Hehe Rush Resigns

[Bonegavel]

Awwww. Now ESPN will have nothing to talk about. Oh yeah, it is football season.

[Sharpieman]

There is a god!!!

[Bonegavel]

for those that hate Rush, you can be satisfied to know that I'm sure this pained him greatly because he loves football. He talks about it constantly on the AIR and, knowing his love of talking and giving his opinion, the countdown was probably a dream come true for him.

So, all you Rush haters can rejoice.

[edit to remove dola - damn, I'm slow]

[bigdawg2003]

Well that experiment worked.........

[Suicane75]

In his resignation statement he said his opinion was not racially motivated. :rolleyes:

[ISiddiqui]

There goes the rating gains for ESPN's NFL Countdown.

[sabotai]

I'm not happy because I hate Rush, I'm happy because the show might actually be watchable again. But that's a little wishful thinking on my part...they'll find a way to ruin it.

And please Bone, don't try to appeal to emotion with me. I have no emotion to appeal to. :)

[Swaggs]

Ann Coulter signed on to replace him.

[sabotai]

That's not funny, Swaggs! ;)

[Sharpieman]

Ann Coulter- The devil with blonde hair....

[Easy Mac]

What about Hillary?

[kcchief19]

When you think about, who is really surprised by this? Didn't we all see this coming? I was probably the most outspoken person here on why this was a bad idea. In retrospect, I should have just waited for Rush to implode. He was bound to say something stupide like that eventually.

Of course, now we'll have to put up with all the ditto-brains coming out about how "The Man" is keeping Rush down and how the "PC thugs" brought him down.

[sianews]

Show's the hyprocricy in the media alright... Dusty Baker makes a blantintly racist comment and the whole thing blows over within 24 hours. Rush Limbaugh makes a questionable statment and after 48 hours of non stop headline news, not only do they force him to resign, they are coming out with drug abuse allegations! (see drudge)

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by kcchief19
When you think about, who is really surprised by this? Didn't we all see this coming? I was probably the most outspoken person here on why this was a bad idea. In retrospect, I should have just waited for Rush to implode. He was bound to say something stupide like that eventually.

Of course, now we'll have to put up with all the ditto-brains coming out about how "The Man" is keeping Rush down and how the "PC thugs" brought him down.

Only if you listen to the show, kc.

[Swaggs]

I guess the sports media is left-leaning, as well.

EDIT--I heard that from an except from Rush's show played on MSNBC.

[Sharpieman]

Originally posted by sianews
Show's the hyprocricy in the media alright... Dusty Baker makes a blantintly racist comment and the whole thing blows over within 24 hours. Rush Limbaugh makes a questionable statment and after 48 hours of non stop headline news, not only do they force him to resign, they are coming out with drug abuse allegations! (see drudge)
Um thats because Black people have been persecuted for hundreds of years and white people have done the persecuting.

[ISiddiqui]

So it's ok for blacks to be racist :p.

More equality for some? ;)

[damnMikeBrown]

Now, if we could slip Sterling back into his chair. . . Somebody, send some more Crack & "Dancers" over to Irvin's place before show time.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by BoneGavel
for those that hate Rush, you can be satisfied to know that I'm sure this pained him greatly because he loves football. He talks about it constantly on the AIR and, knowing his love of talking and giving his opinion, the countdown was probably a dream come true for him.

So, all you Rush haters can rejoice.

Not that two wrongs make a right but I'm sure much of what he's said on the air has pained many people greatly.

That said, this is a lot like trying to put Dennis Miller on MNF- it was an interesting idea but it just didn't work. Liberal, conservative, nothing- they are football outsiders. Then again, I'd prefer a Dennis Miller/Rush Limbaugh booth on MNF to having Madden slobber through another night and he's considered a football announcing god by the average moron.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
Um thats because Black people have been persecuted for hundreds of years and white people have done the persecuting.

I'm sorry, but that's some of the biggest load of crap I have ever read on this board.

A racist is a racist. It isn't justified in any circumstances, no matter who the racist is or the color of his skin.

CR

[Arles]

I think that the whole race thing was blown out of proportion. First of all, Rush should know better than to throw this kind of easy soundbite to his critics. So, you have to wonder why he would even say something like this.

But, let's actually look at the comments in their entirety (something very few have been willing to do). Rush said that the media had invested a great deal of capital in McNabb and wanted him to succeed. Therefore, they would be more willing to "embellish" his ability to keep the story going. He then went on to make a very good parallel (that hasn't gotten any mention) of a white QB in the same situation named Kurt Warner.

Now, I disagree on his point as I think that McNabb is a hell of a QB. But I don't consider Rush a racist for this opinion. Especially since his examples for additional cases of media favoritism went to white QBs as well.

