History of the Text Sim

Ajaxab · 05-26-2011, 11:16 AM

I'm writing a book chapter on the history of the sports video game and wanted to draw on the collective wisdom of FOFC about text sim history. I was wondering if anyone knew about text sims that existed before Championship Manager. I would probably put MicroLeague Baseball and Football in this category and have a vague recollection of a text-based football game on cassette tape for my Commodore 64, but can't remember its title. But beyond that, are there text sims pre-Champ Man that anyone out there remembers?

gstelmack · 05-26-2011, 11:19 AM

Earl Weaver Baseball on my Amiga back in like '89, Head Coach Football around the same time (same platform). Those were the two earliest I remember. Front Page Sports Football came along after those. I don't know where Championship Manager fits in the spectrum.

lighthousekeeper · 05-26-2011, 11:21 AM

Statis Pro Baseball was my first sports text sim.

GB64.COM - C64 Games, Database, Music, Emulation, Frontends, Reviews and Articles

1986

Ajaxab · 05-26-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Earl Weaver Baseball on my Amiga back in like '89, Head Coach Football around the same time (same platform). Those were the two earliest I remember. Front Page Sports Football came along after those. I don't know where Championship Manager fits in the spectrum.

Weaver was a bit of a crossover because it allowed you to either play out the games by controlling your players or manage exclusively. I loved that game. I still have books full of stats from the seasons I played out a game at a time.

I want to say Champ Man began in '93/'94, but need to double check that.

Thanks for the tip on Statis Pro, lighthousekeeper. If I remember right, Avalon Hill did a few sports games. That's a good lead.

dfisher · 05-26-2011, 11:35 AM

Lance Haffner games had a bunch of games at least in the early 90's (maybe earlier). I had Courtside College Basketball, the baseball game, the college football game, and the wrestling game. It was basically season replays.

JPhillips · 05-26-2011, 11:42 AM

There was a text based college football sim for Atari that was late eighties. I have no idea what the name might have been.

There was also a late eighties baseball sim that I can remember entering stats into to create teams.

JediKooter · 05-26-2011, 11:45 AM

I don't remember any pure text sim football game on the C64 back in the 80s. Not saying there wasn't, I just don't remember there being one and I bought a lot of them back in the 80s.

As for baseball, wikipedia has this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basebal...mputer_Game%29

There's this link too: STADIUM 64 - The Commodore 64 Sport Archive

The first baseball game I had for my C64 was Star League Baseball. My dad and I would keep our stats on a paper. Good times.

Radii · 05-26-2011, 11:49 AM

Computer Baseball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was my first sports game on the Atari when I was a kid. Its hard to google up more since the dang thing is named "Computer Baseball"

Shkspr · 05-26-2011, 11:55 AM

The very first professional pro text football sim I am familiar with is XOR's NFL Challenge, released in 1985. It featured real NFL rosters (though I think only uniform numbers were used), and an interesting hotseat playstyle where players would go head-to-head on the same machine using laminated playbooks to imput formations and plays. The action on the field played out using Xs and Os, just like we all wish Jim would get off his butt and do for FOF.

It appears as though early superstar programmer Dan (Dani) Bunten wrote a two-player football game in 1979 for the Apple II. After that the floodgates opened in 1984-1985 with a host of football games that relied on playcalling. Touchdown Football, subLogic Football, Super Sunday - I'm not sure any of them really required much joystick activity. Maybe subLogic.

As far as baseball goes, SSI's Computer Baseball takes the early crown, I think. I must have spent years compiling stats for every game I played on that system That was probably 1981 or 1982. Other early series included Earl Weaver Baseball, which showed up in the late '80s, Microleague, which was around the same time, and Tony LaRussa, which would have been early '90s. There was a branded Pete Rose baseball game I remember which was stat driven, but was odd because the player notation was weird.

One old, old game that deserves mention is SBS, the Strategic Baseball Simulator. I don't even know if it was a commercial program, but the idea was that you would input whatever team you wanted to play with as a stat file, literally just typing the stats you wanted to use into Wordpad, and then you could simulate seasons in seconds. I think it was around in the early to mid '90s.

