Ghostface Killah reviews Kanye/Jay-z's "Watch the Thone"

[Groundhog]

One of the funniest album reviews I've ever read:

hxxp://rapsandhustles.com/2011/08/11/ghostface-killah-watch-the-throne-album-review/

My favourite:

11. Made In America (ft. Frank Ocean) – First of all son….Lionel Richie called from 1986 n said he wants his song back yo. Word. Sade jus holla’d on twitter to say this shit is soft as fuck namsayin. I think Elton John wants to conceive babies to this joint b. Drake said he gon soak in his lotion pool to this shit rite here for like a week son. I think Wiz Khagina is scissorin wit Amber Rose to this shit rite now as we speak yo. I heard this shit gon be used for the next Gwyneth Paltrow movie too. I dont kno how the same nigga that did Who Gon Stop Me had anything to do wit this shit but apparently he did nahmean. This shit sounds like two niggas hang glidin over the ocean together at sunset holdin hands son. I think this is bout to be on Yung Berg’s yoga playlist. I cant fuck wit this shit at all b. This shit is like audio lesbian comin out my speakers son.

[Swaggs]

Nice.

This shit is like Shia LeBeouf in song form yo. Lissenin to this shit is like havin ya ears penetrated by a million microscopic dicks namsayin.

[Young Drachma]

Holy cows. It's like they called the real Ghost and channeled him with that one. (Suffice to say, this isn't *actually* a review from Ghostface Killah, but a parody.)

[Bobble]

You know, I used to think Ghostface Killah as a stupid name but then I thought that if you've figured out how to kill ghostfaces, you're probably the only one in the world who knows how to do that. And that's something to be proud of.

[terpkristin]

Randomly, I was looking for opinions on this album this weekend. I listened to some of the samples, was torn on if I should grab it. Anybody?

/tk

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Randomly, I was looking for opinions on this album this weekend. I listened to some of the samples, was torn on if I should grab it. Anybody?

/tk

Definitely not my genre, but from what I've gathered it seems to have had a pretty luke-warm reception.

[stevew]

I didn't realize that car they cut apart in the Otis video retails for like 350K.

[korme]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Randomly, I was looking for opinions on this album this weekend. I listened to some of the samples, was torn on if I should grab it. Anybody?

/tk

I love it, but I'm a huge Kanye and Jay-Z fan anyway. I despise most rap but think these two guys are geniuses, particularly Kanye

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Definitely not my genre, but from what I've gathered it seems to have had a pretty luke-warm reception.

I have yet to hear a track that goes beyond filler.

[Young Drachma]

Beats are crazy, of course. Kanye does production so well. But it's pretty craptastic.

[korme]

Amongst this hipster crowd, I'm not surprised by these responses.

[korme]

Reception

Critical response

Professional ratings
Review scores
Source	Rating
Allmusic	[53]
The A.V. Club	(A−)[26]
Entertainment Weekly	(B−)[30]
The Guardian	[16]
Los Angeles Times	[27]
The New York Times	(favorable)[17]
Pitchfork Media	(8.5/10)[18]
Rolling Stone	[14]
Slant Magazine	[15]
Spin	(6/10)[19]

