I was out of debt for 45 minutes, until I found God...

[FrogMan]

Yep, I had just pulled my team out of the jaws of debt with three pretty good sales, when I found God... The sales included a recent youth pull who, at 19yo had passable passing and I trained him up to passable playmaking. Value of sale: 100,000 U$. Not bad for a player I wasn't gonna train any higher. The second player was another trainee, who had just popped to solid playmaking, at 18 years of age. I bought him late last season for only 16k U$, put him on the market for 125k and got one bid on him. Not a very high bid, but had atrocious secondaries and was currently in weak for. Never got a better rating than 2 stars. He was valued at 47k U$, so to let him go for 125k didn't break my heart. The third player was a middle of the road 20yo passable denfender that I once bought 21k U$ in the middle of last season. He had only wretched experience but served me well last season . However, with the more experienced defenders I had bought in the offseason, he was now 6th on the depth chart at defense. Asking price was set to 20k, hoping to get something close to what I paid (with or without the 10% for the agent). This player got a bid from a newbie at 20k, then a second bid by the same newbie, this time at 30k (remember that newbieness thread a week ago :) ) to finally end at 31k.

Debt before sales: 16 355 U$ (I was almost out of debt)
money in net of all agent fees: 232 400 U$ :D
Money in the bank after transactions: 216 045 U$ :D

You're now asking yourselves: "Nice sotry, now what's God got to do in all of this??"

I had more than 215k in the bank, I wasn't gonna let it sleep there. My team is still not good enough to wait on money, and besides, I'm a transfer market addict (Hi Qwikshot!), so... I went shopping. I'm pretty much set with my inner midfielders, as I'm training playmaking and I am pulling solid midfields with the staff I have on hand. I am just assuming this is only gonna get better with time. I knew I could use help at forward, or at defense. Right now I'm getting better defense ratings than attack ratings, especially central attack, so I went after a forward. I started by scouting the Sverige market, searching for a forward with at least solid scoring and passable passing. That's when I came upon God, Michael God :D

Here's THE dude:


Michael God (5584713)
28 years, wretched form, healthy
A nasty fellow who is balanced and honest.
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities.

Speciality: Technical

Nationality: Sverige
Assessed value: 340 000 C$ (that is 170 000 U$)
Wage: 7 680 C$/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: Pintendre Pittbulls
Warnings: 1

Stamina: excellent Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: solid
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: inadequate


I paid 232k U$ for this dude, did I outrageously overpay? I know all about the wretched form and the fact that he's nasty. About his nastiness, I was worried, but he didn't drop my team spirit, so that's one out of the way since he's only got weak leadership. About teh form, I'm simply gambling that with the randomness of form updates, he'll go up soon and can really help me with my central attack. Even at weak or inadequate form, he could be something special in the middle of my attack :) And I had that money sort of sitting there (for a whole 45 minutes!!!), what was I gonna do, let it sleep?? :)

Anyway, I'm back to what I was at the beginning of the day, debtwise, but I got a new weapon for my offense... Anybody outside of us who doesn't think that a good training program is the way to go doesn't know what he's missing ;)

What's your opinion on this fellow?? How many stars do you think he could pull with inadequate or passable form? (I know stars are evil btw) Weird enough, his best performance ever is 2.5 stars, as an INNER MID!!!

FM

[KevinNU7]

I'd say he's a 3-3.5 star with solid form. I think it's a great buy if you had the excess cash.

[terpkristin]

Nice grab, FM!
HT wouldn't be HT if its players weren't either always in debt or super-rich. Welcome back to the club of those of us in the red ;)

~terpk

[vex]

Actually, he did drop your team spirit, just not down to the next level.

[vex]

Dola

And he's probably a 3 star.

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by vexroid
Actually, he did drop your team spirit, just not down to the next level.

I always thought that you get a message when a player get a bad start and dropped your team spirit no natter if it dropped a whole level or not, because everytime I'd get the bad start message, I would go see my team spirit level, and many times, it had not dropped a full level...

What I mean is that if I didn't get a message, so I have to assume that the player got along well and didn't have any impact on my team spirit...

FM

[NAIWF]

I think you may have overpaid only in the sense that his weekly wage is INSANELY high at $3,840 US weekly. By comparison, my solid scoring/weak passer only makes $1,320. That's almost triple, which is kind of staggering. But if you can afford him, more power to you :)

[DukeRulesMAB]

FrogMan - You're right. If there's any TS effect, it will show up on your "The Club" screen.

