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dawgfan
07-28-2003, 09:38 PM
I've returned from my trip to St. Louis and thought I'd share some of my experiences.

To recap, my GF finished her doctorate at the U of Washington and took a faculty position in St. Louis starting next month (no positions were open in her field in the Pacific NW unfortunately). I volunteered to drive out with her (and her cats) and help her apartment-hunt and do some sight-seeing over 2 weeks, starting Monday the 14th.

Day 1 (Monday): We got a late start out of Seattle, leaving town around noon. We also had to make a brief stop in Leavenworth so she could say goodbye to a friend, so we lost a little bit of time there. Still, we made it to Coeur d'Alene, ID by 9PM. Fairly uneventful drive - I've been along all these bits of road before (Hwy 2 over Stevens Pass to Leavenworth, down along the Columbia River from Wenatchee to George/I-90, I-90 east through Spokane and Idaho). For those that are unfamiliar with the territory, Hwy 2 is a mostly 2-lane highway over one of the higher passes in the Cascades. Lots of little towns on the western approach, then typical western Cascade forests leading up and over the pass (one of the 2 best ski areas in the state is at the crest of the pass). The eastern descent over the pass features great views of the Wenatchee river and the eastern Cascade forests down in to Leavenworth, a little town in central Washington that has made itself into a tourist spot by transforming all the buildings into Bavarian-styled facades. Cheesy, but still a pretty town. From Leavenworth to Wenatchee, it gets more into typical central Washington orchard territory with many apple, pear and cherry orchards. From Wenatchee down to George the highway mostly follows the Columbia through some interesting to spectacular geography where the river has cut a gorge in the prehistoric eastern Washington lava flows. From George to Spokane along I-90 things are more arid and plain, with wheat fields the predominant feature. By the time you reach Coeur d'Alene in Idaho, not far from the Washington border, the western slopes of the Rockies start and the terrain gets hilly and forested - very scenic.

Day 2 (Tuesday): A moderately late start as we sleep-in a bit. Leaving Coeur d'Alene you pass Lake Coeur d'Alene, a very scenic view from the interstate and some of the prettiest driving of the trip. The first of what proves to be many instances of highway repair/reconstruction on the trip is encountered. We pass quickly into Montana, with stretches of climbing alternating with many flat areas. We pass through Missoula which is nicely tucked in at the base of some tall hills/low mountains and on through Butte. Not far outside of Butte we cross the Continental Divide. I had forgotten how little warning there is in the signage for this - it's frankly a bit anti-climactic since you don't climb particularly far outside of Butte to get here. From here the terrain becomes more arid and flatter, though there is still much in the way of interesting rock formations and exposures. We press-on through Bozeman and Billings and branch-off onto I-25 and down into Wyoming. Near dusk we spot a black bear ambling along not far from the highway along a gently sloping field. We stop for the night in Sheridan, Wyoming.

Day 3 (Wednesday): We get an earlier start today, with the intention of making a big push so we can reach St. Louis by evening tomorrow. Wyoming is much as I'd remembered it, with some fascinating geology - long stretches of flat mesas ending in abrupt cliff edges and distant clusters of Rocky Mountain peaks. More highway construction/repair. We saw our first instances of impressive thunderstorms in the distant mountain-tops. By the early afternoon we've crossed into Colorado, and the terrain gradually becomes more populated and developed into a mixture of farmland and the occasional industrial parks. Approaching Denver things get more urban-looking. Unfortunately our view of the Rockies here is mostly obscured by clouds, and we hit Denver in early rush-hour around 4PM. We head east on I-70 here and suffer a bit of slow driving going through Aurora. As we approach the Kansas border the terrain returns to a more farmland-like setting. We press on in Kansas after sundown and stop for the night in Hays around 10:30PM. We managed to get one of the last available hotel rooms for the night. It is getting very warm now, with temperatures still in the high 80's in the early evening.

Day 4 (Thursday): The last stretch. We made good time the previous day and figure we'll hit St. Louis about 8PM, factoring in a stop in Kansas City for lunch. Kansas is a bit more hilly and geologically interesting than I'd expected, especially near the eastern border around Lawrence - lots of trees and rolling hills. More highway construction/repair - I've now seen pretty much every stage of interstate construction now, from simple resurfacing all the way to complete rebuild from scratch. We hit Kansas City around 3:30 and on a recommendation from friends that are KC ex-pats we stop at a Gate's BBQ. It lives up to their hype, and I highly recommend it to anyone visiting the area. We resume the trip, hurtling past an overwhelming number of billboards lining the interstate advertising cheap beer, cheap cigarettes, huge selections of fireworks and plenty of gentleman's clubs. Missouri is more hilly than Kansas, much more populated (at least along the highway) and with more trees. We roll into the outskirts of St. Louis at 8:30PM and check-in to our Extended StayAmerica room near the Airport on Lindbergh. It was very hot on this stretch, with mid-day temperatures reaching 105 degrees F.