With the exception of Omni-Pro and TV Sports Basketball, there was almost no management games in hoops that I know of until Fast Break and Jump Shot Basketball began to surface. I think Microsoft had a game called NBA Full Court Press which was allegedly stat-driven, but I could never get my disk to work.

Wayne Gretzky Hockey, by Bethesda Softworks had an add-on/companion game called Hockey League Manager, I think. This would have been in the early '90s; that's the only hockey text game I played before Eastside.

For smaller sports, check out Wizard Games of Scotland. They offered text takes on soccer, horse raing, greyhound racing, and auto racing among other simulations. All were DOS based, and I'm pretty sure they either pre-dated or sttod alongside the early Sports Interactive releases.

Hope this helps.

JPhillips · 05-26-2011, 11:59 AM

Computer Baseball is it.

Here's some packaging materials.

http://www.elisoftware.net/index.php...Canada_Release

larrymcg421 · 05-26-2011, 12:00 PM

Superbowl Sunday was a text sim on the C64. It had graphics but those were just to show you the results of plays. You had no control over the players.

http://www.stadium64.com/gameinfos/s...bowlsunday.htm

LastWhiteSoxFanStanding · 05-26-2011, 12:11 PM

I am not sure when it came out, but I absolutely loved Tuesday Night Football by Shoestring Software. It came with the Oilers and Steelers and that was it. Had a crude field with x's and o's plus brief play by play. I think about 15 plays on offense and 7 or 8 plays on defense. And it was all text except for field goals and punts which the player controlled. It kept track of the stats for the game, but obviously there was no season mode since only two teams were included.

Virtual Apple 2 - Online disk archive -- Tuesday Night Football

JPhillips · 05-26-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

I am not sure when it came out, but I absolutely loved Tuesday Night Football by Shoestring Software. It came with the Oilers and Steelers and that was it. Had a crude field with x's and o's plus brief play by play. I think about 15 plays on offense and 7 or 8 plays on defense. And it was all text except for field goals and punts which the player controlled. It kept track of the stats for the game, but obviously there was no season mode since only two teams were included.

Virtual Apple 2 - Online disk archive -- Tuesday Night Football

I remember that from high school.

CraigSca · 05-26-2011, 12:25 PM

I had Computer Baseball for the C64. It was awesome at the time - used to run leagues on it at school. I even purchased the Stats disk (because the original program did not compile statistics) and this disk was delayed about 3 months beyond the original release date. This was during the days when you were left completely hanging when you ordered things. There was no "look online to see the status" or anything like that. At the age of 14, the best you could do was run down the street chasing every UPS truck in the hopes it was your package.

I had Superbowl Sunday and a game from Strategic Simulations (the same makers of Computer Baseball) called Computer Quarterback. Attempted to run a league with that at school but there wasn't as much interest.

CraigSca · 05-26-2011, 12:27 PM

Oh, and I remember being heartbroken when I got some kind of run-time error with Computer Baseball and realized it wasn't written in machine code. Back in the day C64 BASIC was great, but so dang slow.

Drake · 05-26-2011, 01:02 PM

My first text sim was a game called Major League Manager from Spinnaker Software. It was a single-season replay. The disk I had was 1988 rosters, I believe (plus a handful of All-Time Great teams).

(Yeah, back in the day where the whole MLB roster plus the sim engine fit on a 3.5" disk.)

JediKooter · 05-26-2011, 01:09 PM

I'd say MicroLeague Baseball was my favorite. Had all the expansion disks for it too. Got it back in 84 and am amazed that looking back at its simple graphics and game play, at how enjoyable it is compared to games out today.

cartman · 05-26-2011, 01:14 PM

Lance Haffner was one of the pioneers of computer sports simulations. He started in the early 80s.

cubboyroy1826 · 05-26-2011, 01:14 PM

I had Lance Haffner baseball for the Amiga. I played the heck out of that game and from what I remember it kept stats for you which was a big deal. My favorite by far though was Earl Weaver Baseball on my old Tandy something or another from Radio Shack.

chesapeake · 05-26-2011, 01:26 PM

My first foray into sports text sims was the aforementioned Computer Quarterback from SSI. I bought the Apple version in 1985, IIRC. I ran a 6 team league with my friends, compiling all the stats by hand. I also made up a draft system using football cards.