The bigger issue is the pressure from left-leaning organizations and individuals against anyone with an opinion that they don't agree with. It's not "let's debate and let Americans come to their own conclusions", it's let's silence that opinion and fire Rush from ESPN. I wonder what the NAACP and the democratic presidential candidates would say if a conservative group came out and wanted a liberal radio DJ fired that spoke ill about Pro Life.

I have a feeling they wouldn't be very happy if that man got fired for his comments. For examples of this, look at the dixie chicks and the outcry on the left for the boycott against them.

I think you let people vote with their pocketbooks. If the criticism against Rush was legitimate, he would lose credibility and people would turn to something else. Just like with the chicks. But, the answer is not to strongarm ESPN or some concert arena and prevent them from being able to voice their opinion.

If we are going to voice tolerance as a goal, you have to be tolerant of differing opinions as well and hope that, in the long run, your argument will win based on merit, and not because it is the only one allowed to be heard.

Arlie

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
Um thats because Black people have been persecuted for hundreds of years and white people have done the persecuting.

No reason to allow racism. Racism is just as wrong no matter by who or against who.

And in the words of Ben Folds: "It wasn't my idea"

[pjstp20]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
Um thats because Black people have been persecuted for hundreds of years and white people have done the persecuting.

Please, take this argument and stick it in a place where you cannot retrive it. . Last I heard it was EQUALITY, not let others slide because of past injustices commited by dead men. Sianews makes a good point don't belittle it with this idiotic logic.

I've never persecuted anyone, so I'm not gonna bite my tounge for something I didn't do. I have just as much a right to be offended by Baker's comments as an African American has a right to be offended by Rush's, and both should be treated with equal disdain amoung the general public and the media. Neither should be brushed off, nor should there be this media frenzy. But since we live in such PC times this and affermitive action is what we get. Baker should have been roasted just as bad as Limbaugh.

[Arles]

Originally posted by pjstp20
Baker should have been roasted just as bad as Limbaugh.

Funny, I think neither should have been "roasted" at all.

Arlie

[pjstp20]

I feel the same way, I'm just saying Rush should have been granted the same impunity given to Baker. But if your gonna run Rush through the ringer for this, the same should have been done to Baker.

[Arles]

Originally posted by pjstp20
I feel the same way, I'm just saying Rush should have been granted the same impunity given to Baker. But if your gonna run Rush through the ringer for this, the same should have been done to Baker.
Fair enough, but I think people need to lighten up overall. And while I am not normally in the "media conspiracy" camp, I think the media did a lot to hype up both statements. I heard the full comments from both Rush and Baker. I don't know how any logical person can get all "hot and bothered" by either. Baker's were completely in jest while killing time and Rush was using a little hyperbole to make the point that McNabb's status as a top black QB meant the media was very reluctant to criticize his overall play.

While both were a little over the top, neither were anything I would get worked up about.

Arlie

[HornedFrog Purple]

Ok Arles, I'll tackle it. By the way, when I posted the thing in the first place it cracked me up.. it still does.

Why did Rush feel the need to point out McNabb was black?

Since according to Rush, McNabb is embellished to the point of being overrated, why did he decide to let us all know after an 0-2 start? I mean if a guy is overrated, he is overrated. Right?

I bet you my bottom dollar if Philly is 2-0, Rush doesn't say that.

Hell if he felt that way, say it on opening day. What's the difference?

As far as the media protecting the black QB that is garbage. I can't tell you how many media guys down here continue to bash Quincy after 2 wins.

[Kodos]

Should he be referred to as Rush The Greek now?

[McSweeny]

i don't really see how Rush was being racist or making a racially charged statement. All he said was that the media was pushing for a black QB to be a success right? Is it so wrong to point that out? It may or may not be true, but it seems like a plausable thing to discuss doesn't it?

[j51]

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, unless you are a white male, aged 18-55.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by j51
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, unless you are a white male, aged 18-55.

Being a white male aged 18-55, I feel this way sometimes, but no one made a law saying he can't say what he did. However, he is facing the consequences of what he said, right or wrong. This is all happening in the private sector and no one is carting him off to jail or putting him in front of congress. He has the right to free speech and he is facing the consequences of exercising said free speech and the government is doing nothing either direction.

SI

[Axxon]

Ok, wait a minute. The network knew what he was going to say, instructed the other commentators not to comment on his statements and now when theres some IMHO predictable negative feedback they come back with :

"Wednesday night, ESPN issued a statement that, in part, read, "We have communicated to Mr. Limbaugh that his comments were insensitive and inappropriate."

That's total horse crap and likely the reason he decided to quit. I think Rush got hosed on this one.

