Milwaukee Sikh Temple attack

[GrantDawg]

Number of people dead, and the shooter is still in the temple with hostages.

Shooting at Oak Creek Sikh Temple Outside of Milwaukee, in Oak Creek, Wisconsin - ABC News

[sterlingice]

Sikh? Who hates the Sikhs?

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Sikh? Who hates the Sikhs?

SI

Pakistanis? From the article though it sounds like a white guy so probably just some nutjob idiot. Maybe he thought because it said temple on the sign that he was killing Jews.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

Pakistanis? From the article though it sounds like a white guy so probably just some nutjob idiot. Maybe he thought because it said temple on the sign that he was killing Jews.

Or Muslims ("Well, they wear something on their head")

SI

[bhlloy]

If I had to guess I'd say more likely probably targeting Muslims (it's happened quite a few times with idiots in the UK who can't distinguish between the two), but let's not speculate at this point

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Or Muslims ("Well, they wear something on their head")

SI

Yeah and he actually would be killing the ememy of Pakistani Muslims as well with that line of thinking.

[sterlingice]

No one said that someone going on a shooting spree is smart...

SI

[stevew]

New report had the shooter as "put down" and a cop shot multiple times but expected to survive.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by stevew

New report had the shooter as "put down" and a cop shot multiple times but expected to survive.

Yeah, that was said at the news conference. They still don't know if there are/were more than one shooters. One man, saying he was the son of the temple president, said he was told the attack was multiple shooters that were well organized. But who knows, it still could have just been the one.

[GrantDawg]

4 dead inside, 3 outside including shooter. No other shooters found so far.

[bronconick]

Hat tip to the cop in this case if the way it was described is true. First and only one on the scene, took multiple wounds and put the shooter down.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Hat tip to the cop in this case if the way it was described is true. First and only one on the scene, took multiple wounds and put the shooter down.

Real hero stuff.

[GrantDawg]

So, the FBI is taking over the investigation as a "domestic terrorist" incident.

[Crapshoot]

What the fuck is with the inbred masses who do this kind of thing? And a media that feels like it needs to remind people that Sikhs aren't Muslim, as if there is some sort of implicit understanding that that would be more in line with expectations?

[stevew]

The description of the shooter, overweight, balding, white man with no sleeves closely matched that of Larry the Cable Guy.

[lighthousekeeper]

yesterday if someone asked me what religion sikhs were, and i was forced to give a quick answer, my first instinct would have been muslim. yeah i'm an idiot.

[GrantDawg]

I told my wife yesterday after the description was given of the hunman, that the guy sounded a skin-head Neo-Nazi. Now, that sounds likely:

Source: Wisconsin temple gunman was Army vet, possibly a white supremacist - CNN.com

[GrantDawg]

Dola: In other words, if you were to explain the difference between Sikh and Muslim to him, he still wouldn't have cared.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

What the fuck is with the inbred masses who do this kind of thing? And a media that feels like it needs to remind people that Sikhs aren't Muslim, as if there is some sort of implicit understanding that that would be more in line with expectations?

Well to be fair, they know that's what the viewers are thinking/assuming. But yeah it kind of smacks like, "This is even worse than you thought. They're not even Muslims!"

[Glengoyne]

While the reported history of the gunman being a white supremecist and bearing a 9/11 tattoo do seem to point to the assailant's ignorance of the differences between Sikhs and Muslims, I don't think that necessarily paints the whole picture. As a resident of a small community neighboring a Sikh temple, I can say that there are no small number of people who resent the presence and the prominence of these temples in the communities in which they reside.

So while blind ignorant hatred is currently the probable culprit, I think there is a good chance that targeted ignorant hatred will eventually prevail as the root cause of this attack.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

While the reported history of the gunman being a white supremecist and bearing a 9/11 tattoo do seem to point to the assailant's ignorance of the differences between Sikhs and Muslims, I don't think that necessarily paints the whole picture. As a resident of a small community neighboring a Sikh temple, I can say that there are no small number of people who resent the presence and the prominence of these temples in the communities in which they reside.

So while blind ignorant hatred is currently the probable culprit, I think there is a good chance that targeted ignorant hatred will eventually prevail as the root cause of this attack.

