Cracking the Goalie Price Levels

Airhog · 04-24-2003, 11:53 PM

Not quite there but I am getting really close, it will take some more sifting through data, but before long, we will know how close a goalie is to jumping up a level. I think with time we could figure it out for every player.....

Nyarlahotep · 04-25-2003, 12:00 AM

You can just ask for the keeper info on the HT forums.

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 12:09 AM

But wheres the fun in that? Besides I dont think the devs just give out that information. I eventually would like to have a comprehensive guide as too how much form, age, and stamina affect price. Right now Im focusing on the goalie. Its going to be really tough to predict the change age has, and stamina will be tough too, but I think its doable....

Blade6119 · 04-25-2003, 12:18 AM

since i train keepers i kinda have an idea when they pop...

Ive found that they are inadaquate up until about 125,000-150,000

They hit solid around 250,000-275,000

They go up again at out 360,000-385,000

Thought this might help...

Nyarlahotep · 04-25-2003, 12:19 AM

The Dev's won't tell you, but keeper trainers will.

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 12:22 AM

Your probably right, but thats not going to keep me from finding out, besides if they tell the whole world, they would lose the edge they have buying keepers about to pop

mrushh · 04-25-2003, 12:23 AM

If my keeper is 258k and passable, does that mean he could VERY possibly go solid with a week training? Will he eventually go to solid on his own, as he keeps going up in value with no keeper training, or do you have to train to "pop?"

vex · 04-25-2003, 12:26 AM

My solid Keeper in excellent form WAS valued at $427,000. However, today, he dropped to passable form. Dropped $40,000 in value and is now at $397,000

vex · 04-25-2003, 12:27 AM

Keepers don't go excellent anywhere around $360,000- $385,000.

$460,000-$485,000 is about right though.

Nyarlahotep · 04-25-2003, 12:28 AM

If he is in passable form he will probably pop in one week of keeper training. He would pop eventaully just from you having keepr coaches, but that would take a while.

And in passable form a solid keeper will hit excellent at about 500k. They would have to be in pretty bad form to pop around 375k.

vex · 04-25-2003, 12:29 AM

Yeah, like wretched

Blade6119 · 04-25-2003, 12:30 AM

all depends on form...im seeing guys with low form(therefore lower value) pop at around 385,000...if they have good form the value shoots up...like you said, your guy dropped 40k because of 1 level in form....all depends on form in my mind...im dealing with the lower end

Blade6119 · 04-25-2003, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrushh
If my keeper is 258k and passable, does that mean he could VERY possibly go solid with a week training? Will he eventually go to solid on his own, as he keeps going up in value with no keeper training, or do you have to train to "pop?"

At this value, whats his form....id say a week or two should put him over, but vexroid might say otherwise...

vex · 04-25-2003, 12:31 AM

That was 2 levels of form drop. Excellent to passable.

vex · 04-25-2003, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blade6119
At this value, whats his form....id say a week or two should put him over, but vexroid might say otherwise...

I'm just saying, I know that sterlingice's keeper was in solid form and worth $480,000 and didn't pop.

Nyarlahotep · 04-25-2003, 12:50 AM

at solid form it would be at least 550k I would think, probably more.

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 01:01 AM

Im still working on the data, but im getting close. I should have some results by tonight....

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 03:09 AM

Okay, I have finally finished this.

Note: All the players I looked at where younger than 28 years old. Im pretty sure that older players are worth less even though they have the same skills. Hopefully the age doesnt cause too much of a variance. These figures do not include the Stamina of a player, or any other skills a player has. This should be close enough though to decide approximately how many weeks you need to train to recieve a benefit in skills. It is my ultimate goal to figure out the true worth of skills. So you can look at any player, and quickly decide if he is going to level or not. This is a big task, but this has allowed us one step closer. If several people want the data, I have it in excel format and will make it available. Now on too the rankings. The data shown only covers the Weak-Solid ratings, I can easily add more ratings If needed

Code:


Poor Form			
Skill		Low Price	High Price	H Price/L Price 
Weak		19000		47000		2.4737		
Inadequate	48,000		109,000		2.2708		
Passable	106,000		200,000		1.8868		
Solid		201,000		344000		1.7114		
				
				
	Weak Form			
Skill		Low Price	High Price	H Price/L Price	
Weak		27000		56000		2.0741		
Inadequate	61,000		126,000		2.0656		
Passable	135,000		235,000		1.7407		
Solid		228,000		381,000		1.6711		
				
				
	Inadequate Form			
Skill		Low Price	High Price	H Price/L Price	 
Weak		29000		62000		2.1379		
Inadequate	69,000		140,000		2.0290		
Passable	142,000		252,000		1.7746		
Solid		263,000		453,000		1.7224		
				
				
	Passable Form			
		Low Price	High Price	H Price/L Price	 
Weak		31000		74000		2.3871		
Inadequate	75,000		160,000		2.1333		
Passable	155,000		297,000		1.9161		
Solid		296,000		525,000		1.7736

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 03:12 AM

I will eventually extend this information to include more ratings, and more forms, but the main problem is a lack of higher forms, and lower forms. So all of that information would have to be extrapolated, and might not be as accurate.

sterlingice · 04-25-2003, 03:46 AM

Great work, Airhog!

SI

condors · 04-25-2003, 06:20 AM

my goalie turned solid at 320k he has a solid form as well

Easy Mac · 04-25-2003, 10:46 AM

So quick keeper question:

this guy should pop in a week or 2, right:

Rafael Fernández
235_000_US$,_20 years, inadequate_form
Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

this guy should pop in a week or 2:

Lucius Ledesma
226_000_US$,_20 years, inadequate_form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: disastrous Keeper: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

And this guy should pop in 2-4 weeks when he is actually able to train:

Connie Griggs
133_000_US$,_19 years, passable_form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: inadequate
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Nyarlahotep · 04-25-2003, 12:20 PM

I think that last gut is two weeks from popping at most.

FrogMan · 04-25-2003, 02:21 PM

For what it's worth, my latest youth pull was an inadequate keeper valued at 144K. I decided to fire 3 of my 8 assistant coaches and hire 3 goalkeeping coaches and try to make him "pop" to passable by playing him in my friendly and training goalkeeping this week. Well, well, well, he popped!!! New value is 160K and he's going on the market in a few minutes, starting price 60 000$. Who wants a passable keeper for 60 000$, okay now you know he's a low passable, but still

FrogMan

AccardoOutfit29 · 04-25-2003, 02:38 PM

I had 9 goaltending coaches for about 2 weeks or so and at the moment I have 3. I've been training goaltending for about 2 weeks now with my keeper. When can I expect him to "pop" to a solid?

Lionel Holton (10960937)
21 years, inadequate form, healthy

A pleasant guy who is calm and dishonest.
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities.

Nationality: USA
Assessed value: 222 000 US$
Wage: 1 780 US$/week
Owner: McGees
Warnings: 0

Stamina: wretched Goaltending: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 02:45 PM

I would have to say 2 weeks, 3 weeks tops

sorry I didnt figure in age... I would have to revise my statement and say Approximately 6 weeks to bump him up.

dacman · 04-25-2003, 02:52 PM

I'd say 3-4 weeks. He's 21 and only 3 GK coaches...yeah probably 4 weeks or so.

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 03:04 PM

Well After much thought, I have decided to not add in any more numbers. there is not enough data at the other skill levels, except maybe excellent to justify doing this. I also do not have enough data at the other form levels. However you should now be able to buy goalies and train them and make some decent cash. You should also be able to pull goalies and know if you should keep him and train, or sell.

If someone knows how much of an effect trainers have on training that would be helpful.

dacman · 04-25-2003, 03:15 PM

Airhog -- check the markets again on Monday. All the new listings due to youth pulls will be out there and there may be more to look at.

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 03:22 PM

dacman: maybe so, but it takes alot of work to sift through hundreds of players. besides I dont think many people here will be buying goalies that have skills worse than weak. I also dont think people here would be buying goalies better than solid to train. Im thinking about just focusing on weak-excellent goalies, and trying to get all the different forms. I also need to work out how much an injured goalie loses in worth....