JAG · 05-26-2011, 01:48 PM

There was a John Madden football game for the Apple in the mid-80s (not sure what the name was) that may have had Xs and Os. I know it came with some historical teams.

Ajaxab · 05-26-2011, 02:35 PM

I appreciate all the help! It's enough to make me wonder if there might be a book in this project instead of just a chapter.

rowech · 05-26-2011, 02:59 PM

One-Nil was my first text game. Wish every game was as good as that one was.

CraigSca · 05-26-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowech

One-Nil was my first text game. Wish every game was as good as that one was.

Heh, remember that one, too!

Suburban Rhythm · 05-26-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Superbowl Sunday was a text sim on the C64. It had graphics but those were just to show you the results of plays. You had no control over the players.

http://www.stadium64.com/gameinfos/s...bowlsunday.htm

I played a similar game religiously in the late 80's. Wish I could remember the name.

All I can remembr is it was a 5.25" floppy with a gold label. I'll have to look the next time I am over my parents to see if it's in a box somewhere.

This version allowed you to play either player vs. PC, player vs. player, or PC vs. PC.

I would play agaist the PC a lot, but then started basically simming games and tracking records, team stats (no individuals), etc in a notebook for a 24-team fictious league. I remember basing teams out of places I knew of, but that didn't have an NFL team-- so you had the Honolulu Tidal Waves, Maine Lobsters, Iowa Farmers, etc...

HeavyReign · 05-26-2011, 03:12 PM

My first text sim was called The Soccer Game sometime around 1993 I think. Then I moved onto Soccer Wizard in college before finding Baseball Mogul and FOF.

Glengoyne · 05-26-2011, 03:16 PM

Definitely Earl Weaver has earned some acclaim. You could play whole seasons with your own rosters. My friends and I made a league, and played every game of the season against each other.

Other games that probably deserve some credit are the XOR college basketball games. I still think that game provided the best in-game coaching experience to date. It did lack the ability to play out a season, only offering one game and its stats at a time.

Cactus league basketball is another one that pioneered the way for the text sims of today.

JPhillips · 05-26-2011, 03:20 PM

Mobygames would be a good resource. I've found a few I didn't remember already.

JPhillips · 05-26-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I played a similar game religiously in the late 80's. Wish I could remember the name.

All I can remembr is it was a 5.25" floppy with a gold label. I'll have to look the next time I am over my parents to see if it's in a box somewhere.

This version allowed you to play either player vs. PC, player vs. player, or PC vs. PC.

I would play agaist the PC a lot, but then started basically simming games and tracking records, team stats (no individuals), etc in a notebook for a 24-team fictious league. I remember basing teams out of places I knew of, but that didn't have an NFL team-- so you had the Honolulu Tidal Waves, Maine Lobsters, Iowa Farmers, etc...

The one I played was also similar, but it had college teams. Maybe all the 1986 teams? I remember Miami being quite tough. There were also great college teams. I remember killing teams with the Dorsett Pitt team and the Dickerson SMU team.

Marc Vaughan · 05-26-2011, 03:27 PM

Arguably the first text sim as the original 'Football Manager' in 1982 - there were an absolute host of them around that time though, Football Director (by the chap who does 'MyFC' these days), The Boss etc.

There's a brief potted history here:

25 years of Football Management Games: Part 1 | FM 2007 Guides | Football Manager 2007

cartman · 05-26-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The one I played was also similar, but it had college teams. Maybe all the 1986 teams? I remember Miami being quite tough. There were also great college teams. I remember killing teams with the Dorsett Pitt team and the Dickerson SMU team.

These sound like the games from Micro Sports. They had "All American College Football", "NFL Pro League Football" and "Pro League Baseball". I used to run a college league on Prodigy back in the day. The college football game was one of the first games for online play. Each coach had to fill out a form with their settings for the game, and the commish had to enter them in.

