Why no uptick in multiplayer since FOF7 came out?

Kodos · 05-01-2014, 08:51 AM

I was expecting to see MP leagues start to fill up more with the release of the new game, but it doesn't seem like that has happened. Discuss!

Ben E Lou · 05-01-2014, 09:45 AM

Small sample size? I'm guessing that you're looking at the IHOF.

First off, in the last days of FOF2K7, there were around 20 leagues going, most not full, and it appeared that the majority of owners played in more than one league. My best estimate--and I checked this fairly carefully shortly before the conversion to figure out strategy for filling up my leagues and potentially starting a new one--is that there were 250-300 people playing FOF MP in leagues that recruit at FOFC, pre-FOF7.

I sent the files for the leagues that I run (CCFL and GML) on the day that Jim made the conversion available. As with nearly all leagues, some people dropped out of those because they didn't buy the new game. The CCFL filled up pretty much immediately (around 10 spots including the attrition). The GML took a little longer (around 15 spots including the attrition), but as of today, both of those have 32 active owners. I also started one other league from scratch with the new game before the conversion was available, so that was able to get to 32 owners very fast. Another league also started from scratch shortly after the release.

So, the bottom line is that what I was thinking would happen (and why I converted my leagues so quickly) is the cause: the leagues that didn't wait to convert and the new leagues snatched up a big majority of the new-to-FOF-MP and the reenergized-by-the-new-game owners, leaving those who waited a little longer with spots to fill.

Going back to the IHOF example, though, that league has added more owners than it lost. Pre-conversion, there were three or four openings. Now there's 1.5. (One owner can't get the new game to run on a Mac but may get a PC at some point in the fairly near future, so his team is on AI, but not really "available.")

So my best guess is that the spots filled by the early-adapting leagues and the two new leagues comprise roughly 30-50 owners who were not playing FOF MP in the months before the conversion. It's not a huge number, but it's a significant addition (10ish-20ish %) to the overall pool, which was pretty small to begin with.

Kodos · 05-01-2014, 10:06 AM

Fair enough. I guess my samples were IHOF and HFL, so I figured most leagues were having trouble filling to 32.

Ben E Lou · 05-01-2014, 10:41 AM

A few other thoughts...

The TFL also converted pretty quickly and grabbed some owners.
On the whole, I strongly suspect that the universe of FOF owners is getting older faster than young new blood is coming in. There are many of us who were single and/or childless when we started with FOF who are now married and raising kids. There's just less total time available for MP.
As a result of the second point, I think it's fairly obvious that there are more leagues than the current pool of owners can support. I mean, two new leagues started when very few of the existing 20ish leagues were full. It's easy to say "some leagues just need to shut down then." But which leagues? People have built up as much as 10 years of real-time and 40+ years of in-game history in their leagues, so just shutting down and joining a new league sounds very unappealing. My guess is that there a bunch of people who think "shut down a few leagues" is the best solution. But it's kind of like a comment Wade made back in FOF2K7 when we were struggling with the utter lack of talent in the FA pools, something along the lines of: "everyone wants good FAs to be available, but no one wants to enact rules that might make THEIR good players become FAs." In the current situation, no one wants THEIR league to be one of the ones to shut down.

Kodos · 05-01-2014, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

A few other thoughts...

On the whole, I strongly suspect that the universe of FOF owners is getting older faster than young new blood is coming in. There are many of us who were single and/or childless when we started with FOF who are now married and raising kids. There's just less total time available for MP.

The lack of time is what made me opt to step away. I felt like I didn't have the time to invest in learning how to play competitively, and I didn't want to settle for running a subpar team.

QuikSand · 05-01-2014, 11:04 AM

The game is not being marketed.

sjshaw · 05-01-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The game is not being marketed.

+1

Landshark44 · 05-01-2014, 04:46 PM

NAFL just had 6 people apply for two open spots...

(without even posting the openings)

North American Football League

sjshaw · 05-01-2014, 05:27 PM

FOFL needs owners... send the overflow our way!

Dutch · 05-01-2014, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The game is not being marketed.

Steam would certainly help. Any idea where FOF is with that?

