DT to NT Question

[zdub]

We just signed a stud DT in MP FA. We run the 3-4 so I'd like to change him to a NT. Just realized he's only 6' foot tall. When I try to change him to NT, the game screen says: "Player may be to short to have success at this position"

Does this mean the NT won't play to his potential as a 3-4 NT due to his shortness? Not sure what to do here. I want this guy to play to his max potential and I don't want to screw up any of his ratings.

[g206029]

You don't need to change his player pos. Just play him at the NT and see how he does.

[Dutch]

I think that's right, the change from RDT/LDT to DT and back seems to be negligible. Same for SILB/WILB to MLB and back.

I'd even go so far as to say that Jim may have mentioned this wasn't penalized at one point back in the day.

So that "Too Short for success" at NT is currently true for his current DT position as well. What's the penalty? I don't know.

[zdub]

No offense G2, but I'm going with "grizzled vet" on this one. Even though he does drink Miller Lite.

Thanks to you both

[Dutch]

...when in Rome...and when I'm in the States...I drink Miller Lite.

[NiteMaestro]

can't say for sure, but unlike DT, NT is much more weight dependent.
he needs to hold the line for the LBs to have a clear path.

I look for certain bars in NTs, mainly playdiag, PRstrength, and endurance. RunD is important, but considering that the LBs take that responsibility more than him, I'm more concerned about is PR ability.

In my experience, RDTs are better suited for NT, as they are generally the 'doubleteamed' ones and have more of a PR and 'occupy' responsibility.


If I were you, I'd maybe consider looking to see if you can find someone willing to trade a 6'6"+ 290lbs runstuffing DE, and draftpicks (or other players) for him.

How heavy is the guy?

[zdub]

Sorry for not replying sooner. Don't get on this site much. He's 6' and 304 lbs. He could maybe be a little bigger, but he seems to be doing well so far as a 3-4 NT.

http://108.59.255.76/~benelou/ccfl/b...?playerid=5396

[aston217]

Yeah, I wonder about that. Does "average" weight change in a 3-4 vs a 4-3?

Let's say you have a 315-lb DT. I think that would count as heavy, but in a 3-4, it's a pretty good size for a DT, isn't it? Could even go heavier. Same for DEs. A 260s, 270s guy is par for the course in a 4-3. In a 3-4, that could be considered small. 290lb+ guys are not out of the question at 3-4 end, or even more.

Etc for OLBs. 4-3 OLBs can be smaller; 3-4 OLBs have to set the edge and need to be fairly stout.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by aston217

Yeah, I wonder about that. Does "average" weight change in a 3-4 vs a 4-3?

Let's say you have a 315-lb DT. I think that would count as heavy, but in a 3-4, it's a pretty good size for a DT, isn't it? Could even go heavier. Same for DEs. A 260s, 270s guy is par for the course in a 4-3. In a 3-4, that could be considered small. 290lb+ guys are not out of the question at 3-4 end, or even more.

Etc for OLBs. 4-3 OLBs can be smaller; 3-4 OLBs have to set the edge and need to be fairly stout.

Is there anything at all to suggest that this computer game pays any attention at all to such things?

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Is there anything at all to suggest that this computer game pays any attention at all to such things?

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to. Do you mean that the game doesn't taken into account that a NT in a 3-4 being heavier than what's considered normal won't perform any better?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to. Do you mean that the game doesn't taken into account that a NT in a 3-4 being heavier than what's considered normal won't perform any better?

Remember, it's not "real" football, it's FOF. Unless documentation, testing or developer comments suggests it's coded into the computer game, we can't say for sure what the game takes into account. QS's just saying there is currently no evidence to suggest this computer game considers NT weight with regard to player player performance in a 3-4 vs. a 4-3.

[Firefly]

It's hard to say exactly what has been coded into the game, but it's safe to say that many real football circumstances aren't coded into FOF. I think Jim has done an absolutely fantastic job of not telling us what these are and letting players' imaginations run wild as to what might be in there.

My opinion, btw, is that whatever the game says about ideal weight during TC weight training is all there is to know about the subject. And I don't recall the game getting cute between 3-4 and 4-3 for any position.

[Nemesis]

December 2007 Solecismic Q&A: Weight Training and 6.1a Injury Clarification. - Front Office Football Central

Q: According to the Help File "Players who are at the ideal weight for the their positions will perform better." Weight training is considered to be tedious by many FOF players, and it is wondered if it is worth investing any time in. Recent tests showed that an entire Colts team set at 300 pounds (including the QBs and RBs) performed just fine, including 6'0", 300-pound Marvin Harrison catching 113 passes for 1729 yards with 11 TDs and 9.45 yards per target. Similarly, an entire Bears team consisting of 150-pound players rushed for 3.93 yards per carry, and only allowed 3.66 yards per carry. This has led some to wonder if the impact of weight in FOF2K7 is either suffering from a bug, or so subtle that it isn't worth the time it takes to do weight training in training camp. Are we missing the boat here, and there's something else going on that we should take into account? Also on weight training, it has been shown that far more often than not, players undersized for their position can't get bigger, and too-heavy players can't get smaller. Is the game intentionally designed this way?

