PureSim Baseball 4 - Open Beta Starts tomorrow (through April)

[Shaun Sullivan]

Trying a new approach this year, we are opening up the development builds to all folks that pre-order.

Details on PureSim 4 Open Beta here.

Shaun

[sabotai]

Did you un-retire again?

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Did you un-retire again?

[sabotai]

I think I need to keep going - Wolverine Studios

Found it!

[sovereignstar v2]

Can I do the beta if I buy a pair of Wrangler Jeans?

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Can I do the beta if I buy a pair of Wrangler Jeans?

Would you believe I just got nine stitches on my chin?

Also, I sent some great text messages.

[lighthousekeeper]

Since I never really played PureSIm (though I think I bought a past version once), can someone describe what PureSim does that OOTP doesn't do, and vice versa?

[A-Husker-4-Life]

This is off topic but Shaun have you ever thought of creating a Football text game?

[Young Drachma]

I'd be happier if it were an iPad app. Just saying

[braggtd]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

This is off topic but Shaun have you ever thought of creating a Football text game?

+1 Shaun.

If you made a college football text I would be there ASAP! Another feature that would win my love is if you created multiple modes. Mode 1, the full game as it is with your new bells and whistles. Mode 2, an Inside the Park type of game where you get in the action. I loved Inside the Park baseball. I am guessing the sales were horrible for SIGAMES.

[Izulde]

ITP happened long, long, long before OOTP/SI had their brief merger, BTW. In fact, I think it might have even been back in the .400 Studios days.

[fantom1979]

ITP was released on December 19, 2003.

SI/OOTP merger was announced in May of 2004.

[Shaun Sullivan]

I have started and stopped many times on PureSim football's design. Seems it would have to be everything FOF has and then much more (I am assuming a modern UI on FOF would simply not be enough to get folks interested?) That makes it a huge task.

In my early 40's now, so unless I quit my real job (not happening!), an endeavor of this size remains a bit out of reach. In my late 20's and 30's I could code all night, sleep for 2 hours and go to work, no problem. These days, I am yawning at 11:00

Of course, if you all buy PS4, then I would have a foundation to build a business on, and then Football would go into production

[Icy]

With WS already working in a football game and with your huge baseball experience, i would prefer an ITP sports RPG game mode based on Puresim (where you control your player). It could be sold either as an addon to puresim or standalone game or even as a web game.

I'm dying for a good sports RPG, MLB the show has a good one on "road to the show", EA games have decent ones with Be a Pro in FIFA and NHL and there is also the mode in NBA2k11, but in all them you can see that the RPG and "sports world around you" aspects are really poorly done, as those companies care more about the joystick players.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Shameless plugging continues (sorry)...

Added some nice new Sabermetric reports in the lates beta

[Philliesfan980]

Shaun, what would you say your main focus is in Pure Sim 4? Also, are you planning on sticking with it this time? Not to sound rude, or disrespectful in any way, but I think your "on and off" relationship with this product is holding back some buyers.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Shaun, what would you say your main focus is in Pure Sim 4? Also, are you planning on sticking with it this time? Not to sound rude, or disrespectful in any way, but I think your "on and off" relationship with this product is holding back some buyers.

I have always stuck with every release in the game's history, supporting all of them with hundreds of tweaks and features, patches etc.

I have never abandoned a release where people paid for it. I think it is a somewhat unfair characterization. I have always prided myself in fanatical support of each release through updates and listening to the community.

For reference, here is the list (from memory) of officially released and supported editions from 2002-2010 - along with when I announced dramatic retirements

PureSim Baseball (Indie)
PureSim 2002 (Indie)
PureSim 2004 (Indie)
- Canceled .400 Studios "Total Pro Baseball" Release in here I think -
- retirement -
PureSim 2005 (Indie)
PureSim 2005 Second Edition (Matrix Games)
PureSim 2007 (Matrix Games)
- retirement -
Announced New Wolverine Baseball game (never released)
- retirement -
PureSim Freeware (Indie)
PureSim Baseball 2 (Wolverine)
PureSim Baseball 3 (Wolverine) Also made FREE to all that bought PureSim 2
- retirement (2 weeks lol) -
PureSim Baseball 4 (Wolverine, currently in development)

I am certainly a victim of being very open with users as none of my hiatuses would have even been noticed if I just kept my mouth shut.