Dutch · 05-01-2014, 09:10 PM

Disregard...forgot about the thread and I see a recent update there.

PackerFanatic · 05-02-2014, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjshaw

FOFL needs owners... send the overflow our way!

No kidding, RNFL has openings too!

We have had a couple new folks, but nothing major.

Prinzar · 05-02-2014, 02:20 PM

How did you hear about FOF before you first bought it? I searched for years (literally) for an NFL version of Championship Manager/ Football Manager.

I had been using Madden 08 on PC with lots of mods to keep the game alive. I searched for an editor and got a Wikipedia link, which had FOF mentioned in the article. I instantly bought the game.

I doubt you could find the game on a Google search unless you were very specific with search terms. People just don't stumble upon this game unfortunately

chinaski · 05-03-2014, 12:36 AM

HFL needs owners badly, I hate seeing the league with so few owners. I think ive been a GM there for 11 real years now?!

Firefly · 05-03-2014, 10:19 AM

CFL (Cyber FL) is a funny case, we had a nice waiting list before the new version, but we had a lot of vacancies with the new version. End result is we're still full but no more people on the waiting list.

Maybe it's because we didn't convert until the season ended, like Ben said.

General Mike · 05-03-2014, 07:52 PM

To me, it just seems like the overall pool of GMs just isn't as big as it used to be. There were guys who I was in 2k4 leagues with and 2k7 leagues with who just aren't around anymore at all.

I think the bigger question is why don't they play anymore? Did they get bored by the game? Life issues?

Caligari · 05-04-2014, 06:32 AM

Just to comment for myself.

I've never dived into the MP leagues. Each release I play the game, and love it, but I'm not confident that I understand what I am doing well enough to face off against others who a) have been doing this a lot longer, and those who b) have worked it all out better than I have. I don't want to make a fool of myself, and probably I don't want to lose as much as I'd deserve to lose.

It is also a factor that, as suggested by others above, I've got a family and my time evaporates on occasion and I don't want to leave an ongoing set of GMs in the lurch if things go south.

But, each time a new game comes out I look at what people are writing about the leagues out there, and I can't help but wonder...

redfox000 · 05-05-2014, 06:51 AM

I am a single parent with three kids. So that keeps me busy and I don't have a regular schedule of times I can play. It's kind of here and there. Plus I enjoy SP. With MP there are too many people who know the tricks and loopholes...it takes the fun out of it. Plus with so many people knowing the ins and outs of the draft and being able to tell exactly who is good and who isnt....doesn't make it fun. I like just doing SP and gameplanning the way I want to...whether it is optimal or not. Actually, usually I call all the offensive plays for my team and let the AI run the defense. That is more fun for me than trying to setup an offensive gameplan to play the way I want...because often times in a game my gamplan that i went in with is totally flipped upside down based on how the game is going.

nflchampion · 05-05-2014, 11:58 AM

I would encourage people who have held off joining a MP league because they're afraid others will know all the tricks to join a league. With the transition to FOF7 especially, people are largely in the dark. Plus, even if you're losing most leagues I've been a part of have consistently good camaraderie among members and don't really require too much day to day maintenance to keep up. Worth trying for a couple of seasons at least...

Landshark44 · 05-05-2014, 12:11 PM

I'll point out that in WOOF, a new FOF league with a dispersal draft... A league featuring some of the great minds in FOF history....

The initial Championship was won by a first time player....

Dutch · 05-05-2014, 05:31 PM

You know what they say in WOOF? Every dog has his day.

Caligari · 05-06-2014, 02:15 AM

Follow up: I'm taking on a team in USFL. Not enough to be called an uptick on my own, I'm sure.

OldGiants · 05-06-2014, 07:24 AM

The bigger issue for myself and friends is that this new version of FOF is not much of a leap forward. Several of us have talked about forming a league when the new version came out, but now, none of us has been motivated by what we've seen to even buy the new game.

That could change when exhib games start in August, at least I plan to buy then.

Landshark44 · 05-06-2014, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

Follow up: I'm taking on a team in USFL. Not enough to be called an uptick on my own, I'm sure.

good choice...

