Winning with the 4-4-2........

[Havok]

(This is also posted on the USA forums in hattrick)

Well, i train defenders and i "was" using a 4-5-1 in league games and a 5-4-1 in friendlys so i could get 9 trainee's.

I was doing pretty well in league games with the 4-5-1, but as the rest of my divison got better, it became less effective. The big advantage a 3-5-2 has over a 4-5-1 is that the forwards also add to the winger attack rating some. In the 4-5-1 the "lone" forward doesn't. So i tryed a 3-5-2 last week and im a much, much more balanced team now. Good attack, defense and midfield. But its tough loseing that extra defender trainee. Since defenders take so freaking long to pop, you really need that extra few defenders other postions don't get.

So latley i've been thinking of trying the 4-4-2, but is it viable?? I can't find a single first place team in any divison (above divison V) that runs a 4-4-2. I know theres gotta be someone out there that runs a 4-4-2 and whips up on 3-5-2's and 3-4-3's!! :)

I really wanna have 9 trainee's, but i also really wanna win. Lemme know what you guys think of the 4-4-2. I'd really like to hear what billy,apoc,TP,DK,lone star and all the other Veterens HT'ers think.

[BillyNYC]

4-5-1's difficult because it creates so little attack. I'd say you could potentially compensate if you had 1 GREAT striker (versus two good ones), but obviously those are hard to come by.

The problem with 4-4-2 is obviously you lose some possession (whether you replace the inner mid or wing) and potentially one whole side of the attack (if you replace wing).

As with the 4-5-1, it's doable if you can compensate for what's missing. When I use 4-4-2 (when a mid is injured, or when I'm outclassed and playing for a 0-0 draw), I always use 1 wing and 3 inners. I tend to be a proponent of an asymmetic midfield anyway (one wing's offensive; the other's towards middle), so I take out the one towards middle.

Reason being that my attack is generally weak, compared to ML defenses. So to have 2 "ok side attacks" wouldn't nearly be as effective as having a 1 great side attack and 1 nonexistant one. (I also have a good wingback, so he plays offensive on the same side as the offensive wing, what I call "stacking the side"). The chances of my excellent side attack scoring on a world class side D aren't much better than if I had a disastrous side attack....so I "surrender" that side for more midfield. The same can be done in a 4-4-2.

In essense, what I'm saying is it depends on your series. If it's a midfield heavy series, you might have more problems going 4-4-2 and losing a little midfield. Maybe buying a better striker and wings might compensate on the attack end of a 4-5-1. If you can get by midfieldwise (or upgrade THERE), 4-4-2's very viable I think.

I don't train D and never have, so I'm not the best to comment (apoc?). But look at what you have and your opponents before making any decisions on it.

[Havok]

My divison isn't very Midfield heavy. I have the second best midfield and i don't see that changing anytime soon. I guess its all a matter of who i play.

I guess the 2 games of the year that i play against a better midfield i could play a 3-5-2 with a winger towards the middle. Or i could just surprise them and play a 4-4-2 with a winger towards the middle and just hope the central attack scores alot :)

I dont know what the hell im gonna do.... i really wanna have 9 trainee's, but i also really wanna win!

[NAIWF]

I really think you're stressing out over nothing. The Green Mages are the only team in your series that's better than you are and they should be promoting. The rest of the series will only fall further behind you with your new additions and good training regimen. The 9th trainee would be your most marginal guy anyway so do what's best for you in the long run. Forgoing the experience in the 3-5-2 for an extra season of training a 9th defender just doesn't seem to make too much sense given the moves you've made recently.

[daedalus]

At our level, I think you can live with a 4-4-2. I finished tied for 2nd last season (losing out on differential) last season with a straight 4-4-2. Although, Billy's asymmetric 4-4-2 will probably work better in Hattrick. (I suppose a symmetric toward-middle 4-4-2 could work as well, with a good enough playmaking winger.)

[Havok]

Yeah i hear ya NAIWF.... but the reason im giving it so much thought is this.......

Say i grab another high inadequate trainee now and run a 4-4-2 and a 5-4-1 in friendly's.

Next season im either gonna have to deal with the Green mages again since they will probally have to play a 5th place divison IV team to promote this season and they'll probally lose that game. Or a tough divison IV team. So i probally won't be auto-promoting next season either.

My best hope at promoting is 2 seasons from now. When i do auto-promote i'll switch to a 3-5-2 and sell my best defender (Which will probally be a Formidable, maybe outstanding). I then can go into divison IV with 8 defenders, most of them 20 year old Excellent and formidables. Plus the 1.5 million for selling a formidable.

lol.... im thinking to far ahead i know, anything can happen. Especially with how active i am on the transfer market. I'll probally just stick with the 3-5-2 in league games. Just wanted to know what you guys think.

[NYFAN]

I'm in #1 in my Div 5 league, and I run the 4-4-2. I think my talent just suits it better. I have 4 defenders along with a solid goalie, and the acquisition of that 4th key defender just solidified my position of keeping the 4-4-2. Both my wingers play "offensive" and my two IM play normal. It may not be popular, and if I promote I may need to consider changing the strategy by getting a better midfielder. But the way I see it is that my big 4 defensively can hang with anyone at my level if they're all back there. My midfield ratings are normally poor, or worse, but my team's strength lies in ball control, and I typically still dominate control with at least 60-80% each half. I think if you have the talent to do it, why not.

[NAIWF]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think you dominating with the 4-4-2 says more about the lack of quality opponents in your series than your relative strength. If you were typically putting up poor or worse midfields in my series you'd get smoked pretty regularly by the inadequates or passables the top 4 teams are putting up, and you'd be getting 20-40% possession instead of just allowing that. Just my .02.

[lytic]

You'll need at least a passable midfield to stay in most Div IV series. Keep that in mind...

[Havok]

i wanna be in NYfan's divison :)

anyway i wouldn't think of running a 4-4-2 with 2 wingers in my divison unless i had a couple of Outstanding midfielders.

But with 3 IM's its definetly doable. My starting middy's will be 2 Solid middy's and one passable with passable passing. Plus a back-up solid middy incase form slips. So i should still put up a weak midfield on the road and inadequate at home.

With the right personal any formation is possible in divison's V and IV. But once you get to Divison III and up you won't last very long unless you run a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3.

Just look at the mean losers :)

[NYFAN]

Hmm, well thanks for the comments. I think I may just switch then for my last few games, experiment a little, and hope it pays off in the qualifier.

[NYFAN]

Well, just an update, I got a few "confused people on the field updates" but by the end of the first half I had an about normal 85% possession. What was not normal though, was a commanding 5-0 lead. That's a lot of goals for me, and practically unheard of for one half.