WHY arent time outs being used?

[Koprnkc]

WHY are timeouts not being used at the end of games? My team has 3 TOs, the other team is pinned deep in their end, under 2:00 minutes, and we LET them run 3 times to burn up the clock. We USE only 1 TO, to stop the clock, and we are down 28-25. WTH.

Since the patch, the endgame logic is WORSE now then ever. This is 2 games now that this has happened to me. Sorry to rant, and I know this the 2nd time I have posted about this issue.

Cincinnati: Pro formation with two tight ends, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, keying aggressively on the run.
1-10-CIN16 (4Q: 01:43) John David Crow ran inside the right guard for 2 yards. Tackled by DT Jim Hunt. PENALTY: Cincinnati was called for Offensive Holding.

Cincinnati: Single-Back formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 and 2-deep bump-and-run coverage, keying aggressively on the run.
1-18-CIN08 (4Q: 01:35) John David Crow ran inside the left guard for 2 yards. Tackled by S Bobby Morgan, assisted by OLB Mike McGill.

Cincinnati: Single-Back formation with four receivers, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 with nickel personnel and 1-deep, bump-and-run coverage, expecting the run.
2-16-CIN10 (4Q: 00:50) John David Crow ran inside the left tackle for 3 yards. Tackled by S Bobby Morgan.

Richmond called a time out.

Cincinnati: Single-Back formation with four receivers, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 with nickel personnel and 1-deep, bump-and-run coverage, expecting the run.
3-13-CIN13 (4Q: 00:40) Charlie Harraway ran inside the left tackle for 5 yards. Tackled by DE Jerry Mays. Harraway made a great move on Dick Washington.

As you can see we called 1 TO out in a 1:35 seconds.

Makes you wonder why bother putting time into gameplanning if your going to get undermined by the endgame AI. Hmm, wheres that REX button.

[MIJB#19]

Did you have your hurry up offense setting at 1 minute?
Did the game call a time out for you after that 5-yard run on 3rd and 13?


What is an issue here is there's 8 seconds off the clock after a penalty play to the CIN offense.

[ozias]

The penalty for holding won't give back the time.

A False start would, as the play wouldn't even start, but for Offensive holding the play continues, and then the penalty is applied.

[Koprnkc]

Originally Posted by ozias

The penalty for holding won't give back the time.

A False start would, as the play wouldn't even start, but for Offensive holding the play continues, and then the penalty is applied.

This not the issue.

[Koprnkc]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Did you have your hurry up offense setting at 1 minute?
Did the game call a time out for you after that 5-yard run on 3rd and 13?


What is an issue here is there's 8 seconds off the clock after a penalty play to the CIN offense.

The issue is that with a 1:43 and 3 TOs, an Offense was able to run out the clock. And my defense only used 1 of its TOs.

After the first 2 yard run, we should have called TO. Instead, WE let 45 seconds tick off the clock, let them run a 3 yard play, then use our 1st TO.

Then, with 40 seconds left, they run 5 yards, and and the game ends. This is where the 3rd and final TO should have been used.

After each run, the Defense should be calling a TO, and had it, my offense would have recieved the ball around mid field with close to a minute left.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ozias

The penalty for holding won't give back the time.

A False start would, as the play wouldn't even start, but for Offensive holding the play continues, and then the penalty is applied.

I stand corrected. Thank you sir.

[tarcone]

2-14-VEG17 (4Q: 02:54) Brian Chamberlin ran inside the right tackle for 7 yards. Tackled by S Irv Stevenson.
(4Q: 02:54) Los Angeles called a time out.
3-7-VEG24 (4Q: 02:45) Bobby Bowden ran outside the right tackle for 10 yards. Tackled by CB Jack Fleming, assisted by DE Isaac Gerhardt. Key block delivered by Marcus Goodwin.
Official time out for the two-minute warning.
1-10-VEG34 (4Q: 02:00) Brian Chamberlin ran inside the right guard for 1 yard. Tackled by DE Stanley Lane.
2-9-VEG35 (4Q: 01:14) Omar Bigelow ran inside the left tackle for 3 yards. Tackled by DT Otis Briggs, assisted by DE Vernon Sullivan. PENALTY: Los Angeles was called for Offsides.
2-4-VEG40 (4Q: 01:14) Sammy Ingram ran around right end for 0 yards. Tackled by S Stan McDaniel, assisted by OLB Trent Collier.
3-4-VEG40 (4Q: 00:27) Sam Ritter ran around right end for 7 yards. Tackled by DE Stanley Lane, assisted by DE Isaac Gerhardt. Key block delivered by Sammy Ingram.
(4Q: 00:27) Los Angeles called a time out.
1-10-VEG47 (4Q: 00:18) Bruce Wallace dropped to one knee for -1 yards.


