Some defensive sorting looks goofy on the surface, but I don't think it's a bug.

Ben E Lou · 12-03-2016, 05:14 AM

Mr. 48/48 is a 290-pounder, and I'm playing 4-3 Over. 37/37 guy is 268. Salvador Parker, further down the list and also, "out of order" is 263. Jon Bradley, right under him, is 262. It sure looks like this sort is an attempt to be literally "Current Value [to my team]" and not merely "Current Rating." I think I like that.

Hammer · 12-03-2016, 05:44 AM

Yeah I like this. Still have a problem with a DC dictating the front. Fair enough he has a front that enables a bonus, but to flat out not be able to run a front doesn't work for me. A DC should be able to adapt his skills, at least somewhat. In MP shit hits the fan on switch over presumably.

SlyBelle1 · 12-03-2016, 05:45 AM

Ben, doesn't the note at the very bottom of the screen indicate the actual sorting is based on how well the player fits the position group vs scouting grades? So I do think it is correct.

Ben E Lou · 12-03-2016, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Ben, doesn't the note at the very bottom of the screen indicate the actual sorting is based on how well the player fits the position group vs scouting grades? So I do think it is correct.

READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!

Heh, nice catch. Yeah, I've read the Help File through 2 or 3 times now, but sometimes he changes the on-screen bits. The Help file doesn't mention this that I've noticed.

Ben E Lou · 12-03-2016, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer

In MP shit hits the fan on switch over presumably.

Why's that?

Hammer · 12-03-2016, 06:06 AM

I am thinking our DCs will end up with a random front label on them, which could throw our staff plans out the window as we are geared to a specific front. Staff draft lottery to follow.

SlyBelle1 · 12-03-2016, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!

Heh, nice catch. Yeah, I've read the Help File through 2 or 3 times now, but sometimes he changes the on-screen bits. The Help file doesn't mention this that I've noticed.

No problem....this is one change I noticed early on which I really liked, but initially I was scratching my head as to why not sorted by value until I happened to notice the text. But I really like how it works.

I am sure there are still small improvement nuggets we haven't discovered yet

Ben E Lou · 12-03-2016, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer

I am thinking our DCs will end up with a random front label on them, which could throw our staff plans out the window as we are geared to a specific front. Staff draft lottery to follow.

No idea on the front label. I suppose he could look at their current teams and make a determination if he deemed that important. That said, given how most of us pretty much ignore weight right now, even if you could hand-pick your coordinators' styles, it would be blind luck for a team to be a good match for any of the systems. It happened that IHOF finished its last FOF7 season this week, so I suppose we'll be one of the first leagues converted. I ran a 3-4 and had the #2 defense in the league last year, but my NT weighs 304, both DEs are under 275, and three of my LBs are in the 230s. If I believe system fits matter significantly, I've got to make significant changes anyway, and I'm quite sure just about everyone does.

Hammer · 12-03-2016, 08:00 AM

I don't think we should take it for granted that height or weight matter to much extent. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Jim has always said height matters most for QBs, but it never really scratched the paint work in my opinion. Who is to say these stats still won't get lost in a bigger equation. But yeah, it all adds up to a lot of stuff to consider on rollover.

Squirrel · 12-03-2016, 08:37 AM

Well in my SP play the weight appears to matter big time, particularly in the front 7 on D.

One other thing I'm interested to see in MP changeover is the yearly updated combines on vets. Plenty of really good players in 39-drafted FOF 7 leagues with bad combines

Ben E Lou · 12-03-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrel

Well in my SP play the weight appears to matter big time, particularly in the front 7 on D.

I can't imagine that he put all that work into a major rewrite and then left it that weight doesn't matter much.

Quote:

One other thing I'm interested to see in MP changeover is the yearly updated combines on vets. Plenty of really good players in 39-drafted FOF 7 leagues with bad combines

It's clear that combines are generated based on ratings, not vice versa. Unless that mechanism has changed, I expect veterans' combines to look nothing like their rookie numbers in these cases.

QuikSand · 12-03-2016, 01:06 PM

Another related thing (maybe just a nuance here)... when doing position-specific searches along the D7, if you search for, say, "3-technique DT" you are going to be shown DT with different preferred roles (not just 3-tech guys) but the will be sorted in the same way we see above -- by a blend of overall scouted rating and their ability to play in that particular role.

I like this a lot, too.

crusher78 · 12-03-2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Ben, doesn't the note at the very bottom of the screen indicate the actual sorting is based on how well the player fits the position group vs scouting grades? So I do think it is correct.

So the way I read that, Mr. 48/48 is rated a 48 by your scouts, but should ideally switch positions to reach that grade. If he's ranked with his peers at his current position, he's at or below a 37 grade.

MIJB#19 · 12-03-2016, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!

Heh, nice catch. Yeah, I've read the Help File through 2 or 3 times now, but sometimes he changes the on-screen bits. The Help file doesn't mention this that I've noticed.

And I kept wondering why this wasn't fixed in the patch.

