Ben Roethlisberger, serial rapist?

[GrantDawg]

Roethlisberger accused of sexual assault in Milledgeville *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/roethlisberger-accused-of-sexual-350716.html)


So, number two? May end up being nothing, but damn.

[bhlloy]

WTF... Even some of the most notorious NFL offenders have gone an entire career without managing to be accused of sexual assault, let alone twice. At the very least it seems like Big Ben could improve the quality of ladies he's spending time with and at worst... this could be a very interesting first test of Goodell's personal conduct policy. Does he have the balls to drop the hammer on one of the league's stars if this does turn into anything criminal?

[Comey]

Does anyone find it interesting that the woman described her attacker as "six-foot-five, 241 pounds"?

That's...awfully descriptive.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Does anyone find it interesting that the woman described her attacker as "six-foot-five, 241 pounds"?

That's...awfully descriptive.

That is a big part of the story here, because the incident report does not specifically name him...but matches to how he's listed on the roster.

Maybe she's a Steelers fan with a Rainman like memory?

[miked]

Having been to Milledgeville...yuck.

[Galaxy]

That is a big part of the story here, because the incident report does not specifically name him...but matches to how he's listed on the roster.

Maybe she's a Steelers fan with a Rainman like memory?

I like the first accuser:

"Although no criminal charges were filed, the woman, Andrea McNulty, filed a civil suit against Roethlisberger to compel him to make a public admission and give her an apology and $100,000."

What happen with the first case? Wasn't the accuser being bagged on by other witnesses?

[Balldog]

There were rumors when he was in high school that he and two of his buddies raped/sexually assaulted a girl at a part.

[GrantDawg]

I like the first accuser:

"Although no criminal charges were filed, the woman, Andrea McNulty, filed a civil suit against Roethlisberger to compel him to make a public admission and give her an apology and $100,000."

What happen with the first case? Wasn't the accuser being bagged on by other witnesses?


The first accuser really didn't have much of a case, but with this one it starts looking like smoke/fire. It may not be more than he doesn't have the sense to not put himself in questionable situations. Yet this one looks a little more of a problem. She didn't wait a year, or even an hour it seems, before contacting police and being taken to a hospital. The "rape kit" report is going to be what determines how far this goes.

BTW, the reason he was in Millegdeville is because he owns a house on Lake Occonee not far from there. It is a college town, and the Capital City is a student bar/hang-out.

[GrantDawg]

NVM about the rape kit. It sounds lke might not of raped her, more groped her. The fishy thing so far is that she supposedly was bar-hopping with him most of the night, but then couldn't give police a name. Really? The actual police report will be interesting to read. I would guess the claim is he followed her in the bathroom and thought she would be willing to have sex with him. She refused, but still tried to "persuade" her by feeling her up.

[Danny]

Where there is smoke, there's usually fire. I'm not saying Big Ben is a rapist, but as much as I like him as a football player, at the least he seems to make real questionable decisions off the field.

[Suburban Rhythm]

NVM about the rape kit. It sounds lke might not of raped her, more groped her. The fishy thing so far is that she supposedly was bar-hopping with him most of the night, but then couldn't give police a name. Really? The actual police report will be interesting to read. I would guess the claim is he followed her in the bathroom and thought she would be willing to have sex with him. She refused, but still tried to "persuade" her by feeling her up.

So I guess he tried to keep the play going, and ended up holding on too long again?

Too soon?

[Ryan S]

Where there is smoke, there's usually fire.

I disagree. In the UK there have been so many cases against top soccer players that have been thrown out of court I am instantly sceptical of any claim against a prominent public figure.

[Young Drachma]

I disagree. In the UK there have been so many cases against top soccer players that have been thrown out of court I am instantly sceptical of any claim against a prominent public figure.

Well this is Amerry-ca buddy and here in these States, we don't go by them thar rooles.

Here, accusation = guilty. Got it?

[DeToxRox]

I am sure Ben is innocent here but he is guilty of one thing: putting himself in positions for this to happen. What point is there in being in Random, USA partying with a bunch of college kids? You make a 100 mil and are the face of the one of the most historic franchises in any sport, and you put yourself out there like this?

There is a reason you don't hear shit like this with Manning or Brady, they don't allow themselves to be in such a position.

Ben needs to grow up.

[Danny]

I disagree. In the UK there have been so many cases against top soccer players that have been thrown out of court I am instantly sceptical of any claim against a prominent public figure.

Have to take that comment with the rest of my post. I am not saying the fire is him being a rapist, but him putting himself in questionable positions and making questionable choices.

[NewIdentity]

Ben needs to grow up.
QFT

The only question I have with the girl in question being 20 years old; Is she underage for the Bar, or was Ben hanging out at one of those underage 18+ kiddie clubs?

It has been reported that the incident occurred at a Night Club, so I am guessing it is a Bar and not a restaurant.

[CU Tiger]

QFT

The only question I have with the girl in question being 20 years old; Is she underage for the Bar, or was Ben hanging out at one of those underage 18+ kiddie clubs?

It has been reported that the incident occurred at a Night Club, so I am guessing it is a Bar and not a restaurant.


Its a college bar, everything would 18+ to get in 21+ to drink

[JonInMiddleGA]

Although I had forgotten that myself (sorry, it had been a while since I heard that place mentioned), I think CU is right about the 18/21 thing. Or so says a couple of "club reviews" websites I found with a little Googling.

Here's a link to the club btw, predominantly a country bar.
Capital City - Milledgeville GA (http://www.capitalcityga.com/aboutus.html)

[Dr. Sak]

Everytime I see the title of this thread I think of the one line in Step Brothers where John C Reily goes "I am so not a raper"

[NewIdentity]

Its a college bar, everything would 18+ to get in 21+ to drink
So, it is one of those places that allows High Schoolers in. I guess this means he didn't break any laws getting her into the club then. And, Hopefully she wasn't drinking.

BTW. Any truth to the Rumors that this occured in a Bathroom inside the Club?

[hhiipp]

Maybe it was like at the Zoo where they have a 'family' restroom.

[chesapeake]

I disagree. In the UK there have been so many cases against top soccer players that have been thrown out of court I am instantly sceptical of any claim against a prominent public figure.

I wouldn't use the UK as a benchmark in anything related to violence against women. Even the Home Office admitted as recently as 2007 that fewer than 6% of the paltry number of rape cases that get reported ever result in a conviction. This number was so pathetic that it even made news here in the US.

[SteveMax58]

I am sure Ben is innocent here but he is guilty of one thing: putting himself in positions for this to happen. What point is there in being in Random, USA partying with a bunch of college kids? You make a 100 mil and are the face of the one of the most historic franchises in any sport, and you put yourself out there like this?

There is a reason you don't hear shit like this with Manning or Brady, they don't allow themselves to be in such a position.

Ben needs to grow up.

Yeah, this.

He may not be a rapist, he may not even be a groper...but he is guilty of being the "old guy" at the college party. Something that franchise QB's that make his kind of money should not be aspiring to in their social lives.

Not that it doesnt happen (and all other caveats needed to not sound like an insensitive ass)...but I can recall the "r" word being thrown around pretty carelessly by some girls for varying reasons (embarrassment, pregnancy, ignorance, attention, etc.).

Just strikes me as a situation that Ben should already be wary of and not end up in. Maybe he should be looking for 25+ yr olds who don't frequent college bars.

[flere-imsaho]

I am sure Ben is innocent here but he is guilty of one thing: putting himself in positions for this to happen.

:withstupid:

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well Ben ain't going with the legal system backups.

Attorney Ed Garland to represent Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/attorney-ed-garland-to-355166.html)

Veteran Atlanta defense lawyer Ed Garland confirmed Monday that he is representing Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger on allegations that he sexually assaulted a Georgia College & State University student. ... In 2000, Garland represented Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis, who was charged with murder in a Buckhead street fight after a night of post-Super Bowl celebrating. In mid-trial, on June 5, 2000, Fulton County prosecutors dropped the murder charges against Lewis, allowing him to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge.

Four years later, Garland represented another Baltimore Raven, Atlanta native Jamal Lewis, who was facing federal drug charges. Jamal Lewis pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of using a cellphone to facilitate a drug transaction and was sentenced to a minimum-security prison for four months after the 2004 NFL season was over.

[MikeVic]

Well if he got Ray Lewis off murder, a rape accusation should be no big deal right?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

How is everyone sure Ben is innocent?

[MikeVic]

How is everyone sure Ben is innocent?

I'm not, but I choose to side with Ben. :)

[Samdari]

Any truth to the Rumors that this occured in a Bathroom inside the Club?

There are no rumors of anywhere else being a crime scene, so the obvious conclusion is that it happened at the club - whatever "it" is.

It sounds lke might not of raped her, more groped her.

That's how the reporting reads to me on this. Yet, the same articles also reference waiting for lab reports. Why?

[Galaril]

How is everyone sure Ben is innocent?

Totally agree. I have a young 6 year old daughter and from what is being reported on ESPN radio about this it is pissing me off if really true.

The police that handled the girl when she came in said she was hysterical and she did not look like a person "who was making it up". Also, they said that "evidence" was collected from the bar where there were numerous video cameras. Also the girl was only 20 and a college kid not that some girls are not cleaters but there is no excuse for whatever Ben did if any of it is true.
I agree no one is guilty or should be until proven in a court but it sure isn't looking good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah, this.

He may not be a rapist, he may not even be a groper...but he is guilty of being the "old guy" at the college party. Something that franchise QB's that make his kind of money should not be aspiring to in their social lives.

Not that it doesnt happen (and all other caveats needed to not sound like an insensitive ass)...but I can recall the "r" word being thrown around pretty carelessly by some girls for varying reasons (embarrassment, pregnancy, ignorance, attention, etc.).

Just strikes me as a situation that Ben should already be wary of and not end up in. Maybe he should be looking for 25+ yr olds who don't frequent college bars.


He should clearly go on Millionaire Matchmaker. Or at least talk to Tiger Woods and get tips from him.

[SteveMax58]

He should clearly go on Millionaire Matchmaker. Or at least talk to Tiger Woods and get tips from him.

Exactly. At least they are upfront about being gold diggers there.

[SteveMax58]

How is everyone sure Ben is innocent?

I'm not certain, personally. Just certain that, if he is innocent, that he would be innocent and NOT accused of rape had he avoided playing "big man on campus".

[DaddyTorgo]

Exactly. At least they are upfront about being gold diggers there.

I find that show kinda hilarious to be honest. The guys (no matter how old/ugly) all want these hot 25 year-old blonde southern california girls and the girls all want "true love" (by which they mean "a sugar daddy"). And the whole thing is just like...so clear, and yet they all try to deny it. The matchmaker-lady is all "oh no...i want these girls to find true love...blah blah blah" when in reality all that the vast majority of the girls care about is "how much stuff can he buy me?" and everything else is farrrrrr behind that.

It's amusing.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'm probably just reading into it, but a lot of people quoted a post that started with "I am sure Ben is innocent" and +1'd it. Other people talking about how needs to grow up, or start being smarter.

Maybe he needs to stop being a rapey asshole?

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm probably just reading into it, but a lot of people quoted a post that started with "I am sure Ben is innocent" and +1'd it. Other people talking about how needs to grow up, or start being smarter.

Maybe he needs to stop being a rapey asshole?

Seriously.


As a pro athlete idk how you put yourself into a situation in this country today where such a thing could even potentially be construed as happening.

[Dr. Sak]

Seriously.


As a pro athlete idk how you put yourself into a situation in this country today where such a thing could even potentially be construed as happening.

Ben was never the sharpest tool in the tool shed.

[Rizon]

Seriously.


As a pro athlete idk how you put yourself into a situation in this country today where such a thing could even potentially be construed as happening.