EDIT: Vegas was ahead 24-23 at the begin point of this post

[OldSchool]

I don't think even Jim has any clue what's going on with end of half logic at this point.

[Jughead Spock]

Don't know if it matters, but more grist for the mill - WAS, down by 3, all timeouts left. Would've been awfully nice to be able to try one or two more plays to get closer than a 57-yard attempt.

1-10-WAS26 (4Q: 01:38) Tom Skeen scrambled for 5 yards. Tackled by S Wayne Kushto.

2-5-WAS31 (4Q: 01:16) Tom Skeen pass fell incomplete, intended for TE Dana Burke. DE Brandon Gray hurried the quarterback into a bad throw. The defense looked very familiar with that play.

3-5-WAS31 (4Q: 01:08) Tom Skeen pass completed to WR Deron Wohlman for 9 yards. Tackled by CB Ronald Hoover.

1-10-WAS40 (4Q: 00:50) Tom Skeen pass completed to WR Deron Wohlman for 15 yards. Tackled by S Stephen Karluk, assisted by CB Antonio Stuart. Wohlman gained 1 yard after the catch. Denver's Courtney Donovan was hurt on the play. This appears to be a minor knee injury. He should be able to remain in the game.

Washington called a time out.

1-10-DEN45 (4Q: 00:40) Tom Skeen pass was thrown incomplete, intended for WR Albert Porter.

2-10-DEN45 (4Q: 00:34) Tom Skeen pass fell incomplete, intended for TE Donald Foley. S Wayne Kushto defended the pass. The defense looked extremely familiar with that play. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.

3-10-DEN45 (4Q: 00:26) Tom Skeen pass fell incomplete, intended for WR Albert Porter. DE Danny Watson hurried the quarterback into a bad throw. The defense looked very familiar with that play.

4-10-DEN45 (4Q: 00:20) Tom Skeen pass was dropped by WR Lenny Weaver. The defense looked very familiar with that play. The quarterback threw into double coverage. The ball goes over on downs. PENALTY: Denver was called for Defensive Holding.

1-10-DEN40 (4Q: 00:13) Alonzo Pauley attempted a 57 yard field goal and missed short of the crossbar.

[Jughead Spock]

Just to beat the dead horse further, similar thing happened in another MP league. I was down by 3, other team had the ball just under the 2 min. warning. Stopped three runs, but only used one time out. They attempted (and missed) a field goal as time ran out.

[miked]

This is teh gay.

[Ben E Lou]

The sad thing about this is that for 58 to 58 1/2 minutes of all games, and 60 minutes of some, 6.3/6.3a is a HUGE, HUGE leap forward for FOF, but this issue is going to obfuscate that fact for a lot of people.

[miked]

Only if it doesn't get fixed.

[Dandelion]

The same problem can be found during the last minutes of the first half.. lotsa missed opportunities for FGs.. sometimes getting ahead at halftime with 3 pts more might make a difference in the end..

[Steel]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

The sad thing about this is that for 58 to 58 1/2 minutes of all games, and 60 minutes of some, 6.3/6.3a is a HUGE, HUGE leap forward for FOF, but this issue is going to obfuscate that fact for a lot of people.

More like 56 minutes. 2 min logic in the 1st half is ridiculous as well, not just the end of game. There have been games where my settings are to play pass heavy against a pass heavy team, then all of a sudden, we go into a semi-aggressive run D right before the half and give up an easy TD. It's beyond frustrating, and we feel helpless on how to correct the issue.

[jdavidbakr]

Originally Posted by Steel

More like 56 minutes. 2 min logic in the 1st half is ridiculous as well, not just the end of game. There have been games where my settings are to play pass heavy against a pass heavy team, then all of a sudden, we go into a semi-aggressive run D right before the half and give up an easy TD. It's beyond frustrating, and we feel helpless on how to correct the issue.