Pacersfan46 · 05-06-2014, 08:55 AM

I used to play basketball games like FOF in MP, many years ago. I understand basketball MUCH better than I do football and I was pretty successful at it.

No clue how I'd do in a football game. I like playing the single player, but I don't know. Never given it much thought.

NawlinsFan · 05-06-2014, 08:26 PM

Make the jump PF, you will enjoy it. Sure there will be times your frustrated but challenging others becomes so much more interesting then what SP brings to the table. As you learn more you will begin to find your balance between fielding good players and managing the office.

Caligari · 05-06-2014, 10:16 PM

I have to say that I'm not sure how it used to be, but it is a lot less complicated to be part of a MP league than I'd expected, what with all the files which have to go to and fro. That's one area I expected would be a nightmare but has been easy to get on-board with.

Landshark44 · 05-07-2014, 01:33 AM

We are very eager to take on some new blood in the USFL. It is one of the longest running FOF leagues going.. Happy Caligari decided to join us, I can tell already he will be a solid addition... I'm hoping some more of you that are on the fence will decide to join us... I think you will find it very easy to be competitive, and enjoy the experience..

I recently stepped down from a league or two, and could not believe how much I missed it.. (multi-player) You make some pretty good friends in every league you are in.. hoping you choose USFL, we will be happy to help you get set up...

PackerFanatic · 05-07-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

I have to say that I'm not sure how it used to be, but it is a lot less complicated to be part of a MP league than I'd expected, what with all the files which have to go to and fro. That's one area I expected would be a nightmare but has been easy to get on-board with.

It is crazy how much easier it is now, for players and Commissioners alike.

sqvirrel · 05-07-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGiants

The bigger issue for myself and friends is that this new version of FOF is not much of a leap forward. Several of us have talked about forming a league when the new version came out, but now, none of us has been motivated by what we've seen to even buy the new game.

That could change when exhib games start in August, at least I plan to buy then.

This is pretty close to my opinion too. Haven't bought and don't know if I will. When I read that the emphasis for 7 would be on MP when that probably represents a small minority and when there were so many ways SP could have been tweaked I lost interest in being an early adopter. Not being able to port my career is also a factor.

I've heard adjectives like "definitely harder", haven't heard a lot of "wow, so much better!".

Would definitely buy if it was just an updated version of 2k7 with the annoying bugs in gameplay ironed out.

sjshaw · 05-08-2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

I have to say that I'm not sure how it used to be, but it is a lot less complicated to be part of a MP league than I'd expected, what with all the files which have to go to and fro. That's one area I expected would be a nightmare but has been easy to get on-board with.

Jim did a good job with that aspect for sure.

05-01-2014, 09:45 AM	#2
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Small sample size? I'm guessing that you're looking at the IHOF. First off, in the last days of FOF2K7, there were around 20 leagues going, most not full, and it appeared that the majority of owners played in more than one league. My best estimate--and I checked this fairly carefully shortly before the conversion to figure out strategy for filling up my leagues and potentially starting a new one--is that there were 250-300 people playing FOF MP in leagues that recruit at FOFC, pre-FOF7. I sent the files for the leagues that I run (CCFL and GML) on the day that Jim made the conversion available. As with nearly all leagues, some people dropped out of those because they didn't buy the new game. The CCFL filled up pretty much immediately (around 10 spots including the attrition). The GML took a little longer (around 15 spots including the attrition), but as of today, both of those have 32 active owners. I also started one other league from scratch with the new game before the conversion was available, so that was able to get to 32 owners very fast. Another league also started from scratch shortly after the release. So, the bottom line is that what I was thinking would happen (and why I converted my leagues so quickly) is the cause: the leagues that didn't wait to convert and the new leagues snatched up a big majority of the new-to-FOF-MP and the reenergized-by-the-new-game owners, leaving those who waited a little longer with spots to fill. Going back to the IHOF example, though, that league has added more owners than it lost. Pre-conversion, there were three or four openings. Now there's 1.5. (One owner can't get the new game to run on a Mac but may get a PC at some point in the fairly near future, so his team is on AI, but not really "available.") So my best guess is that the spots filled by the early-adapting leagues and the two new leagues comprise roughly 30-50 owners who were not playing FOF MP in the months before the conversion. It's not a huge number, but it's a significant addition (10ish-20ish %) to the overall pool, which was pretty small to begin with. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 05-01-2014 at 10:13 AM.

