Re-Gronkulous Season

[chinaski]

I've really like the love TE's are getting this version, so I tried to make a scrambling QB plan, that focuses on the TE.

[chinaski]

This is the QB...

[Ben E Lou]

What were the QB's rushing numbers?

[AlexB]

If this was Wolverine's game, or Daivd's game, this board would crucify an AI that would allow a TE to achieve double the RL TE record receiving yardage...

[chinaski]

Not the same sim, but the numbers were very similar. 10 fumbles. Highest ive seen from the QB was 870~ yards, with a 7.9ypc.

[chinaski]

Season results have been anywhere from 7-9 to 15-1. Almost always over 10 wins tho and the playoffs. Thats around a 30 sim window.

[chinaski]

Highest ive seen in the repeat sims is 2690 yards with 22 TD's.

[rush_27]

Don't we want to see realism in this game? Now and again, you can get a RB to rush around 2500 yards and a WR gaining over 2000 yards but a TE getting this many yards is completely unrealistic. My impressions so far are that they are too overpowered. Need to bring it down a notch or two

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by rush_27

Don't we want to see realism in this game? Now and again, you can get a RB to rush around 2500 yards and a WR gaining over 2000 yards but a TE getting this many yards is completely unrealistic. My impressions so far are that they are too overpowered. Need to bring it down a notch or two

Most definitely.

[Hammer]

I agree. But credit where it is due, must of been a nicely crafted gameplan to keep him up at 9.93 ypt with that QB and massive yardage totals. Rex can only look on in admiration.

Probably needs familiarity looking at. Hopefully QB rushing will get a nudge up also.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by AlexB

If this was Wolverine's game, or Daivd's game, this board would crucify an AI that would allow a TE to achieve double the RL TE record receiving yardage...

Yup, and if it was an AI game plan, it should be that way, but it wasn't. Any human can choose to target someone 260 times. The question is will it be optimal. My expire be so far is "no." I have been tolling around me with a monster talented team. I can go (most years) roughly 8-8 to 12-4 with them if I choose to try to get the "best WR 250-300 targets. I have even gotten him close to 3000 yards in one run. However, if I run it a bunch of if times with a more balanced game plan (either mine or the AI's,) it is far more consistently in the 12-16 win range, but with lower numbers. Now, an argument can be made that it should be 5 to 9 wins instead of 8 to 12 when I do that, but determine how sub-optimal it should be is somewhat guesswork, because I am doing something that no NFL team has ever done.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Though I did just think of something that Jim may not have. Trying it out now.

[Hammer]

If he is hitting 9.93 YPT that has to be close to optimal. At the very least a viable option that is coming into MP leagues shortly.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Hammer

If he is hitting 9.93 YPT that has to be close to optimal. At the very least a viable option that is coming into MP leagues shortly.

Viable option, sure. Optimal, not so sure. With a guy with those bars, I'm shooting for 'leb'm.

[Hammer]

I wonder if familiars are linked into secondary routes. Could you stick the TE as secondary every time and cheat the system. Or any other stud player for that matter.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I wonder if familiars are linked into secondary routes. Could you stick the TE as secondary every time and cheat the system. Or any other stud player for that matter.

I haven't had any poor RR players starting at WR or TE, but my experience so far is that it doesn't appear that the secondary receiver gets the ball all that much. That said, maybe if you have a primary receiver with lower RR, the secondary one becomes a bigger factor.

[Hammer]

It was just a thought. Get 1400 the old fashioned way and 1200 on the cheap or cheat, as familiars are not being tested. If you whacked the TE in as the only secondary guy could be doable. Secondary routes could well be being tested for familiarity but it is well worth an inspection. Something has obviously changed and now we can control secondary receivers, that could be responsible.

[QuikSand]

I don't like seeing this. If I'm playing this team in MP FOF, and he targets the stud TE 15+ times a ganme... what is my recourse? Can I double the tight end? What formation(s) let me respond to that?

I feel like we are left to count on the "familiars" here, but if ten minutes with a gameplan lets me seed in 12 different TE-target plays and avoid them... I don't like that. We're only a few weeks into this game, too. It only gets worse from here, right?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Can I double the tight end?