PilotMan · 05-26-2011, 03:51 PM

I would think that if you were to truly look at the history of the sports text sim, you would have to look at the sports board game as it's true beginning. Games like Strat and Diamond Mind come to mind. And even before that, going back to the 70's where you had the card game based football games where you picked the strategy and kept score.

My first sports game was SOM Computer Baseball on the Apple IIe. I didn't even have an Apple and had to convince my mom to buy the game for me, so I could play it on my friend's computer. That would have been around 1987. I played for hours on that sitting at my friends computer. I was surprised that I was still wanted there since all I wanted to to was play on that computer.

MizzouRah · 05-26-2011, 05:30 PM

Lance Haffner basketball for the C64 was probably my first text sim.

JPhillips · 05-26-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

These sound like the games from Micro Sports. They had "All American College Football", "NFL Pro League Football" and "Pro League Baseball". I used to run a college league on Prodigy back in the day. The college football game was one of the first games for online play. Each coach had to fill out a form with their settings for the game, and the commish had to enter them in.

I looked it up and that's not it. As I recall the game was entirely text based. It know I was playing it in the late eighties before I went to college.

Senator · 05-26-2011, 06:29 PM

I played over 1000 games of Computer Quarterback by Dan (Dani) Bunten on the Atari.

Dutch · 05-26-2011, 06:31 PM

I think this is the one I played H2H with my friend...damn, it's been a long time, hard to remember now.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-26-2011, 06:49 PM

A lesser player perhaps, but one that I remember buying at least a couple of games from was Dolphin Sims, which is apparently still around as an online/email sim. Here's a link to their history, starting around 1991. http://www.dolphinsim.com/info/history.shtml

Meanwhile, I thought it was Dolphin but they don't mention it, but someone had a college baseball text sim at some point. I don't think it was a user mod of an MLB game, as I recall it was meant as a college sim from the ground up. Was that Haffner maybe?

SirFozzie · 05-26-2011, 06:58 PM

Earliest one I can remember is from 1986... that one was called radio baseball (or radio baseball featuring Abner the computer manager) from electronic arts

Radii · 05-26-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A lesser player perhaps, but one that I remember buying at least a couple of games from was Dolphin Sims, which is apparently still around as an online/email sim. Here's a link to their history, starting around 1991. http://www.dolphinsim.com/info/history.shtml

Meanwhile, I thought it was Dolphin but they don't mention it, but someone had a college baseball text sim at some point. I don't think it was a user mod of an MLB game, as I recall it was meant as a college sim from the ground up. Was that Haffner maybe?

There was a Dolphin Sims college baseball game, it was actually my introduction to how the college baseball postseason worked. I was in a college basketball league using his game as well when I was in college in the mid 90s as well.

britrock88 · 05-26-2011, 07:17 PM

My first was Tom Landry Strategy Football. It worked in season replay format, and had graphics that showed the result of every play, but the thrust of the game was in-game coaching.

Maple Leafs · 05-26-2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Wayne Gretzky Hockey, by Bethesda Softworks had an add-on/companion game called Hockey League Manager, I think. This would have been in the early '90s; that's the only hockey text game I played before Eastside.

Hockey League Simulator. Great game. You could either play it as a pure text sim standalone, or synch it with Wayne Gretzky Hockey to play the games out yourself.

First true text sim I ever remember seeing.

Maple Leafs · 05-26-2011, 07:46 PM

Not mentioned that I could see were the Sporttime/Omniplay series. There was definitely Hockey and Basketball versions, as well as a horse racing game that used a similar engine. They had ads for all the other sports but I'm not sure if they ever actually made them.

It was the first game I ever saw that had year-to-year progressions. You could actually "rebuild" with a team of young players and try to develop them over time. Great fun. You could even sim the games instead of playing them.

Just don't get stuck with the dreaded forfeit loss when you have a power failure.

LloydLungs · 05-26-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Just don't get stuck with the dreaded forfeit loss when you have a power failure.

I had forgotten about that. Those games were STRICT. I remember always being worried about that. Man I had fun with those Sporttime games. The Menlo Park Wolverines. Christ knows why I picked that name but I played like 10 million hockey seasons with em. Remember the sorta tubby referee? I hated that guy.