Above excellent though, I dont think there would be enough data too come up with a good number, and I dont know enough about math to predict it.

BishopMVP · 04-25-2003, 03:55 PM

Some data to help you. I'm guessing this guy would pop to solid in one week, but I'm doing general next week to prepare for the showdown in my series, so we'll see if he can pop without goalie training.

Debendranath Ghosh (6573015)
22 Years Old

Stamina: weak Keeper: passable
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

Form/Value
Disastrous 86,000
Wretched 123,000
Weak 205,000
Inadequate 245,000 (Stamina went from poor to weak)

Airhog · 04-25-2003, 05:57 PM

You can download the workbook here

http://home.swbell.net/cross11/hattrick.zip

Okay I have created a test version of my workbook. It includes a formula to determine how long it takes to train someone. I had to fill in alot of holes for the excellent players, but It should be somewhat accurate for them and all the rest. If you have a goalie that has other ratings better than poor or weak then it may take slightly longer for your goalie to increase. I tried not too add any goalies that were really good in other areas. I will not be here again until monday, Hopefully monday, I will be able to go back over my data, and further tune it, and maybe even add a few more categories. If you have any suggestions or comments please feel free to leave them here.

daedalus · 04-26-2003, 10:23 PM

Awesome work, Airhog!

Quote:

Originally posted by vexroid
Keepers don't go excellent anywhere around $360,000- $385,000.

$460,000-$485,000 is about right though.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nyarlahotep
And in passable form a solid keeper will hit excellent at about 500k. They would have to be in pretty bad form to pop around 375k.

Sounds like 475 000 - 500 000 range in passable form. Do y'all mean that value with no secondary skills? Admittedly, the only two "secondary" skills I really ever see with keepers are stamina and set pieces. Would those make a difference? Much?

'Cuz, uhhh, if it does, according to this:

Code:

Passable	155,000		297,000		1.9161

My passable goalkeeper with excellent stamina and passable set piece is an incredibly low passable at 174 000 in passable form.

Airhog · 04-28-2003, 05:10 PM

I think of all the stats, stamina, and set pieces influenece the price the least. Ive seen a few keepers that had good skills elsewhere and they were out of the ranges shown so I didnt include them.

Vince · 06-02-2003, 02:12 PM

Bumpity Bump.

04-25-2003, 12:09 AM	#3
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	But wheres the fun in that? Besides I dont think the devs just give out that information. I eventually would like to have a comprehensive guide as too how much form, age, and stamina affect price. Right now Im focusing on the goalie. Its going to be really tough to predict the change age has, and stamina will be tough too, but I think its doable.... __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-25-2003, 12:18 AM	#4
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	since i train keepers i kinda have an idea when they pop... Ive found that they are inadaquate up until about 125,000-150,000 They hit solid around 250,000-275,000 They go up again at out 360,000-385,000 Thought this might help... __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

04-25-2003, 12:22 AM	#6
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Your probably right, but thats not going to keep me from finding out, besides if they tell the whole world, they would lose the edge they have buying keepers about to pop __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-25-2003, 12:23 AM	#7
mrushh High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dallas,Tx	If my keeper is 258k and passable, does that mean he could VERY possibly go solid with a week training? Will he eventually go to solid on his own, as he keeps going up in value with no keeper training, or do you have to train to "pop?" __________________ Visit "Cowtown, Arise. A TCU- TCY Dynasty" in the Dynasty section.

04-25-2003, 12:30 AM	#12
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	all depends on form...im seeing guys with low form(therefore lower value) pop at around 385,000...if they have good form the value shoots up...like you said, your guy dropped 40k because of 1 level in form....all depends on form in my mind...im dealing with the lower end __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

04-25-2003, 12:00 AM	#2
Nyarlahotep College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2003	You can just ask for the keeper info on the HT forums.

04-25-2003, 12:19 AM	#5
Nyarlahotep College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2003	The Dev's won't tell you, but keeper trainers will.