Watch the Throne received generally positive reviews from music critics. At Metacritic, which assigns a weighted mean rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream critics, the album received an average score of 75, based on 33 reviews, which indicates "generally favorable reviews."^[54] Steve Jones of USA Today praised the rappers' "chemistry" and wrote that it "allows each to carve out his own stylistic space, with Jay-Z coolly delivering his incisive lyrical darts, while the more emotional West thrives on adrenaline-fueled punchlines."^[20] Nathan Rabin of The A.V. Club commented that "exhilarating messiness and go-for-broke spontaneity infect Jay-Z and push him outside his comfort zone and into a realm of intense emotional reflection."^[26] Alexis Petridis of The Guardian viewed that "more often [...] Watch the Throne continues My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy's mood of restless creativity," but added "If [it]'s musical direction seems like West's work, it's worth noting that Jay-Z has the better lyrics."^[16] Pitchfork Media's Tom Breihan commented that "Watch the Throne works best when Jay and Kanye are just talking about how great they are," adding that "Kanye is this album's obvious guiding force. Throughout, he displays levels of unequaled audacity."^[18] Claire Suddath of Time complimented the lyrics' social commentary and "opulence," calling it "a beautifully decadent album by two of hip-hop's finest artists — men with a lot of things to say and a lot of money to spend."^[29] Neil McCormick of The Daily Telegraph praised West's "attention to detail" and found their "wit and absurdity [...] entirely suited to the epic scale of productions."^[22]
Despite noting "a relative lack of structural variety within the songs," Los Angeles Times writer Randall Roberts found its production "captivating" and called the album "a cocksure, fiery, smart, if problematic, collaboration that showcases the pair's distinct lyrical skills."^[27] Jon Caramanica of The New York Times commented that "as a whole it’s not totally legible; there are too many ideas," calling it "an album with several phenomenal moments, even if it doesn’t quite add up to a phenomenal album."^[17] Julian Benbow of The Boston Globe stated, "They still sound like two solo rappers. But there’s an undeniable synergy that they embraced for this project."^[13] Jayson Rodriguez of XXL called the album "incredibly ambitious, yet dexterous" and commended its producers for "skillfully lay down a musical foundation that makes it easy to dance to and not be worn down by the, at times, didactic messages."^[23] Slant Magazine's Matthew Cole praised West's "powerhouse production" and called it an album "that requires you to tolerate the artists' self-mythologizing and put up with their sometimes awkward attempts at experimentation."^[15] Despite noting a "lack of thematic consistency," David Amidon of PopMatters commended "the entire conceit of the album’s framework" and added that it "succeeds [...] in giving us both sides of both artists—the braggadocio and the social consciousness—in nearly equal measure."^[31] Kitty Empire of The Observer stated, "Some find this sort of branded gloating distasteful, but at their best both rappers can still make you laugh."^[28]
However, Chicago Tribune writer Greg Kot noted a "sometimes difficult partnership" and criticized Jay-Z's and West's "self-regard" in their lyrics, stating "they urge listeners to 'watch the throne,' and gaze in awe on their good fortune."^[25] Andy Gill of The Independent found their rapping "pretty mediocre" and stated, "Too often here their complacent, back-slapping laxity leaves tracks floundering."^[55] Entertainment Weekly's Kyle Anderson viewed that they lack chemistry together and commented that much of the album "sounds cluttered and disjointed."^[30] Rolling Stone writer Jody Rosen complimented West's production and Jay-Z's "emotional depth," but stated, "on a record this ambitious, this sonically bold, it's a shame two of music's greatest storytellers don't extend their gaze beyond their own luxe lives."^[14] Rob Harvilla of Spin commented that "fame and wealth and pissed greatness [...] permeate[s] everything" and called the album "garish and glorious, exquisite and exasperating."^[19] BBC Music's Marcus J. Moore perceived "a conflicted tug-of-war between the two" and called the album "a very noble attempt at cohesion, but its inconsistency ultimately stalls the project, resulting in an uneven recording that buckles under the weight of its own pressure."^[56] Sputnikmusic's Tyler Fisher noted "a lack of focus," but called it "a mess of an album that sounds too good to hate."^[24] Sasha Frere-Jones of The New Yorker stated, "Weed the album down to a healthy ten, and [it] doesn’t become either classic or coherent, but it does work as an entertaining document of two wildly creative, not particularly wound-up friends."^[57]

[Groundhog]

[cynical old man]The only good glowing critical reviews do me these days is to warn me what to steer clear of.[/cynical old man]

[Groundhog]

Proof:

Critical response

Professional ratings
Aggregate scores
Source	Rating
Metacritic	(71/100)[154]
Review scores
Source	Rating
Allmusic	[155]
Robert Christgau	(A−)[156]
Entertainment Weekly	(B+)[157]
The Guardian	[158]
The Independent	[159]
Los Angeles Times	(unfavorable)[160]
Rolling Stone	[47]
Slant Magazine	[161]
Spin	(8/10)[44]
The Village Voice	(mixed)[162]

