Running QBs

Hammer · 05-05-2014, 12:46 PM

Just having a chat over in the NAFL about running QBs. It occurred to me that it is a big factor whether QBs run with intelligence or just randomly?

Five yards can be huge on 3rd and 5, is the QB aware of the significance of their run. If not, its never going to compare to real life and what a running QB adds in the NFL.

I haven't really played the game to the extent that I have had chance to form an opinion. Just thought I would put it out there to those who have had more experience with the new game.

Julio Riddols · 05-05-2014, 12:53 PM

QB's that run AND throw are a huge benefit to any team. Having a guy that can run for 800 yards while throwing for 4000 makes for a very hard to stop offense. QB's that can run and not throw well can still be useful if they do not turn the ball over. QBs that can throw but don't run are the same as they have always been, IMO.

The main thing to find in a QB is one that fits the offense you want to run and avoids turnovers as much as possible. Everything they can bring in addition to that is gravy.

Hammer · 05-05-2014, 12:58 PM

What I am getting at is, does the running QB in FOF7 know where the chains are - like a real player.

700 yards is all well and good, but it makes a big difference if the QB has that intelligence. Running when it makes sense...

Julio Riddols · 05-05-2014, 01:03 PM

Well I doubt the game goes that much in depth when determining play results. I believe that it is better to have a QB who can get you yards with his feet as well as his arm because the percentage of times he will make a play to keep a drive alive is less reliant on supporting cast than QB's who can throw but not run.

In the end though, everything is related to dice rolls in some way. There may be something that helps determine when a QB scrambles other than his scrambling frequency bar, but I doubt the game takes into account down and distance for anything other than the play that is called.

Ben E Lou · 05-05-2014, 01:05 PM

There's no way for us to know that without an answer from Ann Arbor, which I would doubt would be forthcoming. That seems to fit in the "I don't like to talk about details of the engine" category.

My guess is that it's much simpler than what you're suggesting here--that there's an x% chance of a scramble on every passing play, and x is modified by the "scramble frequency" rating of the QB.

Hammer · 05-05-2014, 01:07 PM

That being the case, his yards won't be as important or meaningful as real life. He won't dip his head for that extra yard or two on third down as he won't know the significance of it. Similarly he will run when its not useful to do so.

Not saying a runner isn't good, but perhaps the FOF7 runner isn't as useful as an NFL one if what your saying is correct.

Julio Riddols · 05-05-2014, 01:16 PM

The one really good running QB I have experience with in FOF 7 has produced 6783 yards rushing in 9 seasons with 41 rushing touchdowns and a conversion rate of 59.3% on his 3rd down runs. He averages 7.44 yards per carry for his career. He is probably way more useful as a runner than about any NFL QB you could compare him to. It certainly helps he has also compiled a career rating of 96.6 as a passer, but his running ability augments his performances enough to give him a career record of 123-31 with no game planning involvement from me.

Hammer · 05-05-2014, 01:34 PM

I have been thinking, on the flip side the simplistic nature of the game may aid the running QB. Not more likely to be hurt. Not more likely to take the sacks/fumbles associated with mobile passers.

I notice in the NAFL there are only 5 or 6 starting QBs who have a scramble frequency over 70. I have one of them, so just trying to get my head around the implications. He avoid interceptions very well, senses the rush fairly well, but doesn't do a lot else well highlight by his 45/45.

Caligari · 05-05-2014, 06:42 PM

Seems to me that in my experience (in SP with a scrambling QB) that his runs get us over the line proportionally more often than my RBs do. I don't recall seeing the QB run and then just have another shot at getting to the first down - its usually 1st down or punt/over on downs. Other than red zone play. But I see the RBs take the ball and get just "some yards" a lot of the time.

I guess the real question is whether it seems that running QBs are wasting their attempts. And so far, in my experience, that doesn't seem to be that case. Which could be for all sorts of reasons in the code, but boils down to "QBs act as though they are running intelligently" from my perspective.

davehibb · 05-14-2014, 04:39 AM

Just a thought on this.

As counter intuitive as it might be, I guess to take advantage of a 'running QB' you need to have more passing in your GP for him to scramble?

And especially in those 3rd and short scenarios, in the hope he at least has the option to take off and move the chains with his legs?

But then, if he does throw you have all the negatives that come with that. Incompletions, sacks, picks, fumbles...

Hammer · 05-14-2014, 02:48 PM

What sort of ceiling are we seeing on season performances?

Ben mentioned MP QBs who came over in a conversion may not be as effective as QBs drafted in the new game. Thoughts?

Ben E Lou · 05-14-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer

What sort of ceiling are we seeing on season performances?

Ben mentioned MP QBs who came over in a conversion may not be as effective as QBs drafted in the new game. Thoughts?

This could be just a collective thing--that the new game generates a higher percentage of running QBs. The sample size is still relatively small, but of the converted leagues I'm in, 8 seasons combined have been played, and the max QB rushing yards in those has been 786--by a QB who was a FOF7 draftee, and 700 yards rushing has only been surpassed twice. I see higher numbers more frequently in SP.

Game plans could also be a factor, of course. But I'm just wondering if there are a higher percentage of QBs with good running ability in the new game, and that's why I see those types of numbers more frequently.

Hammer · 05-14-2014, 04:11 PM

So what is the most you have seen from the converted QBs?

Firefly · 05-16-2014, 09:19 AM

Hey, Nick!

My converted QB had a huge increase in ypc to 7.3, almost a yard higher than his previous season-high. But his scramble is only 46, so he doesn't do it that often. 373 yards in 14 games. The league leader at QB (converted) had 643 yards with a 7.5 average, half a yard ypc higher than his previous season-high.

Both seem awfully high to me, I sure hope new QBs don't top that by much.

