a football authority who can help straighten out this mess.

"There's absolutely no question about that," he said. "The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way. I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."

Exactly what he means by that, he didn't really say. But it sounded as if he's prepared to hire a team president to try and get this team on track. He's already brought former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar on as "another pair of eyes," but didn't respond when asked if Kosar could be the "serious leader" to "guide decisions."

Ideally, Lerner said his person would be someone that's been groomed to do the job and has a vast amount of experience. He said the person may or may not already work for the Browns.

During Sunday's 30-6 loss to the Bears, Lerner stood watching from the tunnel between the field and the locker room with equal parts disgust and anger written on his face.

He admitted that the whole quarterback fiasco "doesn't look sensible." As to why the Browns have been so reluctant to play Brady Quinn, he said "I haven't been told about anything."

There's no question he's fed up. There's also no question he doesn't really know exactly what to do about it.

"We need as many credible, serious eyes and ears assessing this situation as is possible," he said.

Lerner said part of the problem is that he thought he was on the right track when he hired former General Manager Phil Savage in 2005. He said he thought the organization would be in great shape after four years of Savage acquiring talent and re-organizing the operation. Instead, it wound up lacking all of the things he thought he was getting from Savage and Romeo Crennel: great drafting, coaching, and an overall philosophy and direction.

Now, it seems he's questioning his decision to hire Mangini -- which came almost without any consideration to any other coach or general manager. Part of him seems to think that Mangini deserves more time to implement his program and acquire talent. The other part seems to wonder if he made a mistake and should cut his losses.

Problem is, he's still in the midst of paying the $20 million to Savage and Crennel owed when he fired them after last season. If he fires Mangini and Kokinis, he'll be on the hook for many millions more.

Surely the news that former Steelers coach Bill Cowher might return to coaching next year has to intrigue him. Lerner tried to lure him out of the television business after last season and couldn't. That's when he turned to Mangini.

Meanwhile, Mangini also will be re-evaluating everything during the bye week, including coaching and personnel.

Lerner made it clear several times during the short interview that he wanted time to gather his thoughts and that he wasn't really ready to elaborate on his mindset. He said he wanted "a day or two to wrap my mind around it. There's a lot going on right now."

As for what the fans can expect, he said, "I don't know that I have a great answer for what to hang your hat on right now, other than a massive amount of thought and analysis and reflection and personal honesty is going to go into thinking about what's going on.

"The answer is soul-searching."

[Greyroofoo]

So was there an actual protest by the fans today?

[stevew]

The protest is supposed to be the Dog pound being empty during the kickoff of the monday night game. Which i believe is right after the bye week.

I hate the Browns, and their fans generally suck, but they deserve better than this shit. It's not even funny anymore how bad this franchise has become.

[Chief Rum]

I wish Donald Sterling would be this candid.

[stevew]

For the rest of the season the Browns would make a perfect test case for running the wishbone(or similar spread option based attack) in the NFL. I think they'd be much more likely to win more games trying it than to continue to be conventional and suck. At this point, I'd be starting Cribbs at QB. He can probably throw good enough to make it work.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

For the rest of the season the Browns would make a perfect test case for running the wishbone(or similar spread option based attack) in the NFL. I think they'd be much more likely to win more games trying it than to continue to be conventional and suck. At this point, I'd be starting Cribbs at QB. He can probably throw good enough to make it work.

He'd have a hard time doing worse than Derek Anderson at this point.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

For the rest of the season the Browns would make a perfect test case for running the wishbone(or similar spread option based attack) in the NFL. I think they'd be much more likely to win more games trying it than to continue to be conventional and suck. At this point, I'd be starting Cribbs at QB. He can probably throw good enough to make it work.

Yes, but their coach is Mangini. He's too much of an idiot to try anything experimental. Just watch any of their games, the are barely running the wildcat at all, despite the fact that they clearly need to get the ball to Cribbs and Jerome Harrison a lot more.

[CleBrownsfan]

I can't even comment on this... It's sad that I watched the Colts/49'ers game over the Browns yesterday since both were on. It's not all coaching - the Browns have absolutely NO talent on their team.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yes, but their coach is Mangini. He's too much of an idiot to try anything experimental. Just watch any of their games, the are barely running the wildcat at all, despite the fact that they clearly need to get the ball to Cribbs and Jerome Harrison a lot more.