FWIW, I don't agree with what Rush said but I certainly don't believe it to be a racist remark either. I've thought and read about it quite a bit and I'm not seeing the racism. I'm not surprised that opportunists would just fall all over themselves just to climb the bash Rush bus though.

I can't get over the way the network handled this. Surely they had to anticipate something like this. This wasn't a spur of the moment quote, it was a planned segment. Makes no sense at all. Makes me wonder if there wasn't something behind the scenes going on.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Ok Arles, I'll tackle it. By the way, when I posted the thing in the first place it cracked me up.. it still does.

Why did Rush feel the need to point out McNabb was black?

Since according to Rush, McNabb is embellished to the point of being overrated, why did he decide to let us all know after an 0-2 start? I mean if a guy is overrated, he is overrated. Right?

I bet you my bottom dollar if Philly is 2-0, Rush doesn't say that.

Hell if he felt that way, say it on opening day. What's the difference?

As far as the media protecting the black QB that is garbage. I can't tell you how many media guys down here continue to bash Quincy after 2 wins.

My take is that it isn't such an important issue to him that it would stand out on opening day. After a bad start, all eyes were on McNabb and he gave the issue some thought. I don't think he searched out McNabb I think McNabbs bad start came TO him in other words.

Peter King wrote an article blasting Rush but in it he said that SI had sent him to find out "what's wrong with Donovan" and I'd say it's the same thing. Nothing unusual here.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Axxon
Ok, wait a minute. The network knew what he was going to say, instructed the other commentators not to comment on his statements and now when theres some IMHO predictable negative feedback they come back with :

Where was it said that the network instructed other commentators not to comment on it? I haven't seen this anywhere, but I havent' been following the story that closely.

As for the network protecting Rush, yes protecting him, because that's what you are asking them to do with these comments, let's see... they want ratings, a huge controversy about racism that stirs up all kinds of publicity for them, the fact that Rush is smart enough to know what he's saying and he's not a little kid- c'mon. ESPN isn't going to censor the guy if he's going to say something that is a PR nightmare for him but will drum up ratings for them. He's an adult and even more, a public figure used to scrutiny: he should know better than to not say something like that.

Yes, the comment was blown out of proportion, but it's not ESPN's job to protect him from himself.

SI

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Axxon

I can't get over the way the network handled this. Surely they had to anticipate something like this. This wasn't a spur of the moment quote, it was a planned segment. Makes no sense at all. Makes me wonder if there wasn't something behind the scenes going on.



Read Chris Berman's comment on this. He read the quote before the show. That means more than he read it at ESPN. They did not find it "insensitive" before it aired. They didn't find it "insensitive" until they came under a firestorm of criticism. Then they did what all corporate toadies do. They caved.

[Axxon]

sterlingice ,

the following link is from ESPN and states that USA today reported it.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1627991)

Dude, they are his employer. They knew what he was going to say. They let the sentiment go over the air with their full knowledge and forethought and now are trying to cut bait and shaft their own employee.

It's one thing to want ratings and controversy but it's another thing entirely to coldly screw over your own employees. It's self serving and it sucks. It also makes no sense as the show was enjoying higher ratings since he was there. Arguably he was a cause of that. You don't do something like that to your successful employees.

I still think he got screwed.


GrantDawg,

I read the Berman quotes. It's in the link above. I agree that the most likely scenario is the one you put forward but it's also possible that Berman is spinning to protect ESPN.

I was also wondering if the deal maybe just wasn't working out. Maybe Rush wanted out and this was a way to let him out without embarrasing him and generating massive ratings and publicity for both parties in one fell swoop.

This certainly only hurts Rush if he really was enjoying doing football. I'm betting this fiasco earns him more dittoheads than ever. I'm not suggesting, merely contemplating. Remember, at heart I'm a cynical sob. :)

[daedalus]

Disney don't do bad pub.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by daedalus
Disney don't do bad pub.

Great point.

Do you think behind the scenes some heads may roll at ESPN over this? I just can't believe that they wouldn't anticipate this kind of negative reaction considering the personality and the issue involved. Heck, I'd fire them even if they truly didn't anticipate this because that would show some gross incompetence and lack of understanding of the industry and the public.

[pjstp20]

I actually think Rush has a good point but basing it on race is where he screwed up. I think the media as a whole has overhyped black QBs that have shown the slightest bit of success, but I don't think it was because they were black. Theres numerous examples: Randall Cunningham's first few years, Kordell Stewart's first few years, Donavan McNabb, Steve McNair - the last season and a half, and of course Michael Vick. I think their style of play however, was more of a factor than their race. It's a little more exciting to watch their highlights than the classic drop back and pick apart a defense QB. Sports shows will show tons of highlights of these QBs and the hype begins.