04-25-2003, 12:26 AM	#8
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	My solid Keeper in excellent form WAS valued at $427,000. However, today, he dropped to passable form. Dropped $40,000 in value and is now at $397,000

04-25-2003, 12:27 AM	#9
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	Keepers don't go excellent anywhere around $360,000- $385,000. $460,000-$485,000 is about right though.

04-25-2003, 12:28 AM	#10
Nyarlahotep College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2003	If he is in passable form he will probably pop in one week of keeper training. He would pop eventaully just from you having keepr coaches, but that would take a while. And in passable form a solid keeper will hit excellent at about 500k. They would have to be in pretty bad form to pop around 375k.

04-25-2003, 12:29 AM	#11
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	Yeah, like wretched

04-25-2003, 12:31 AM	#14
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	That was 2 levels of form drop. Excellent to passable.

04-25-2003, 12:50 AM	#16
Nyarlahotep College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2003	at solid form it would be at least 550k I would think, probably more.

04-25-2003, 01:01 AM	#17
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Im still working on the data, but im getting close. I should have some results by tonight.... __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-25-2003, 03:09 AM	#18
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Okay, I have finally finished this. Note: All the players I looked at where younger than 28 years old. Im pretty sure that older players are worth less even though they have the same skills. Hopefully the age doesnt cause too much of a variance. These figures do not include the Stamina of a player, or any other skills a player has. This should be close enough though to decide approximately how many weeks you need to train to recieve a benefit in skills. It is my ultimate goal to figure out the true worth of skills. So you can look at any player, and quickly decide if he is going to level or not. This is a big task, but this has allowed us one step closer. If several people want the data, I have it in excel format and will make it available. Now on too the rankings. The data shown only covers the Weak-Solid ratings, I can easily add more ratings If needed Code: Poor Form Skill Low Price High Price H Price/L Price Weak 19000 47000 2.4737 Inadequate 48,000 109,000 2.2708 Passable 106,000 200,000 1.8868 Solid 201,000 344000 1.7114 Weak Form Skill Low Price High Price H Price/L Price Weak 27000 56000 2.0741 Inadequate 61,000 126,000 2.0656 Passable 135,000 235,000 1.7407 Solid 228,000 381,000 1.6711 Inadequate Form Skill Low Price High Price H Price/L Price Weak 29000 62000 2.1379 Inadequate 69,000 140,000 2.0290 Passable 142,000 252,000 1.7746 Solid 263,000 453,000 1.7224 Passable Form Low Price High Price H Price/L Price Weak 31000 74000 2.3871 Inadequate 75,000 160,000 2.1333 Passable 155,000 297,000 1.9161 Solid 296,000 525,000 1.7736 __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again! Last edited by Airhog : 04-25-2003 at 03:09 AM.

04-25-2003, 03:12 AM	#19
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	I will eventually extend this information to include more ratings, and more forms, but the main problem is a lack of higher forms, and lower forms. So all of that information would have to be extrapolated, and might not be as accurate. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-25-2003, 03:46 AM	#20
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Great work, Airhog! SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

04-25-2003, 06:20 AM	#21
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	my goalie turned solid at 320k he has a solid form as well

04-25-2003, 10:46 AM	#22
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	So quick keeper question: this guy should pop in a week or 2, right: Rafael Fernández 235_000_US$,_20 years, inadequate_form Has disastrous experience and passable leadership abilities Stamina: poor Keeper: passable Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous this guy should pop in a week or 2: Lucius Ledesma 226_000_US$,_20 years, inadequate_form Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities Stamina: disastrous Keeper: passable Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous And this guy should pop in 2-4 weeks when he is actually able to train: Connie Griggs 133_000_US$,_19 years, passable_form Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities Stamina: wretched Keeper: inadequate Playmaking: poor Passing: poor Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous

04-25-2003, 12:20 PM	#23
Nyarlahotep College Benchwarmer Join Date: Mar 2003	I think that last gut is two weeks from popping at most.

