Surround Sound Systems

[Sun Tzu]

Hey all. So, I'll be moving into my house next week (escrow signing is Thursday) and for the first time ever, I'll be getting myself a nice surround sound system. I'm leaning toward a 5.1 system with a mid-high end AVR. I use my PS3 as a Blu-ray player, so no need to pay extra to have the built in player...I'm also not interested in 3D. The room is pretty big, and there's no crawlspace under the house, so I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to set up the speakers yet. I've looked into getting raceways, but for the length of raceways I'd need it would run me damn near $150 (not including paint for the raceways) for materials. I've also considered doing in-wall wire running, but I'm guessing I'd have to run the wire up into the attic for that to work. So...

I'm wondering who here has a braggable set-up, if you were the one that installed it and whether you have any pointers to share. Thanks in advance!

[STK]

You should consider a Rocketfish wireless speaker kit (I got mine at BB). I had the same types of questions around handling all the wiring and I have found the wireless route to be fantastic. The setup was relatively painless and I have no "lag" with the sound quality in a fairly large room.

Might be worth a look.

[Travis]

Also, likely worth your time to fully explore just what you'll need in a receiver if you're using a PS3 in your setup. My understanding is that the PS3 can do a lot of the work receivers used to be relied upon, so long as your receiver is able to do HDMI pass through of both the audio and video signal.

If that is the case (and again, I'm nowhere near an authority on that), then your main concern is getting a receiver that is strong in other areas (power, # of HDMI connections, etc) and may not have to worry so much about what codecs it's able to handle.

[cubboyroy1826]

Congrats Sun glad to hear your are moving in.

[MrBug708]

I'd wait til some surfer/skater drives by in an old Van and offers you a great system for $300!

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Travis

Also, likely worth your time to fully explore just what you'll need in a receiver if you're using a PS3 in your setup. My understanding is that the PS3 can do a lot of the work receivers used to be relied upon, so long as your receiver is able to do HDMI pass through of both the audio and video signal.

If that is the case (and again, I'm nowhere near an authority on that), then your main concern is getting a receiver that is strong in other areas (power, # of HDMI connections, etc) and may not have to worry so much about what codecs it's able to handle.

****Disclaimer: The number one service/product that I built my company on is high end theater rooms and in home sound systems. I AM an audio snob and more anal about it that any customer I've ever had. I have personally installed over 100 surround systems and my company has done over 2,000 since 2001*****

With that backdrop.
If it is a one story house wiring through the attic is UBER simple, I'm talking 2.5 hours complete install including wiring and balancing for an experienced tech simple.

The PS3 will not take the place of a good quality AVR, it does not have the capacity to adjust and lay out your room/balance your system anywhere close to a decent AVR. (Sidebar, I LOVE SONY products, was there NA integrator/installer of the year 3 consecutive years, but their audio handling is hot garbage. Not everyone is going to pay for HK but a $99 Yamaha receiver at Best Buy will laugh at the best thing SONY has to offer)

5.1 would be my recommendation, it's what I have in my personal house, though not in the one we are starting to build this spring...

Stay away from wire mold/raceways it is ugly, gets worse with age and screams cheap. You would be better buying the aforementioned wireless speakers than wiremold...and I can't believe I just said that.

Speaking of wireless speakers, they are ok for a starter set, they have came a long way in the lag department, its the sound quality and spectrum breadth where they drop the ball.

Probably goes without saying, but avoid BOSE at all cost...

That said a few questions.
Whats your budget? It cant be avoided you gotta set one, are you looking to put a full system together for under $500 or are you willing to spend twice that on a receiver?
What is your primary viewing material?
How big of a room are you working with?

[k0ruptr]

Sounds like CU Tiger knows his shit.

[k0ruptr]

also, I know some stuff and honestly if you care about sound quality at all don't go wireless yet. pretty much what CU said... wireless is great for convenience but thats about it.

Also just throwing this out there, I've heard decent stuff if your budget is kinda low (300-600ish) about Onkyo .
I think it also depends on what its going to be used for mainly, Movies? Gaming? Music? all 3? Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[Raiders Army]

Sorry, this is off-topic to the thread but what's the best soundbar to get for a large room?

[Travis]

Okay, an honest question here. When I mentioned the PS3 earlier, I wasn't by any stretch recommending it as a replacement for a receiver, but rather something to look into to potentially save yourself money.

If there are two receivers that do everything else the same aside from which codecs they can decode and there is a decent difference in price because of that feature alone, wouldn't the PS3's ability to do that decoding make it worth saving the money?

I know usually there will be some other differences (different number of HDMI, power, etc) but if those are fairly minimal differences?