I always thought these guys had handlers that would say "dude, maybe that isn't the best idea" or "Hey, don't go in that teenie bar, maybe let's order in a salad".

[DaddyTorgo]

I always thought these guys had handlers that would say "dude, maybe that isn't the best idea" or "Hey, don't go in that teenie bar, maybe let's order in a salad".

That's what I thought too. If not...how do I go about starting a business to be that person?

"Hi...I'll keep you from making stupid decisions like DUI or raping that girl, or gambling away money that you can't afford to gamble away." It's like being a 24-7 personal assistant, but one who's not afraid to speak up.

And seriously...if Ben R. wants some hot lil college girls to slurp on his knob...I'm sure some handler could go out there and find WILLING girls for him, get them to sign a statement of willingness and non-disclosure, and then bring them to his house. Jeezus man...think for a minute! It's like that Chris Rock skit with the "sex contract." Gotta protect yourself!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I always thought these guys had handlers that would say "dude, maybe that isn't the best idea" or "Hey, don't go in that teenie bar, maybe let's order in a salad".

Actually he had several bodyguards (for lack of a better description) with him according to several people interviewed that were in the bar as well as other locations he visited earlier in the night.

[Rizon]

That's what I thought too. If not...how do I go about starting a business to be that person?

"Hi...I'll keep you from making stupid decisions like DUI or raping that girl, or gambling away money that you can't afford to gamble away." It's like being a 24-7 personal assistant, but one who's not afraid to speak up.

And seriously...if Ben R. wants some hot lil college girls to slurp on his knob...I'm sure some handler could go out there and find WILLING girls for him, get them to sign a statement of willingness and non-disclosure, and then bring them to his house. Jeezus man...think for a minute! It's like that Chris Rock skit with the "sex contract." Gotta protect yourself!!

Exactly. And on top of that, some SMOKIN HOT 18 year old ass.

We really need to start up this business. We'd be so fucking rich. Then again, we'd need our own handlers, too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Of the various quotes from the different articles, this is the one that stuck out to me

Amber Hanley, a 21-year-old college student, said she and a few friends were also in the VIP area with Roethlisberger. She said she asked the quarterback to take a photo with her friend, whose boyfriend was a fan, but he seemed disappointed that's all she wanted. Hanley said she rolled her eyes, and Roethlisberger called her an expletive and walked away. Later, Roethlisberger was aggressively hitting on another girl, Hanley said.

If that's accurate, does anyone really find it hard to believe that he did some unauthorized groping? And that's about all that's required for a charge of sexual battery in Georgia

16-6-22.1. Sexual battery.
(a) For the purposes of this Code section, the term "intimate parts"
means the primary genital area, anus, groin, inner thighs, or buttocks
of a male or female and the breasts of a female.
(b) A person commits the offense of sexual battery when he
intentionally makes physical contact with the intimate parts of the body
of another person without the consent of that person.
(c) A person convicted of the offense of sexual battery shall be
punished as for a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.


Oh, and that "high and aggravated nature" part
17-10-4. Punishment for misdemeanors of a high and aggravated nature.
A person who is convicted of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated
nature shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $5,000.00 or by
confinement in the county or other jail, county correctional
institution, or such other places as counties may provide for
maintenance of county inmates, for a term not to exceed 12 months, or
both. In all cases of a conviction of a misdemeanor of a high and
aggravated nature, the sentencing court shall retain jurisdiction to
amend, modify, alter, suspend, or probate sentences imposed under this
Code section at any time; but in no instance shall a sentence under this
Code section be modified in such a manner as to place a county inmate
under the jurisdiction of the Board of Corrections.
Notwithstanding any laws to the contrary, a person sentenced for a
misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature shall be entitled to only
four days per month earned time allowance.

[Rizon]

Actually he had several bodyguards (for lack of a better description) with him according to several people interviewed that were in the bar as well as other locations he visited earlier in the night.

These guys should be fired and Ben should hire the firm of Rizon and DaddyTorgo. "We Know How to Get The Knob That Won't Rob".

[DaddyTorgo]

Exactly. And on top of that, some SMOKIN HOT 18 year old ass.

We really need to start up this business. We'd be so fucking rich. Then again, we'd need our own handlers, too.

Seriously - I'm down with that. I think the beauty of the business lies in the fact that we'd just do the background checking and the training for the essentially independent contractors that we placed with the various athletes...then we collect a % of their salaries. Rather than being the actual handler-guys ourselves.

It really is an interesting idea...

[DaddyTorgo]

These guys should be fired and Ben should hire the firm of Rizon and DaddyTorgo. "We Know How to Get The Knob That Won't Rob".

LOL

Seriously...it's an interesting idea. Not sure how we'd go about setting it up...but willing to discuss the idea. I mean there's bodyguards sure...and there's personal assistants yeah...but how about a personal assistant that is looking out for your overall well-being rather than just getting you lattes in the morning and driving your one-night-stand home (although of course our guys would do that too).

[JediKooter]

How do you think he got his nick name of "Big Ben"? He don't need to rape anybody...

[MikeVic]

So groping could just mean he grabbed her ass or something?

[Galaril]

So groping could just mean he grabbed her ass or something?

Whatever it is I know no father would want someone doing it to his daughter.

[Logan]

Exactly. And on top of that, some SMOKIN HOT 18 year old ass.

We really need to start up this business. We'd be so fucking rich. Then again, we'd need our own handlers, too.

These millionaires aren't even smart enough sometimes to spend $20 on a cab ride when they've had any alcohol. That's way too much forward thinking you're asking them to do.

[MikeVic]

Whatever it is I know no father would want someone doing it to his daughter.

I'm not following the story closely, I just read all these rape things elsewhere and I'm wondering if he's just charged for groping, and what that could possibly mean.

[Logan]

So groping could just mean he grabbed her ass or something?

"Just"? I ask this seriously...is there another interpretation of what groping means up north?

[DeToxRox]

"Just"? I ask this seriously...is there another interpretation of what groping means up north?

I think in Canada it also is a term that describes what Maple Leaf defensemen usually do once a winger with speed comes through the neutral zone.

[Dr. Sak]

I think in Canada it also is a term that describes what Maple Leaf defensemen usually do once a winger with speed comes through the neutral zone.

Or what Crosby does to opposing players when they turn around.

[sterlingice]

These millionaires aren't even smart enough sometimes to spend $20 on a cab ride when they've had any alcohol. That's way too much forward thinking you're asking them to do.

Why'd you have to bring Patrick Kane into this?

SI

[Fidatelo]

"Just"? I ask this seriously...is there another interpretation of what groping means up north?

It's a grey-area up here because at least 50% of the time you are legitimately just trying to keep your hands warm.

[Samdari]

"Just"? I ask this seriously...is there another interpretation of what groping means up north?

No, but there is another interpretation of "sexual assualt" in most places.

If he grabbed her goodies without her say-so, he's dead wrong, but it falls a bit shy of rape.

Sort of like the difference between slapping someone in the face and shooting them in head.

[MikeVic]

No, but there is another interpretation of "sexual assualt" in most places.

If he grabbed her goodies without her say-so, he's dead wrong, but it falls a bit shy of rape.

Sort of like the difference between slapping someone in the face and shooting them in head.

Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean we should go around grabbing asses left and right but grabbing someone's ass in a club is different than raping someone. If the only allegation was that he groped her, I think it's being blown up a bit.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Hm. Touching someone sexually against their will IS different than rape, for sure, but I'm not sure they're as far away as you might be insinuating.

[Fidatelo]

I think the demarcation line is jizz. Once jizz is involved, shit just got real.

[JonInMiddleGA]

No, but there is another interpretation of "sexual assualt" in most places.

Basically the Georgia criminal code labels a variety of sexually related offenses under the heading "assault" whereas the charge(s) is more specific. The only "sexual assault" charge remaining on the books in Georgia involves acts by various professionals or persons in a supervisory capacity (doctors, jailers, etc).

From O.C.G.A. TITLE 16
(3) "Sexual assault" means rape, sodomy, aggravated sodomy, statutory rape, child molestation, aggravated child molestation, sexual assault against a person in custody, sexual assault against a person detained in a hospital or other institution, sexual assault by a practitioner of psychotherapy against a patient, incest, bestiality, sexual battery, and aggravated sexual battery as those terms and offenses are set forth and defined in Chapter 6 of Title 16.

[flere-imsaho]

I think the demarcation line is jizz. Once jizz is involved, shit just got real.

Words we can all live by, for sure.

[MikeVic]

Oh I didn't know jizz was involved. If it was, that's gross and way worse than an ass grab.

[Dr. Sak]

Oh I didn't know jizz was involved. If it was, that's gross and way worse than an ass grab.

Unless he "jizzed in his pants"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Unless he "jizzed in his pants"

'Course if those pants were on the ground at the time then we might have a hit record here ;)

[Fidatelo]

Oh I didn't know jizz was involved. If it was, that's gross and way worse than an ass grab.

I never said it was, I'm just sayin' that's the demarcation line between 'bad idea and you could use some counseling' and 'you should probably be castrated'.

[Samdari]

Hm. Touching someone sexually against their will IS different than rape, for sure, but I'm not sure they're as far away as you might be insinuating.


Punching someone in the face is a misdemeanor. Shooting them in the head is a felony. In fact, its the most violent crime one can commit.

According to Jon, groping someone is a misdemeanor. Rape is a felony, in fact, the worst sexually violent crime.

I feel pretty good about my comparison.

[AlexB]

I think in Canada it also is a term that describes what Maple Leaf defensemen usually do once a winger with speed comes through the neutral zone.

What's the neutral zone - between the tits and ass?

[MikeVic]

What's the neutral zone - between the tits and ass?

Grope her back all you want.

[Samdari]

Basically the Georgia criminal code labels a variety of sexually related offenses under the heading "assault" whereas the charge(s) is more specific. The only "sexual assault" charge remaining on the books in Georgia involves acts by various professionals or persons in a supervisory capacity (doctors, jailers, etc).

From O.C.G.A. TITLE 16

So, the media headlines screaming "Roethlesberger Sexual Assault" would be misleading?

Which is, basically, the point I was making in the first place.

I just think that the term "sexual assault" brings to the minds of most people a higher degree of sexual contact (you know, at least second base) and a little more force. See the thread title for an example.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, the media headlines screaming "Roethlesberger Sexual Assault" would be misleading?

Well no, not based on state law, which defines all of the variants as "sexual assault", as I quoted straight from the criminal code.

Anything from groping to, umm, a hell of a lot more than groping is technically sexual assault ... but the definition doesn't determine the actual criminal charge.

Now as for what I think, personally I don't believe that the distinction even crossed the mind of the vast majority (if any) news writer in the country. They're using "assault" almost euphemistically, in this instance that just happens to jibe with the legal definition of the term in the state.

edit to add: Back to your question about the headline, one that says "BR accused of sexually assaulting ..." would be technically accurate. One that said "BR charged with one count of sexual assault" would be completely inaccurate since there's no such charge in the state.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Punching someone in the face is a misdemeanor. Shooting them in the head is a felony. In fact, its the most violent crime one can commit.

According to Jon, groping someone is a misdemeanor. Rape is a felony, in fact, the worst sexually violent crime.

I feel pretty good about my comparison.

This is solely a matter of opinion. I think that unwanted sexual touching is a lot closer to rape than a punch is to murder, but to each their own.

[Galaril]

This is solely a matter of opinion. I think that unwanted sexual touching is a lot closer to rape than a punch is to murder, but to each their own.

I totally agree. I think it is easier for guys like here to brush off this type of thing as not serious. But, as far as a 20 year old girl in a bathroom it might of been disturbing or as some reports suggest terrifying to this young woman. I would never dare try to understand how a woman would feel in these situation since as a man I just don't have the capacity to grasp it really like with giving birth or PMs.