I think 8 years of releases is a pretty good track record, regardless. I have been balancing a demanding, full time job and PureSim on the side since 1998, and have 4 kids etc, so in the past I have had to step away when the stress got too high, or when there was a possibility it was encroaching on performance at my "real" job.

Fair question BTW

[Shaun Sullivan]

Didn't answer the "focus" question, sorry.

PS4 is all about polish and tweaking of existing AI, UI, Engine etc. I'd characterize it as a back to basics release with much more focus on making what is there even better and adding the tons of little touches that make a difference.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mmmm - sabremetrics!!!! YAYY!!!!

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

I have always stuck with every release in the game's history, supporting all of them with hundreds of tweaks and features, patches etc.

I have never abandoned a release where people paid for it. I think it is a somewhat unfair characterization. I have always prided myself in fanatical support of each release through updates and listening to the community.

For reference, here is the list (from memory) of officially released and supported editions from 2002-2010 - along with when I announced dramatic retirements

PureSim Baseball (Indie)
PureSim 2002 (Indie)
PureSim 2004 (Indie)
- Canceled .400 Studios "Total Pro Baseball" Release in here I think -
- retirement -
PureSim 2005 (Indie)
PureSim 2005 Second Edition (Matrix Games)
PureSim 2007 (Matrix Games)
- retirement -
Announced New Wolverine Baseball game (never released)
- retirement -
PureSim Freeware (Indie)
PureSim Baseball 2 (Wolverine)
PureSim Baseball 3 (Wolverine) Also made FREE to all that bought PureSim 2
- retirement (2 weeks lol) -
PureSim Baseball 4 (Wolverine, currently in development)

I am certainly a victim of being very open with users as none of my hiatuses would have even been noticed if I just kept my mouth shut.

I think 8 years of releases is a pretty good track record, regardless. I have been balancing a demanding, full time job and PureSim on the side since 1998, and have 4 kids etc, so in the past I have had to step away when the stress got too high, or when there was a possibility it was encroaching on performance at my "real" job.

Fair question BTW

Thanks for the well thought out response Shaun. In looking back at my original question, I probably should have worded it differently. I can only imagine the general problems of being an Indy developer who has a full time job as well. For the record, I've purchased at least two of the PureSim products (your most recent product, and another one of your past versions, I forget which one it was), so I'm a fan of your work. I wish you had more commercial success, because I think if you could work on this sort of stuff full time, you might be able to put out the best products in the text-sim world.

As for what I really want, I want a "one-pitch" High Heat mode style game. A game that I can get through in about 20 minutes, and see some action on the field. Add Lehman database support so we can create our own teams, a way to create stadiums, and I'd be a happy camper. Heck, I would even be ok with not having career mode in the first version. Have you ever looked into this?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

...Heck, I would even be ok with not having career mode in the first version. Have you ever looked into this?

What?? No career mode??

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

What?? No career mode??

Yeah, I guess I'm so starved for a graphical manage only mode (1 pitch is the key) that I'd sacrifice career play while the underlying game engine was being worked on.

Who knows, maybe The Show will put one pitch mode in this year. They already have manage only mode in the game, but it just takes way too long to get through a game (about an hour and a half).

[DanGarion]

Multiplayer leagues.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Since I never really played PureSIm (though I think I bought a past version once), can someone describe what PureSim does that OOTP doesn't do, and vice versa?

since i already own ootp, is there any incentive to purchase PureSim?

[Tim Tellean]

Why not grab the PS3 demo and see for yourself.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Tim Tellean

Why not grab the PS3 demo and see for yourself.

It's on PS3??!?!?!?

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Tim Tellean

Why not grab the PS3 demo and see for yourself.

too lazy and/or busy.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

too lazy and/or busy.

Probably my cue to leave. Not sure why I post here anymore, desperation maybe Have a good one, I am gone.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

Probably my cue to leave. Not sure why I post here anymore, desperation maybe Have a good one, I am gone.

wait...what?

[Comey]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

wait...what?

1) Either Shaun misunderstood and thought he was being called lazy...