[damnMikeBrown]

If God be with us, who can stad against us?

[NAIWF]

I didn't realize he was in wretched form at the time. If you can get him up to at least inad, then I think he's worth it. He might be one of those guys who always has low form though. I'm not quite sold on him now :(

[Bee]

I actually picked up a guy under similar circumstances late last season. He wasn't quite the stud you got, but he had passable scoring and solid passing and had wretched form. His value was around $100K US and I got him for $47K. He is now at passable/solid form and putting up 3 stars a game for me (his value is now around $150K). He just needed playing time, hopefully the guy you got just needs the same kinda loving. :D

BTW, I figure if he gets up to passable form he'll be putting up 3 1/2 stars. I think it was a good buy.

[-Panther]

personally I think you overpaid, but only in the sense that he's in wretched form. you paid weak-inad form price for him.

stars he capable of:

wretched: 2
inad: 2.5-3
passable: 3 (maybe 3.5)
solid+: 3.5

his poor XP 'could' get him 3.5 in passable form. If his form recovers and stays normal, weak-solid regularly NOT lower, then he's a great pickup. just hope he don't catch many injuries. Why was his form that low? How long since he last played?

[The Afoci]

Yeah, the fact that he is in wretched form makes him useless for a few weeks, assuming he goes up 1 to 2 levels a week. But you just purchased God. That is one hell of an investment.

[thealmighty]

"...until I found God..."

I am not THAT hard to find, for those that are truly searching. :D

[Alf]

I would just be worried about his salary that is being increased due to several semi_high secondaries. Apart from that, if you have the cash !!

[FrogMan]

Thanks everyone for your comments and your evaluation of possible performance (stars).

I'll address some of the concerns regarding Mr God, and how I see it...

wretched form
I sincerely don'T know how he got his wretched form since he seems to have played at least once a week in the last three to 4 weeks. The way I see it, form is purely random, with some impact from how many assistant coaches you have on staff, and your training level raising the probability of a form increase (or lowering the probability of form decease). That being said, I train at 100% with 8 assistant coaches (and 2 keeper coaches) and I have never seen a player on my team stay at weak or below for a long period of time when he was playing regularly. I had two players who dropped to wretched, but that was after I kept them off the field for 2 or 3 weeks in a span of 4 or 5 weeks... I know I'm gambling, but my point of view is it can only go up from here. I also don't believe in guys with shitty form forever, I mean I think it's all random and it will come back up...

I overpaid
This I can't comment, this is the first time I pay more than 200k for a player, keepers included, and he is right now, even with wretched form, the highest valued player on my team, apart from my solid keeper. -Panther seems to know forward prices as I think he trains forward (seeing how he was able to predict stars level like that), so I'd have to believe him when he says I paid for a weak-inad form player but got a wretched. But, hey, sometimes you gotta try stuff :)

high salary
I agree that his salary is quite high, as NAIWF first stated. I don't know how much of a difference the solid/solid combination makes compared to a solid/weak combination of scoring/passing. I was breakeven before I bought him, meaning with some very average home crowd week, I break even over two weeks. My stadium is now at 32k seats and there also, there is nowhere to go but up... Also, by unloading these last three players, I saved 2580 U$ of salary that I don't plan on replacing right now, so I'm basically only taking an increase of 1260 U$ per week... As Alf stated, that high salary is boosted by the many semi-useless secondaries, but I'm thinking that in the right setup, this player cuold play other positions than forward (an offensive inner mid for example, playing with two other very strong playmaking inner mids)

Anyway, I still like my buy. Thanks for your comments, keep 'em coming, especially the forward trainers out there...

FM

[Qwikshot]

Hey if God has a price and you got it, good for you...what transfer addict can boast of purchased God and for a good deal no less...I am always wary of form worse than inadequate, but perhaps he'll rise up...btw its been one week since my last transfer purchase...I'm holding fast to that...

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Qwikshot
btw its been one week since my last transfer purchase...I'm holding fast to that...

Good for you, one day at a time, as they say :)

You know what, I realized just this minute that my last ten transactions in my transfer history were all sales and that that it had been more than a month since my last purchase... wow, I'm not that bad finally :)

FM

[-Panther]

overall, I say you got a good deal. wasn't a steal, but you didn't blow your money to the point where you'll lose sleep about it. I'll be selling a solid scoring passable passing inad wing/def within 2 weeks.