[MikeVic]

This is solely a matter of opinion. I think that unwanted sexual touching is a lot closer to rape than a punch is to murder, but to each their own.

What do you define as sexual touching? I'd think unwanted ass grabs happen in a club more often than you think.

I don't see how you can say an ass grab is closer to rape than a punch is to murder. How do you even compare those?

[MikeVic]

Oh he went into the women's washroom to touch her? That's kinda freaky.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Why are you assuming it's an ass grab? Isn't it just as likely to be another body part, or am I missing something?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

dola,

Anyway, to get to the tortured comparison, rape/sexual assault is about power and expressing your power over someone else. Punching someone in the face isn't necessarily about killing them.

[MikeVic]

Why are you assuming it's an ass grab? Isn't it just as likely to be another body part, or am I missing something?

I'm just using an example that, to me, is far from making Ben a serial rapist. Bad decision maker, sure, but not a serial rapist as this thread title still contains. I hate the news because of misleading titles and crap like that, and we have one here.

[MikeVic]

dola,

Anyway, to get to the tortured comparison, rape/sexual assault is about power and expressing your power over someone else. Punching someone in the face isn't necessarily about killing them.

I don't know, the comparison just doesn't sit well with me, I can't put it into words.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Bears noting here probably that we're mostly using "groping" or "ass grabbing" as a placeholder for whatever he's accused of doing. There was, IIRC, some unconfirmed stuff about the bathroom but officially

"The police report stated that the victim was “sexually assaulted or sexually manipulated” by a man and that she was treated and released from the Oconee Regional Medical Center."
Also The alleged victim sought medical treatment at Oconee Regional Medical Center upon the advice of law enforcement, according to Milledgeville Police Department Deputy Chief Richard Malone.

“[The victim went to the hospital] for evidence collection and to make sure she was all right,” he said during a Friday afternoon press conference.

That's the police spokesman talking, and the language is indeed straight from the incident report (http://unionrecorder.com/local/x1745486284/Roethlisberger-incident-report-release-available)

Also, with regard to the "sexual assault" headlining, that's also language taken from the police department press release stating they are "currently investigating a case of sexual assault".

[MikeVic]

Sorry, I haven't been reading the reports. If she had to go to a medical center, that means he left marks or something? And what's sexually manipulated?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sorry, I haven't been reading the reports. If she had to go to a medical center, that means he left marks or something? And what's sexually manipulated?

That probably brings us back to even more wild ass speculation. The presumable marks kind of made me figure he was titty grabbing too hard, but "sexually manipulated" is language that I would more often associate with putting, umm, one or more fingers further south.

[MikeVic]

That probably brings us back to even more wild ass speculation. The presumable marks kind of made me figure he was titty grabbing too hard, but "sexually manipulated" is language that I would more often associate with putting, umm, one or more fingers further south.

Yeah, I think that makes sense. Maybe making her grind on him can be manipulated too? I don't know.

[Rizon]

Wasn't there supposed to be a news conference 45 minutes ago?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wasn't there supposed to be a news conference 45 minutes ago?

First details coming through now apparently

http://unionrecorder.com/breakingnews/x1745487554/Witness-Alleged-victim-seen-with-QB-throughout-the-evening-of-incident

MILLEDGEVILLE — As the investigation continues into allegations of an alleged sex assault perpetrated by Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger against a 20-year-old woman at a downtown Milledgeville nightclub, a timeline of Roethlisberger’s visit to Milledgeville is coming to light just moments before a press conference on the incident is scheduled to begin.

Scott Eady, an employee at downtown’s 119 Chops, said that he understood that Roethlisberger came to Milledgeville Thursday night after being ejected from a bar near his home on Lake Oconee earlier in the evening.

“He had been kicked out of a bar at Lake Oconee before he even came to Milledgeville,” Eady said.

Although unconfirmed, the information may shed light on why Roethlisberger chose Milledgeville as he celebrated his birthday with a small group of friends Thursday night.

Eady, who is familiar with the alleged victim, said she and Roethlisberger were together throughout the night.

“She was with him all night,” Eady said, “at The Brick, at Velvet [Elvis]. It wasn’t like he grabbed just some girl.”

Eady said that he witnessed the pair go to a back room at Capital City nightclub, where the alleged incident reportedly took place.

“They were in a corner down a little hallway that takes you to the manager’s office,” Eady said.

He said that he doubted any girls knew of the previous allegation of sexual assault made against Roethlisberger, referring to the civil case filled against the Steelers quarterback by Reno, Nev. woman last July accusing Roethlisberger of rape, a charge he has vehemently denied. No criminal charges were ever filed. Other media have reported that a civil case has been filed and remains active in the court system.

“I don’t know any girls that know that this [the allegations] had happened before,” Eady said.

On the night of the alleged incident, the Milledgeville Police Department reported that the NFL star and his accuser visited several bars before the alleged incident took place.

The police report stated that the victim was “sexually assaulted or sexually manipulated” by a man and that she was treated and released from the Oconee Regional Medical Center.

According to the police report, the alleged victim described her attacker as a 6-foot-5, and 241 pounds male, but did not name Roethlisberger as the attacker.

Police stated that the alleged incident happened sometime between 11 p.m. Thursday and 2:30 a.m. at the Capitol City nightclub on Wayne Street.

Also, earlier today, Georgia College issued a statement (http://unionrecorder.com/breakingnews/x1897229208/GCSU-issues-statement-regarding-alleged-assault) that seems to confirm that the alleged victim was a student there. Which matters not one iota to anyone here most likely, just randomly throwing that tidbit out there.

[GrantDawg]

I'm just using an example that, to me, is far from making Ben a serial rapist. Bad decision maker, sure, but not a serial rapist as this thread title still contains. I hate the news because of misleading titles and crap like that, and we have one here.


Sorry, but I am not a major media outlet or a Journalist. I posted a thred to discuss this case in consideration with the other case involving Ben. I actually more expected jokes about Ben and breakfast foods than anything else.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm just using an example that, to me, is far from making Ben a serial rapist. Bad decision maker, sure, but not a serial rapist as this thread title still contains. I hate the news because of misleading titles and crap like that, and we have one here.

Hmm ... mostly thinking on this after GD's later reply, but back to the quote a little bit ...

I'm thinking that the latest incident does put a lot more doubt on what did or didn't happen in the Tahoe case & if indeed there's a couple of incidents then I'd be downright shocked if those were the only two women with with he acted inappropriately at best and quite likely (given the fairly low threshold needed) criminally at much worse.

[Galaxy]

Why'd you have to bring Patrick Kane into this?

SI

Match point.

[Galaxy]

Oh he went into the women's washroom to touch her? That's kinda freaky.

Washroom? Silly Canuck. :)

On a serious matter, I find the exact height and weight thing to throw me off.

[PilotMan]

Here's a thought. If she touched him in any way that was sexual wouldn't that damage her credibility that it wasn't consensual in some way? Or does her behavior not matter at all in determining guilt on his part?

[molson]

On a serious matter, I find the exact height and weight thing to throw me off.

It's odd, but the weight descriptions are only useful in identfying someone, but identification doesn't seem to be an issue in this case - she knew this was Roethlisberger, she had been hanging out with him all night, and it doesn't appear in dispute that Roesthlisberger was there. It was either him or nobody that committed the crime.

There's probably some weird explanation - either Roethlisberger told her his weight at some point, or she looked it up on her cell phone internet while filling out police paperwork.

[MikeVic]

Washroom? Silly Canuck. :)

On a serious matter, I find the exact height and weight thing to throw me off.

Peyton Manning is listed at 6'5" and 230lbs on the Colts site... hmm.

[ISiddiqui]

Here's a thought. If she touched him in any way that was sexual wouldn't that damage her credibility that it wasn't consensual in some way? Or does her behavior not matter at all in determining guilt on his part?

Of course it could be used to determine consent or how unconsentual the touching was... which also depends on what the touching by Roethlisberger actually was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Here's a thought. If she touched him in any way that was sexual wouldn't that damage her credibility that it wasn't consensual in some way? Or does her behavior not matter at all in determining guilt on his part?

Not much, not really. If she said stop or no or anything of that sort, he's guilty if he continues.

[ISiddiqui]

Not much, not really. If she said stop or no or anything of that sort, he's guilty if he continues.

Of course the question is if she did say no, which usually ends up being a he said, she said... and if you are selling the case to a jury and she had her hands all over him all night, that tends to make Roethlisberger's attorneys jobs a slight bit easier.

[GrantDawg]

Not much, not really. If she said stop or no or anything of that sort, he's guilty if he continues.


Right, but if that were the case it will make it harder for conviction. Legal standing aside, if this goes to a jury things like her touching, flirting, sexual comments, etc. will weigh on a jurist mind. Also, how much had she drank that night? Was she otherwise impared? Then there will be attacks her character (one night stands? Past drug use?). All of it will be in the court of opinions most likely before a trial ever happens. If this goes to charges, expect every dirty secret (and some completely fabricated stories) to be put out not long after.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Of course the question is if she did say no, which usually ends up being a he said, she said... and if you are selling the case to a jury and she had her hands all over him all night, that tends to make Roethlisberger's attorneys jobs a slight bit easier.

Eh, with a jury from the local pool, odds are he could violate her with a 2x4 and not get convicted unless he was a Florida Gator.

[GrantDawg]

It's odd, but the weight descriptions are only useful in identfying someone, but identification doesn't seem to be an issue in this case - she knew this was Roethlisberger, she had been hanging out with him all night, and it doesn't appear in dispute that Roesthlisberger was there. It was either him or nobody that committed the crime.

There's probably some weird explanation - either Roethlisberger told her his weight at some point, or she looked it up on her cell phone internet while filling out police paperwork.

Actually, there was very little that was put out in the press conference today, but the police chief did say she identfied him by name. I think the height/weight thing was the press officer misreading the information.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You have to keep in mind that Milledgeville was basically one of the options "going to town" when we lived in Monticello. I'm not unfamiliar, truly one of the most fucked up places I've ever seen in just about every possible way.

It's also, unrelated to this, the site of the worst sports-related violence I ever saw in person. That's the story I think I've told here before, where basically the seniors on an 0-10 HS football team started a brawl in the 4th quarter of their last game & when their coaching staff came out to break it up the players used the opportunity to start pounding on their own coaches. Well, they did for a couple of minutes until what looked like a small army of police came out of nowhere with batons in hand and routed the players, obviously having been tipped off to what was going to happen (never seen that many cops, not even by half, at anything of this sort).

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think the height/weight thing was the press officer misreading the information.

Nope, Sgt Blash put it in his report exactly that way, 241 pounds.
See it in the second image at
http://unionrecorder.com/local/x1745486284/Roethlisberger-incident-report-release-available

Just noticed something interesting on that report though, the reporting officer is Sgt J Blash and the approving officer is Sgt J Blash. Now either he's authorized to approve his own reports (which seems a bit silly), or someone ain't exactly following procedure.

[GrantDawg]

Nope, Sgt Blash put it in his report exactly that way, 241 pounds.
See it in the second image at
http://unionrecorder.com/local/x1745486284/Roethlisberger-incident-report-release-available

Just noticed something interesting on that report though, the reporting officer is Sgt J Blash and the approving officer is Sgt J Blash. Now either he's authorized to approve his own reports (which seems a bit silly), or someone ain't exactly following procedure.


But he didn't put a name in the report, and she knew his name. That doesn't say she described him that way, it was the way the officer described him. I doubt she ran up to him amd said "I was just assulted by a white male." Those are his words for the report. I suspect it was the officer that went to NFL.com to get the physical stats.

[GrantDawg]

Further, notice the check box "Stranger to Stranger" marked no. There is no claim she didn't know who he was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But he didn't put a name in the report, and she knew his name. That doesn't say she described him that way, it was the way the officer described him. I doubt she ran up to him amd said "I was just assulted by a white male." Those are his words for the report. I suspect it was the officer that went to NFL.com to get the physical stats.