Hammer · 05-16-2014, 03:47 PM

Hey buddy. Doesn't sound to me like there is much between the converted and new QBs, if anything at all. What was the 643 yards QB scramble frequency?

Firefly · 05-16-2014, 09:34 PM

80. Again, that would only affect the frequency of the runs, but the ypc depends on the hidden rushing bars. The 373 yards QB has pretty good rushing bars, even though he doesn't run often.

I don't see why new QBs couldn't have higher rushing and scramble bars than in the old game, but I wouldn't know.

05-05-2014, 12:53 PM	#2
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	QB's that run AND throw are a huge benefit to any team. Having a guy that can run for 800 yards while throwing for 4000 makes for a very hard to stop offense. QB's that can run and not throw well can still be useful if they do not turn the ball over. QBs that can throw but don't run are the same as they have always been, IMO. The main thing to find in a QB is one that fits the offense you want to run and avoids turnovers as much as possible. Everything they can bring in addition to that is gravy. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA Last edited by Julio Riddols : 05-05-2014 at 12:57 PM.

05-05-2014, 01:03 PM	#4
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	Well I doubt the game goes that much in depth when determining play results. I believe that it is better to have a QB who can get you yards with his feet as well as his arm because the percentage of times he will make a play to keep a drive alive is less reliant on supporting cast than QB's who can throw but not run. In the end though, everything is related to dice rolls in some way. There may be something that helps determine when a QB scrambles other than his scrambling frequency bar, but I doubt the game takes into account down and distance for anything other than the play that is called. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA Last edited by Julio Riddols : 05-05-2014 at 01:04 PM.

05-05-2014, 01:05 PM	#5
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	There's no way for us to know that without an answer from Ann Arbor, which I would doubt would be forthcoming. That seems to fit in the "I don't like to talk about details of the engine" category. My guess is that it's much simpler than what you're suggesting here--that there's an x% chance of a scramble on every passing play, and x is modified by the "scramble frequency" rating of the QB. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

05-05-2014, 01:16 PM	#7
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	The one really good running QB I have experience with in FOF 7 has produced 6783 yards rushing in 9 seasons with 41 rushing touchdowns and a conversion rate of 59.3% on his 3rd down runs. He averages 7.44 yards per carry for his career. He is probably way more useful as a runner than about any NFL QB you could compare him to. It certainly helps he has also compiled a career rating of 96.6 as a passer, but his running ability augments his performances enough to give him a career record of 123-31 with no game planning involvement from me. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA

05-05-2014, 12:58 PM	#3
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	What I am getting at is, does the running QB in FOF7 know where the chains are - like a real player. 700 yards is all well and good, but it makes a big difference if the QB has that intelligence. Running when it makes sense...

05-05-2014, 01:07 PM	#6
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	That being the case, his yards won't be as important or meaningful as real life. He won't dip his head for that extra yard or two on third down as he won't know the significance of it. Similarly he will run when its not useful to do so. Not saying a runner isn't good, but perhaps the FOF7 runner isn't as useful as an NFL one if what your saying is correct.

05-05-2014, 01:34 PM	#8
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	I have been thinking, on the flip side the simplistic nature of the game may aid the running QB. Not more likely to be hurt. Not more likely to take the sacks/fumbles associated with mobile passers. I notice in the NAFL there are only 5 or 6 starting QBs who have a scramble frequency over 70. I have one of them, so just trying to get my head around the implications. He avoid interceptions very well, senses the rush fairly well, but doesn't do a lot else well highlight by his 45/45.

05-05-2014, 06:42 PM	#9
Caligari Mascot Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Seems to me that in my experience (in SP with a scrambling QB) that his runs get us over the line proportionally more often than my RBs do. I don't recall seeing the QB run and then just have another shot at getting to the first down - its usually 1st down or punt/over on downs. Other than red zone play. But I see the RBs take the ball and get just "some yards" a lot of the time. I guess the real question is whether it seems that running QBs are wasting their attempts. And so far, in my experience, that doesn't seem to be that case. Which could be for all sorts of reasons in the code, but boils down to "QBs act as though they are running intelligently" from my perspective.

05-14-2014, 04:39 AM	#10
davehibb n00b Join Date: May 2009 Location: England	Just a thought on this. As counter intuitive as it might be, I guess to take advantage of a 'running QB' you need to have more passing in your GP for him to scramble? And especially in those 3rd and short scenarios, in the hope he at least has the option to take off and move the chains with his legs? But then, if he does throw you have all the negatives that come with that. Incompletions, sacks, picks, fumbles...

05-14-2014, 02:48 PM	#11
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	What sort of ceiling are we seeing on season performances? Ben mentioned MP QBs who came over in a conversion may not be as effective as QBs drafted in the new game. Thoughts?

05-14-2014, 04:11 PM	#13
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	So what is the most you have seen from the converted QBs?

05-16-2014, 09:19 AM	#14
Firefly High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2007	Hey, Nick! My converted QB had a huge increase in ypc to 7.3, almost a yard higher than his previous season-high. But his scramble is only 46, so he doesn't do it that often. 373 yards in 14 games. The league leader at QB (converted) had 643 yards with a 7.5 average, half a yard ypc higher than his previous season-high. Both seem awfully high to me, I sure hope new QBs don't top that by much.

05-16-2014, 03:47 PM	#15
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	Hey buddy. Doesn't sound to me like there is much between the converted and new QBs, if anything at all. What was the 643 yards QB scramble frequency?

05-16-2014, 09:34 PM	#16
Firefly High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2007	80. Again, that would only affect the frequency of the runs, but the ypc depends on the hidden rushing bars. The 373 yards QB has pretty good rushing bars, even though he doesn't run often. I don't see why new QBs couldn't have higher rushing and scramble bars than in the old game, but I wouldn't know.

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