Days 5-7 (Friday-Sunday): We start the apartment-search - the GF has a few leads from internet sites she'd checked before we left, and we pick up some more from the St. Louis Dispatch, the Riverfront Times and a local Apartment Guide. We also buy a street guide on my advice that turns out to be a huge help over a standard fold-out map. I'm amazed at the number of little townships and cities extending west from the borders of the city. Day 5 is spent looking around places northwest of the city, near the airport. Her job has 2 sites, one at the school where she'll be about 20% of the time and one at a clinic near the airport where she'll spend 80% of her time. Day 6 we expand the search west and south, finding some nice aparment complexes in the Olivette/Vinita Park areas. On Day 7 we look further west in the Creve Coeur area and in the Forest Park area of St. Louis near the school. Strong candidates are found in both spots, with an initial preference for a complex in Creve Coeur with a woodsy setting. Eventually though, the GF decides that despite the higher cost and the commute out to the clinic, she really likes the location of a spot 2 blocks from her school in a very nice, restored old Hotel near Forest Park. It's in a little neighborhood called the Central West End, filled with restaurants, coffee shops and little stores in walking distance. It doesn't have a pool like all the suburban apartment complexes (is this a local requirement?) but it's a cool old building with all new interiors. Temperatures are in the high-80's to mid-90's with high humidity, with a spectacular thunderstorm on Friday (day 5). Upon recommendation from the friends formerly from Kansas, we try Imo's Pizza - good stuff. Apparently 'St. Louis-style' pizza features very thin crusts with square cuts instead of pie cuts.

Day 8 (Monday): After checking out a few more spots that weren't available to see on Sunday (yesterday) we turn in her application for the place in the Central West End at the old renovated hotel in the early afternoon. We then meander around Forest Park and stop at the Jewel Box, an old building left over from the St. Louis World's Fair (I think). It's a pretty atrium featuring a selection of flowers and trees inside and a very nice lily pond outside. Fairly exhausted from the trip and the apartment search we chill-out at the hotel the rest of the day. Still hot and muggy.

Day 9 (Tuesday): We can't start moving in until Wednesday at the earliest, so we visit her school in the morning and then hit the zoo for the afternoon. With both of us being completists who take our time at each exhibit, we only get about halfway through by the time the zoo closes. Hot and muggy, with a brief rain shower in the early evening that drives many of the animals into their enclosures. We get the message that afternoon that her application has been approved and we can start moving in tomorrow (Wednesday). We decide to take a drive into town to look at the waterfront and the arch. It's dusk, so we don't stop and visit, but we drive around the downtown area and get a look at the Edward Jones Dome, Busch Stadium, the Arch and the riverfront.

Day 10 (Wednesday): Moving day. The moving company is scheduled to be there between 8-10AM so we get-up early to beat them there. They arrive around 8:45 and are finished by around 10:30. Complications with the payments linger for another couple of hours though, as they won't take out-of-state checks, won't process her Mastercard and she can't get a local bank to open an account for her and cut a cashier's check. It turns out she's exceeded her credit limit on her card, but after a phone call to the issuing bank they raise it and the moving company is able to process the payment. The GF is emotionally drained from the process though. She sends me out to visit the local internet cafe/coffeehouse as she starts unpacking and organizing (I don't complain).

Day 11 (Thursday): Her stuff is partially unpacked, but we decide to start the full-blown sight-seeing process anyway. We visit the Botanical Gardens on Henry Shaw's birthday, meaning entry is free. Despite spending over 4 hours there, we still only see about half of the grounds. The lily ponds there are particularly impressive, and the whole place is very well-done. It's still very hot though and we both are getting worn-out walking around in the heat and sunlight. We rally enough to visit University City and have a nice dinner and walk up and down Delmar Blvd. checking out the neighborhood.

Day 12 (Friday): We vow to be more proactive today in keeping hydrated and taking breaks as we return to the zoo to see the things we missed the first time, including the penguin/puffin exhibit. Overall, we're both quite impressed with the zoo, although parking is a pain. Still very hot and muggy. Our BBQ hunt for St. Louis is a mixed bag - we try Sweet Jo Mamas in downtown for lunch and are unimpressed, and then go to the local chain Bandana's out in Berkely for dinner - better, but not up to the standard set by Gate's in KC.

Day 13 (Saturday): My last full day in St. Louis. We visit the Art Museum - some good French Impressionist works, American stuff from the 19th and 20th centuries, some good modern works including some Picasso, a Chagall and a Pollack; also a decent Asian collection. We run out of time while touring the furniture and household objects in the bottom floor. After a nice dinner at a good pizza spot in Clayton, we head out for the Arch. Unfortunately, we discover the tram ride is sold-out for the evening. After some brief pouting, we make a quick tour of the Westward Expansion Museum and then watch the sunset reflect off the Arch. We dip our toes in the Mississippi before returning home for the evening.