The offense runs much better when you give the ball to Jamal Lewis so he can plow into the line for 3 yards 20 times per game.

[Butter]

The o-line didn't actually look that bad against Chicago yesterday, but it's hard to tell if that was the Browns line playing well, or Chicago's defense just not being very good.

[albionmoonlight]

Growing up as a Saints fan, I remember that there were still years where, even though the team was owned, coached, and managed horribly, they could sometimes luck into an 8-8 season. I wonder if that's because--other than one or two dynasty teams at any given time--most of the NFL was pretty average.

Now that the NFL has become such a competitive business, I wonder if that has changed. Teams stuck with bad management like the Browns, Rams, and Lions cannot get lucky against "average" teams because the gulf between suck and average is so much larger than it used to be. Basically, an 8-8 team today would have been a Super Bowl contender twenty-five years ago based on how much time and money an NFL team needs to spend on player evaluation and coaching just to be 8-8.

Free agency also adds to this. Just a couple of offseasons where you missed the boat, and all your great players leave and you replace them with garbage. You need to be putting in 100 hour weeks all of the time just to keep your team at .500.

If a typical year in the 70s used to be: Steelers/Cowboys, one or two pretty good teams, [Huge Space], everyone else. Now a typical year may be: one or two elite teams, everyone else, [huge space], Browns/Lions/Rams.

[Warhammer]

For clarity, in the 70s, the Rams were the first team to win their division 7 straight seasons, from '73-'79.

[JPhillips]

I think Mangini is one of the worst coaches in the NFL, but a combo of Jesus, Vishnu and the Spirit in the Sky couldn't get much out of this offense. Trading away all your weapons leaves you without weapons.

[flere-imsaho]

The Agony of being a Browns Fan | Pro Football, in Cartoons!

[miami_fan]

This stat says alot. Amazing.

From Peter King's column today

Stat of the Week

I've made this point in the last couple of weeks, and it's more true now than it has been all season: The Cleveland Browns are no better off today than they were 10 years ago, when they were an expansion team, in the middle of their first season back after a four-year absence from the league.

Just look at the quarterback play. In 1999, the season's midpoint came on Oct. 31. This year, it came on Nov. 1. Comparing the numbers of Tim Couch, who started Games 2 through 8 in 1999, and Derek Anderson, who has played all but the first 10 quarters this year:

Year Player Team W-L Comp-Att Pct. Yards TD Int Rating
1999 Tim Couch 1-7 104-196 .530 1,161 7 5 72.3
2009 D. Anderson 1-7 66-154 .429 681 2 9 36.2

[larrymcg421]

Don't worry Browns fans. Cam Cameron is rebuilding his reputation just in time to replace Mangini.

[Mantle2600]

Supposedly we just fired our GM, so we got that going for us.

[Maple Leafs]

Kokonis fired, according to twitter?

[Mantle2600]

dola...

Cleveland Browns general manager George Kokinis was escorted out of the team's facility Monday afternoon, a television station and newspaper reported, but team owner Randy Lerner said coach Eric Mangini would not be joining him.

WKYC and the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported Monday night that Kokinis was ushered out of the Berea facility by security around lunchtime Monday and believed to be fired. Kokinis was brought in to helm the team after the Browns had hired Mangini, who coached last year with the New York Jets.

It's the first major change for a Browns team that has struggled in all aspects of the game and fell to 1-7 with a 30-6 loss to the Chicago Bears on Sunday. Lerner said Sunday night he is "sick" about the state of his NFL team but he will not make a coaching change.

An upset Lerner told the Plain Dealer and Akron Beacon-Journal on Sunday that he would not fire Mangini during the club's bye week. Lerner did say he would like to bring in a "strong, credible, serious leader" to help run his team.

Lerner did not expand on who that person might be or if that person currently worked for the Browns. He recently brought in former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar in an unspecified consulting role.

"The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way," Lerner said Sunday, according to the Plain Dealer. "I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."

Mangini said he would be open to such a hire.

"If you can add quality people that can help you get better, then you do that," Mangini said. "You're always searching for those opportunities."

Kokinis was supposed to be that person. Mangini handpicked him to be the team's GM -- both began their careers in Cleveland in the early 1990s when Bill Belichick was coaching the Browns.