Yeah, that's what I was saying (or trying to say) just that it wasn't "... the press officer misreading the information."

[Rizon]

A murder in that town today, too.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah, that's what I was saying (or trying to say) just that it wasn't "... the press officer misreading the information."


I think he was. I should look for it, but I seem to remember the intial press officer saying that she said she was assulted by a "white male, 6'5 245 pounds." I have a feeling that she came claiming she was assulted by an over-grown idiot named Ben, and the officer inserted the rest.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think he was. I should look for it, but I seem to remember the intial press officer saying that she said she was assulted by a "white male, 6'5 245 pounds." I have a feeling that she came claiming she was assulted by an over-grown idiot named Ben, and the officer inserted the rest.

Ohhhhhh, now I get what you were saying. I must have missed that version of it along the way. My bad I reckon, I was just 'fused.

[Logan]

Oof.

Report: Big Ben Told Cops No Sex with Accuser | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/10/ben-roethlisberger-report-contact-sexual-intercourse-capital-city-nightclub-interview/#ixzz0hp0k6ZAx)

Ben Roethlisberger told police that he never had sex with his accuser, but admitted she bumped her head after the two made "contact" in the bathroom -- this according to a new report.

KDKA in Pittsburgh claims they spoke with insiders who claim Ben told Milledgeville police that the woman "slipped and fell" after an incident in the bathroom at the Capital City nightclub.

According to the report, the woman suffered injuries to her head.



KDKA.com in Pittsburgh are claiming they know what Ben Roethlisberger said to police immediately after the alleged sexual assault. Here is his version of the story allegedly.

When Roethlisberger talked to police the night of the event he told them there was no sexual intercourse. He did have sexual contact with the woman but it was not consummated. He said he did not force himself on the woman, but she did fall and hit her head.

Also it is being reported that Roethlisberger’s lawyers have not agreed to a DNA sample even though the police have asked for it.

[RainMaker]

At first I didn't think anything of this story, but I think it's one of those things that won't go away. I would not be surprised at all to see him charged at some point. Fair or not, I can see a smaller college town police and DA being pissed about some big shot coming in and fucking with the college girls. His story is also kind of weird if true. I mean they fooled around and she fell and hit her head? Something about the story just seems off to me.

And guilty or not, Big Ben is a fucking moron. Why on Earth would you put yourself in a position like that?

[Karlifornia]

This is some pretty confusing shit. Less than 1% of pro athletes get accused of sexual assault, and wayyyy less than 1% get accused of it twice. However, it seems as though the first accuser was batshit crazy. Does that make her a liar? Who knows? This whole situation is unfortunately murky, and I do not envy the detectives that are obligated to follow the case.

[GrantDawg]

Oof.

Report: Big Ben Told Cops No Sex with Accuser | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/10/ben-roethlisberger-report-contact-sexual-intercourse-capital-city-nightclub-interview/#ixzz0hp0k6ZAx)


This story gets murkier. She hit her head, and they believe there is dna evidence. More details need to come out (and of course we don't know if this report is true), but the chances that this just goes away have gone way down.

[RainMaker]

The girls story could be complete bullshit for all we know. But still, what the fuck is he doing messing around with a drunk 20 year old girl in a bathroom at a college bar? There is nothing good that can come of that.

And that complete lack of common sense is what makes me question what really went down that night. On the surface, it's incomprehensible that an athlete of Ben's stature would force himself on to a girl. But after hearing how stupid he is with his decision making in life, I don't put it past him.

[Easy Mac]

I heard he used this pick up line:

Would you like to meet Steely McBeam and Troy Palmallofu?

[Julio Riddols]

Why would he be in the same bathroom with her and why admit to this kind of contact? That right there is enough to cast the eye or suspicion his way. Not a good decision, especially given his track record. If this one doesn't bite him, one of these sleeping dogs he keeps poking with these sticks of ignorance will eventually wake up and take a nice chunk out of his ass. Time to stay away from the bars, or party with a different group of people who can help him to not make these decisions.

[Logan]

Why would he be in the same bathroom with her and why admit to this kind of contact?

Speculating here of course but sounds like he knows there are witnesses who saw him in there, and he also knows she sustained some kind of "injury" (quoting that because maybe they were making out and he got a little extra heated and forced her up against a wall and she hit her head). So you admit to everything that you know could be proven or verified and deny what you know can't be (like groping or slapping your dick against her hip).

[claphamsa]

I cant believe there aren't pics of this chick all over the internet...

Being that this is all that comes to mind to me, I am apparent very jaded!

[PilotMan]

Big Ben must be appropriate because he sure gets a lot of pussy.

[Matthean]

“He had been kicked out of a bar at Lake Oconee before he even came to Milledgeville,” Eady said.

Dude was looking for trouble from the start.

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[GrantDawg]

Speculating here of course but sounds like he knows there are witnesses who saw him in there, and he also knows she sustained some kind of "injury" (quoting that because maybe they were making out and he got a little extra heated and forced her up against a wall and she hit her head). So you admit to everything that you know could be proven or verified and deny what you know can't be (like groping or slapping your dick against her hip).


Sounds like it to me, too. Plus, there is no telling how many video cameras there are in that bar. They may even have footage of him going into the bathroom with her. Going to make it hard to deny.

[Warhammer]

You know, if Ben watched more porn growing up, this wouldn't have happened.

[cartman]

My guess is that initially the sex is consensual with these girls, but mid-coitus the girl realizes "Hey, if this progresses further, and we end up getting married, my last name will be Roethlisberger" and they freak the fuck out.

[DeToxRox]

I have seen pics of the girl in question.

You know when you see Ben make an awful decision during a game and you go "What the fuck is he thinking?"

It's applicable here also.

It's not at the point where he has to worry about competing for pussy with Steve Phillips, but he's not gonna' be nipping at Ton Brady's heels anytime soon.

[DeToxRox]

Or perhaps he says something stupid like, "Do you want my Roethlisfrank to go with the Roethlisberger?"

That might be the best post on FOFC in 2010 thus far.

[ageofquarrel]

I thought this was funny one of the backups on the steelers was at the bar my friend works at someone asked him what Ben was like. He said a lot of teammates don't like him personally. He compared him to the wigger from that movie Malibu's Most Wanted. Dont remember the guys name I think he went to Roman Catholic HS in philly.

[DanGarion]

I thought this was funny one of the backups on the steelers was at the bar my friend works at someone asked him what Ben was like. He said a lot of teammates don't like him personally. He compared him to the wigger from that movie Malibu's Most Wanted. Dont remember the guys name I think he went to Roman Catholic HS in philly.

B-rad.

[DanGarion]

But still, what the fuck is he doing messing around with a drunk 20 year old girl in a bathroom at a college bar? There is nothing good that can come of that.

I beg to differ.

[TroyF]

I know all of this is allegation stuff at this point, but Ben had better have damned well told the exact truth of what happened to the police. If they are requesting DNA, they at least have cause to think they can make a case out of this.

I usually get aggravated at the people who say "if she hadn't worn that, she wouldn't have been raped" or "if he'd just stayed home, he wouldn't be in this position" Here? I have to admit it is correct. He gets kicked out of one club, moves on to another club and decides he wants sex with a 20 year old in the bathroom? This goes back to the first page of the thread, why didn't anyone with him say "Ya know Ben, I think you've had enough tonight, let's cap this B-day party early and get some rest"?

He put himself in a horrible situation here. I go back to his statement to the police. He'd better hope to God there is no physical evidence that is contrary to his comments. If that's the case, this thing gets much uglier than it is now.

[Logan]

I usually get aggravated at the people who say "if she hadn't worn that, she wouldn't have been raped" or "if he'd just stayed home, he wouldn't be in this position" Here? I have to admit it is correct. He gets kicked out of one club, moves on to another club and decides he wants sex with a 20 year old in the bathroom? This goes back to the first page of the thread, why didn't anyone with him say "Ya know Ben, I think you've had enough tonight, let's cap this B-day party early and get some rest"?

Doesn't even need to be like that. As Tiger proved, a rich celebrity who wants to crush tons of random hot chicks can have that provided for him effortlessly. IF Ben is guilty of this, it's likely because he has serious issues with behaving like a functional human being, and not just because he couldn't handle blue balls.

[stevew]

Even if he is cleared of this, I suspect that 2010 will be his last season in Pittsburgh. Arizona would be a logical destination if leinart doesn't set the world on fire.

Something just aint right with the dude. Like others said, people complete careers with no allegations. With him it is twice. Then all that motorcycle garbage. I'm just over it.

[rowech]

That might be the best post on FOFC in 2010 thus far.

I'll see if I can top it...

He might say the Roethlisfrank comes between two buns...

[Balldog]

I thought this was funny one of the backups on the steelers was at the bar my friend works at someone asked him what Ben was like. He said a lot of teammates don't like him personally. He compared him to the wigger from that movie Malibu's Most Wanted. Dont remember the guys name I think he went to Roman Catholic HS in philly.

Sounds like the tool that everyone in Findlay remembers him as, well except for the older people who adore him because he is a NFL player.

I was told by a girl I was dating back in the day that her and a friend were at Outback Steakhouse and Roethlisberger was there, he hit on both girls and they both blew him off. Then he used the don't you know who I am line.

He was at Bob Evans with 10 family members, the manager asked him to autograph a picture for the store. He said sure as long as they pick up the bill, the manager says ok. Roethlisberger stiffs the waitress, no tip.

He also told the FFD he would donate a large amount of money if he was ever drafted in the NFL, they have yet to see a dime.

Everything I've seen from running into him when I used to live in Findlay to all the stuff I've heard about him around town lead me to believe he is a complete d-bag.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I was told by a girl I was dating back in the day that her and a friend were at Outback Steakhouse and Roethlisberger was there, he hit on both girls and they both blew him off.

Sounds like he got what he wanted then

edit: Oh, sorry ... you said blew him off

:D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oopsie (for the cop at least)

Cop who wrote incident report had pictures taken with Roethlisberger *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/cop-who-wrote-incident-365838.html)
The Milledgeville cop who filed the initial incident report accusing Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of sexual assault posed in pictures with the NFL star hours earlier, the Milledgeville Union-Recorder reports.

Roethlisberger's accuser, a 20-year-old female student at Georgia College and State University, found Sgt. Jerry Blash to report the alleged incident last week.

Blash, who had taken several close-up pictures in the city's downtown area with the quarterback, reportedly wrote the initial report that did not identify Roethlisberger as the suspect.

Police Chief Woodrow Blue told the Union-Recorder that officers handled the case properly, and the investigators on the case were not among other officers pictured with Roethlisberger.

"The photographs did not and have not affected the investigation at all," Blue told the Union-Recorder.
http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00452/fp-roethlisberger_452789g.jpg

[JediKooter]

Oopsie (for the cop at least)

Cop who wrote incident report had pictures taken with Roethlisberger *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/cop-who-wrote-incident-365838.html)
The Milledgeville cop who filed the initial incident report accusing Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger of sexual assault posed in pictures with the NFL star hours earlier, the Milledgeville Union-Recorder reports.

Roethlisberger's accuser, a 20-year-old female student at Georgia College and State University, found Sgt. Jerry Blash to report the alleged incident last week.

Blash, who had taken several close-up pictures in the city's downtown area with the quarterback, reportedly wrote the initial report that did not identify Roethlisberger as the suspect.

Police Chief Woodrow Blue told the Union-Recorder that officers handled the case properly, and the investigators on the case were not among other officers pictured with Roethlisberger.

"The photographs did not and have not affected the investigation at all," Blue told the Union-Recorder.
http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00452/fp-roethlisberger_452789g.jpg

The only thing missing in that picture is a mullet on 'ol Ben.