Day 14 (Sunday): The parting. I have an early (7AM) flight out of St. Louis/Lambert Airport. The GF and I have a sad but romantic parting at the security gates as I wait as long as possible before proceeding. The return flight pauses in Denver where I switch planes to continue on to Seattle. The mid-80's weather seems especially nice after a week in the midwest heat and humidity.

MizzouRah
07-28-2003, 10:06 PM
we try Imo's Pizza - good stuff. Apparently 'St. Louis-style' pizza features very thin crusts with square cuts instead of pie cuts.


Yummy! Peronis (sp?) is very similar, but better. Right off of Lindberg, not far from the airport.

Super Smokers has decent BBQ, at least better than Bandana's, IMO. :)

Hot and Muggy, that's St. Louis. Would have been nice if you could have went to Six Flags in Eureka, we went today and had a great time. The new ride, the Exclaibur was incredible. Maybe next time.....


Todd

Fonzie
07-28-2003, 10:29 PM
dawgfan-

If you don't mind my asking, what did your GF get her doctorate in?

dawgfan
07-28-2003, 10:47 PM
Fonz - she has a doctorate in Pharmacy. Or, as I like to think of it, she's a legal drug dealer :)

Todd - there were definitely a lot of things we didn't get to this time around, but it's very likely I'll be back for more visits. She's not a big amusement park person, but I love roller-coasters and I'd like to get out to Six Flags to sample the selection there. I was also a bit bummed I couldn't work in a Cards game (the GF isn't a baseball fan either) - maybe next spring though. I'll also make a mental note to try the Italian food, visit KC Masterpiece and Super Smokers, and finally get a trip up the damn Arch tram.

Blade6119
07-29-2003, 02:20 AM
oh man....i still remember the good ol days of living in st. louis...Pasta House...mmmmm.

Fonzie
07-29-2003, 02:33 AM
Good for her! I can certainly relate to the relief she must feel, as I just finished a doctorate myself (in Psychology). Please pass along my congratulations to her. And, you know, if she has any free samples of interesting pills laying around... ;)

As for St. Louis, it struck me as a fun town - as you already noted, there's a lot of interesting things to do, more than one might expect for a city of it's size. And the sports scene is pretty crazy. If your GF is not a baseball fan yet, she'll either become one or she'll be driven insane by the Cardinals fanatics.

Oh, and if/when you get to Six Flags, give the "Screamin' Eagle" a ride. It's one of those giant, old, wood-framed roller-coasters, the kind they don't really make anymore. Assuming they're still operating it, of course. I haven't been on it since I was about 8, but I recall loving the crap out of it.

sooner333
07-29-2003, 04:15 AM
I just completed pretty much Day 2-4 of your drive, except we went south at what would have been Salina (except my dad wanted to see the town he lived from 4-7 years old, Lyons, Kansas, which allowed us to see a wedding reception happening at a Best Western in Great Bend, Kansas). Anyway, just felt like agreeing on the construction being a bitch the whole way. Especially in Montana where it seemed to be happening everywhere and getting pinched to one lane behind some slow truck.

What's the deal with all the little casinos in Montana anyway? They're all small and have video poker. Did you see the statue on top of the mountain leaving Butte? It's pretty big, and after wondering for about an hour of what it could have been, we looked in the AAA book to find out its the Virgin Mary and its pretty darn tall. My parents said Livingston, MT is a pretty cool town as well...they stayed there on the way into North Idaho.

Sheridan, WY is where we ate dinner that night at their local Taco Bell, and we made it all the way to Casper that night. Wyoming and Montana...the biggest city we hit was less than 100,000...sparsely populated to say the least. We hit up the outlet of all things outdoors (Sierra Trading Post or something like that), so I could get some quality winter clothes for college up in the Windy City that you just can't get in Norman, Oklahoma (or anywhere in Oklahoma for that matter).

Kansas is perhaps the most boring part of the drive, but if you took a human geography course like I did last year, you would find the seemingly uniform space between towns and their relative sizes interesting. I guess its all because of wheat farming, which there is plenty of. Lyons was fun on the third day because we got to go on a hunt for the house my dad lived in 50 years ago, which was really small, old, and shared a garage. Quite frankly, I'm really surprised we found it, because the railroad tracks behind his house are gone. He figured it out by the footbridge he had to cross along the highway to get to school. Call me odd, but I'm one of those guys who would like road trips better if spent off the interstate, and on the U.S. highways to check out all the small towns. My mom and sister were not too pleased with our trek off of I-70 and into the likes of Great Bend, Lyons, and Chase, Kansas.