I know Rush is vehemently against some new NFL policies, particularly the "must interview one minority coaching canidate" policy, and maybe he thought the media and the NFL were giving black QBs more credit than they were due in order to make QB a multi race position. I dont know just speculating. To me none of this matters.

[pjstp20]

Dola- seeing one of the most racist organizations in the U.S., the NAACP, comment on this is the epitome of hypocracy.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by pjstp20
Dola- seeing one of the most racist organizations in the U.S., the NAACP, comment on this is the epitome of hypocracy.

You know, I found this :


The NAACP also condemned Limbaugh's remarks, calling them "bigoted and ignorant," and called for the network to fire Limbaugh or at least provide an opposing point of view on the show.

It seems that they are not opposed to providing an opposing point of view which is more moderate than the three democratic presidential candidates who flat out called for his firing.

I guess we're not doing to bad when one of the most racist organizations in the U.S. is more moderate than the presidential contenders. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with providing an opposing point of view. Debate is never a bad thing.

[Axxon]

dola,

In the same story I found this quote. I'm not offering it as an
editorial but it struck me as quite funny so I offer it in jest.


Asked about Limbaugh's comments, Eagles defensive end N.D. Kalu said: "He speaks well, he's well-read, but he's an idiot."

As far as put downs go, this one is actually pretty good. :D

[cuervo72]

This whole thing just amazes me. I mean, RL said this what, Sunday morning? And here on a football message board the first time I hear anything about this is Wednesday morning (I know HFP posted Tuesday night)? What took so long if it was such a big story? :)

Then last night I see it's on CNN, NBC, ABC....ABC was great, let me tell you. An ashamed looking Peter Jennings, comparing Limbaugh to Jimmy the Greek and Al Campanis. Where did Rush say anything about the inherent abilities of blacks? He didn't. He just said someone was overrated in part because he was black. ABC then said "this about a QB who has lead his team to two championship games". Hasn't Kordell Stewart done this? Hasn't Steve McNair done this? Certainly nobody is calling Stewart overrated these days :) McNair if anything is underrated (which goes against Limbaugh's theory). Oh, Kurt Warner has been in a couple of NFC Championships too (ok, not the last two), and he's hardly the media darling right now either. ABC also mentioned that "Mr. Limbaugh is a very rich man"...I forget what the rest of the statement was, but why is this relevant?

This whole thing just strikes me as liberals taking an opportunity (which Limbaugh might have thought better about) to attack someone they despise, whether the attack is warranted or not.

[Ksyrup]

I agree, this was not a racist statement. The mention of race in an opinion does not automatically mean a statement is racist. The comments made by Jimmy the Greek and Campaneris - nevermind the fact that they've been echoed by black historian Harry Edwards for the past decade without any backlash - were comments inherent to one's race. In contrast, you could take Rush's comment, substitute, say, "athletical," and he would have been arguing that the media is trying to push an "athletical" QB over your typical stand-in-the-pocket QB. He may be flat wrong, but it's just an opinion, and it is not a commentary, good or bad, on one's race.

It seems to me that while Rush was probably wrong about the media intentionally hyping McNabb or any black QB as "The Great One," his overall point about the media is being proven by the backlash this is creating. Did this really upset millions of people when they heard it, or did hearing about it, then listening to the news media describe how racist it was, cause people to feel as if they were upset about something they likely would have shrugged off two days ago? I may be wrong, but this whole scenario strikes me as not having gained wings by the comments themselves, but the attention it drew from people with a motive to want to see Rush embarrassed.

[Senator]

Color has nothing to do with it and shouldn't have been brought up; pure and simple.

There are plenty of other qualities, good and bad, that make up a man. If he actually thinks the media conspire to elevate a player because of his color, then either he is a huge racist or he is right and we haven't made any strides at all in civil rights and should be very ashamed.

I have always felt that if you let a man be a man, you will see what kind of character he has inside, and then you have all you need to know.

McNabb has been a great QB in Philly, I am still unsure what his beef is with him.

[Ksyrup]

Well, I think his basic opinion is that the "liberal media" and liberals in general are the first to argue for a colorblind society, yet they also go out of their way to point out any issue involving race, legit or not. And so I think that was the base upon which his opinion of the McNabb situation was formed. I'm not saying he was right, but that's how I think he came up with that opinion.

The irony, of course, is that in making that argument, when the majority of football fans clearly didn't see race being a factor at all in the hyping of McNabb (regardless of whether he deserved the hype or not), Rush made himself look no better than the Jesse Jackson's of the world that he chastizes for doing the same thing every day on the radio.

Bottom line - he may be a football fan, but so are a lot of other people who have no business being on a TV talking about it. He should have just politely declined the invite, or made it his goal to talk football and not bring politics into it at all. He could have still been controversial, if that's what he wanted, based strictly on football issues.