[RainMaker]

Reports are that he's hired a top private investigator to dig up dirt on the girl. I know that celebrities get accused of false crimes a lot, but it's kind of sad how if this girl was a victim, they'll literally destroy her life now.

The Associated Press: Roethlisberger's lawyer hires private investigator (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jeOMaBS-CggqylgNYM_Ic1AvnstQD9EDCCO80)

[bulletsponge]

Reports are that he's hired a top private investigator to dig up dirt on the girl. I know that celebrities get accused of false crimes a lot, but it's kind of sad how if this girl was a victim, they'll literally destroy her life now.

The Associated Press: Roethlisberger's lawyer hires private investigator (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jeOMaBS-CggqylgNYM_Ic1AvnstQD9EDCCO80)

it worked the first time...

[GrantDawg]

Reports are that he's hired a top private investigator to dig up dirt on the girl. I know that celebrities get accused of false crimes a lot, but it's kind of sad how if this girl was a victim, they'll literally destroy her life now.

The Associated Press: Roethlisberger's lawyer hires private investigator (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jeOMaBS-CggqylgNYM_Ic1AvnstQD9EDCCO80)


No surprise. Standard operating procedure on these cases, and the reason so many rapes go unreported. They will make this girl out to be Satan regardless of her history.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I saw this morning where the local DA will announce on Monday whether charges will be filed against Roethlesberger.

But I'm posting more because it hadn't hit me until I saw the story with the D.A.'s name - Fred Bright. His jurisdiction as a prosecutor also happens to cover the little berg of Monticello, GA where I spent most of my FOFC posting life.

His nickname "Not So", as in Fred "Not So" Bright. This guy couldn't have convicted Hitler of jaywalking nor Lady Godiva of exposure. Not only is he brutally bad but his staff has proven consistently unable to get even the weakest of convictions with overwhelming cases. Even if Ben is charged, the only way he's getting convicted of anything is if he pleads guilty.

[GrantDawg]

I saw this morning where the local DA will announce on Monday whether charges will be filed against Roethlesberger.

But I'm posting more because it hadn't hit me until I saw the story with the D.A.'s name - Fred Bright. His jurisdiction as a prosecutor also happens to cover the little berg of Monticello, GA where I spent most of my FOFC posting life.

His nickname "Not So", as in Fred "Not So" Bright. This guy couldn't have convicted Hitler of jaywalking nor Lady Godiva of exposure. Not only is he brutally bad but his staff has proven consistently unable to get even the weakest of convictions with overwhelming cases. Even if Ben is charged, the only way he's getting convicted of anything is if he pleads guilty.


I would guess that he is not getting charged. Unless the presser is to annouce they are sending the case to the Grand Jury (which would be a strange reason to have a presser), they are more than likely closing the case. I would guess there will be some sort of outrage one way or another after this is done.

[Dr. Sak]

Sources: Ben Roethlisberger will not be charged - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5071769)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I would guess there will be some sort of outrage one way or another after this is done.

Short of them having video of the victim saying yes & signing a waiver, or her recanting, I'd say that's a fair bet.

[stevew]

ESPN says no charges to be filed.

Hopefully that clears the way for a trade. Send him to St Louis or San Fran and be done with it.

[molson]

He still has two times zones to go before he hits for the cycle.

[Sgran]

ESPN says no charges to be filed.

Hopefully that clears the way for a trade. Send him to St Louis or San Fran and be done with it.

I hear Michael Vick is available...

[stevew]

I hear Michael Vick is available...

I'll go ahead and pass on that one.

Seriously, a serial wanker/exposer like Charles Haley goes his entire career without rape type allegations. Ben gets nailed 2 times in a year. Even if it's just questionable screwing, he's gotta do better than that. Couple that with the motorcycle nonsense, I'm just over it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

DA: No charges against Steelers' Roethlisberger *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/da-no-charges-against-455503.html)

No charges from the DA, saying "the 20-year-old student's accusations could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and her lawyer said in a letter that she did not want to press charges.

"Therefore there will be no arrests made nor criminal prosecution against Mr. Roethlisberger," Bright said."

[Rizon]

In other surprising news: Lance Bass is gay.

[Swaggs]

Ben better keep his shit straight, for the rest of his playing career, if he wants to salvage any type of decent legacy in Pittsburgh.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In fairness (to a guy who I personally believe is as guilty as homemade sin on this one), here's the local version (http://unionrecorder.com/local/x993496428/DA-Roethlisberger-will-not-face-criminal-charges)of the story with more complete quotes from the DA.

“The sexual allegation against Mr. Roethlisberger cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt,” said Bright during Monday’s press conference, which has drawn outside media from all over the country.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the Milledgeville Police Department turned over their findings to the district attorney’s office last week. Bright said there was no evidence to warrant criminal charges in the case.

“This decision was not difficult to reach,” said Bright.

He said that neither Roethlisberger nor the student will face criminal charges.

“We’re still waiting on a few other bits and pieces, but it won’t change anything,” he said of closure to the investigation. “It’s [the case] closed.”

Both parties, had been out downtown frequenting bars in the hours leading up to the events in question, said Bright.

“There were conversations, actions — and it was a two-way street — of a sexual nature,” he said of the events leading up to the allegations.

Case is a good example as a night that got out of hand, he said.

“Her details are somewhat foggy,” said Bright, due to the 20-year-old’s possible level of intoxication.

That's a little different, in my reading at least, that the national version which seems to be more along the lines of "we don't have enough to prove anything". This sounds more like, we don't have shit beyond her word.

[stevew]

Why isn't a 20 year old who was >.20 drunk facing any kind of charges. And/or the establishment.

[path12]

Why isn't a 20 year old who was >.20 drunk facing any kind of charges. And/or the establishment.

You might say she already was punished.

[Apathetic Lurker]

DA: No charges against Steelers' Roethlisberger *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/da-no-charges-against-455503.html)

No charges from the DA, saying "the 20-year-old student's accusations could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and her lawyer said in a letter that she did not want to press charges.

"Therefore there will be no arrests made nor criminal prosecution against Mr. Roethlisberger," Bright said."

I wonder how much poorer big ben is after this.....

[thesloppy]

Why isn't a 20 year old who was >.20 drunk facing any kind of charges. And/or the establishment.

Admittedly, I don't know shit about the law, but I think you might have to be literally caught in possession of alcohol (or driving a vehicle) to be prosecuted for underage drinking.....and as path12 implied, I doubt any police department is too motivated to press those kinda rinky-dink charges, against the victim in the course of a rape investigation (especially one guaranteed to have massive publicity). As for the bar, I assume she had a fake ID, which may provide them some sort of deniability.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As for the bar, I assume she had a fake ID, which may provide them some sort of deniability.

Not in Georgia that wouldn't. But IIRC the standard here pretty much requires law enforcement to see the transaction take place for prosecution (which is why virtually all of our underage drinking arrests come from sting operations).

[NewIdentity]

I wonder how much poorer big ben is after this.....
The erasing of the all the tapes had to cost Ben a shit load of money.


And, the girl did not need a fake ID to get into the bar since the Bar is a teenage 18 and over place.

[thesloppy]

the Bar is a teenage 18 and over place.

Ahhh...so was it like a quasi-restaurant, TGI McFriday's kinda joint or something? Now it sounds like more of a classy, romantical encounter.

[NewIdentity]

Ahhh...so was it like a quasi-restaurant, TGI McFriday's kinda joint or something? Now it sounds like more of a classy, romantical encounter.
Well, supposedly according to the police report, the place where Ben was buying all the girls their shots took place in one of the private VIP rooms. I have no idea what the age restrictions would be in these VIP rooms and if Ben was the one pouring the shots from a bottle, or if he was just buying it for everyone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ahhh...so was it like a quasi-restaurant, TGI McFriday's kinda joint or something? Now it sounds like more of a classy, romantical encounter.

Heaven's no, it's more like a quasi-dive as I recall. But like most of the music clubs in that town, it's 18 & up.

[Samdari]

When
"we don't have shit beyond her word."

and

“Her details are somewhat foggy,”

That really adds up to "we don't have shit"

I really don't see how the NFL or the Steelers can punish him. Sure, both will bring him in for long talks about how his current methods in seeking companionship WILL catch up to him eventually. But, he's never been arrested or charged with any crime.

[Logan]

That was the weirdest DA-speak I've heard in some time. It was like he was auditioning for Scorcese's next movie.

[Abe Sargent]

In WV, if you get someone drunk, and you are not, and then they agree to sleep with you, it's sexual assault, because they cannot make informed consent.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That was the weirdest DA-speak I've heard in some time. It was like he was auditioning for Scorcese's next movie.

That'd be Fred "Not So" Bright for you.

[JPhillips]

When
"we don't have shit beyond her word."

and

“Her details are somewhat foggy,”

That really adds up to "we don't have shit"

I really don't see how the NFL or the Steelers can punish him. Sure, both will bring him in for long talks about how his current methods in seeking companionship WILL catch up to him eventually. But, he's never been arrested or charged with any crime.

The NFL definitely can punish him. What he's admitted to after a previous incident is enough for the commissioner to levy a short suspension. The personal conduct clause can be applied far short of a criminal conviction.

[NewIdentity]

In WV, if you get someone drunk, and you are not, and then they agree to sleep with you, it's sexual assault, because they cannot make informed consent.
Yeah, and using this definition I can't tell you the number of times I have been raped myself. Waking up in bed with a woman that sober I would have had nothing to do with. :)

Hello 911, yeah there is some ugly broad lying next to me that you need to come and arrest immediately!

[Swaggs]

The NFL definitely can punish him. What he's admitted to after a previous incident is enough for the commissioner to levy a short suspension. The personal conduct clause can be applied far short of a criminal conviction.

I disagree in this case. With no criminal findings, I don't see how they can punish him (a single guy) for hooking up with a female (of a legal age). There is just nothing to punish the guy for, in this case and attempting to would be battled (and, in my opinion, easily won) by the players' union.

I'm really disappointed and down on Roethlisberger (a big part of me really wants to see him gone), but I just don't see how he gets anything but a stern lecture from Goodell on this one.

The Steelers and Rooneys could, on the other hand, probably discipline him and, I would guess, he would be a little more willing to receive a punishment (fine/donation to charity, one game suspension, etc.) w/o fighting it.

[JPhillips]

I don't know what Goodell will do, but he doesn't need much to impose a suspension. Fooling around with a drunk girl in a public restroom while his lookout keeps people away is plenty given this isn't his first incident of questionable conduct. The union might be able to win an appeal, but given the almost absolute power of the commissioner, I don't think there's any doubt Goodell can impose some penalty if he chooses.

[MikeVic]

Off topic a bit, since it was a different regime, but did Ray Lewis get suspended for that murder thing? I don't want to make it sound like I think he should've or anything, I just honestly can't remember.

[Samdari]

The NFL definitely can punish him. What he's admitted to after a previous incident is enough for the commissioner to levy a short suspension. The personal conduct clause can be applied far short of a criminal conviction.

Which they have done many times.

In this case, the prosecutors have pretty much said there is no evidence a crime occurred. In fact, the only evidence they have that his conduct was in violation of any standard is her word. If they suspend him, they open up every player to being suspended do to unproven accusation.

Remember, we have only heard her side of the story. We - and the authorities - have not heard his side. And, her side is supported by NOTHING else.

The question of whether or not Goodell can suspend him for fooling around in a public bathroom while his bodyguard was a lookout is pretty much immaterial. The question is, is there any reasonable standard by which Goodell can be confident that happened, rather than this being an unfounded accusation? I think not.

[Swaggs]

His other incidents of questionable conduct are comprised of a pretty questionable lawsuit that is still under investigation, various reports of run-ins with Arnold Palmer :) and him being a general dickhead, and a motorcycle accident.