Just a thought, maybe it's related to the defensive playcalling skills? I believe Jim has said that what you call depends partly on what the offense calls and whether your playcalling skills will choose an appropriate defense for it. Perhaps you're going to see more run D in a pass-heavy situation just because the dice roll against your playcalling skills requires that you choose the wrong defense.

[Lintyfresh85]

Happened to me pretty bad today.

Had three time outs to use...

Guess my coach didn't think it was worth trying to let the offense score to win the game. We believe in moral victories here at Pearl Harbor.

Yuma: Strong formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 and 1-deep, man-to-man coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 1-10-YUM31 (4Q: 01:14) Lee Nichols ran outside the right tackle for -2 yards. Tackled by S David Roth.

(4Q: 01:14) Pearl Harbor called a time out.

Yuma: Single-Back formation, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 and 3-deep zone coverage, keying aggressively on the run. Micalles is blitzing. 2-12-YUM29 (4Q: 01:06) Jamal Graham ran inside the left tackle for 1 yard. Tackled by OLB Rod Dow, assisted by DE Glen Jamison.

Yuma: Single-Back formation with four receivers, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 with nickel personnel and 4-deep zone coverage, expecting the run. 3-11-YUM30 (4Q: 00:20) PENALTY: Yuma was called for a False Start.

Yuma: Single-Back formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 and weak-side man, otherwise cover-7 zone coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 3-16-YUM25 (4Q: 00:20) Jamal Graham ran inside the left guard for 3 yards. Tackled by DT Jose Booker.

Final Score: Yuma Aces 14, Pearl Harbor Defenders 13

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Lintyfresh85

The defense is in a 34 with nickel personnel and 4-deep zone coverage, expecting the run.

This remains my all-time favorite FOF defensive playcall, and wish there was a way to not call it.

[tarcone]

1-10-OAK42 (4Q: 02:44) Malcolm Stevenson ran inside the right tackle for 5 yards. Tackled by DT Cedric Calixto, assisted by OLB Shane Morrison. Key block delivered by Paul Quinn.
Official time out for the two-minute warning.

2-5-OAK47 (4Q: 02:00) Warren Douglas ran around the left tackle for 6 yards. Tackled by ILB Jon Jarvis. Key block delivered by Lance Cash.

1-10-VEG47 (4Q: 01:15) Warren Douglas ran around the left tackle for 9 yards. Tackled by ILB Jon Jarvis, assisted by ILB Keith Coleman. Key block delivered by Adrian Justus

(4Q: 01:15) Vegas called a time out.


2-1-VEG38 (4Q: 01:03) Eric Kerska kept the ball, running inside the right guard for 0 yards. Tackled by OLB Joel Jefferson. The ball was fumbled and recovered by VEG DE Rick Makovicka for 15 yards to the OAK47. Tackled by Warren Holmes.

1-10-OAK47 (4Q: 00:56) Bruce Wallace pass fell incomplete, intended for WR The Playa Harden. S Raymond Nabonsa defended the pass. The quarterback threw into double coverage.

2-10-OAK47 (4Q: 00:46) Bruce Wallace scrambled for 2 yards. Tackled by S Deon Hanks.

3-8-OAK45 (4Q: 00:27) Bruce Wallace pass completed to TE Amos Reedy for 21 yards. The receiver went out of bounds. Tackled by CB Jonathan Schneider. Reedy gained 9 yards after the catch. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage. PENALTY: Oakland was called for Illegal Use of the Hands by the Defense.

1-10-OAK40 (4Q: 00:15) Bruce Wallace pass completed to WR Mitch Seal for 12 yards. The receiver went out of bounds. Tackled by S Deon Hanks, assisted by OLB Bryce Rodriguez. The quarterback threw into double coverage.

1-10-OAK28 (4Q: 00:07) Bruce Wallace pass completed to TE Amos Reedy for 22 yards. Tackled by CB Orlando Harden, assisted by ILB Bernie James. Reedy gained 21 yards after the catch. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.
Final Score: Oakland Predators 23, Vegas Husslers 17

A couple things. Again no timeouts. And the acceptance of a 5 yard penalty instead of a 21 yard gain.

[Dutch]

And the acceptance of a 5 yard penalty instead of a 21 yard gain.

Doh!