Sidhe · 12-03-2016, 05:59 PM

There are still some funky things going on with the defensive line in particular. I don't mean in the sorting necessarily. I understand how that's meant to work, but I think there's still something wrong.

If you are running a 43Under, your 3Tech should be the RDT. If you run the 43Over, your 3Tech should be the LDT. But for my present SP game where I"m using the 43Over, REX seems to act as if it expects the DTs to be arranged as it is in the 43Under. It will even sometimes switch the positions of my DTs to what they would be in a 43U.

So you may notice when you are sorting for 3Techs for your 43O you will still get a lot of 1Techs high on the list that don't appear to be a better fit for that position than the 3Techs it passed over would be.

There's another issue with the defensive line that goes back to FOF7 at least. The game will tell you that your RDE should be your best pass-rushing lineman, but if you don't watch it, it will almost always make your best lineman the LDE during training camp. They get a lot of sacks over there anyway so I had given up fighting with it. But now, with the 43O calling for such a light RDE, it really feels strange for REX to switch that guy over to the LDE and then he still do well over there. I don't think that's exactly what's intended. It goes against what the FAQ appears to be saying.

(Never mind that you really can't find many true RDEs that are light enough for the 43O anyway..)

I had a post with pictures but it seemed too long and unnecessary. Let me know if I've not made clear enough sense.

AlexB · 12-04-2016, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crusher78

So the way I read that, Mr. 48/48 is rated a 48 by your scouts, but should ideally switch positions to reach that grade. If he's ranked with his peers at his current position, he's at or below a 37 grade.

I read it another way. The scouts see 48/48 as a 48 MLB, but see 37/37 WLB Doyle as better than 48/48 if he were to switch/be played at MLB

SlyBelle1 · 12-04-2016, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

I read it another way. The scouts see 48/48 as a 48 MLB, but see 37/37 WLB Doyle as better than 48/48 if he were to switch/be played at MLB

Kind of what I was thinking...

12-03-2016, 05:45 AM	#3
SlyBelle1 High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2005	Ben, doesn't the note at the very bottom of the screen indicate the actual sorting is based on how well the player fits the position group vs scouting grades? So I do think it is correct. Last edited by SlyBelle1 : 12-03-2016 at 05:45 AM.

12-03-2016, 08:37 AM	#10
Squirrel Mascot Join Date: Jul 2016	Well in my SP play the weight appears to matter big time, particularly in the front 7 on D. One other thing I'm interested to see in MP changeover is the yearly updated combines on vets. Plenty of really good players in 39-drafted FOF 7 leagues with bad combines Last edited by Squirrel : 12-03-2016 at 08:38 AM.

12-03-2016, 05:44 AM	#2
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	Yeah I like this. Still have a problem with a DC dictating the front. Fair enough he has a front that enables a bonus, but to flat out not be able to run a front doesn't work for me. A DC should be able to adapt his skills, at least somewhat. In MP shit hits the fan on switch over presumably.

12-03-2016, 06:06 AM	#6
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	I am thinking our DCs will end up with a random front label on them, which could throw our staff plans out the window as we are geared to a specific front. Staff draft lottery to follow.

12-03-2016, 08:00 AM	#9
Hammer College Prospect Join Date: Sep 2005	I don't think we should take it for granted that height or weight matter to much extent. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Jim has always said height matters most for QBs, but it never really scratched the paint work in my opinion. Who is to say these stats still won't get lost in a bigger equation. But yeah, it all adds up to a lot of stuff to consider on rollover.

12-03-2016, 01:06 PM	#12
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Another related thing (maybe just a nuance here)... when doing position-specific searches along the D7, if you search for, say, "3-technique DT" you are going to be shown DT with different preferred roles (not just 3-tech guys) but the will be sorted in the same way we see above -- by a blend of overall scouted rating and their ability to play in that particular role. I like this a lot, too.

12-03-2016, 05:59 PM	#15
Sidhe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NOVA USA	There are still some funky things going on with the defensive line in particular. I don't mean in the sorting necessarily. I understand how that's meant to work, but I think there's still something wrong. If you are running a 43Under, your 3Tech should be the RDT. If you run the 43Over, your 3Tech should be the LDT. But for my present SP game where I"m using the 43Over, REX seems to act as if it expects the DTs to be arranged as it is in the 43Under. It will even sometimes switch the positions of my DTs to what they would be in a 43U. So you may notice when you are sorting for 3Techs for your 43O you will still get a lot of 1Techs high on the list that don't appear to be a better fit for that position than the 3Techs it passed over would be. There's another issue with the defensive line that goes back to FOF7 at least. The game will tell you that your RDE should be your best pass-rushing lineman, but if you don't watch it, it will almost always make your best lineman the LDE during training camp. They get a lot of sacks over there anyway so I had given up fighting with it. But now, with the 43O calling for such a light RDE, it really feels strange for REX to switch that guy over to the LDE and then he still do well over there. I don't think that's exactly what's intended. It goes against what the FAQ appears to be saying. (Never mind that you really can't find many true RDEs that are light enough for the 43O anyway..) I had a post with pictures but it seemed too long and unnecessary. Let me know if I've not made clear enough sense.

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