2) He saw the posts and, based on lighthousekeeper stating he's too lazy to download PureSim 3 and check it out, but wants to be sold on the game rather than actually check it out, he feels that trying to pitch the game here is pointless.

Really, between this and Gary's issues when DDSPB2 came out, I can't say I blame him too much. The lack of common respect from even just a few people here, towards those trying to keep the text sim community alive is amazing.

[DaddyTorgo]

Seriously

[lighthousekeeper]

yikes. i was just stating that i'm lazy.

what i was really trying to do on 2 occasions was to prompt shaun to describe why i and other ootp customers should be interested in puresim. if i was in his position i would try to make it very clear why puresim is superior to ootp (lord knows there's so many possibilities) and drive those selling points home. as a baseball junkie i'm certainly open to jumping ship from ootp to another franchise.

[cubboyroy1826]

Heck no need to jump ship why not own both?

[Young Drachma]

Conversely, the past consensus is that PureSim from the perspective of the hard core OOTPer is a more incisive sim that's good at the details of baseball and isn't as focused on the customization that OOTP offers. So while OOTP continues to frustrate people who want a baseball sim that's atuned to nuances of baseball, PureSim will annoy someone who is used to expanding their league, customizing to the high heavens and creating near-galactic permutations of baseball simulating that you can pretty much come up with and every version I've used simmed slower than OOTP, too.

The problem is, you have Baseball Mogul that still has leagues and a following built around it, which offers the cracker jack version of baseball simming for people without the energy to immerse themselves in the graduate level complexity that OOTP offers and then you have what amounts to a third-way solution in PureSim, which pretty much everyone agrees is a solid simulation, but save for the purists who use it (heh), other people haven't been convinced it's truly a gamechanger that would make you want to switch.

I personally think mobile is the way to go. It's an open space, there are legions of customers who'd go with you there and then you have an entire market from which to build, rather than pursuing the same strategy in the hopes of picking off a few flies. Especially with an engine that's already built and so forth.

Or the oft-mentioned online text sim idea. I think in an era where people can stay constantly connected, the future of the text-sim relies on a less bulky model that lets people interface with their team in a flexible, portable way because it'd increase immersion that you can't right now from always having to run a desktop app.

Sure those are more expensive and thus, you get better margins and so forth. But, it's a shortsighted way of looking at it where essentially by lowering the barriers to entry in terms of cost, you get more people willing to dabble with the product and a higher possibility of attracting lasting converts if you reach the space first.

I realize a lot of this is speculative and based on a 50,000 ft. view of things, but...it's just how I see it.

If I had the resources, I'd just do it myself...but that hasn't been feasible yet and I'm not sure it will be by the time it matters/while I have a passion for it. But that's usually how it goes with things like this.

[jbergey22]

Good post Dark Cloud.

Im hoping for the best for Shaun this time around. I know the PS3 sales werent all he had hoped for. Im hoping with a release more around opening day he will do much better.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

Probably my cue to leave. Not sure why I post here anymore, desperation maybe Have a good one, I am gone.

huh?

[spleen1015]

This might shed some light on Shaun's reaction...

Looks like the retirement sagas have "sullyed" my reputation - Wolverine Studios

I think he has misinterpreted a couple of comments and now he feels insulted or not appreciated.

[MizzouRah]

To me, Puresim is between Mogul and OOTP - which isn't a bad thing whatsoever.

I don't think I'm going to be a part of the PS4 beta because I haven't really played PS3 all that much due to OOTP.. but I'll still support Shaun and hope he continues to refine his game and make the AI as tough as it can be.

Puresim should appeal to those who find ootp too much and want to play more of a ootp 6.5 version.

From what I can read, historical simmers also like Puresim quite a bit.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

This might shed some light on Shaun's reaction...

Looks like the retirement sagas have "sullyed" my reputation - Wolverine Studios

I think he has misinterpreted a couple of comments and now he feels insulted or not appreciated.

A lot of fair responses in that thread, not sure why Shaun would get upset at what I see as a fair question by Philliesfan980.

[Young Drachma]

Didn't see anything in that thread or this one that was particularly rude. But to each their own, I guess.