[cuervo72]

Hey, howdy Senator! As a Philly fan, yes, I appreciate McNabb as a QB. I don't think he's one of the greatest pure passers in the league, but he makes up for that with his threat as a runner. I'd rather have him then most of the other guys out there.

Ksyrup - funny you should mention Harry Edwards, ABC showed a clip of him last night in their report. I think his opinion was that what Rush said wasn't necessarily racist, but was pretty stupid.

[Mustang]

Wow...

You mean the media ACTUALLY draws attention to the success of an athlete based upon their race? When the hell did this start happening?

Must have started with McNabb recently.. no wait, it was the Williams sisters.. Ichiro.. no.. Tiger.. Umm.. maybe Ray Rhodes/Mike Sherman debate. No.. not that either. Larry Bird? hmm.. no.. no.. Gerry Cooney 'The Great White Hope..' ?

I don't think its any big revelation that people want others to fail or succeed based on various factors - Race, sex, religion, politics, etc. Hell, there is probably a whole slew of people that want American's to return in body bags from Iraq just so Bush looks bad. And while Rush's comments where not well thought out and he should have known better.. I don't think he is racist for it.
Racist term gets thrown around too much and has lost it's meaning.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by kcchief19
Of course, now we'll have to put up with all the ditto-brains coming out about how "The Man" is keeping Rush down and how the "PC thugs" brought him down.

Does he really say this? Is he saying that the chubby, rich, white middle aged white men who hold power in this country are holding him - a chubby, rich, white, middle aged man - down?

[Maple Leafs]

Wow... it doesn't take much to lose your job these days. Are we really still stuck at the point where you can't mention someone's race without getting a pink slip? Didn't we get past that about ten years ago?

I didn't agree with what he said, but that's not a firing offense*. Yeesh.

*When you maintain that you've done nothing wrong, then suddenly resign, and your employer immediately issues a statement saying they're glad you resigned... you didn't resign, you were fired.

[Ksyrup]

Rush isn't chubby anymore, unless he's pulled a Lasorda recently. I haven't seen him in a couple of years, but he was downright thin the last time I saw him.

[Butter]

Rush is a whiny quitter.

[Buccaneer]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
Um thats because Black people have been persecuted for hundreds of years and white people have done the persecuting.

Why don't you study history or does your blinders prevent you from doint that? Look at the history of mankind and tell me who groups of people have been persecuted. Or if you don't think there was history before you were born, take a look a Muslim Africa today.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
There is a god!!!

This may be the most confusing remark I will ever see about this news item.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Rush isn't chubby anymore, unless he's pulled a Lasorda recently. I haven't seen him in a couple of years, but he was downright thin the last time I saw him.

If anybody has been following this 'story', they would have seen clips of Rush talking on the NFL show on ESPN. He was probably the most fit person on the show.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by sabotai
I'm not happy because I hate Rush, I'm happy because the show might actually be watchable again. But that's a little wishful thinking on my part...they'll find a way to ruin it.

Every article I have seen says the ratings were up over last season. Guess they moved on without your viewership, eh?

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
Um thats because Black people have been persecuted for hundreds of years and white people have done the persecuting.

Prove it.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Since according to Rush, McNabb is embellished to the point of being overrated, why did he decide to let us all know after an 0-2 start? I mean if a guy is overrated, he is overrated. Right?

What makes you think he was waiting? The fact that it never came up as a discussion topic means he was waiting to ambush McNabb? Are you breathing oxygen or something else?

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Axxon
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with providing an opposing point of view. Debate is never a bad thing.

From what I have seen on ESPNEWS, an opposing point of view WAS presented on the show.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Samdari
Does he really say this? Is he saying that the chubby, rich, white middle aged white men who hold power in this country are holding him - a chubby, rich, white, middle aged man - down?

*ring* *ring* I think someone is trying to call you on the clue phone. Are you going to answer it?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Mustang
Wow...

You mean the media ACTUALLY draws attention to the success of an athlete based upon their race? When the hell did this start happening?

Must have started with McNabb recently.. no wait, it was the Williams sisters.. Ichiro.. no.. Tiger.. Umm.. maybe Ray Rhodes/Mike Sherman debate. No.. not that either. Larry Bird? hmm.. no.. no.. Gerry Cooney 'The Great White Hope..' ?

I don't think its any big revelation that people want others to fail or succeed based on various factors - Race, sex, religion, politics, etc. Hell, there is probably a whole slew of people that want American's to return in body bags from Iraq just so Bush looks bad. And while Rush's comments where not well thought out and he should have known better.. I don't think he is racist for it.
Racist term gets thrown around too much and has lost it's meaning. This is the best post in this thread. The "racial" part of the statement, "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well." is a no-brainer, folks. Higher-performing white people get extra attention in basketball, boxing, and in positions such as CB in the NFL. Higher-performing black people get extra hype as golfers, tennis players and as QB's in the NFL. I don't think it is PC, either, but more of a "rooting for the underdog" kind of thing. How many sportswriters were rooting for that girl's kick to go through the uprights in a D-1 game recently? I'd venture to say just about every one of 'em. There's no real harm in this sort of thing.