Born This Way received positive reviews from most music critics upon its release. At Metacritic, which assigns a normalized rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream critics, the album received an average score of 71, based on 33 reviews, which indicates "generally favorable reviews".^[154] Dan Martin of NME gave it an eight out of 10 rating, stating "Gaga doesn't know when to hold back – and it's a damn good thing", and complimented Gaga for pushing musical boundaries to its "ultimate degree."^[23] Sal Cinquemani of Slant Magazine opined: "There's nothing small about this album, and Gaga sings the shit out of every single track."^[161] Cinquemani compared the album to The Killers' album Sam's Town, calling it "bloated, self-important, proudly American, an exercise in extraordinary excess."^[161] BBC Music called the album a "marvelous record" and commended Gaga for "actually putting a bit of effort and imagination back into pop."^[163] Rolling Stone's Rob Sheffield praised Gaga's vocals and musical style, expressing that "the more excessive Gaga gets, the more honest she sounds."^[47] Bill Lamb of About.com gave the album five out of five stars and concluded in his review, "Born This Way begins and ends with near perfection."^[164] Spin felt that "excess is Gaga's riskiest musical gamble, but it's also her greatest weapon, and Born This Way relentlessly bludgeons listeners' pleasure centres”, and concluded that “she's making a convincing case that she's evolving into our most surreally brilliant pop star.”^[44] Adam Markovitz of Entertainment Weekly found the album "rewarding but wildly uneven", adding that "If Gaga doesn’t find a stand-alone hit here on the order of 'Bad Romance,' the album’s sprawl still shows off the breadth of her talent."^[157] Despite criticizing her for "letting her skills as a songwriter slide ever so slightly", Allmusic editor Stephen Thomas Erlewine gave the album three-and-a-half out of five stars and complimented Gaga's composing "sensibility" and "considerable dexterity at delivering the basics".^[155]
However, Greg Kot of the Chicago Tribune felt that the album was rushed, describing it as "hyperventilating".^[165] Kot expressed that it felt like the sound "of a major artist sprinting to please everyone all the time."^[165] Randall Roberts of the Los Angeles Times opined that Gaga was lacking in innovation, stating that "musical adventure is not one of her strong points."^[166] He continued: "She’s unsubtle in her message, unsubtle in her dress, and, most important, unsubtle aesthetically[...]. If Gaga had only spent as much time on pushing musical boundaries as she has social ones, Born This Way would have been a lot more successful."^[166] Chris Richards of The Washington Post found it "boring", writing, "Yes, Born This Way is a dark, dense and surprisingly aggressive listen... [but] at its worst, it sounds like reheated leftovers from some '80s movie soundtrack."^[167] The Boston Globe called the album "the most deflated moment in pop music this year," saying the album lacks cohesion and the songwriting "feels thin."^[168] The Independent gave Born This Way three out of five stars. While complimenting her vocal range, criticized the diversity within the album and stated "the broader she spreads her net musically, the less distinctive her art becomes."^[159] Evan Sawdey of PopMatters gave the album a five out of 10 rating and dubbed it "her weakest album to date", commenting that it "fus[es] some daring songwriting with some remarkably repetitive themes and beats".^[169] Rich Juzwiak of The Village Voice commented that Gaga's "we-shall-overcome sentiment" is expressed more effectively through the album's "egalitarian use of house beats" than through her "sloganeering", which he found "trite" and "[un]insightful".^[162] In his consumer guide for MSN Music, critic Robert Christgau viewed the album as not on-par with The Fame or The Fame Monster, but added that "both of those keep growing, and with its mad momentum and nutty thematics, this one could too."^[156]

[korme]

Gaga is a pretty talented chick, like her music or not.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by korme

Gaga is a pretty talented chick, like her music or not.

yep... some people just hate anything mainstream.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

yep... some people just hate anything mainstream.

Yah, that'd have to be the reason why I don't like Lady Gaga's music.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

yep... some people just hate anything mainstream.

I just don't think there is anything there outside of shameless promotion. I do own albums from Jay-Z and Kayne, but again, the stuff from this album does nothing for me.

[Young Drachma]

I think the whole "omg, hipsters don't like reel music" meme is overplayed. Music has gradients and there's no accounting for good taste.

Just like what you like and share it if that's your bag. But I don't approach music as a "mine is better yours" type of thing. I love introducing people to new things and I like discovering mainstream stuff I enjoy, because it brings people together.

Nothing is worse than driving in a car, especially with teens and not having music you can bond over. So having some mainstream deftness is useful, but I don't fault folks who just want to listen to stuff they grew up with. I don't necessarily understand it, but I can see where it'd get hard to keep up with music if your life doesn't conform around you having time to discover new things.

Still, that Watch The Throne is mostly drivel and I don't care if you like it. I want to like it, to me it just seems like a chance for Jay and Kanye to get their bromance on in the studio because eight times out of ten it ought to produce something hot. Can't really fault them for that.

On Lady Gaga. She does nothing for me, but that's cool if it works for you.

[Draft Dodger]

I didn't mind it, and I'm not a big fan of either. Wasn't great, wasn't terrible...but there's a few tunes that will go on the iPod

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yah, that'd have to be the reason why I don't like Lady Gaga's music.

I didnt mean you sorry if it came off that way lol.

[k0ruptr]

My favorite rapper right now is Wax. He is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/waxandherbalt



I should also throw in Dumbfoundead aka DFD

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

I didnt mean you sorry if it came off that way lol.

No probs dude, how I feel sorta more ties in with what DC said actually. At the end of the day, I consider myself more of a music lover than a music snob/hipster. There's been plenty of pop songs over the years that I've liked a whole heap, but at the same time, I'm not that old yet I'm old enough to have seen more than a few Lady Gagas come and go.

[Julio Riddols]

I finally gave the album a listen, and I love the production, but lyrically, it just doesn't say anything that any other rapper couldn't say. Its not on par with the work I am used to hearing from Jay-Z or Kanye. You could have had the same beats with any 2 other dudes on it and gotten the same mileage out of it, IMO.