I played the HELL out of Lance Haffner games, though. Just an insane amount -- especially college hoops, circa 1988 all the way up to around 2000. Since you could edit the teams, I developed this somewhat elaborate recruiting system. I don't really remember how I determined guys' ratings, I just remember sticking a bunch of first and last names into a bag. And I remember using dice rolls to determine all kinds of things. I don't recall specifics, but I so badly wanted a career college basketball sim that I developed the world's most rudimentary system that, while flawed up the wazoo, allowed me to sort of have my own team with new recruits and whatnot -- even though all the other teams stayed the same.

It is not a coincidence I am a total HeavyReign fanboy here in the year 2011.

Mota · 05-26-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Hockey League Simulator. Great game. You could either play it as a pure text sim standalone, or synch it with Wayne Gretzky Hockey to play the games out yourself.

First true text sim I ever remember seeing.

I created my entire Midget (16-17 years old?) hockey league in HLS. That would mean it was about 22 years ago... wow.

One of my friends wasn't very happy when I lent him my league disc and he saw that I had ranked him as one of the worst on the team. I guess I should have done a creative edit of his abilities before giving him the disc.

Mota · 05-26-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

I played the HELL out of Lance Haffner games, though. Just an insane amount -- especially college hoops, circa 1988 all the way up to around 2000. Since you could edit the teams, I developed this somewhat elaborate recruiting system. I don't really remember how I determined guys' ratings, I just remember sticking a bunch of first and last names into a bag. And I remember using dice rolls to determine all kinds of things. I don't recall specifics, but I so badly wanted a career college basketball sim that I developed the world's most rudimentary system that, while flawed up the wazoo, allowed me to sort of have my own team with new recruits and whatnot -- even though all the other teams stayed the same.

I loved the Lance Haffner games. I really enjoyed the wrestling game, had created hundreds of guys and was running 3-5 promotions worth of fictional characters. I think I had run over 150 shows, I still have the binders here with the results, I printed them all out and even did some in the old style poster format. The only thing I didn't like is that tag team matches took forever because you had to do full damage to each guy before being able to get the pin. There were lots of 45 minute draws in the tag matches.

HeavyReign · 05-26-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

There was a Dolphin Sims college baseball game, it was actually my introduction to how the college baseball postseason worked. I was in a college basketball league using his game as well when I was in college in the mid 90s as well.

I actually still play in the college football league. The game has its flaws but I still have fun with it.

PilotMan · 05-26-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britrock88

My first was Tom Landry Strategy Football. It worked in season replay format, and had graphics that showed the result of every play, but the thrust of the game was in-game coaching.

Wow, I had totally forgotten about this game. I think I enjoyed it enough that I bought the two versions that came out. I also played tons of Lance Haffner pro and college football. Also, TKO, which was the predecessor of TBCB.

Ajaxab · 05-26-2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I would think that if you were to truly look at the history of the sports text sim, you would have to look at the sports board game as it's true beginning. Games like Strat and Diamond Mind come to mind. And even before that, going back to the 70's where you had the card game based football games where you picked the strategy and kept score.

Absolutely. I had that covered. The sports game as we know it wouldn't exist without the likes of Strat. It was the gap between the card and dice games and Champ Man I wasn't entirely sure about.

Dutch's football picture was the first football strategy game I remember playing. I got it from my parents for the Commodore 64 for Christmas '84. We had that game on cassette tape. It would take 5-10 minutes to load. You'd begin the load process and go play outside. Then you'd forget that you started loading the game and come back a couple of hours later and see the title screen. It's amazing how much patience we had back then.

LloydLungs · 05-26-2011, 10:55 PM

By the way... anybody remember a football text sim called "Head Coach"? I believe the company was Midnight Oil. It was an American football career text sim made in the UK of all places, and it pre-dated FOF. I think it even pre-dated the original Baseball Mogul. I seem to remember playing it in the mid 90s, but I don't think I ever see it brought up in "reminiscing" threads like this.

It was somewhat crude, but it did have a draft, and aging, and it was really way ahead of its time. Fictional league, but it was good enough to keep me pretty engaged for several seasons. I seem to remember the actual games being pretty fun to play out, and I'm usually someone who doesn't play out games.