I don't think the NFL or Goodell will or should start the precedent of punishing players for things that might have happened, promiscuity, traffic accidents (that don't involve others' injuries), or being a general asshole. If they do, it is probably going to be tough for franchises to field full rosters.

[RendeR]

The point is, Ben continues to put himself into positions which compromise himself and the integrity of the league. THAT is all Goodell needs to levy whatever suspension he feels fitting.

Unlike MLB in the NFL the commissioner is God.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd say the question is how anyone in their right mind can see this much smoke & figure it's actually only steam instead of a fire.

Buying shots for a drunk 20 year old (which is verified) is ample grounds if Goodell is of a mind to suspend him.

[MikeVic]

The point is, Ben continues to put himself into positions which compromise himself and the integrity of the league. THAT is all Goodell needs to levy whatever suspension he feels fitting.

Unlike MLB in the NFL the commissioner is God.

Then the entire Bengals franchise should be suspended, if only for the thread on FOFC that kept pointing out Bengal-related law enforcement things. :)

[RendeR]

Then the entire Bengals franchise should be suspended, if only for the thread on FOFC that kept pointing out Bengal-related law enforcement things. :)


I'm not arguing that....

[MikeVic]

I'm not arguing that....

:lol:

[thesloppy]

Buying shots for a drunk 20 year old (which is verified) is ample grounds if Goodell is of a mind to suspend him.

That was my thought too. I agree you can't punish him for a crime that hasn't been proven in any way shape or form, but he's admitted to buying an underage girl drinks and then having sexual contact in a public bathroom. While neither of those things are criminal acts, I'm sure they fit under the umbrella of bad personal conduct (and possibly the rather vague terms of substance abuse in most NFL contracts), and were specific enough acts that he can be punished for such without worrying about the union putting up a stink. Even moreso, if he's somehow gathered up some previous personal conduct strikes over the course of the other investigation, or the motorcycle accident (though again, neither were criminal, may have violated terms of his Steelers/NFL contract)

I suppose it may open the slippery question of "Should an NFL player have to card every women he meets, before buying her a drink or flirting with her?", but as far as I can tell he was pouring drinks in the VIP of an 18-and-up bar, so this was somewhat of a special and specific case, in that you're not going to run into that situation in a-strictly-over-21 bar, or anywhere where the staff is doing the serving. I think he could get bent over a barrel without the union objecting too much, due to the specifics of the encounter and the environment.

[Noop]

I don't believe he raped her at all.

[MikeVic]

Are people upset that he bought drinks for a 20-year-old, because she wasn't 21?

[Noop]

Are people upset that he bought drinks for a 20-year-old, because she wasn't 21?

No, they are upset because they have to act all high and mighty.

News flash gentlemen they are not your daughters so.... let dem suk dat dick n tak dat pipe in dey booty n stop playa hatin on a playa.

fuck u mean?






LOL

[thesloppy]

Are people upset that he bought drinks for a 20-year-old, because she wasn't 21?

I would imagine that actually a fair number of people are....as for me personally, that part doesn't upset me all that much.

[Swaggs]

I'd say the question is how anyone in their right mind can see this much smoke & figure it's actually only steam instead of a fire.

Buying shots for a drunk 20 year old (which is verified) is ample grounds if Goodell is of a mind to suspend him.

Again -- I don't agree. The bar is responsible for verifying the age of the patrons it serves and the woman (who is a 20-year old adult), if she was seeking the drinks or failing to decline, probably bares as much responsibility.

I think Goodell is aware of the precedent he could set in a case like this. It is one thing to offer to buy your 14-year old babysitter a six-pack of beer. It is another to buy a drink for a woman in a bar (who, I imagine was probably already drinking).

Maybe Goodell will end up dropping the hammer on Roethlisberger, but I just don't think there is enough evidence to do anything too punitive because it sets up too strict of a precedent for the league to enforce. For example, is buying an underage woman a drink in a bar that willing serves her really worse than a DUI? Does the commissioner's office really want to deal with that?

Folks can talk about Ben's history, but there isn't really as much substance in there as they would like to believe. The open lawsuit, the motorcycle accident, and this incident is pretty much it. If the rape lawsuit develops into something, I'm all for putting him in prison, ending his career, and draining his bank account.

Until that happens, I think the meeting goes more along the lines of, "Quit being such a stupid fucking, fuck up, you stupid fucker!"

[thesloppy]

Again -- I don't agree. The bar is responsible for verifying the age of the patrons it serves and the woman (who is a 20-year old adult), if she was seeking the drinks or failing to decline, probably bares as much responsibility.

As I understand it (thanks to fellows on this board), it was a bar that had an 18-and-over section, and Ben ushered her into a private VIP room and poured the liquor himself. The bar didn't serve her or allow her entry in to the bar area.

[Noop]

He didn't rape her.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Someone will bite soon Noop, keep at it.

[thesloppy]

He didn't rape her.

Fer the record, I don't wanna change your mind. And while I have no problem tossing around half-facts and assumptions about Ben Roethlisberger, his motivations and morals, I don't wanna engage anybody here personally over the matter. I'll talk about Big Ben all day behind his back, I don't particularly want to rake your and my semi-related (and probably much less tested, speaking for myself) morals over the coals, face to face. I'm pretty sure that makes me the dictionary definition of a 'hater', but I'm cool with that.

Suffice it to say that if a close friend, or even someone I know only from their nickname on this board, were accused under similar circumstances, I might give the matter a lot more thought and come up with a less shallow judgment....but as far as a celebrity whom I know nothing about personally, and is never going to hear/read my words is concerned, he's gonna get a lot less of the benefit of the doubt (although this seems to have become the opposite of how most Americans view these celebrity fuck-ups these days). No personal offense intended.

[lordscarlet]

I think Noop's assertion may be different than you're getting at? He was never even accused of rape. I don't believe there was any accusation of intercourse, for one. People saying the second allegation involved rape just aren't listening.

[molson]

Another one in Vegas?

Attorney Investigated Big Ben For Vegas Incident (http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/Attorney_Investigated_Big_Ben_For_Vegas_Incident/2416479)

[Noop]

Someone will bite soon Noop, keep at it.

Perhaps you will bite down?

[Samdari]

I'd say the question is how anyone in their right mind can see this much smoke & figure it's actually only steam instead of a fire.

Another way to look at it is the taint of accusation makes people more likely to believe successive accusations, even when none are true.

That said, I think its reasonable to conclude here that its more likely than not that there was some sort of sexual contact in that bathroom. I, however, do not think that "more likely than not" is enough to punish someone. There exists the very real possibility that this assault claim has no basis in fact, and that Ben did nothing wrong.

Goodell has to mete out punishment based on facts, and the only established facts of this incident are that she and Ben were at several bars in the area together, were in the VIP room, and that she was drunk, and that she probably had sex at some point. What I think he did is probably suspendable. What I know he did - not even close.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I, however, do not think that "more likely than not" is enough to punish someone.

It's more than ample when a)you're the commissioner & have been given that authority and b)that you're damaging (however slightly) the image of the league by repeatedly putting yourself in those positions.

For those curious about the more detailed versions, here's a transcript of the DA's post press conference interview. Definitely more detailed than you normally get from this sort of thing
D.A. Fred Bright Transcript plus the Post-Statement Interview | NationalSportsReview.com (http://nationalsportsreview.com/sports/us/d-wil/2010/04/12/da-fred-bright-transcript-plus-the-post-statement-interview/)

[thesloppy]

For those curious about the more detailed versions, here's a transcript of the DA's post press conference interview. Definitely more detailed than you normally get from this sort of thing
D.A. Fred Bright Transcript plus the Post-Statement Interview | NationalSportsReview.com (http://nationalsportsreview.com/sports/us/d-wil/2010/04/12/da-fred-bright-transcript-plus-the-post-statement-interview/)

Tanx for that link, it certainly was way more detailed and directly addressed a bunch of the popular minor questions like the possibility of underage drinking charges, their previous meetings that night, and the club layout.

[Abe Sargent]

Great link JIMGA, I read teh whole thing.

[Logan]

Wow, just walked past NFL headquarters on Park Ave. TON of media out there.

[Samdari]

It's more than ample when a)you're the commissioner & have been given that authority and b)that you're damaging (however slightly) the image of the league by repeatedly putting yourself in those positions.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the definition of "more than ample" and I suppose the amount of evidence that he did anything wrong (which in this case, is zero).

[thesloppy]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the definition of "more than ample" and I suppose the amount of evidence that he did anything wrong (which in this case, is zero).

Again, that's arguable. In the DA's interview he pretty much says Ben was technically guilty of a misdemeanor (as was she) for providing a minor with alcohol, but they chose not to prosecute those rinky-dink crimes, for a number of obvious reasons. I don't think it's out of the question that the commish could easily hang some semi-serious punishment on Ben, for damaging his, the Steelers, and/or the NFL's image, based on those terms alone:


Q: She was 20 years old. Will there be any prosecution for underage drinking?

A: No. We’ve pondered it and let me explain why. First of all, he, Mr. Roethlisberger, there’s a crime called furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21, OK? And she, the victim, there’s another crime called underage drinking. Both of these crimes are misdemeanors. Now, if we’re going to prosecute one, we’ve got to prosecute the other.

Let’s talk about him furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21. The only way we can prosecute him is through her testimony. As for her, she’s gone through enough already. I think she has learned a lesson here. I hope a lot of people that were involved in this case learned some lessons that evening. And the truth of the matter is there probably was too much alcohol drinking by too many people that night. … As far as Mr. Roethlisberger goes, he was here to celebrate his 28th birthday and he can drink whatever he wants as long as he doesn’t get behind the wheel of a car, and he had two non-drinking designated drivers, his so-called bodyguards. But Mr. Roethlisberger and some members of his entourage were drinking. Now my office normally prosecutes felonies here in the Superior Court of Baldwin County. Misdemeanors involving underage alcohol consumption normally don’t come across my desk and are handled in misdemeanor lower courts here in Milledgeville.

[GrantDawg]

Again, that's arguable. In the DA's interview he pretty much says Ben was technically guilty of a misdemeanor (as was she) for providing a minor with alcohol, but they chose not to prosecute those rinky-dink crimes, for a number of obvious reasons. I don't think it's out of the question that the commish could easily hang some semi-serious punishment on Ben, for damaging his, the Steelers, and/or the NFL's image, based on those terms alone:


Even more than that. I would say "zero" evidence is a mis-statement. There was some evidence, just not nearly enough. Her statements and his are suggestive, but without further evidence there was no way to go forward.

[NewIdentity]

Let’s talk about him furnishing alcohol to a minor under 21. The only way we can prosecute him is through her testimony.
Why? Ben admits to giving the girl alcohol in his statement to the police, and many witnesses have come forward all claiming to see Ben pouring drinks for the 20 year old and he friends, so I don't understand why the police would need the girl's testimony.

[RainMaker]

I'd say the question is how anyone in their right mind can see this much smoke & figure it's actually only steam instead of a fire.
At first I thought this was just total bullshit, but I've really shifted my opinion. I don't think Ben is some crazy rapist forcing himself on women. I do think he's an entitled guy who has used his celebrity status to take liberties with women.

Put yourself in a bar. A drunk girl goes into the bathroom and an older guy follows her. The guy then has his friend block the entrance so that her friends can't get in. If that guy is any regular Joe, there is no chance they get a free pass. People can talk all they want about girls targeting these guys, but these guys are allowed to be in positions average Joes aren't.

As for suspensions, who knows. It seems sort of random. I think he should get a game or two for putting the NFL in such a poor light. But I also don't see the NFL suspending a white Super Bowl MVP Quarterback playing on a major team.