[Passacaglia]

Not only that, if his complaint was with Phillies's question (as he seems to indicate), why'd he respond for a while, wait two days, then quote someone else's post on his way out? How bizarre.

[Alan T]

It seems to me that mostly he is coming across as if he passionately wants his creation to become a hit really badly and lukewarm reception is crushing his spirit a bit right now.

My guess is that it isn't personal, he's just suffering from some form of disappointment perhaps. Say something similar to how someone might feel about a huge purchase (say car or house) a few weeks after the purchase is made and the initial high wears off.

He just needs to take a step back and realize that while he isn't Sony, he still does have at least a small number of passionate fans that love his work and do appreciate him. To me this whole exchange just seems to indicate that he is human.

(I've never bought or played Puresim before other than trying a few demos several years ago, but I do usually follow these threads and wish him the best in his development)

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It seems to me that mostly he is coming across as if he passionately wants his creation to become a hit really badly and lukewarm reception is crushing his spirit a bit right now.

My guess is that it isn't personal, he's just suffering from some form of disappointment perhaps. Say something similar to how someone might feel about a huge purchase (say car or house) a few weeks after the purchase is made and the initial high wears off.

He just needs to take a step back and realize that while he isn't Sony, he still does have at least a small number of passionate fans that love his work and do appreciate him. To me this whole exchange just seems to indicate that he is human.

(I've never bought or played Puresim before other than trying a few demos several years ago, but I do usually follow these threads and wish him the best in his development)

What I find intriguing is that he admitted that Puresim is not his full time job, but he seems to expect a reaction as if it is the most remarkable product ever created. I mean no disrespect to Shaun, but you can't have it both ways. If you do something like game development, you should expect to get mixed reactions most of the time, and the expectations are going to be higher everytime you create a good product. The little bit that I have dabbled with the Puresim series left me impressed, but baseball text sims are in a niche market, and there is competition for him with OOTP and Baseball Mogul.

Hopefully he will come around again and keep us updated with the progress of PS4, I think it looks really good so far.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

It's on PS3??!?!?!?

I just now realized that this is a joke, and it's not really on PS3.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Shaun Sullivan

Probably my cue to leave. Not sure why I post here anymore, desperation maybe Have a good one, I am gone.

I'm sure he'll come back when training camp ends.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It seems to me that mostly he is coming across as if he passionately wants his creation to become a hit really badly and lukewarm reception is crushing his spirit a bit right now.

My guess is that it isn't personal, he's just suffering from some form of disappointment perhaps. Say something similar to how someone might feel about a huge purchase (say car or house) a few weeks after the purchase is made and the initial high wears off.

He just needs to take a step back and realize that while he isn't Sony, he still does have at least a small number of passionate fans that love his work and do appreciate him. To me this whole exchange just seems to indicate that he is human.

(I've never bought or played Puresim before other than trying a few demos several years ago, but I do usually follow these threads and wish him the best in his development)

I would agree with this.. Shaun is very passionate about Puresim and I also think when the reception is not there, it bums him out.. like it would anyone. Heck, even Gary was a bit bummed at little reception DDSPB received at first.

Shaun has a tough market for his game with ootp and mogul out there to choose from as well.

That's why I figured a football game or hockey game would do well as far as a text sim goes since honestly.. there is not that much competition right now for either.

I'm anxious to see what he dreams up for PS4 though and will continue to follow his progress!

[Philliesfan980]

Just seeing this for the first time now.

I thought I bent over backwards to clearly indicate what others were probably thinking (and I'm glad that others in the thread on the WS forums backed my suspicions up), and to indicate that I'm a paying customer of a few of his products. The fact that he went out of his way to post a link to my comments in another forum, without even giving me a courtesy "Heads-up" via PM, is absolutely absurd. He was probably doing so to get some "hey, that guy is an idiot, don't listen to him" type messages, but then it completely backfired when people actually agreed with me, and then he took his ball and went home. It just is another example of his over-emotional, irrational behavior that he's been showing over the last few years.

As mentioned, I've tried to be nice to him, but you know what? Fuck him. I can personally guarantee that I'll never buy one of his products again or refer someone else to buy his product.