Also, wouldn't the firmware updating that has upgraded the PS3's decoding abilities (I'm assuming that they'll continue to do that going forward) mean that you should be able to get a longer life span out of a receiver at this point? When I was shopping around for mine most of the sales guys were saying the life cycles of the receivers seemed to coincide more with new audio codecs (that older models couldn't do much with) coming out than almost any other factor.

That said, in the end I went with a mid range Denon and have been very happy with it.

[stevew]

I don't follow. The PS3 has no audio inputs. Unless you are discussing the way it can handle a blu ray movie and output the audio to a receiver?

[Travis]

Yes. It was my understanding (again, limited at best) that the PS3 could handle a lot (if not all) of the high def audio codecs that are being used for blu-rays (and that comparable type codecs weren't common if used at all through cable/satellite as that source would be piped directly into the receiver) and pass that through the receiver for the receiver to then do the rest of the work.

[Mountaineer]

Here is a great setup on sale for $269.00 at Newegg

ONKYO HT-S3300 Home Theater in a Box
Average Rating 4/5(63 reviews)
Newegg.com - ONKYO HT-S3300 Home Theater in a Box

This 5.1 channel receiver comes with Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio decoding for audio that sounds like what the producers had in mind. The Audyssey DynamicEQ dynamically adjusts the EQ settings as the volume is changed so dialogue will always be clear.

You can even integrate an iPod or MP3 player via a front-panel input, or take advantage of Onkyo’s new DSP modes for gaming: Rock, Sports, Action, or Role Playing Game (RPG). As an entry-level home theater system, the HT-S3300 gives you an incredible listening experience.

Onkyo included speakers with this system that are tuned to work with the receiver. All the connectors and included cables are color coded to make things easier to connect. Get the sound you dreamed of from Onkyo!

[stevew]

I liked the onkyo setup i had. I would probably suggest springing 500 for the 6300 setup, simply because the AVR has 1080p upscaling.

[Qwikshot]

This stuff confuses the heck out of me. I have a PS3, I have a 46" Sony Bravia, my sound right now is setup through a BOSE 3-2-1 connect, and I'm fine with it...but I'd like to go to Surround Sound at some point.

So if I purchased the ONKYO, that would be the receiver? I would send the HDMI cable from the PS3 and my Xbox to that (my Bravia has 3 HDMI inputs).

The Bose is about 10 years old, never had an issue with it for sound...but it is fake surround sound.

[CU Tiger]

Think of the AVR as the traffic director.
All your inputs feed here.
Then it selects outputs based on your preferences.
Generally your TV is just a monitor at this point, and internal on board speakers are disabled.

With a Quality AVR set up you only need 1 HDMI input on your TV and that comes from the AVR. Add a quality programmable remote and your are 1 button from switching anything you want.

On the advanced end, your imagination is your limit. In our current house we have surround in our family room and in our basement game room. I can drop a single dvd in a hall closet and both TVs and both speakers systems will be synced and we are "broadcasting" a movie to 2 different theaters in our house. Another cool trick we love to have friends over and grill out on Sundays during NFL season. I have a pair of speakers in ever room of our house and 3 pair on our deck. I can through a custom set send the cable feed audio to any speakers I select. So everyone is sitting around the living room watching the game and I have the sound piped to our deck as well so when I walk out to check on the grill, I stay right in line with the audio even though I cant see the TV.

One final thought, don;t go buy a receiver and hook your bose speakers into it without knowing exactly what you are doing.aside from just being overpriced they actually use some oddbal stuff that if no used in their system has the potential to cause damage.

[Sun Tzu]

I have the specs (room dimensions) somewhere...but not immediately available. I do know that the wall that the TV will be mounted on is 16 feet from the wall the couch will sit up against. I'll post the full dimensions as soon as I get them back. I'd like to keep it under $350-$400 for the entire shebang, including installation. If you don't mind explaining...how would I go about going through the attic? Will I need any permits? What height are you supposed to mount the speakers at? Here's what my system will (ideally) look like.

* 55" 1080p LED LCD TV. Either a Sony, Samsung or Vizio.
* 5.1 Surround Sound that will mainly play movies, and (occasionally) music. I'm not a big action movie buff...I prefer dramas and thrillers. I listen to classical and classic rock, so "a bumpin' bass" isn't something high on my list. In fact, in every car I've ever owned, I turn the factory bass down because it bugs me.
* PS3
* Custom Built Media Center PC (where I typically play most of my Blu-ray rips...er...pandora )
* Wii

[lordscarlet]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you're going to ge tmuch of anything for $350-400. My soundbar cost more than that, I think.

[Sun Tzu]

I think the ONKYO systems that everyone is talking about run around $400, if not a little less...I could be mistaken.