Limbaugh got nailed on this one because of who he is and where he was, much more so than what he said. If he makes that statement on his radio show, those of us who don't listen to him probably would have never heard about it. His mistake was forgetting that he's under a microscope and assumed by many to be a racist.

[Tekneek]

And forgot that he was working for a network that has no backbone.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Tekneek
*ring* *ring* I think someone is trying to call you on the clue phone. Are you going to answer it?

Well made point. I like how you illustrated what you disagreed with about my statement, and then with your rare talent for wordsmithing, made an impressive counterpoint.

Where am I missing clues? What are you talking about?

[Tekneek]

Try actually reading the post you responded to. It never suggested that Rush would claim that, it suggested his fans would...which means your entire post lost its point.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Higher-performing white people get extra attention in basketball, boxing, and in positions such as CB in the NFL.Whu... wait a second, do you mean Jason Sehorn isn't a top five defensive back?

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Tekneek
Try actually reading the post you responded to. It never suggested that Rush would claim that, it suggested his fans would...which means your entire post lost its point.

I see your point. My original point is not completely lost, no matter who is claiming it though. I was trying to make the point that because of his wealth and influential position in society, he is part of "The Man" and thus cannot be held down by "The Man." I think that remains true whether Rush or his legion of fans was making the original statement. It was the idea of Rush being held down by the man that I thought was laughable.

[Butter]

Originally posted by Tekneek
*ring* *ring* I think someone is trying to call you on the clue phone. Are you going to answer it?

*ring* *ring*

I think that's the local Dittohead fan club calling. Aren't you supposed to be at a diner with a radio, slapping high fives with other like-minded folk and swapping off-color jokes as you grumble about how the liberal media has it in for Rush?

Maybe you could head on down to the local druggist and try and scoop up some Oxycontin. After all, that seems to be the rage!

All sarcasm in this post is non-coincidental and purely intended.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Maple Leafs
Whu... wait a second, do you mean Jason Sehorn isn't a top five defensive back?

Forget the black/white bias, I think Sehorn is representative of a media bias that Rush should have brought up - that athletes who happen to perform for a NY team are better than others. Just ask any team that has dealt for a Yankees "prospect" over the past decade. Not that they shouldn't have made their own judgments, but the media is always hyping these guys. Look at Bernie Williams. About the only thing he has on Kenny Lofton these days, aside from the fact that he plays in NY, is that he can play acoustic guitar. Jeter isn't a great SS. Soriano is no Pujols.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Forget the black/white bias, I think Sehorn is representative of a media bias that Rush should have brought up - that athletes who happen to perform for a NY team are better than others. Just ask any team that has dealt for a Yankees "prospect" over the past decade. Not that they shouldn't have made their own judgments, but the media is always hyping these guys. Look at Bernie Williams. About the only thing he has on Kenny Lofton these days, aside from the fact that plays in NY, is that he can play acoustic guitar. Jeter isn't a great a SS. Soriano is no Pujols. Funny you mention that. Agreed on the Yankees, and you could probably add guys like Ewing and Messier to the list as well.

But when it comes to the Giants, it's odd. You have Sehorn and Shockey as examples of guys who are wildly overrated. And yet guys like Barber, Collins and Toomer get relatively little attention considering the numbers they put up.

[Ksyrup]

That's true. Collins, I can understand, given his past issues. Not that it's right, but it's understandable. But there's no real reason why the top WR and RB on that team shouldn't be hyped as well.

Then again, maybe it's a combination of the player's ability, the media's need to tout someone as its next darling, and the player's personality. Collins and Toomer don't seem to be very in the spotlight off the field, either. Barber's at least done a few commercials. Guys like Sehorn, Jeter, and Williams have more going for them than their ability- even if it's just looks - then other players.

[RendeR]

Rush sucked ass anyway, I don't miss him

Irvin needs to shut the hell up and let those with a clue do the talking

Racism is be perpetuated in the most part by those who seem to think its all about them and that any comment or negative remark is based on race. They should think about what was said and be sure it was about race and not that they are simply being dumbasses and deserve what was said.

The fact is, this nation is all about free speech. And by god if jimmy john redneck wants to go around town calling mexican people spics and black people niggers, he HAS THAT RIGHT. Those individuals have every right to be offended about it, howver they do NOT have the right to persecute Jimmy John Redneck for his personal choice of Verbage.