05-01-2014, 10:06 AM	#3
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Fair enough. I guess my samples were IHOF and HFL, so I figured most leagues were having trouble filling to 32. __________________ Indiana Hoosiers Football - 2025-26 National Champs The FOFC Ladder History thread Last edited by Kodos : 05-01-2014 at 10:07 AM.

05-01-2014, 10:41 AM	#4
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	A few other thoughts... The TFL also converted pretty quickly and grabbed some owners. On the whole, I strongly suspect that the universe of FOF owners is getting older faster than young new blood is coming in. There are many of us who were single and/or childless when we started with FOF who are now married and raising kids. There's just less total time available for MP. As a result of the second point, I think it's fairly obvious that there are more leagues than the current pool of owners can support. I mean, two new leagues started when very few of the existing 20ish leagues were full. It's easy to say "some leagues just need to shut down then." But which leagues? People have built up as much as 10 years of real-time and 40+ years of in-game history in their leagues, so just shutting down and joining a new league sounds very unappealing. My guess is that there a bunch of people who think "shut down a few leagues" is the best solution. But it's kind of like a comment Wade made back in FOF2K7 when we were struggling with the utter lack of talent in the FA pools, something along the lines of: "everyone wants good FAs to be available, but no one wants to enact rules that might make THEIR good players become FAs." In the current situation, no one wants THEIR league to be one of the ones to shut down. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

05-01-2014, 04:46 PM	#8
Landshark44 High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Atlantic City, NJ	NAFL just had 6 people apply for two open spots... (without even posting the openings) North American Football League Last edited by Landshark44 : 05-01-2014 at 04:53 PM.

05-01-2014, 05:27 PM	#9
sjshaw lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000	FOFL needs owners... send the overflow our way! __________________ Hollywood Media Whores FOBL CHAMPION 2007 2020 2035

05-01-2014, 11:04 AM	#6
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	The game is not being marketed.

05-01-2014, 09:10 PM	#11
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	Disregard...forgot about the thread and I see a recent update there.

05-02-2014, 02:20 PM	#13
Prinzar n00b Join Date: Oct 2011	How did you hear about FOF before you first bought it? I searched for years (literally) for an NFL version of Championship Manager/ Football Manager. I had been using Madden 08 on PC with lots of mods to keep the game alive. I searched for an editor and got a Wikipedia link, which had FOF mentioned in the article. I instantly bought the game. I doubt you could find the game on a Google search unless you were very specific with search terms. People just don't stumble upon this game unfortunately

05-03-2014, 12:36 AM	#14
chinaski College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon	HFL needs owners badly, I hate seeing the league with so few owners. I think ive been a GM there for 11 real years now?! __________________ CCFL - Buffalo Bills IHOF - Houston Mustangs GML - San Diego

05-03-2014, 10:19 AM	#15
Firefly High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2007	CFL (Cyber FL) is a funny case, we had a nice waiting list before the new version, but we had a lot of vacancies with the new version. End result is we're still full but no more people on the waiting list. Maybe it's because we didn't convert until the season ended, like Ben said.

05-03-2014, 07:52 PM	#16
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	To me, it just seems like the overall pool of GMs just isn't as big as it used to be. There were guys who I was in 2k4 leagues with and 2k7 leagues with who just aren't around anymore at all. I think the bigger question is why don't they play anymore? Did they get bored by the game? Life issues?

05-04-2014, 06:32 AM	#17
Caligari Mascot Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Just to comment for myself. I've never dived into the MP leagues. Each release I play the game, and love it, but I'm not confident that I understand what I am doing well enough to face off against others who a) have been doing this a lot longer, and those who b) have worked it all out better than I have. I don't want to make a fool of myself, and probably I don't want to lose as much as I'd deserve to lose. It is also a factor that, as suggested by others above, I've got a family and my time evaporates on occasion and I don't want to leave an ongoing set of GMs in the lurch if things go south. But, each time a new game comes out I look at what people are writing about the leagues out there, and I can't help but wonder...