Qrusher14242 · 05-26-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

My first text sim was a game called Major League Manager from Spinnaker Software. It was a single-season replay. The disk I had was 1988 rosters, I believe (plus a handful of All-Time Great teams).

(Yeah, back in the day where the whole MLB roster plus the sim engine fit on a 3.5" disk.)

Thats my first sim too. I remember playing with the old guys like Wagner and Hornsby on there. Was a fun game. I found it a year ago or so and played it in dosbox, was still fun to play heh

05-26-2011, 11:19 AM	#2
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	Earl Weaver Baseball on my Amiga back in like '89, Head Coach Football around the same time (same platform). Those were the two earliest I remember. Front Page Sports Football came along after those. I don't know where Championship Manager fits in the spectrum. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

05-26-2011, 11:21 AM	#3
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Statis Pro Baseball was my first sports text sim. GB64.COM - C64 Games, Database, Music, Emulation, Frontends, Reviews and Articles 1986 __________________ ...

05-26-2011, 11:42 AM	#6
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	There was a text based college football sim for Atari that was late eighties. I have no idea what the name might have been. There was also a late eighties baseball sim that I can remember entering stats into to create teams. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

05-26-2011, 11:45 AM	#7
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	I don't remember any pure text sim football game on the C64 back in the 80s. Not saying there wasn't, I just don't remember there being one and I bought a lot of them back in the 80s. As for baseball, wikipedia has this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basebal...mputer_Game%29 There's this link too: STADIUM 64 - The Commodore 64 Sport Archive The first baseball game I had for my C64 was Star League Baseball. My dad and I would keep our stats on a paper. Good times. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4 Last edited by JediKooter : 05-26-2011 at 11:52 AM.

05-26-2011, 11:59 AM	#10
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Computer Baseball is it. Here's some packaging materials. http://www.elisoftware.net/index.php...Canada_Release __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

05-26-2011, 11:35 AM	#5
dfisher High School JV Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Hatboro, PA	Lance Haffner games had a bunch of games at least in the early 90's (maybe earlier). I had Courtside College Basketball, the baseball game, the college football game, and the wrestling game. It was basically season replays.

05-26-2011, 11:49 AM	#8
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Computer Baseball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That was my first sports game on the Atari when I was a kid. Its hard to google up more since the dang thing is named "Computer Baseball"

05-26-2011, 11:55 AM	#9
Shkspr College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Amarillo, TX	The very first professional pro text football sim I am familiar with is XOR's NFL Challenge, released in 1985. It featured real NFL rosters (though I think only uniform numbers were used), and an interesting hotseat playstyle where players would go head-to-head on the same machine using laminated playbooks to imput formations and plays. The action on the field played out using Xs and Os, just like we all wish Jim would get off his butt and do for FOF. It appears as though early superstar programmer Dan (Dani) Bunten wrote a two-player football game in 1979 for the Apple II. After that the floodgates opened in 1984-1985 with a host of football games that relied on playcalling. Touchdown Football, subLogic Football, Super Sunday - I'm not sure any of them really required much joystick activity. Maybe subLogic. As far as baseball goes, SSI's Computer Baseball takes the early crown, I think. I must have spent years compiling stats for every game I played on that system That was probably 1981 or 1982. Other early series included Earl Weaver Baseball, which showed up in the late '80s, Microleague, which was around the same time, and Tony LaRussa, which would have been early '90s. There was a branded Pete Rose baseball game I remember which was stat driven, but was odd because the player notation was weird. One old, old game that deserves mention is SBS, the Strategic Baseball Simulator. I don't even know if it was a commercial program, but the idea was that you would input whatever team you wanted to play with as a stat file, literally just typing the stats you wanted to use into Wordpad, and then you could simulate seasons in seconds. I think it was around in the early to mid '90s. With the exception of Omni-Pro and TV Sports Basketball, there was almost no management games in hoops that I know of until Fast Break and Jump Shot Basketball began to surface. I think Microsoft had a game called NBA Full Court Press which was allegedly stat-driven, but I could never get my disk to work. Wayne Gretzky Hockey, by Bethesda Softworks had an add-on/companion game called Hockey League Manager, I think. This would have been in the early '90s; that's the only hockey text game I played before Eastside. For smaller sports, check out Wizard Games of Scotland. They offered text takes on soccer, horse raing, greyhound racing, and auto racing among other simulations. All were DOS based, and I'm pretty sure they either pre-dated or sttod alongside the early Sports Interactive releases. Hope this helps.