[Travis]

Another thing to keep a watch for is for bundle sales. Not the Home Theater in a box setups, but just sales where the store pairs receivers with speakers and/or other pieces.

When I was looking (a couple of years ago now) I really set my sights on an Onkyo model before finding out that they were nearly 3x the price in Canada as they are in the US. Revamped my search to really concentrate on brands that were more readily available up here and ended up getting really lucky as FutureShop ran a sale that paired a Denon receiver (which was very close spec wise to the Onkyo I had been looking at) with Energy speakers (one of about 5 sets I had narrowed my search down to) with the package sale price being about $50 more than what they normally sold the receiver for. There was a blu-ray player thrown in as well that I regifted but all told the savings on the package was pretty huge (essentially 50% off).

Given the price range you're looking at wanting to stay in, if you're not in a huge rush and can wait for a sale on the pieces you want, might be the best way to get the best quality you can for the price you want to pay.

[Sun Tzu]

Great advice Travis. I've heard nothing but fantastic things about Denon, especially having worked for the old "Big Blue" Best Buy (known as Future Shop in Canada) a while back myself. Thanks for the tip.

How are the Energy speakers? I remember seeing a highly reviewed set of those online for relatively cheap, minus a receiver.

[Travis]

We've got both up here (FutureShop and BestBuy) and they make up for a majority of my electronics spending

The speakers have been really, really nice. I've been looking into gradually replacing them with a nicer set and want to stay inside the Energy family given my experience so far as well as that of a co-worker who had an older set than mine when he first started working here and has upgraded since and has loved both systems he's had.

The only complaint I've had about my setup at all since getting it is that my receiver only has 2 HDMI in ports so I ended up having to add a HDMI switch to be able to run everything through it that I'd like, but even then, a quick visit to monoprice and it's run like a dream for my HDPVR, PS3, laptop, camcorder and anything else I can think of to run through it.

[Sun Tzu]

Good to know...I will need at least 3 HDMI in ports myself. DVR, HTPC and PS3.

[Sun Tzu]

Question re: AV Receivers...

I'm considering getting a Sharp Aquos 52" LED, which has a special mode called "gaming mode" that eliminates lag from the controller when playing games. I'm guessing that this "mode" has to be turned on in a specific HDMI port/input, but if I'm only going to be using one port/input (because everything will be plugged into the receiver) doesn't that create an issue? In other words, will I be forced to turn on this weird gaming mode while I'm watching a movie, or Baseball or what have you? Anyone know anything about this stuff?

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Question re: AV Receivers...

I'm considering getting a Sharp Aquos 52" LED, which has a special mode called "gaming mode" that eliminates lag from the controller when playing games. I'm guessing that this "mode" has to be turned on in a specific HDMI port/input, but if I'm only going to be using one port/input (because everything will be plugged into the receiver) doesn't that create an issue? In other words, will I be forced to turn on this weird gaming mode while I'm watching a movie, or Baseball or what have you? Anyone know anything about this stuff?

For this reason, I got an AVR that I thought would be on par with my Samsung Plasma for video upscaling to 1080p so I could leave my Plasma in game mode(that and I dont like the HDMI handshake delay between the various devices and the AVR, then the AVR with the TV...so I eliminated the AVR to TV part).

[SteveMax58]

Dola,

To answer your question more specifically. You don't have to use game mode for gaming...or any other reason necessarily. I don't personally see a difference on my TV in game mode vs. any other mode.

[stevew]

Cough up the extra dough for the 60" quattron. That TV is awesome.

[Sun Tzu]

60" would be too big for the size living room we have...the TV isn't about $$$.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

60" would be too big for the size living room we have...

Sounds like someone bought too small of a house.

[Sun Tzu]

Pffff

The distance from TV wall to couch wall is just under 17'...

My research tells me that 50-55" should be ideal. I've never had to turn on any sort of gaming mode before on other TV's and I've owned my fair share of LCD's and LED's already. Is Sharp known for lag or something?

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

The distance from TV wall to couch wall is just under 17'...

My research tells me that 50-55" should be ideal.

I sit about 11 feet away from my 58" Panny VT25 plasma. I wish that it were larger. It was not practical to go up to the 65" model but I wish that I could have. If your research includes actually sitting at that distance while viewing a tv that size -- and it looks fine -- then you should be good to go. But if you're simply reading "Ideal Viewing Distances for HDTV" articles online then I would reevaluate.

[Sun Tzu]

Right now in the condo I'm in, I sit about 15 feet from a 46" tv and it almost seems a bit big. I had to adjust from the 37" I was using for a few months. I think 52" is pushing it for me...personally. Anyways, that has nothing to do with the question I'm asking re: lag and gaming modes.