04-25-2003, 02:21 PM	#24
FrogMan Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada	For what it's worth, my latest youth pull was an inadequate keeper valued at 144K. I decided to fire 3 of my 8 assistant coaches and hire 3 goalkeeping coaches and try to make him "pop" to passable by playing him in my friendly and training goalkeeping this week. Well, well, well, he popped!!! New value is 160K and he's going on the market in a few minutes, starting price 60 000$. Who wants a passable keeper for 60 000$, okay now you know he's a low passable, but still FrogMan __________________ A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog...

04-25-2003, 02:38 PM	#25
AccardoOutfit29 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL	I had 9 goaltending coaches for about 2 weeks or so and at the moment I have 3. I've been training goaltending for about 2 weeks now with my keeper. When can I expect him to "pop" to a solid? Lionel Holton (10960937) 21 years, inadequate form, healthy A pleasant guy who is calm and dishonest. Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities. Nationality: USA Assessed value: 222 000 US$ Wage: 1 780 US$/week Owner: McGees Warnings: 0 Stamina: wretched Goaltending: passable Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched __________________ Manager of the McGees 2

04-25-2003, 02:45 PM	#26
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	I would have to say 2 weeks, 3 weeks tops sorry I didnt figure in age... I would have to revise my statement and say Approximately 6 weeks to bump him up. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again! Last edited by Airhog : 04-25-2003 at 03:15 PM.

04-25-2003, 02:52 PM	#27
dacman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: speak to the trout	I'd say 3-4 weeks. He's 21 and only 3 GK coaches...yeah probably 4 weeks or so. __________________ No signatures allowed.

04-25-2003, 03:04 PM	#28
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Well After much thought, I have decided to not add in any more numbers. there is not enough data at the other skill levels, except maybe excellent to justify doing this. I also do not have enough data at the other form levels. However you should now be able to buy goalies and train them and make some decent cash. You should also be able to pull goalies and know if you should keep him and train, or sell. If someone knows how much of an effect trainers have on training that would be helpful. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-25-2003, 03:15 PM	#29
dacman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: speak to the trout	Airhog -- check the markets again on Monday. All the new listings due to youth pulls will be out there and there may be more to look at. __________________ No signatures allowed.

04-25-2003, 03:22 PM	#30
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	dacman: maybe so, but it takes alot of work to sift through hundreds of players. besides I dont think many people here will be buying goalies that have skills worse than weak. I also dont think people here would be buying goalies better than solid to train. Im thinking about just focusing on weak-excellent goalies, and trying to get all the different forms. I also need to work out how much an injured goalie loses in worth.... Above excellent though, I dont think there would be enough data too come up with a good number, and I dont know enough about math to predict it. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-25-2003, 03:55 PM	#31
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Some data to help you. I'm guessing this guy would pop to solid in one week, but I'm doing general next week to prepare for the showdown in my series, so we'll see if he can pop without goalie training. Debendranath Ghosh (6573015) 22 Years Old Stamina: weak Keeper: passable Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous Winger: disastrous Defending: disastrous Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: disastrous Form/Value Disastrous 86,000 Wretched 123,000 Weak 205,000 Inadequate 245,000 (Stamina went from poor to weak)

04-25-2003, 05:57 PM	#32
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	You can download the workbook here http://home.swbell.net/cross11/hattrick.zip Okay I have created a test version of my workbook. It includes a formula to determine how long it takes to train someone. I had to fill in alot of holes for the excellent players, but It should be somewhat accurate for them and all the rest. If you have a goalie that has other ratings better than poor or weak then it may take slightly longer for your goalie to increase. I tried not too add any goalies that were really good in other areas. I will not be here again until monday, Hopefully monday, I will be able to go back over my data, and further tune it, and maybe even add a few more categories. If you have any suggestions or comments please feel free to leave them here. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

04-28-2003, 05:10 PM	#34
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	I think of all the stats, stamina, and set pieces influenece the price the least. Ive seen a few keepers that had good skills elsewhere and they were out of the ranges shown so I didnt include them. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

06-02-2003, 02:12 PM	#35
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Bumpity Bump. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)