05-26-2011, 12:00 PM	#11
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Superbowl Sunday was a text sim on the C64. It had graphics but those were just to show you the results of plays. You had no control over the players. http://www.stadium64.com/gameinfos/s...bowlsunday.htm __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

05-26-2011, 12:11 PM	#12
LastWhiteSoxFanStanding College Starter Join Date: Jun 2003	I am not sure when it came out, but I absolutely loved Tuesday Night Football by Shoestring Software. It came with the Oilers and Steelers and that was it. Had a crude field with x's and o's plus brief play by play. I think about 15 plays on offense and 7 or 8 plays on defense. And it was all text except for field goals and punts which the player controlled. It kept track of the stats for the game, but obviously there was no season mode since only two teams were included. Virtual Apple 2 - Online disk archive -- Tuesday Night Football

05-26-2011, 12:25 PM	#14
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	I had Computer Baseball for the C64. It was awesome at the time - used to run leagues on it at school. I even purchased the Stats disk (because the original program did not compile statistics) and this disk was delayed about 3 months beyond the original release date. This was during the days when you were left completely hanging when you ordered things. There was no "look online to see the status" or anything like that. At the age of 14, the best you could do was run down the street chasing every UPS truck in the hopes it was your package. I had Superbowl Sunday and a game from Strategic Simulations (the same makers of Computer Baseball) called Computer Quarterback. Attempted to run a league with that at school but there wasn't as much interest. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

05-26-2011, 12:27 PM	#15
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Oh, and I remember being heartbroken when I got some kind of run-time error with Computer Baseball and realized it wasn't written in machine code. Back in the day C64 BASIC was great, but so dang slow. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

05-26-2011, 01:02 PM	#16
Drake assmaster Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bloomington, IN	My first text sim was a game called Major League Manager from Spinnaker Software. It was a single-season replay. The disk I had was 1988 rosters, I believe (plus a handful of All-Time Great teams). (Yeah, back in the day where the whole MLB roster plus the sim engine fit on a 3.5" disk.)

05-26-2011, 01:09 PM	#17
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	I'd say MicroLeague Baseball was my favorite. Had all the expansion disks for it too. Got it back in 84 and am amazed that looking back at its simple graphics and game play, at how enjoyable it is compared to games out today. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

05-26-2011, 01:14 PM	#18
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Lance Haffner was one of the pioneers of computer sports simulations. He started in the early 80s. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

05-26-2011, 01:14 PM	#19
cubboyroy1826 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2002	I had Lance Haffner baseball for the Amiga. I played the heck out of that game and from what I remember it kept stats for you which was a big deal. My favorite by far though was Earl Weaver Baseball on my old Tandy something or another from Radio Shack.

05-26-2011, 01:26 PM	#20
chesapeake College Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, VA	My first foray into sports text sims was the aforementioned Computer Quarterback from SSI. I bought the Apple version in 1985, IIRC. I ran a 6 team league with my friends, compiling all the stats by hand. I also made up a draft system using football cards. Last edited by chesapeake : 05-26-2011 at 01:27 PM.

05-26-2011, 01:48 PM	#21
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	There was a John Madden football game for the Apple in the mid-80s (not sure what the name was) that may have had Xs and Os. I know it came with some historical teams.

05-26-2011, 02:35 PM	#22
Ajaxab College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Far from home	I appreciate all the help! It's enough to make me wonder if there might be a book in this project instead of just a chapter.

05-26-2011, 02:59 PM	#23
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	One-Nil was my first text game. Wish every game was as good as that one was.

05-26-2011, 03:12 PM	#26
HeavyReign Fast Break Basketball Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Spokane, WA	My first text sim was called The Soccer Game sometime around 1993 I think. Then I moved onto Soccer Wizard in college before finding Baseball Mogul and FOF.