A source told the Plain Dealer "Kokinis is a great guy who does not deserve this. He is taking the fall for the team's problems and it's not right.''

The Plain Dealer reported that Lerner had tried to get Kokinis to take a more visible role as the team's GM, encouraging him to be interviewed recently by Sports Illustrated.

Days earlier, the Browns had dismissed Erin O'Brien, the team's director of team operations. O'Brien was an assistant to Mangini with the Jets.

Kokinis, who had 18 years worth of NFL experience , was the final voice on the Browns' 53-man roster.

Mangini's job security was not a topic in Cleveland's locker room, which was mostly vacant Monday.

Linebacker David Bowens, who played for Mangini in New York, feels the coach's system may not take hold until the team starts winning.

"Part of the problem is we have a lot of guys on this team that have been used to losing, been used to being on teams that have won a lot of games and don't understand the process," Bowens said. "I think just selling out and buying in. I firmly believe in just hard work and execution. The coaches can coach their tails off, they can get two hours sleep a week, but they're not playing the game.

"A lot of mistakes are made by us as players. Once we assess that and just buy in, commit ourselves to each other, I think things will change."

Mangini believes his process for turning around the team will work despite a horrid first half of the season. Mangini said he and Lerner share the same vision for improving the Browns.

Mangini and his coaching staff will spend the next week -- the Browns don't play again until Nov. 16 -- evaluating and analyzing every aspect of the team. Despite Cleveland's offense being ranked 31st overall and scoring just five touchdowns, Mangini has no plans to change offensive coordinator Brian Daboll's duties.

However, he may rely more on quarterbacks coach Carl Smith, a former offensive coordinator with New Orleans and Jacksonville.

Mangini's also holding off on making a decision at quarterback. Derek Anderson posted a 10.5 rating in Sunday's debacle before he was yanked in the final minutes for Brady Quinn, who began the season as Cleveland's starter but was benched after just 10 quarters.

Mangini lamented Cleveland's five turnovers, including two fumbles -- one by rookie wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, the other by tight end Steve Heiden -- following completions by Anderson that sabotaged potential scoring chances. Mangini felt the Browns were moving the ball and Anderson can't be judged solely on his atrocious statistics.

"You never just want to look at the numbers, you want to always look at it in the context of the game," Mangini said.

Anderson's numbers are impossible to ignore.

According to STATS LLC, his 36.2 QB rating is the lowest of any player through eight weeks since Oakland's Marc Wilson in 1981. Also, Anderson's 320 yards passing in the past four games are the fewest by any quarterback with a minimum of 80 attempts since Chicago's Vince Evans in '81.

Anderson, meanwhile, said he's "not happy about anything."

"I'm not happy that I got pulled out, I'm not happy we lost, I'm not happy about anybody's play, my play, nothing," he said. "I haven't been happy."

Mangini, too, is dismayed by the losing but remains confident the Browns will improve.

"This is a process," Mangini said. "We [Mangini and Lerner] talked about that quite a bit, and that doesn't change. There's things that go along with that and that doesn't mean we're not looking to win every game, it doesn't mean we're not looking to improve each week. On the contrary, that's exactly what we're going to do.

"Randy and I share the same vision and that's something that we talked about and what we do talk about quite a bit is what's the best way to achieve that. I've always had good conversations with him and always will."

Mangini said he shared Lerner's distaste for the Browns' putrid performance so far.

"But I also believe in the things that we're doing and I understand it doesn't happen overnight," he said. "There's not one formula in terms of specific ingredients, but there is a very specific approach that you have to take and I believe in that. It has been successful. It will be successful here."

In acknowledging the disappointment with the season, Lerner has agreed to meet with two longtime season-ticket holders organizing a protest to show their disgust with the team's decade of losing.

Two fans, Mike Randall and Tony Schafer, have been urging fans to stay away from their seats for the opening kickoff of the Nov. 16 nationally televised game against Baltimore. The pair have a meeting scheduled with Lerner on Tuesday morning at the team's headquarters.

Randall, who's also known as "Dawg Pound Mike," plans to present Lerner with over 2,000 e-mails he has received from fans since announcing the "walk-in" protest. Randall says he hopes to persuade the ultraprivate Lerner to speak directly to Cleveland's fan base.