[Koprnkc]

Yeah, that happened to me right after the patch 6.3. Only it cost me a 45 yard completion that had me in FG range to tie a game with 3 seconds left. Needless to say, we loss.

That was posted in the bug section, prior to patch 6.3a, so it appears it was not addressed in the patch of the patch.

[w24olfpack]

Game situation.
Athens just scored to make it 18-28. Dublin starts from their own 20. At 2.56 left Athens calls first time out. Dublin gets first down and clock goes to the Two Minute Warning. Athens two timeouts remaining.

Dublin runs, no time out. Dublin runs again, no time out. Dublin runs and is stopped short and then misses a FG with 0.07 left on the clock.

Athens goes to sleep tonight with two timeouts in pocket.

Dublin: Single-Back formation with trips receivers, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 with nickel personnel and 3-deep zone coverage, expecting the pass. Brown is blitzing. 1-10-DUB20 (4Q: 05:14) Lamar Smith ran around the left tackle for 18 yards. Tackled by CB Fred Vinson, assisted by S Dana Hall. Key block delivered by John Tait.

Dublin: Weak formation, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 and 3-deep zone coverage, expecting the run. 1-10-DUB38 (4Q: 04:29) Lamar Smith ran outside the right tackle for 3 yards. Tackled by OLB Chad Brown, assisted by DE Alvin McKinley.

Dublin: Single-Back formation with four receivers, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 with dime personnel and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, keying aggressively on the pass. Vinson is blitzing. 2-7-DUB41 (4Q: 03:43) Lamar Smith ran around left end for 10 yards. Tackled by DE Shane Dronett. Key block delivered by Roger Duffy.

Dublin: I formation, strength is left. The defense is in a 43 with nickel personnel and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, expecting the pass. Wong is blitzing. 1-10-ATH49 (4Q: 02:56) Errict Rhett ran around right end for 6 yards. Tackled by DE Alvin McKinley. Key block delivered by Troy Auzenne.

Athens (GA) called a time out.

Dublin: Single-Back formation with trips receivers, strength is right. The defense is in a 43 with nickel personnel and 3-deep zone coverage, expecting the pass. 2-4-ATH43 (4Q: 02:47) Lamar Smith ran around the left tackle for 3 yards. Tackled by CB Fred Vinson, assisted by DE Chad Frye.

Dublin: Single-Back formation with four receivers, strength is right. The defense is in a 43 with nickel personnel and weak-side man, otherwise cover-7 zone coverage, expecting the run. 3-1-ATH40 (4Q: 02:01) Lamar Smith ran around right end for 2 yards. Tackled by CB Duce Schrock. Key block delivered by Harry Boatswain.

Official time out for the two-minute warning.

Dublin: Weak formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 43 and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 1-10-ATH38 (4Q: 01:52) Errict Rhett ran around right end for 4 yards. Tackled by S Dana Hall, assisted by OLB Rickey Perkins.

Dublin: Single-Back formation with trips receivers, strength is right. The defense is in a 43 and 2-deep bump-and-run coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 2-6-ATH34 (4Q: 01:05) Errict Rhett ran around right end for 3 yards and was forced out of bounds. Tackled by S Dana Hall, assisted by DE Keith Hamilton. Athens (GA)'s Jamal Williams was hurt on the play. This appears to be a very serious ankle injury.

Dublin: Single-Back formation with four receivers, strength is right. The defense is in a 43 with nickel personnel and 1-deep, man-to-man coverage, expecting the run. 3-3-ATH31 (4Q: 00:55) Errict Rhett ran around left end for 0 yards. Tackled by DE Alvin McKinley, assisted by CB Fred Vinson.

4-3-ATH31 (4Q: 00:07) Todd Peterson attempted a 48 yard field goal and missed wide to the right.

Athens (GA): Pro formation with two tight ends, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 with dime personnel and 3-deep zone coverage, keying aggressively on the pass. Grant is blitzing. 1-10-ATH38 (4Q: 00:02) Tom Brady pass fell incomplete, intended for WR Ryan Yarborough. DE Uhuru Gruttadauria hurried the quarterback into a bad throw. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.

Final Score: Dublin Wee Folk 28, Athens (GA) Wolfpack 18

[OldSchool]

Just to add to this...down by 7 and we only used one timeout while they were clock-killing with under 2 minutes to go and on our subsequent drive. Luckily we channeled Les Miles and somehow got out with the win, but at least one more of those timeouts should've been used, we let him kill 48 seconds on one play...