And if you're reading this Shaun, here's a tip - nobody gives a damn that you have 4 kids, a wife, and another full time job. When you charge for a product, people aren't going to give you a free pass with that excuse. Granted, you've done some freeware work in the past, but the bottom line is you primarily charge for your products.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Just seeing this for the first time now.

I thought I bent over backwards to clearly indicate what others were probably thinking (and I'm glad that others in the thread on the WS forums backed my suspicions up), and to indicate that I'm a paying customer of a few of his products. The fact that he went out of his way to post a link to my comments in another forum, without even giving me a courtesy "Heads-up" via PM, is absolutely absurd. He was probably doing so to get some "hey, that guy is an idiot, don't listen to him" type messages, but then it completely backfired when people actually agreed with me, and then he took his ball and went home. It just is another example of his over-emotional, irrational behavior that he's been showing over the last few years.

As mentioned, I've tried to be nice to him, but you know what? Fuck him. I can personally guarantee that I'll never buy one of his products again or refer someone else to buy his product.

And if you're reading this Shaun, here's a tip - nobody gives a damn that you have 4 kids, a wife, and another full time job. When you charge for a product, people aren't going to give you a free pass with that excuse. Granted, you've done some freeware work in the past, but the bottom line is you primarily charge for your products.

I have to come back to answer you in particular. I was not upset with you at all! Look at the content of the post you are talking about. My actual post was (emphasis mine):

"Fair question by "Philliesfan980" on the FOFC board (read down in thread). Hurt my feelings, but I sure understand where he is coming from!

I certainly don't see that as an attack on you! Your post was actually insightful. Me an a long time puresim player got into it a little but we are all good now

No need to swear at me, wow.

[Ksyrup]

Getting back to the game for a minute...

I fired up PS3 last night and simmed through a replay season (1980). Was very happy with the results - KC and Philadelphia ended up in the WS, and the Phillies won in 6 games - but one thing I noticed while looking through the stats was that at the end of the season, when I looked at a team's stats, the only stats shown were for the players on the roster at the time.

So for instance, Steve Carlton happened to be on the DL at the end of the season, so his stats weren't shown as a part of the team despite throwing 266 innings and going 20-9. It would be much better if every player who accumulated a stat was shown on that page, with the stat line totals at the bottom. Does that make sense? So if a team trades a guy mid-season, he would still show up in the stats of his old team so that the cumulative stats add up (if a team wins 90 games, all the pitchers wins totalled up would equal 90). It's hard to get an idea of how a season went if all we're seeing is just the guys on the roster at any given moment (especially if we're looking at it at year-end).

Another question I have - is there any way to increase the size of the screen? As it stands, either way you can run this game, it barely takes up 2/3s of my screen. I would much prefer it fit my laptop screen and just be bigger, if nothing else. It frustrates the hell out of me to have a huge amount of space on either side that is useless.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Just seeing this for the first time now.

I thought I bent over backwards to clearly indicate what others were probably thinking (and I'm glad that others in the thread on the WS forums backed my suspicions up), and to indicate that I'm a paying customer of a few of his products. The fact that he went out of his way to post a link to my comments in another forum, without even giving me a courtesy "Heads-up" via PM, is absolutely absurd. He was probably doing so to get some "hey, that guy is an idiot, don't listen to him" type messages, but then it completely backfired when people actually agreed with me, and then he took his ball and went home. It just is another example of his over-emotional, irrational behavior that he's been showing over the last few years.

As mentioned, I've tried to be nice to him, but you know what? Fuck him. I can personally guarantee that I'll never buy one of his products again or refer someone else to buy his product.

And if you're reading this Shaun, here's a tip - nobody gives a damn that you have 4 kids, a wife, and another full time job. When you charge for a product, people aren't going to give you a free pass with that excuse. Granted, you've done some freeware work in the past, but the bottom line is you primarily charge for your products.

Last post Phillie, I promise

I just remembered I answered you directly, and politely in this thread and even said there that you had a fair question, so I am not sure why I got your wrath.

You are right, it doesn't matter that I have a wife and four kids. I only point that out to convey that my hiatuses between games were usually driven by other factors beyond me being over-emotional and mercurial (guilty on both in the past for sure as well.)

Hopefully we can make peace, I don't need a flame war, it might get me so upset that I retire again