Does "double best" not include the TE? (I have no idea.) If it doesn't already, that seems like it wouldn't be a difficult thing to add.

[Dawgfan19]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't like seeing this. If I'm playing this team in MP FOF, and he targets the stud TE 15+ times a ganme... what is my recourse? Can I double the tight end? What formation(s) let me respond to that?

I feel like we are left to count on the "familiars" here, but if ten minutes with a gameplan lets me seed in 12 different TE-target plays and avoid them... I don't like that. We're only a few weeks into this game, too. It only gets worse from here, right?

When the game was initially released, Ben posted this section of a game log. Note the SS is doubling the TE. A guess, but perhaps a nickel, press-1 coverage influences that???? Or it could be that "Double Best" includes the TE.

1-10-WAS12 (4Q: 01:03) Harrison Iacuessa pass completed to WR Chris Hillhouse for 12 yards and a TOUCHDOWN! Hillhouse gained 2 yards after the catch. The quarterback threw away from the double coverage. Washington 13, Dallas 13

OFFENSE 113t Personnel, Weak formation, Pistol DEFENSE 34 Eagle, Nickel Personnel, Press-1
QB H.Iacuessa
*** LDE L.Shull Rush Passer +++
X(SE) L.Bush Secondary, F Flat (0-4) +++ NT B.Mathis Rush Passer +++
TE C.Bensen Outlet, 3 Comeback (9-12) +++ RDE K.Marquis Rush Passer +++
Z(FL) C.Hillhouse Primary, 3 Comeback (9-12) +++ SLB T.Rhodes Short Zone +++
RB G.Stewart Outlet, W Wheel (9-18) +++ SILB E.Montgomery Short Zone ---
SLOT R.Spearman Outlet, 1 Out (5-8) +++ WLB K.Banks Short Zone ---
LT D.Stehlik
+++ LCB K.Riordan Bump and Run +++
LG K.Sawyer
+++ RCB E.Munoz Bump and Run +++
C E.Hardman
+++ NB P.Henry Bump and Run +++
RG S.Rector
+++ SS C.Lyle Double TE +++
RT R.Morrison
+++ FS J.Leake Deep Zone +++
(4Q: 01:03) Extra point by Jordan Osorio was good. Dallas 14, Washington 13

[Ben E Lou]

Ah, thanks for the info, Dawgfan19.

We do have someone over-targeting the TE in the CCFL, but his results are more along the lines of what we'd probably want to see if someone did this:

TE Giovanni Sims Player Details

[MalcPow]

For what it's worth, you do throw more interceptions when you go monster target-heavy on one guy. Using his YPT as a proxy for the effectiveness of the overall plan is going to miss that part of it. I'm pretty comfortably convinced from my play that your best team performance is not going to come from one of these extremely skewed plans, but there's no question you can do something like this without completely destroying your team either. I'd venture this 260 target range is probably getting close to the edge where you might see some bigger shifts in team performance.

[Ned Doolittle]

One thing that disappoints me is when you think about it a 52 rated QB with average stats is putting good numbers like that. I've seen it in my league - little difference between the best QB I've ever played with not named Dean Houston (Darius Neal) was a 6 time MVP (it really was impressive). After he retired I spent a few years with some replacement level QBs who I was able to go to the playoffs with and have put up impressive numbers. Even with RBs I spent a looong time with 40ish rated RBs year after year (the Denver Broncos model) who also put up great stats, one got me 18 rushing TDs once. It was such a viable strategy, getting great stats out of undrafted RBs that I wasn't compelled to draft too RBs or spend on free agency.

I'd like to see things retooled so that there's a clear difference in stats between a 50ish rated player and like a high 70s rated player. Even 6 time MVP Darius Miles - he was rated 76 for many years and his only "elite" ratings where accuracy and 3rd down passing with high 2 minute offense. Everything else was meh or worse (I think he even had a zero for timing or sense rush).

[Sef0r]

And then there is this TE in the CCFL who has slightly less targets but 300 more YAC.

Yes - that is my team in the CCFL

Didn't intentionally go after my TE as my 2 WRs also both currently top 150 targets each with 1 more game to go.