05-05-2014, 06:51 AM	#18
redfox000 Mascot Join Date: Jul 2005	I am a single parent with three kids. So that keeps me busy and I don't have a regular schedule of times I can play. It's kind of here and there. Plus I enjoy SP. With MP there are too many people who know the tricks and loopholes...it takes the fun out of it. Plus with so many people knowing the ins and outs of the draft and being able to tell exactly who is good and who isnt....doesn't make it fun. I like just doing SP and gameplanning the way I want to...whether it is optimal or not. Actually, usually I call all the offensive plays for my team and let the AI run the defense. That is more fun for me than trying to setup an offensive gameplan to play the way I want...because often times in a game my gamplan that i went in with is totally flipped upside down based on how the game is going. Last edited by redfox000 : 05-05-2014 at 06:53 AM.

05-05-2014, 11:58 AM	#19
nflchampion n00b Join Date: Nov 2008	I would encourage people who have held off joining a MP league because they're afraid others will know all the tricks to join a league. With the transition to FOF7 especially, people are largely in the dark. Plus, even if you're losing most leagues I've been a part of have consistently good camaraderie among members and don't really require too much day to day maintenance to keep up. Worth trying for a couple of seasons at least...

05-05-2014, 12:11 PM	#20
Landshark44 High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Atlantic City, NJ	I'll point out that in WOOF, a new FOF league with a dispersal draft... A league featuring some of the great minds in FOF history.... The initial Championship was won by a first time player.... Last edited by Landshark44 : 05-05-2014 at 12:12 PM.

05-05-2014, 05:31 PM	#21
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	You know what they say in WOOF? Every dog has his day.

05-06-2014, 02:15 AM	#22
Caligari Mascot Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Follow up: I'm taking on a team in USFL. Not enough to be called an uptick on my own, I'm sure.

05-06-2014, 07:24 AM	#23
OldGiants College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Location, Location, Location	The bigger issue for myself and friends is that this new version of FOF is not much of a leap forward. Several of us have talked about forming a league when the new version came out, but now, none of us has been motivated by what we've seen to even buy the new game. That could change when exhib games start in August, at least I plan to buy then. __________________ "The case of Great Britain is the most astonishing in this matter of inequality of rights in world soccer championships. The way they explained it to me as a child, God is one but He's three: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I could never understand it. And I still don't understand why Great Britain is one but she's four....while [others] continue to be no more than one despite the diverse nationalities that make them up." Eduardo Galeano, SOCCER IN SUN AND SHADOW

05-06-2014, 08:55 AM	#25
Pacersfan46 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis	I used to play basketball games like FOF in MP, many years ago. I understand basketball MUCH better than I do football and I was pretty successful at it. No clue how I'd do in a football game. I like playing the single player, but I don't know. Never given it much thought.

05-06-2014, 08:26 PM	#26
NawlinsFan High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Southern Maryland - For Now!	Make the jump PF, you will enjoy it. Sure there will be times your frustrated but challenging others becomes so much more interesting then what SP brings to the table. As you learn more you will begin to find your balance between fielding good players and managing the office.

05-06-2014, 10:16 PM	#27
Caligari Mascot Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia	I have to say that I'm not sure how it used to be, but it is a lot less complicated to be part of a MP league than I'd expected, what with all the files which have to go to and fro. That's one area I expected would be a nightmare but has been easy to get on-board with.

05-07-2014, 01:33 AM	#28
Landshark44 High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Atlantic City, NJ	We are very eager to take on some new blood in the USFL. It is one of the longest running FOF leagues going.. Happy Caligari decided to join us, I can tell already he will be a solid addition... I'm hoping some more of you that are on the fence will decide to join us... I think you will find it very easy to be competitive, and enjoy the experience.. I recently stepped down from a league or two, and could not believe how much I missed it.. (multi-player) You make some pretty good friends in every league you are in.. hoping you choose USFL, we will be happy to help you get set up...

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