I really hate this whole discussion.

[RendeR]

*prepares himself for the inevitable "you're a fucking racist" flames*

[RendeR]

Oh and I forgot to add that John Madden should be shot and dragged to an empty lot to rot. He's too old and stupid to properly call or "color COmmentate" games any longer.

ABC please get a fucking clue.

[mckerney]

Listening to McNabb's comments in response, I have to wonder if he even heard what Limbaugh said.

This is something I've been going through ever since I was young.

You've had to go through people saying you're not one of the elite quarterbacks in the NFL? People have said the same about me.

When you sit there and pinpoint a guy because of the color of his skin, and not his performance, or the things he's been able to do while he's been in the league, that kinda makes you look like you're the bad guy.

Funny, this seems like exactly the opposite of what Rush was saying and was critizing others saying they were pinpointing him because of the color of his skin.

[Samdari]

Render, you should not be preparing for the "you're a racist" flames as much as the "you don't understand the first amendment" flames.

Rush has the right to say whatever he wants free of governmental interference. He did that. Rush having and exercising that right in no way obligates Disney to broadcast his views.

There are many issues here. The first amendment is just not one of them.

[mckerney]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/1017/1447321.html

"You have a white guy as an announcer and sportscaster," Owens was quoted as saying in the San Francisco Examiner. "Me, I'm black. I do it and I've already done some stuff in the past.

"We're (African-Americans) more expressive than the white guys," Owen said. "You look at the skilled players. We're the ones that get into the end zone. We get in the end zone more than they do."

Owens even went as far to say in another interview that it was only 'white guys' critizing him last year. When asked about comments from people like Denny Green, he just said 'white black guys.' No problem with this, but Limbaugh is a racist. :rolleyes:

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
*ring* *ring*

I think that's the local Dittohead fan club calling. Aren't you supposed to be at a diner with a radio, slapping high fives with other like-minded folk and swapping off-color jokes as you grumble about how the liberal media has it in for Rush?

Maybe you could head on down to the local druggist and try and scoop up some Oxycontin. After all, that seems to be the rage!

All sarcasm in this post is non-coincidental and purely intended.

What is wrong with you? I am not a Rush fan at all. While I have listened to him in the past, I have not listened to him in at least 7 or 8 years or more.

[Glengoyne]

biggest Television injustice since Jimmy the Greek was canned for saying that blacks in the U.S. are superior atheletes because of the breeding practices of white slave owners.

[Butter]

Originally posted by Tekneek
What is wrong with you? I am not a Rush fan at all. While I have listened to him in the past, I have not listened to him in at least 7 or 8 years or more.

What better time to start back up! Rush needs the money for his "meds".

BTW, I am mucho-impresado with that septuple dola up there.

[Swaggs]

So, anyone want to talk about the California Recall or Kobe a bit?

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Swaggs
So, anyone want to talk about the California Recall or Kobe a bit?

I didn't know he was running.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
What better time to start back up! Rush needs the money for his "meds".

BTW, I am mucho-impresado with that septuple dola up there.

o k :confused:

[Butter]

From fair.org (http://www.fair.org/articles/limbaugh-color.html). One thinks ESPN should've read something before hiring him.

June 7, 2000

Limbaugh: A Color Man Who Has A Problem With Color?
by Jeff Cohen and Steve Rendall

Talk radio host Rush Limbaugh may be returning to television. He recently auditioned for a job as color commentator on ABC's "Monday Night Football." The tryout followed weeks of self-promotion by the self-styled "truth detector" to the millions who listen daily to his syndicated radio show on some 600 stations.

Limbaugh's audition is stirring controversy. Sports columnist Thomas Boswell quipped that if Limbaugh joins "Monday Night Football" then baseball's game of the week broadcasters might "team up with John Rocker."

Veteran sports writer Michael Wilbon, who is black, indicated a boycott might result: "If Rush Limbaugh is put in that booth, I will NOT listen to the broadcast," he wrote in a Washington Post chat session. "His views on people like me are well documented and I would find it insulting and hypocritical to watch him…There are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands who feel the same way I do."

If ABC hires Limbaugh, it's not clear a boycott will materialize. What is clear is that his expressed views on racial matters -- from the spiteful to the sophomoric -- would make him an odd color commentator. Indeed, CBS Sports dismissed Jimmy the Greek Snyder for ignorant racial remarks, less derisive than some of Limbaugh's.

As a young broadcaster in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller: "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." A decade ago, after becoming nationally syndicated, he mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X: "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."