Okay, I'm done rambling about my second to last family road trip (the last will be taking me to college, which should end up being more emotional, and boring since I've now done the OKC-Chicago thing too many times...still trying to figure out what the huge building is in Normal, IL...I guess I could google it, but that takes the mystery out of it). Okay, I'm really done now.

Hawglaw
07-29-2003, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by MizzouRah
Yummy! Peronis (sp?) is very similar, but better. Right off of Lindberg, not far from the airport.

Super Smokers has decent BBQ, at least better than Bandana's, IMO. :)

Hot and Muggy, that's St. Louis. Would have been nice if you could have went to Six Flags in Eureka, we went today and had a great time. The new ride, the Exclaibur was incredible. Maybe next time.....


Todd

Todd is dead on.... Super Smokers is much better than Bandana's. As far as the pizza place in Clayton, I am guessing it was Il Vicino? Great place... I work about 6 or so blocks from it and eat there at least once a week.

I hope you enjoyed our fair city. Most of the downtown area is right in the middle of a big transition (construction of hunderds of loft apartments)....so it is a mess. Your GF will like the CWE.... it's one of my favorite neighborhoods in STL.

dawgfan
07-29-2003, 01:47 PM
Il Vicino it was. I liked the St. Louis style of Imo's, but Il Vicino is more my idea of the perfect pizza. I'll have to try Super Smokers next time I visit.

I enjoyed exploring St. Louis a lot. One thing that really struck me, and WSUCougar will probably know just where I'm coming from on this, was the architecture. I was blown away at all the older, mostly brick houses and brownstones. I don't know how many of you have visited the West Coast and observed the typical housing out here, but it's very different from what I saw in St. Louis. Everywhere you look there are these classic homes that you very rarely see out on the West Coast.

Another thing that was interesting was how patchwork the makeup of the city and suberbs were in terms of condition. You'd be driving through what looked like a very well-off section and then 2 blocks later you'd be in what was obviously a very poor section.

The racial makeup is very different as well. I'd been told and have read things that talk about how lilly-white Seattle is before, but I didn't really understand where these people were coming from. Based on the percentages, Seattle seemed about average, though our Asian population is probably a bit higher than in many places. St. Louis however is much different. I looked up the census figures and in the city limits, blacks are actually a slight majority. My observation of the suburbs is that they're probably not much different. The GF has been told that race relations are relatively good here compared to other places - I would imagine much of this is due to the population breakdown.

I had a good time visiting, and I'll look forward to coming back.

Hawglaw
07-29-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by dawgfan
Il Vicino it was. I liked the St. Louis style of Imo's, but Il Vicino is more my idea of the perfect pizza. I'll have to try Super Smokers next time I visit.

I enjoyed exploring St. Louis a lot. One thing that really struck me, and WSUCougar will probably know just where I'm coming from on this, was the architecture. I was blown away at all the older, mostly brick houses and brownstones. I don't know how many of you have visited the West Coast and observed the typical housing out here, but it's very different from what I saw in St. Louis. Everywhere you look there are these classic homes that you very rarely see out on the West Coast.

Another thing that was interesting was how patchwork the makeup of the city and suberbs were in terms of condition. You'd be driving through what looked like a very well-off section and then 2 blocks later you'd be in what was obviously a very poor section.

The racial makeup is very different as well. I'd been told and have read things that talk about how lilly-white Seattle is before, but I didn't really understand where these people were coming from. Based on the percentages, Seattle seemed about average, though our Asian population is probably a bit higher than in many places. St. Louis however is much different. I looked up the census figures and in the city limits, blacks are actually a slight majority. My observation of the suburbs is that they're probably not much different. The GF has been told that race relations are relatively good here compared to other places - I would imagine much of this is due to the population breakdown.

I had a good time visiting, and I'll look forward to coming back.

The suburban population is much different depending on where you are located. For instance, most (but not all) of the older suburbs in North County are probably African-Amercian majority. Florissant and Bridgeton are the exceptions. The further west you go in North County, the whiter it gets. Once you cross the MO River and get into St. Charles County (where I live), it is lily white. I didn't move to St. Charles because of the racial makeup, but because it has the bulk of the new housing stock and the cost of living is low.

When you hit the Mid County, West County, and South County suburbs, they are mostly white. University City is an exception as it is basically a complete mix. The westward migration in St. Louis is interesting in that it basically was white Protestants and Catholics moving west first..... the Jews moving west, filling in spaces the White Protestants and Catholics left, then African-Americans began moving west, filling in spaces left by the Jews. Now, there are Eastern Europeans filling in spaces left by African-Americans. For instance, the Bevo Mill neighborhood used to be German, then became African-American, now is Bosnian. It brings about a strange mix that is uniquely St. Louis.