I'm pretty positive I'll get 200-250k for him. I'll be listing him @ 190-200k haven't decided yet. He's 23 and since I started, has yet to go below passable form. He tends to stay in excellent form for 2-3 weeks in a row, then drops to passable, then solid for 1-2, then back to excellent.

right now, he's pass/pass inad/inad @ 171k with 7 weeks training in passable form wretched XP. he puts up 2.5 in inad-passable form and 3 in solid-excellent. although solid form varies. 2.5-3 depending on high-low solid.

your guy also has the added benefits of:

1: inad SP
2: inad PM (could be a defensive striker)
3: inad defending (play destruction anyone?)

and in a tight bind, you could even play him as:

1: offensive middie if ya wanted
2: offensive defender if ya wanted

the part that pushes me to 'you got a decent deal' is that ALL of his
stats are useable in some way/shape/form as a striker.

I also like his excellent stamina. you say 'why it's useless to a striker?'

I think stamina is valuable to EVERY position. my strikers with inad+ stamina, score WAY more than those with weak-. If that helps them in the series scoring race, that's a bonus.

I also believe missed scoring opps. in second half, in someway are connected to stamina, some of them anyway. just like a defender giving up a goal cause he's tired. strikers will miss cause they kick like a sissy cause they're tired.

I also think it's of use to keepers to a degree due to this.

if there's 2 17 y/o solid strikers on the market and I'm buying a trainee and they both have exactly the same stats but:

#1 has weak stamina valued @ 73k
#2 has passable stamina valued @ 73k

I'm buying #2 even is he is slightly lower solid because he has better stamina.

SP is also VERy valuable to me.

being he's 28, you didn't get ripped and you didn't get a steal. you got a decently fair price.

[FrogMan]

thanks -Panther, amazing analysis, just like I want them. You'd have told me I got robbed and I would not have been able to say otherwise, well detailed...

FM

[bbor]

God is at the bottom of a plate of poutine:D

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by bbor
God is at the bottom of a plate of poutine:D

And him and his wretched form will face your team on Wednesday :p

FM

[daedalus]

As usual, I pretty much agree with what -Panther said.

The only thing I want to add is to keep in mind his specialty. With one being technical, I'd avoid either a quick or techical forward for your other forward as both of those will have trouble in rain along with this guy.

As far as wretched form goes, I feel the same way about it as I did when Havok bought his injured player: So what? You got the player you wanted at a reasonable price, instead of having to fight through a bidding war. Good 'nough.

[bbor]

Originally posted by FrogMan
And him and his wretched form will face your team on Wednesday :p

FM

I'll try not to hurt him:D

[sterlingice]

It's not a wage- it's an offering.
It never hurts to have God on your side.
God in wretched form is still better than Buddha in passable form...

I have more of these but I already see tomatoes coming out. I'll be here all week :D

SI

[Eilim]

I picked up a similarly skilled 26yo striker a week ago in poor form. One thing I did was check the form of the rest of the players on his team. When I saw that most of the team didn't have form above inadequate I figured he didn't have much in the way of a training program established (lack of assitants & training %) and figured it would *most likely* improve once he got in under my system.

I also had the benefit of knowing he'd get a week of general training in once he joined the team as I had finally broken down and was attempting to counteract the season long form dive of my current wingers and strikers that has my team barely able to pull an inad attack stat.

Anyways, might want to check the form of the rest of his old team and see how it is. Like Panther, in my opinion you got a decent player at a fair price.. and more importantly a key player you had a need for. In my mind if you get a player you feel you need, and you can afford it... You didn't do too bad.


-Eilim

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by sterlingice
It's not a wage- it's an offering.
It never hurts to have God on your side.
God in wretched form is still better than Buddha in passable form...

I have more of these but I already see tomatoes coming out. I'll be here all week :D

SI

Buddha would make a fine goalie...or Shiva for that matter.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Qwikshot
Buddha would make a fine goalie...or Shiva for that matter.Shiva would be an uber defensive midfielder. How'd you like to charge upfield to be met by . . . The Destroyer? :D

[KevinNU7]

Don't leave Vishnu out of the mix.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by KevinNU7
Don't leave Vishnu out of the mix.Of course not. Vishnu anchors the midfield, ahem, preserving possession.

Right behind the creative attacking midfielder, Brahma. :D

[Qwikshot]

Mercury would be an awesome striker...

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Eilim
I picked up a similarly skilled 26yo striker a week ago in poor form. One thing I did was check the form of the rest of the players on his team. When I saw that most of the team didn't have form above inadequate I figured he didn't have much in the way of a training program established (lack of assitants & training %) and figured it would *most likely* improve once he got in under my system.