Official time out for the two-minute warning.
2-9-GRN21 (4Q: 01:59) Roman Barber ran around left end for 0 yards. Tackled by DT Jorge Leopold.
3-9-GRN21 (4Q: 01:11) Roman Barber ran inside the right tackle for 4 yards. Tackled by DT Kevin Compton, assisted by ILB Glenn Lemmon.
Charleston called a time out.
4-5-GRN25 (4Q: 01:00) Myron Irwin punted 48 yards. Jermaine Lake returned the kick 7 yards to the CHA34. Tackled by Casey LaBounty.
1-10-CHA34 (4Q: 00:53) The Shark Tarkenton pass completed to WR Henry Fletcher for 27 yards. The receiver went out of bounds. Tackled by CB Lawrence Roberts. Fletcher gained 11 yards after the catch.
1-10-GRN39 (4Q: 00:41) Leroy Tarkenton pass completed to TE Rico Pichardo for 17 yards. Tackled by OLB Matthew Shuger, assisted by CB Lawrence Roberts. Pichardo gained 9 yards after the catch. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.
1-10-GRN22 (4Q: 00:20) Leroy Tarkenton pass fell incomplete, intended for TE Rico Pichardo. DT Andre Fe'esago hurried the quarterback into a bad throw.
2-10-GRN22 (4Q: 00:14) The Shark Tarkenton pass fell incomplete, intended for TE Rico Pichardo. DE Leon Marek hurried the quarterback into a bad throw. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.
3-10-GRN22 (4Q: 00:04) The Shark Tarkenton pass completed to WR Henry Fletcher for 22 yards and a TOUCHDOWN! Greenville 24, Charleston 23
(4Q: 00:04) Extra point by Desmond McGuinness was good. Greenville 24, Charleston 24

[zullojer]

it finally happened to me, very disheartening.

Official time out for the two-minute warning.

4-6-BUF24 (4Q: 02:00) Duane Rousseau attempted a 41 yard field goal and missed wide to the left.

Buffalo: Pro formation with two tight ends, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 and 2-deep bump-and-run coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 1-10-BUF31 (4Q: 01:55) Cedric Patterson ran inside the left tackle for 1 yard. Tackled by DT Hardy Poland, assisted by S Tyrell Reichenberg.

Buffalo: I formation with two tight ends, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 and 2-deep man-to-man coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 2-9-BUF32 (4Q: 01:10) Cedric Patterson ran around left end for 2 yards. Tackled by S Tyrell Reichenberg.

(4Q: 01:10) Philadelphia called a time out.

Buffalo: Strong formation with two tight ends, strength is left. The defense is in a 34 and 2-deep bump-and-run coverage, keying aggressively on the run. 3-7-BUF34 (4Q: 01:01) Cedric Patterson ran around left end for 1 yard. Tackled by OLB Grady Barthwell.

4-6-BUF35 (4Q: 00:16) Bubba Summers punted 48 yards. Shane Gounod called for a fair catch at the PHI17.

Philadelphia: Weak formation, strength is right. The defense is in a 34 with dime personnel and 3-deep zone coverage, keying aggressively on the pass. 1-10-PHI17 (4Q: 00:08) Dana Farmer pass completed to WR Joel Smith for 8 yards. Tackled by CB Joey Manning. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.

Final Score: Buffalo Bills 10, Philadelphia Eagles 7

[Jughead Spock]

I finally tallied and culled up examples of how many times it's happened to me so far. Of 30 games, across three leagues, it's been a problem in 14 of them. And that's just end of game, I didn't look at end of half.

I did send it to support. This has GOT to get fixed.

[Jughead Spock]

DOLA - if the answer is 'don't watch Solevision', that will probably be the end for me.

[Hoya1]

This seems to affect quite a few games.......errr, more than I had anticipated. With lower scores and competetive gameplanning, there are a lot of games that have close scores at the end of the game. I could live with issues at half time, but the feeling of being "robbed" at the end of games, might cause a lot of people to be discouraged.
I'm not sure how easy it is to even go back to the "old" end of game/half logic at this point. However I think the game would be far better because of it.

Here's to hoping this gets addressed!!!

and to Jim for making a game that I still play after 10yrs!