[thesloppy]

I read an article suggesting that it would be easier for the NFL to have the Steelers to punish Ben under the more terms of 'conduct detrimental to the team', rather than having the NFL punish him directly as a violation of the league's Personal Conduct Policy. The suggestion was that such a team action may be less likely to be challenged by the players union and/or save them from having his punishment (or lack thereof) set a league-wide precedent in these kind of cases.

[flere-imsaho]

Gah, is English not that DA's first language?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gah, is English not that DA's first language?

Well he's completely fluent in both Idiot and Half-Wit, so by the time anyone gets to learning a third language I'm sure it gets harder to be completely comfortable.

[Swaggs]

I read an article suggesting that it would be easier for the NFL to have the Steelers to punish Ben under the more terms of 'conduct detrimental to the team', rather than having the NFL punish him directly as a violation of the league's Personal Conduct Policy. The suggestion was that such a team action may be less likely to be challenged by the players union and/or save them from having his punishment (or lack thereof) set a league-wide precedent in these kind of cases.

That's what I think, too. It is much more palatable for Goodell to kick the problem down to the Steelers, who can discipline him and, I would strongly guess, Roethlisberger (and, as an extension, the players' union) would be much less likely to appeal their punishment. I think it opens up too big a can of worms for the comissioner's office to take action.

[miked]

HA!! The Steelers are going to punish him strongly? Are we serious? At most, a 1-game suspension depending on who they play opening week.

[molson]

HA!! The Steelers are going to punish him strongly? Are we serious? At most, a 1-game suspension depending on who they play opening week.

Maybe they'll do the thing where he "doesn't start" (but plays every series after the first one).

[stevew]

They were planning on starting Willie Colon and Max Starks as his two tackles. That's punishment enough.

Maybe they'll mix in a few more 7 step drops too.

[Logan]

What the others are saying is that the NFL in a "wink wink" way would establish the suspension but have the team issue it. Doing it this way avoids all those other issues that people have brought up.

[Noop]

I meet Goodell when he came to my job to speak the kids. He is a cool dude but he can be an incredible douchebag when he wants to be. A lot of the players who were at the event commented that while they respect him they hate how he is making the NFL into a league for them. (The person was pointing at the rich white people who also attended the event.)

I thought that was pretty interesting considering the at least 4 of the players were still active and one is considered top at his position.

[Noop]

They were planning on starting Willie Colon and Max Starks as his two tackles. That's punishment enough.

Maybe they'll mix in a few more 7 step drops too.

This is funny. I wonder if Ben is traded will he be exposed as a not so great QB.

[Blackadar]

There’s absolutely no precedent for the NFL commish to suspend a player who has never been disciplined by the league, who has not been charged with a crime nor tested positive for illegal substances. None. I think Goodell could find himself in a serious fight with the NFLPA should he try to suspend Big Ben - one that he likely wouldn't win.

The grandstanding DA is just trying to justify the expense of the investigation with his little moral tantrum. He’s trying to justify a full month of police work that ultimately came up empty. But he didn’t want to be overshadowed by the Masters, so he had to wait until that was over before holding his press conference.

I repeat something the DA said in his press conference that’s been overlooked on this board – “we don’t even have for probable cause”. That means he didn’t even have enough evidence to get a search warrant or a Grand Jury indictment!!! That’s extremely telling. If a typical sexual assault took place, the physical evidence taken from the supposed victim should be pretty pronounced. There wouldn’t be such trace amounts of DNA that it couldn’t be tested, there should be quite a bit of it. There should be hair, fibers, obvious bruising, etc. Obviously, it wasn’t. Furthermore, the supposed victim has changed her story multiple times and was too intoxicated to be a credible witness.

When you look at the facts of the case, there’s nothing illegal here that can come close to being proven or even likely. Suspending a player based on rumors and innuendos? Good luck....the Steelers may suspend him, but the NFL won't do anything beyond fine Ben and perhaps say he's in therapy. They'll do that just to get him into the disciplinary program so they can take more stringent action if there's any further issues.

As for the Las Vegas lawsuit, anyone who spent 5 minutes reading her emails knows she's off her fucking rocker.

[thesloppy]

When you look at the facts of the case, there’s nothing illegal here that can come close to being proven or even likely.

How can you read through that whole DA interview, and this entire thread, and miss the part(s) about providing alcohol to a minor? It's certainly less of a crime than sexual assault, but it still qualifies as illegal, and has pretty much been proven and admitted to(if not prosecuted). That said, I agree with you (and it seems to be the popular opinion) that the punishment will come from the Steelers, rather than the league itself.

[Blackadar]

How can you read through that whole DA interview, and this entire thread, and miss the part(s) about providing alcohol to a minor? It's certainly less of a crime than sexual assault, but it still qualifies as illegal, and has pretty much been proven and admitted to(if not prosecuted). That said, I agree with you (and it seems to be the popular opinion) that the punishment will come from the Steelers, rather than the league itself.

Sorry, but unknowingly buying alcohol for a 20 year old who shouldn't been in a number of bars she visited that night isn't high on the moral crimes meter. These guys are football players, not monks. Should we suspend/fine NFL players for jaywalking?

I've read and listened to the entire DA's transcript. The most telling phrase is still "we didn’t even have probable cause in this case". There's really nothing else of substance there.

Frankly, I'm not sure what the Steelers will do. Big Ben is the leader of the offense and the face of the franchise. They can't throw him under the bus, or make him out to be the villain. If they do, they'll have a mess on their hands when the fans boo every time Ben takes the field, not to mention the locker room ramifications. They could trade Ben, but unless they get top dollar in a trade their fans and the players will be pissed off. This is a team built to win now and it'd be bad for business to let Ben go for a song and then watch him be successful elsewhere (and yes, he is a great QB) while the franchise struggles under Dennis Dixon. The Rooneys have to walk a very fine line.

[thesloppy]

Sorry, but unknowingly buying alcohol for a 20 year old who shouldn't been in a number of bars she visited that night isn't high on the moral crimes meter. These guys are football players, not monks. Should we suspend/fine NFL players for jaywalking?

I wasn't making any kind of moral judgment, just disputing your suggestion that nothing illegal could be proven or likely happened. That said, even taking it completely out of the context of the sexual assault case, it's a (now high profile) crime involving alcohol and an underage woman. I think both of those factors make the distinction pretty easy to make (and one that might already be made in writing, within players contracts, the league's Personal Conduct Policy and/or Substance Abuse Policy).

FULL DISCLOSURE: I've bought alcohol for various minors probably dozens of times in my life, and (badly) flirted with a number of drunk women/girls that were 10-or-more years younger than me at a hundred different times, so I'm not trying to make any sort of grand moral judgment regarding those issues, I just don't agree that there's not any proof or evidence of misconduct to punish Roethlisberger.

Regarding the fans, I'll definitely be interested to see how they respond towards him, as this thing evolves.

[Dr. Sak]

Art Rooney News Conference Set For 2:30 P.M. - News Story - WPXI Pittsburgh (http://www.wpxi.com/news/23155327/detail.html)

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd gain some newfound respect for the Steelers organization if they at least "slapped him on the wrist" for this (and all the other stuff), but I fear it will just be a news conference along the lines of "well the DA investigated and isn't filing charges. ben is our QB and we'd like to move foward into the season and put this behind us."

[Mustang]

But I also don't see the NFL suspending a white Super Bowl MVP Quarterback playing on a major team.

This is why I'm more prone to suspend him.

Labor disputes are around the corner and if one of the chips I want to play consists of putting in conduct clauses, I want to try to make sure that the player's association knows that conduct that the league deems deterimental to it's image are not going to be swayed by position or race.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If I was pressed for a guess about today's news, I'd go with some version of "the team has expressed their concerns to Ben & he's on notice that any other issues could lead to significant action".

Either that or "after consultation with Ben, we're supporting him as he enters treatment for personal issues and expect him to return by week 5 of the regular season".

[JPhillips]

I'm hearing unconfirmed reports that Rooney is going to allege that Roethlisberger groped him in the training room.

[MikeVic]

I'm hearing unconfirmed reports that Rooney is going to allege that Roethlisberger groped him in the training room.

And then Arnold Palmer threw them both out.

[JPhillips]

And then Arnold Palmer threw them both out.

I thought it would be Pumpy, but at least someone made the correct reply. :)

[Ragone]

Lost in all this, Steelers fans can no longer make fun of bengal's fans for having a criminal element on their team. I don't think any bengals ever tried to sexually assault anyone.

I didn't read every page of this thread, but apparently there is a 3rd woman from awhile back...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/13/boston-attorney-says-he-investigated-another-roethlisberger-incident/

[MikeVic]

Every team has a criminal element.

[Ragone]

true, but steeler's fans took pride in bashing the poor bengals for all their criminal woes..

[SteveMax58]

Every team has a criminal element.

Except for the Rams, I believe. My understanding is that you need actual players in order to have a criminal element.

[MikeVic]

I thought every fan took pride in bashing the Bengals' criminal woes. Isn't there a thread here somewhere to that effect?

[Blackadar]

Lost in all this, Steelers fans can no longer make fun of bengal's fans for having a criminal element on their team. I don't think any bengals ever tried to sexually assault anyone.

I didn't read every page of this thread, but apparently there is a 3rd woman from awhile back...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/13/boston-attorney-says-he-investigated-another-roethlisberger-incident/

Note that the attorney quickly backed off his statements a few short hours later.

"Mr. Manion did not mean to express or imply that he has any information that Mr. Roethlisberger engaged in any illegal behavior"

Let me know when Ben is arrested for sexual assault. Besides, it's not like the Bengals didn't have any retorts before: Santonio, Bam Morris, Plex, Jeff Reed, Davenport...

[Ragone]

Bam Morris's/plex's and davenports problems all happened elsewhere for the most part.. all things most steeler's fans will bring up if you try to downplay their criminal element

(I live next door to the biggest steeler fan on the planet i believe, i've had this arguement before)

Regardless of all this, nobody will ever know what really transpired, but it sure does look bad.

[Blackadar]

Bam Morris's/plex's and davenports problems all happened elsewhere for the most part.. all things most steeler's fans will bring up if you try to downplay their criminal element

(I live next door to the biggest steeler fan on the planet i believe, i've had this arguement before)

Regardless of all this, nobody will ever know what really transpired, but it sure does look bad.

I don't think it looks bad...it looks like a witch hunt.

If intercourse happened, there would be DNA evidence galore. There wasn't enough to even test. If a sexual assault happened, it should be fairly easy to tell...yet hospital workers couldn't make that determination. And though they found perhaps something, they couldn't tell when or how it was done on a sexually active female. How is it that she can't remember if she had sex 30 minutes ago, but somehow realizes it hours later? At this point, there's no physical evidence at all that can corroborate her non-drunk account.

How is it that all the law-and-order types don't believe the two cops who didn't see anything and were part of Ben's entourage that night? How is it that we'd believe a statement that said Ben was making crude sexual remarks all night yet omits her own sexual comments, including wearing something with the initials "DTF" which stands for Down to Fuck? How is it that, by all accounts, every member of that party, including Big Ben, were reacted totally "stunned" by the accusation? How is it that the wildly inconsistent statements by her friends (including one that said the bodyguard physically dragged the girl into the bathroom) aren't being pointed out?

Did something happen in that bathroom? Who the fuck knows? Did it happen the way the supposed victim described? Looking at the physical evidence, that's highly unlikely. From the physical evidence, there's a better chance that it happened the way Ben described the incident. That's probably unlikely too in the grand scheme of things. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle - a drunken, unfulfilled, semi-sexual encounter between two 20-somethings.

As I said, at this point it's a witch hunt. And it's going to come back to bite the NFL in the ass, because some fan is going to figure out that if they can get the opposing star player in any kind of semi-compromising situation (even one that is ultimately fictitious), there's a chance that player will be raked over the coals and suspended, giving the fan's team a better chance at winning.