Wait really - people in your community resent these gurdawaras (actual name)? DO they resent churches as well (is it a noise thing, or a specifically brown people thing)? Obviously not about you, but wondering why this is an issue.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

specifically brown people thing?

*pushes all chips into the pot on this*

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Wait really - people in your community resent these gurdawaras (actual name)? DO they resent churches as well (is it a noise thing, or a specifically brown people thing)? Obviously not about you, but wondering why this is an issue.

Well these folks have the effrontery to be proud of their culture and heritage, and they demonstrate that while participating in community events. They march in parades, they man booths at festivals, and once a year they close down a number of local thoroughfares, including the main street, to march through the community en masse to share their culture with the town. So yeah, this is a brown people thing, though most those that are opposed to their exposure to Sikh culture would adamantly deny that.

In general, people don't like people that are different from them and proud of it to boot.

[JediKooter]

What better? Xenophobia or racism?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Well these folks have the effrontery to be proud of their culture and heritage, and they demonstrate that while participating in community events. They march in parades, they man booths at festivals, and once a year they close down a number of local thoroughfares, including the main street, to march through the community en masse to share their culture with the town. So yeah, this is a brown people thing, though most those that are opposed to their exposure to Sikh culture would adamantly deny that.

In general, people don't like people that are different from them and proud of it to boot.

Is it that they don't like that they are different, or they don't like the perceived similarities between them and the terrorists we se on our TV?

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Is it that they don't like that they are different, or they don't like the perceived similarities between them and the terrorists we se on our TV?

My money is on different and proud enough of it to proclaim it. They just won't melt in our melting pot.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Wait really - people in your community resent these gurdawaras (actual name)? DO they resent churches as well (is it a noise thing, or a specifically brown people thing)? Obviously not about you, but wondering why this is an issue.

Of course they do, they are different, and xenophobia brings on resentment. Even if the Sikhs fought alongside us in WW1 and WW2 and lost 85,000 lives.

It's unfortunate that some people think turban equals Muslim. Or that Muslim equals enemy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

It's unfortunate that some people think turban equals Muslim. Or that Muslim equals enemy.

Well, at least you managed to hit .500.

[DanGarion]

Wow... just wow.

[bronconick]

Why are you surprised?

[SirFozzie]

Forget it Jake, it's JoninMiddleGA-town..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_BVNGAfYM

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Why are you surprised?

The sad part is, I'm not.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Wow... just wow.

You've gotta be kidding me.

Disapproval, I can buy that as a reaction. But "wow" seems to indicate surprise somehow.

I'd be inclined to wager -- if I were a betting man that is -- that at least 80% of the FOFC long time regulars could have made that connection within two tries if they had role-played me doing word association.

Hell, "enemy" is one of my favorite words to define, as I'm occasionally (and alternately) amused/frustrated by those who either shrink in horror from it or seem so frightened of it that they wander around in a state of denial.

Enemy: "1. One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes the interests of another; a foe."
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000

See? It's really not such a scary word, nor is it even particularly all that damning in & of itself. It doesn't bite, it's just a word that describes a particular relationship between people/groups/organizations.

edit to add: And for the love of Pete, PLEASE don't tell me you somehow managed to incorrectly guess which part I meant you got right. If you got that part backwards, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be insulted.

[lungs]

Following stormfront.org during this has been interesting... The only reasons I've really seen on there for targeting the Sikh's is that they smell like curry and drive taxis.

Not at all surprised that this guy hailed from Cudahy.....

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You've gotta be kidding me.

Disapproval, I can buy that as a reaction. But "wow" seems to indicate surprise somehow.

I'd be inclined to wager -- if I were a betting man that is -- that at least 80% of the FOFC long time regulars could have made that connection within two tries if they had role-played me doing word association.

Hell, "enemy" is one of my favorite words to define, as I'm occasionally (and alternately) amused/frustrated by those who either shrink in horror from it or seem so frightened of it that they wander around in a state of denial.

Enemy: "1. One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes the interests of another; a foe."
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000

See? It's really not such a scary word, nor is it even particularly all that damning in & of itself. It doesn't bite, it's just a word that describes a particular relationship between people/groups/organizations.

edit to add: And for the love of Pete, PLEASE don't tell me you somehow managed to incorrectly guess which part I meant you got right. If you got that part backwards, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be insulted.