05-26-2011, 03:16 PM	#27
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Definitely Earl Weaver has earned some acclaim. You could play whole seasons with your own rosters. My friends and I made a league, and played every game of the season against each other. Other games that probably deserve some credit are the XOR college basketball games. I still think that game provided the best in-game coaching experience to date. It did lack the ability to play out a season, only offering one game and its stats at a time. Cactus league basketball is another one that pioneered the way for the text sims of today.

05-26-2011, 03:20 PM	#28
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Mobygames would be a good resource. I've found a few I didn't remember already. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

05-26-2011, 03:27 PM	#30
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	Arguably the first text sim as the original 'Football Manager' in 1982 - there were an absolute host of them around that time though, Football Director (by the chap who does 'MyFC' these days), The Boss etc. There's a brief potted history here: 25 years of Football Management Games: Part 1 \| FM 2007 Guides \| Football Manager 2007 Last edited by Marc Vaughan : 05-26-2011 at 03:28 PM.

05-26-2011, 03:51 PM	#32
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	I would think that if you were to truly look at the history of the sports text sim, you would have to look at the sports board game as it's true beginning. Games like Strat and Diamond Mind come to mind. And even before that, going back to the 70's where you had the card game based football games where you picked the strategy and kept score. My first sports game was SOM Computer Baseball on the Apple IIe. I didn't even have an Apple and had to convince my mom to buy the game for me, so I could play it on my friend's computer. That would have been around 1987. I played for hours on that sitting at my friends computer. I was surprised that I was still wanted there since all I wanted to to was play on that computer. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

05-26-2011, 05:30 PM	#33
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Lance Haffner basketball for the C64 was probably my first text sim.

05-26-2011, 06:29 PM	#35
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	I played over 1000 games of Computer Quarterback by Dan (Dani) Bunten on the Atari. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

05-26-2011, 06:31 PM	#36
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I think this is the one I played H2H with my friend...damn, it's been a long time, hard to remember now.

05-26-2011, 06:49 PM	#37
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	A lesser player perhaps, but one that I remember buying at least a couple of games from was Dolphin Sims, which is apparently still around as an online/email sim. Here's a link to their history, starting around 1991. http://www.dolphinsim.com/info/history.shtml Meanwhile, I thought it was Dolphin but they don't mention it, but someone had a college baseball text sim at some point. I don't think it was a user mod of an MLB game, as I recall it was meant as a college sim from the ground up. Was that Haffner maybe? __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-26-2011, 06:58 PM	#38
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Earliest one I can remember is from 1986... that one was called radio baseball (or radio baseball featuring Abner the computer manager) from electronic arts __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

05-26-2011, 07:17 PM	#40
britrock88 Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Madison, WI	My first was Tom Landry Strategy Football. It worked in season replay format, and had graphics that showed the result of every play, but the thrust of the game was in-game coaching.

05-26-2011, 07:46 PM	#42
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	Not mentioned that I could see were the Sporttime/Omniplay series. There was definitely Hockey and Basketball versions, as well as a horse racing game that used a similar engine. They had ads for all the other sports but I'm not sure if they ever actually made them. It was the first game I ever saw that had year-to-year progressions. You could actually "rebuild" with a team of young players and try to develop them over time. Great fun. You could even sim the games instead of playing them. Just don't get stuck with the dreaded forfeit loss when you have a power failure. __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

05-26-2011, 10:55 PM	#49
LloydLungs College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ponchatoula, LA	By the way... anybody remember a football text sim called "Head Coach"? I believe the company was Midnight Oil. It was an American football career text sim made in the UK of all places, and it pre-dated FOF. I think it even pre-dated the original Baseball Mogul. I seem to remember playing it in the mid 90s, but I don't think I ever see it brought up in "reminiscing" threads like this. It was somewhat crude, but it did have a draft, and aging, and it was really way ahead of its time. Fictional league, but it was good enough to keep me pretty engaged for several seasons. I seem to remember the actual games being pretty fun to play out, and I'm usually someone who doesn't play out games.

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