[thesloppy]

More detail for anybody who wants it:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html

...uhhh, I was interested, but I think I'll let someone else do the digging through 23 pages of scribbles.

[gstelmack]

Except for the Rams, I believe. My understanding is that you need actual players in order to have a criminal element.

Leonard Little.

[GrantDawg]

More detail for anybody who wants it:

Ben Roethlisberger's Bad Play - April 15, 2010 (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html)

...uhhh, I was interested, but I think I'll let someone else do the digging through 23 pages of scribbles.


ESPN did it for you. Ben Roethlisberger exposed himself to victim, she said no - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5094224)

People have been charged, heck convicted, on way less than this. Of course they weren't wealthy or played in the NFL.

[thesloppy]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger17.html

XXXXXX became upset with Roethslisberger. This was in response to a comment that Roethlisberger made when he purchased a round of shots for the girls in the VIP room. Roethlisberger stated "All my bitches, take some shots"

Well....everything else aside, I have to thank Ben for adding that to my lexicon. Unfortunate that in my case, it will likely be directed at other 40-yr-old men, and/or family members.

[Blackadar]

ESPN did it for you. Ben Roethlisberger exposed himself to victim, she said no - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5094224)

People have been charged, heck convicted, on way less than this. Of course they weren't wealthy or played in the NFL.

This is in the same statement that she claims he had sex with her despite the existence of any DNA evidence, which is pretty much impossible.

So if that's enough to get people charged or convicted, then I'm claiming that you exposed yourself to me. Now it's time for the police to come and drag you away!

[molson]

I love the new slicked-back longer hair look for Ben. It just fits all these stories about him. He's such a massive douchebag.

[RainMaker]

This is in the same statement that she claims he had sex with her despite the existence of any DNA evidence, which is pretty much impossible.

So if that's enough to get people charged or convicted, then I'm claiming that you exposed yourself to me. Now it's time for the police to come and drag you away!
Ben admitted to sexual contact with the woman. So while they didn't have DNA evidence, I doubt Ben would lie about that (and potentially incriminate himself).

And if nothing was taking place, why did his bodyguards block the door to the bathroom and pretend they didn't know what was going on? Is this normal if two people are not having sexual contact and just debating the latest health care bill?

They probably would have trouble convicting a guy who can spend millions on lawyers of this crime. And the victim probably didn't want to get dragged through the ringer of Pittsburgh fanboys destroying her life. But I still believe if it was you or me in that situation (or a black NFL star), we'd probably be charged.

And maybe it isn't sexual assault, but the whole thing sounds real bad and there is just way too much smoke around this guy to not have some fire. Ben is a sexual predator in my book.

[rowech]

Well...we have a 28 year old guy trying to get a bunch of 20 year old girls drunk to have sex with one of them. Illegal? Sure as hell is...giving 20 year old girls drinks? How is that not at least a punishment of some sort? Slime ball? Most definitely.

[thesloppy]

I gotta argue another distinction:

It's not quite correct to say they didn't have any DNA evidence, they didn't have sufficient DNA evidence.

Initial examination of the sexual assault kit submitted in this case by technicial at the GBI Crime Lab revealed the presence of male DNA.

[Blackadar]

Well...we have a 28 year old guy trying to get a bunch of 20 year old girls drunk to have sex with one of them. Illegal? Sure as hell is...giving 20 year old girls drinks? How is that not at least a punishment of some sort? Slime ball? Most definitely.

So Ben is now responsible for the girl having a fake ID??!?!?!?

[Blackadar]

I gotta argue another distinction:

It's not quite correct to say they didn't have any DNA evidence, they didn't have sufficient DNA evidence.

Sex is going to leave sufficient DNA evidence, even if you have a dick the size of Mini-Me.

She was walking around with a charm with the initials DTF - "down to fuck". I'm not sure we can assume this was a lady of high virtue, though I'm really trying to steer clear of casting aspersions.

[Matthean]

So Ben is now responsible for the girl having a fake ID??!?!?!?

A fake ID has nothing to do with it. You serve alcohol to a minor, your screwed.

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[molson]

Sex is going to leave sufficient DNA evidence, even if you have a dick the size of Mini-Me.

She was walking around with a charm with the initials DTF - "down to fuck". I'm not sure we can assume this was a lady of high virtue, though I'm really trying to steer clear of casting aspersions.

Did she allege intercourse? It sounds like he was just waving his dick around, probably brushing up against her.

[RainMaker]

Come on, he's a fucking scumbag. Just because you don't want to see Charlie Batch under center doesn't mean you have to defend sexual predators.

Fake ID is not an excuse when it comes to supplying minors with alcohol. There is often insufficient DNA evidence in rape cases. And from the reports, the charm seemed like an inside joke between her and her friends. But I guess blaming the victim is common. Well if she didn't want to get raped, why did she wear a short skirt?

[RainMaker]

Did she allege intercourse? It sounds like he was just waving his dick around, probably brushing up against her.
She said they had sex. Ben said they had sexual contact. The only one that seems to not think they had sex is Blackadar.

[Blackadar]

Did she allege intercourse? It sounds like he was just waving his dick around, probably brushing up against her.

Yes, she claimed they had intercourse. Of course, that was on her 3rd version of the events.

[thesloppy]

Come on, he's a fucking scumbag. Just because you don't want to see Charlie Batch under center doesn't mean you have to defend sexual predators.

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2001/12/21/2001-12-21_dedric__batch__2_others_accu.html

(backs away slowly, whistling)

[Blackadar]

Come on, he's a fucking scumbag. Just because you don't want to see Charlie Batch under center doesn't mean you have to defend sexual predators.

Fake ID is not an excuse when it comes to supplying minors with alcohol. There is often insufficient DNA evidence in rape cases. And from the reports, the charm seemed like an inside joke between her and her friends. But I guess blaming the victim is common. Well if she didn't want to get raped, why did she wear a short skirt?

And you fuck goats. Since I wrote it, it must be true. After all, that's what you seem to believe.

Probable cause is defined as "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime". Please note this is a much lower standard than the one to convict, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. Now if the DA - someone who had access to more facts than ANY of us - says that there is not a reasonable belief that Ben committed a crime, when why would you?
Or is now the DA in on it?

As for the buying drinks, if Ben is buying alcohol in the bar, isn't it the bar's responsibility to ensure she's of legal age? Since when did a patron of the bar become responsible for checking the ID of the other patrons? Frankly, it's statements like that that show you're pretty much off your rocker on this one.

FYI, Dennis Dixon is the #2 now.

[Blackadar]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2001/12/21/2001-12-21_dedric__batch__2_others_accu.html

(backs away slowly, whistling)

I was thinking more along the lines of Tawana Brawley rape allegations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations)

[thesloppy]

As for the buying drinks, if Ben is buying alcohol in the bar, isn't it the bar's responsibility to ensure she's of legal age? Since when did a patron of the bar become responsible for checking the ID of the other patrons? Frankly, it's statements like that that show you're pretty much off your rocker on this one.

Again (for like the fourth time), the DA also said Ben was pretty much guilty of supplying alcohol to a minor, but that it would still require the victim's testimony to convict, and would also involve prosecuting her for underage drinking, so they didn't prosecute either crime (and that his office doesn't handle misdemeanors anyway).

Using the exact logic you applied earlier in your post, why wouldn't you believe the DA if he implied it was Ben's responsibility, since he's obviously a little closer to the case than you or I? Is the DA off his rocker?

[molson]

And you fuck goats. Since I wrote it, it must be true. After all, that's what you seem to believe.

Probable cause is defined as "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime". Please note this is a much lower standard than the one to convict, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. Now if the DA - someone who had access to more facts than ANY of us - says that there is not a reasonable belief that Ben committed a crime, when why would you?
Or is now the DA in on it?


Eyewitness testimony is usually enough for probable cause (and you have more than even that here). But prosecutors still have discretion, and this girl didn't want to go through with it, it would have been a media circus, and it probably would have resulted in an acquittal, so I can definitely understand why they let it go. Depending on the jurisdiction, prosecutors decline to prosecute up to 70-80% of charges referred to them. This one is an easy one to pass on.

Or in other words, a prosecutor's decision not to prosecute doesn't always say much about guilt, or the strength of the evidence.

And sure, all we know for sure is that he was trying to get 20-year olds drunk, and he got one of them into a small room, had his posse guard the entrance, there was some kind of sex act, and the girl was upset about it afterwards. He's certainly a douchebag. And the odds of someone like that crossing some boundaries with women from time to time is pretty close to 100%.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is the DA off his rocker?

Having watched this guy up close for quite a few years we might not want to go down that road.

[RainMaker]

And you fuck goats. Since I wrote it, it must be true. After all, that's what you seem to believe.
If I did, unlike Ben, my sexual conquests of this divine beast would be consensual.

Probable cause is defined as "a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime". Please note this is a much lower standard than the one to convict, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. Now if the DA - someone who had access to more facts than ANY of us - says that there is not a reasonable belief that Ben committed a crime, when why would you?
Or is now the DA in on it?
Actually the DA said one of the biggest reasons for not pressing charges is that the girl and her family did not want to go further with charges. Can't blame her when Steelers fans drop their morals to defame a 20-year old girl so they can have a shot at the playoffs.

The DA didn't think they could win. That has nothing to do with belief. Many people are not charged simply because the DA does not believe they can win with the evidence they have.

As for the buying drinks, if Ben is buying alcohol in the bar, isn't it the bar's responsibility to ensure she's of legal age? Since when did a patron of the bar become responsible for checking the ID of the other patrons? Frankly, it's statements like that that show you're pretty much off your rocker on this one.
I'm just stating the law. Not sure how that can put me off my rocker. As someone who worked at a bar, fake IDs are no excuse for serving alcohol to a minor. Thinking someone is 21 is not excuse for serving alcohol to a minor. Even being told the person is 21 is not an excuse to serve alcohol to a minor. This was a college bar I worked at and they would do busts and they would right tickets to students in booths who had minors with them that were drinking (the person 21 or over would buy a pitcher and bring it back for everyone to drink). The bar frequently got fined for serving minors even if they had a great fake ID.

The law may suck and it may be unfair, but it's the law. Assumption is not an excuse for breaking it in this case.

[JediKooter]

I heard they are going to make him cut off his mullet.

[Blackadar]

If I did, unlike Ben, my sexual conquests of this divine beast would be consensual.

Your bias is noted.

Actually the DA said one of the biggest reasons for not pressing charges is that the girl and her family did not want to go further with charges. Can't blame her when Steelers fans drop their morals to defame a 20-year old girl so they can have a shot at the playoffs.

The DA didn't think they could win. That has nothing to do with belief. Many people are not charged simply because the DA does not believe they can win with the evidence they have.

The girl's wishes are entirely irrelevant to this case. If the DA had evidence, he's compelled to press charges. That's his duty as DA.

It's not just that the DA didn't think he could win. He said multiple times that he did not have probable cause. There's a big fucking difference between the two. Probable cause is defined as "there is a reasonable belief that the person committed a crime". That's the very definition of the term. So when he says he doesn't have probable cause, it precisely means that he does not have a reasonable belief that Ben committed the crime. In other words, he couldn't even legally charge him with the crime, never mind actually win the case.

As for defaming the girl, please point to something that I've posted about her that's inaccurate. If you really want to get down to brass tacks, we have a girl that stalked Ben from bar to bar, got hammered, has no idea what happened and then later made a false claim. If there was something tangible to her claim, then I'd be all for running Ben out of town. But if you get your head out of your ass and actually look at the facts, the statements and the physical evidence, you'd quickly realize why no charges were brought.

But I guess it's just easier to be part of the ignorant lynch mob and yell "off with his head". It's probably more fun too, but I don't believe on stringing people up based on false rumors and innuendo.

[molson]

If the DA had evidence, he's compelled to press charges. That's his duty as DA.



That's not true at all.