A: Yes, many lighter players are as bulked up as they can get and many heavy players can't slim down. You won't find that out until they're on your team, so you need to be careful when drafting players outside of the ideal weight range for their position. You might find they're better suited for a position-switch. The weight penalties exist, but are capped very close to the range of the player generator. The game is simply not designed to work with user-entered extreme weights and heights. The game would never generate a 300-pound wide receiver, nor allow you to move a 300-pound player into that position.

What I take from this is that there IS a factor involved with what was suggested above, but it's seriously handicapped, so that extremes can't be used, like what Ben suggested he did with 150lb guys. So, it does exist, but it's not very prominent.

I would wager a guess that it's so irrelevant that to say it doesn't make a difference would be true, but I'll leave that up to someone else more experienced to say that.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, there is a slight difference in NT's, and LDT/RDT's ideal weight. But it's almost not enough to even mention.
2k7 Heights / Weights - Front Office Football Central

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

December 2007 Solecismic Q&A: Weight Training and 6.1a Injury Clarification. - Front Office Football Central

What I take from this is that there IS a factor involved with what was suggested above, but it's seriously handicapped, so that extremes can't be used, like what Ben suggested he did with 150lb guys. So, it does exist, but it's not very prominent.

I would wager a guess that it's so irrelevant that to say it doesn't make a difference would be true, but I'll leave that up to someone else more experienced to say that.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, there is a slight difference in NT's, and LDT/RDT's ideal weight. But it's almost not enough to even mention.
2k7 Heights / Weights - Front Office Football Central

Well, the other caution with FOF is to remember that Jim has typically patched the game at least once a year, and therefore quirky behaviors from nearly four years ago may or may not still be in the game. FOF2K7 was released in 2006, so 6.1 came out in Fall 2007. We've had three major patches since then, and a small handful of minor ones, too. Who's to say it still works that way? That test would need to be re-run on 6.4 to see if it's still valid.

[Dawgfan19]

I haven’t read this thread in complete detail so my apologies if this has been mentioned previously. I have seen a couple of instances where the game prevented a switch from DT to NT. When I have access to the game, I’ll attempt to dig up his Ht/Wt/stats. This was during a 60 year SP career and will be a good memory test.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Well, the other caution with FOF is to remember that Jim has typically patched the game at least once a year, and therefore quirky behaviors from nearly four years ago may or may not still be in the game. FOF2K7 was released in 2006, so 6.1 came out in Fall 2007. We've had three major patches since then, and a small handful of minor ones, too. Who's to say it still works that way? That test would need to be re-run on 6.4 to see if it's still valid.

Yeah, it's possible that he could have updated that in a patch since then. Not sure how to test it personally because I've never edited player files.

Do you think it's a prominent enough subject to test?

[Dawgfan19]

The player I mentioned above was Jeremy McClung, 6-2, 278 lbs.


A sample size of one is obviously rather small to draw conclusions re: performance issues. But, for what it's worth, he had a 10 year career playing exclusively at NT with 49 sacks and 309 tackles.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Dawgfan19

I haven’t read this thread in complete detail so my apologies if this has been mentioned previously. I have seen a couple of instances where the game prevented a switch from DT to NT. When I have access to the game, I’ll attempt to dig up his Ht/Wt/stats. This was during a 60 year SP career and will be a good memory test.

That guy is too small to play either NT or DT. If he were a NT, the game wouldn't let you change him to DT, either.

[aston217]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Well, the other caution with FOF is to remember that Jim has typically patched the game at least once a year, and therefore quirky behaviors from nearly four years ago may or may not still be in the game. FOF2K7 was released in 2006, so 6.1 came out in Fall 2007. We've had three major patches since then, and a small handful of minor ones, too. Who's to say it still works that way? That test would need to be re-run on 6.4 to see if it's still valid.

I really like this about this game.

I am sure Quik is right on this, but if Jim is listening, I think it would be pretty cool to have different weight requirements on defense for a 3-4 vs a 4-3. Make it so that there are some players that would really do much better in one system vs another. I.e, send out 6'1, 260-lb DEs in a 3-4 and you will get dominated at the line, but 6'3, 300-lbs wouldn't be considered far outside the constraints.