Trust me I knew what part you were talking about, and sadly it doesn't surprise me. Personally I think feeling hatred or intending injury towards an entire group you don't know is quite scary, because I know you aren't the only person like this. It's disheartening to know people can live with so much negative emotion towards someone they don't know.

Honestly Jon I feel sorry for you that you have such an overall feeling towards a particular group. It really feels like so much wasted energy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Trust me I knew what part you were talking about,

Well, at least that's encouraging.

Honestly Jon I feel sorry for you that you have such an overall feeling towards a particular group.

's okay, I pity those unwilling to see the evidence in front of them & form a rational conclusion. I'd say that's about even. {shrug}

And now, pending your cooperation, I say we leave this sidebar there & avoid further derailment from the main topic. Arguing the socio-political relationship of Islam and the West probably just adds confusion to a thread about attacks on Sikhs.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by lungs

Following stormfront.org during this has been interesting... The only reasons I've really seen on there for targeting the Sikh's is that they smell like curry and drive taxis.

Not at all surprised that this guy hailed from Cudahy.....

It sort of scares me that you read that forum.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It sort of scares me that you read that forum.

Not regularly, times like this are when I check it out for their reaction. No way in hell do I agree with anything on there. But reading some crazy stuff like that can be somewhat entertaining.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Muhammed Ali = Muslim

Kareem Abdul Jabar = Muslim

Ahmad Rashad = Muslim

Muslim = Enemy?

It's a sad world we live in where ignorance seems to rule so often...

[Crapshoot]

I for one, look forward to Jon's kid deciding to marry a gay, liberal muslim man. If that doesn't teach him the basic decency and respect most of us have, nothing will.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I for one, look forward to Jon's kid deciding to marry a gay, liberal muslim man. If that doesn't teach him the basic decency and respect most of us have, nothing will.

You're not the first here to come up with that sort of attack, I doubt you'll be the last. I'd have thought better from you, but hey, that's life.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And now, pending your cooperation, I say we leave this sidebar there & avoid further derailment from the main topic. Arguing the socio-political relationship of Islam and the West probably just adds confusion to a thread about attacks on Sikhs.

Agreed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I for one, look forward to Jon's kid deciding to marry a gay, liberal muslim man. If that doesn't teach him the basic decency and respect most of us have, nothing will.

You don't have to agree with John and his views, but to make a comment about his kid like that is pretty low.

[Scoobz0202]

What? That wishing his son is being gay is low, or that he would have to deal with Jon?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You're not the first here to come up with that sort of attack, I doubt you'll be the last. I'd have thought better from you, but hey, that's life.

Originally Posted by Lathum

You don't have to agree with John and his views, but to make a comment about his kid like that is pretty low.

Wait, hold on - that's an "attack?" My sister is going to marry a Muslim - its only offensive to the kind of person who views that outcome as an insult. Treat people for who they are and what they say, not their ethnicity and/or sexuality.

[EagleFan]

Actually, Jon is safe. Gay and muslim don't go together anymore than liberal and muslim do.

[Young Drachma]

Watching White Supremacists React to the Sikh Temple Shooting - National - The Atlantic Wire

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Watching White Supremacists React to the Sikh Temple Shooting - National - The Atlantic Wire

So I'm not the only one that found reading Stormfront during this to be interesting

I started reading the thread in question even before we knew who did this mostly because I wanted to see the Stormfront reaction to a bunch of brown people being shot up.

[Crapshoot]

Wade Michael Page's acquaintances recall a troubled man guided by hate | World news | guardian.co.uk

This is really troubling. This shit was acceptable in the barracks et all?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Wade Michael Page's acquaintances recall a troubled man guided by hate | World news | guardian.co.uk

This is really troubling. This shit was acceptable in the barracks et all?

Depending on where you are stationed, what your job is and so forth...you don't have to live in the dorms for that long really. And on base, the dorms are like college dorms essentially.

And so yeah, you can totally live a "double life" in a sense. No one pays much mind to you after your work hours.