I also had the benefit of knowing he'd get a week of general training in once he joined the team as I had finally broken down and was attempting to counteract the season long form dive of my current wingers and strikers that has my team barely able to pull an inad attack stat.

Anyways, might want to check the form of the rest of his old team and see how it is. Like Panther, in my opinion you got a decent player at a fair price.. and more importantly a key player you had a need for. In my mind if you get a player you feel you need, and you can afford it... You didn't do too bad.


-Eilim

Eilim, you are bringing a very good point and I just checked his former teammates' form and you are right, overall form really wasn't impressive over there. Also, the owner only had an inadequate coach, despite playing since October 2002... I also saw that he doesn't seem to book friendly every week, so Michael may have had bad form for a while following a few weeks without playing... Anyway, he'll be playnig tomorrow night, we'll take it from there...

FM

[Havok]

sorry for jumping into this thread a little late. I've been away the last 2 days.

Anyway, i'd say you overpaided. First off, you bought him in Sweden. That alone tells you, you overpaided :)

Second off, is that wretched form is killer. I just bought a 27 year old passable forward with inadequate passing and weak experiance. That gets 3 stars in passable form for 27k. You just paided 232k for a guy who's gonna get ya 2 stars(maybe) in wretched form. Now if your lucky, you'll have him in inadequate form in 3-4 weeks. But thats a long time away.

Third off, That wage each week is alot for a guy putting up 2 stars. There are formidable players out there with lower wages.

Buying a guy after only looking for a few mins in the Swedish market is a great way to overpay. You could have found a Solid forward with passable passing and weak (or higher) experiance in passable form for the same price.

Just my opinion, i hope he works out for ya! :)

[FrogMan]

thanks for your comments Havok.

I know he is worthless right now, but I don't need him right now. I need him to get back in form and then he will take the place of one of my 2 passable scorer/inadequate passer. Both are giving me 2.5 stars right now and can generate a solid central attack. I also have a third whos is solid/weak.

What I was looking for was a way of improving from the passable/inadequate combination and I think I may have done this with the solid/solid combination.

I agree the salary is enormous and I may have been overpaid for him, but I disagree about your assessment of the Swedish market. I have found many great deals in Sweden. This player, I had set a limit of about 230k (because that was the value of what I had just received from my sales), so I was about to drop out of the bidding if it went higher. I always shop the Swedish market with a very good idea of how high I want to go. Maybe my how high for this guy should have been based on a bit more research, I simply told myself "you got this much you can spend" :)

FM

[Masked]

I recently purchased a very similar player

Alain Abeillé (12064118)
29 years, weak form, healthy
A nasty fellow who is temperamental and honest.
Has weak experience and weak leadership abilities.

Nationality: Schweiz
Assessed value: 69 000 US$
Wage: 1 584 US$/week including 20% Bonus
Owner: South Bay Saints


Stamina: wretched Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: wretched Passing: solid
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: wretched

He was also in wretched form when I bought him last week for $137,500, but he bumped to weak form in the last training update. I am hoping he is 3.5 star player in passable form (experience). He will make his Saints' debut this afternoon in my cup match.

When his form bumped, I put him back on the market for 275K to see if I could find someone with a little too much money for their own good. I could then by someone a few years younger. No fools, I mean, bidders yet.

[Havok]

The only time i'll shop in the sweden market is went im a MUCH better team and im shopping for oustanding and up players.

Until then i won't even look :(

[FrogMan]

quick training update, God improved his form to weak this week and gained 88k U$ of value in the process :D

He is now valued at 258k U$...

FM

[KevinNU7]

Good God! What an update! ;)

[Havok]

sweet, then maybe it will turn out to be a good deal after all :)

[sterlingice]

My God! What are you training? ;)

SI

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by sterlingice
My God! What are you training? ;)

SI

I just started a whole bible study training :) Seriously, I train playmaking, so he didn't gain value because of training, or if so, it was very small...

I'm almost afraid to think of what his value would be if he ever hit solid or excellent form... :eek:

FM

[FrogMan]

For those of you interested in knowing how God fares with my team, and also because I really want to brag about it :), here's another quick update on God.

I played him tonight, despite him being a technical player, and the game being played in heavy rain (not good for technical forwards). Despite teh rain, he still pulled in 2.5 stars in weak form. If that wasn't a good enough news (at least in regard to what to expect in the future) he also gained a level of experience from tonight's match. He now has weak experience...

Life is good :D

FM