Randall said he and Schafer spoke briefly with Lerner before Sunday's game. In planning their demonstration for before the Monday night game against the Ravens, the fans had hoped to force Lerner and Cleveland's front office to address growing concerns about the club's direction as well as a lack of connection to the Browns' storied past.

"They are listening," Randall said. "We know that Randy cares and we don't want him to sell the team. Our goal is to get him to talk to the fans so we know what's going on. We're going to talk to him about a lot of things from stadium operations to the atmosphere on game days to our frustration that the fans are not being heard."

Randall said he and Schafer would spend Monday night putting together a formal presentation for Lerner, who took over ownership of the Browns after his father, Al, died in 2002. Lerner has been criticized by some Cleveland fans for not being more outspoken and available.

Lerner's ownership of English soccer club Aston Villa has been viewed by some as proof that he doesn't care about the Browns, who are on their fourth coach since 1999.

[miami_fan]

They had to escort him from the training facility with security? Seriously?

[stevew]

Kok down. I wonder if Man lasts through the bye.

[Mantle2600]

Originally Posted by stevew

Kok down. I wonder if Man lasts through the bye.

you mean mangina

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by stevew

Kok down. I wonder if Man lasts through the bye.

Unless Mangini quits I think he lasts the season. I would like to see Daboll fired though.


I hold out hope that if they get rid of Mangini that maybe Gruden can come to Cleveland with a new GM. My first choice would be Cowher, but I cannot see him coming to Cleveland anymore.

[stevew]

Will Mangina ever have another job in the NFL? He has already thrown 2 close confidants under the bus.

I'm thinking he will end up as a college coordinator next. Unless he still has a bridge left that I don't know about.

[MrDNA]

We're one geriatric owner away from being the Raiders. Sigh.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

We're one geriatric owner away from being the Raiders. Sigh.

Luckily our owner has another team to play with. I would hate to see what Lerner would do without Aston Villa to keep him distracted part of the time.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

They had to escort him from the training facility with security? Seriously?

It's pretty common these days, even for routine layoffs. Don't want former employees to have access to company resources for even a minute after they know they've been let go.

[stevew]

is the Browns Lerner the brother of the Nats owner? I thought he owned both but that's not the case.

[stevew]

Dola
The Kosar thing looked to me as the organization taking care of someone who had fallen on bad times. But is he seriously supposed to be part of the decision making process?

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dola
The Kosar thing looked to me as the organization taking care of someone who had fallen on bad times. But is he seriously supposed to be part of the decision making process?

From what I understand Kosar still doesn't know what his role is right now either.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Mantle2600

Supposedly we just fired our GM, so we got that going for us.

If you fire a GM less than a year after hiring him, that seems promblamtic. They didn;t even have that much of a chance to impact the team yet.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

If you fire a GM less than a year after hiring him, that seems promblamtic. They didn;t even have that much of a chance to impact the team yet.

Kokinis was hired as GM after Mangini was hired to be coach. This was Mangini's guy. I am betting Mangini threw him under the bus to keep his gig a little bit longer.

[cuervo72]

Browns thread >> Redskins thread

[DeToxRox]

Looks like Ernie Acorsi is going to be a consultant and help groom Bernie Kosar to be the GM, or so I read on a Browns forum.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Luckily our owner has another team to play with. I would hate to see what Lerner would do without Aston Villa to keep him distracted part of the time.

I have nothing to offer on the Browns situation, but would just like to add that Lerner is considered a great example of foreign ownership in England.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Kokinis was hired as GM after Mangini was hired to be coach. This was Mangini's guy. I am betting Mangini threw him under the bus to keep his gig a little bit longer.

I am betting that Lerner is only keeping Mangini until the end of the season to go after a Shanahan/Cowher type to be coach/GM. Why fire Mangini and hire someone the team might play hard for? They might accidentally win a game and screw up the #1 draft pick.

[fantom1979]

The Browns signed Phil Savage to a five year contract after the 2007 season, and Romeo Crennel to a 2 year contract after 2007, so the Browns are now paying for 3 GMs (assuming they replace Kokinis), and two head coaches.


Edit: I just read that Kokinis was fired "with cause", so the Browns might not have to pay him.