In a similar vein, here is Limbaugh's mocking take on the NAACP, a group with a ninety-year commitment to nonviolence: "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

When Carol Moseley-Braun (D-IL) was in the U.S. Senate, the first black woman ever elected to that body, Limbaugh would play the "Movin' On Up" theme song from TV's "Jeffersons" when he mentioned her. Limbaugh sometimes still uses mock dialect -- substituting "ax" for "ask"-- when discussing black leaders.

Such quotes and antics -- many compiled by Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) for our 1995 book -- offer a whiff of Limbaugh's racial sensibility. So does his claim that racism in America "is fueled primarily by the rantings and ravings" of people like Jesse Jackson. Or his ugly reference two years ago to the father of Madonna's first child, a Latino, as "a gang-member type guy" -- an individual with no gang background.

In 1994, Limbaugh mocked St. Louis for building a rail line to East St. Louis "where nobody goes." East St. Louis is home to roughly 40,000 residents -- 98 percent of whom are African-Americans. One of its 40,000 "nobodies" is star NFL linebacker Bryan Cox.

Once, in response to a caller arguing that black people need to be heard, Limbaugh responded: "They are 12 percent of the population. Who the hell cares?" That's not an unusual response for a talk radio host playing to an audience of "angry white males." It may not play so well among National Football League players, 70 percent of whom are African American.

Compared to some talk radio hosts, racism is not central to Rush Limbaugh's shtick. But there has been a pattern of commentary indicating his willingness to exploit prejudice against blacks to further his on-air arguments.

ABC has the right to hire Limbaugh, even at the risk of alienating members of its audience. ("Monday Night Football" is the second-most watched TV show in black households). Thrust into the world of pro football where Limbaugh himself would be something of a racial minority, is it possible that he'd rise above his history of racial bigotry and insensitivity? Not likely.

When all is said and done, the athletes are the key players on "Monday Night Football." It would be great to know how they'd feel about a color man who seems to have trouble with people of color.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Maple Leafs
Whu... wait a second, do you mean Jason Sehorn isn't a top five defensive back? I didn't make any judgement about any particular player, now did I. ;)

[ice4277]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
From fair.org (http://www.fair.org/articles/limbaugh-color.html). One thinks ESPN should've read something before hiring him.

Well, after glancing at this website, saying FAIR provides unbiased opinions is about as accurate as saying O'Reilly really does provide a 'no-spin zone'.

[vtbub]

Rush's mistake was adding the borderline comments to his dumb ass assessment of McNabb.

He is entitled to his wrong opinion on McNabb's career.

What does that have to do with seeing the underdog succeed? Why would you even address these issues together? If he was wailing on Kordell Stewart, would this even be an issue?

Let's be honest, ESPN had no choice then to ask for Limbaugh's resignation. He was trying to create controversy where there wasn't any. You play with fire and you are going to get burned.

Rush should have been smart enough to realize that his audience on ESPN would be different from his legions of "dittoheads" on the radio. Any professional should know that. He has no excuse, frankly neither does ESPN.

Finally, all the oppressed conservative commentators need to realize that they are part of the media. They can create and destroy themselves. Racisim, intolerance, and bigotry defy the targets they are intended for. When Dusty Baker, Pedro Martinez, Terrel Owens pop off, they only help to defeat the cause of equality by showing their ignorance, so did Rush.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by vtbub
When Dusty Baker, Pedro Martinez, Terrel Owens pop off, they only help to defeat the cause of equality by showing their ignorance, so did Rush.

I don't disagree with that sentiment from an overall perspective on the issue of racial equality, but when looking at individual accountability, there seems to be something of double standard. Obviously, this won't ruin Rush's career. But it did ruin Jimmy the Greek's. And why he was strung up for saying exactly what "Professor" Harry Edwards has been spouting as common fact for the past decade, still hasn't been explained to my satisfaction.

[vtbub]

I really don't have a good answer for that.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
And why he was strung up for saying exactly what "Professor" Harry Edwards has been spouting as common fact for the past decade, still hasn't been explained to my satisfaction. I can answer that one for ya Ksyrup.

It's because he was white. White guys aren't allowed to say anything controversial about race anymore. You should know that. ;)

[vtbub]

I never understood the rationale of blacks being able to call themselves niggers and cower if another person does.

I was brought up being called a cripple was pretty much equal to all those other ephitats. That word makes me angry, instead I'm physically and vertically challenged:). Somehow it's ok for other handicapped people to call other disabled people cripples or crips, but faint whent Aunt Gertie screws up at the family reunion "Poor Mary, how's her crippled boy?" Wrong.

[Ksyrup]

Well, I know that. But why is it allowed? I can understand that certain white people became unfortunate victims of a double standard when these issues first arose in the mainstream, but unfortunately, no one has learned a damn thing in the past 20 years. Or, it's being willingly allowed to happen, even though everyone knows it's wrong.

This is something our society has to deal with sooner or later. It's simply not fair to any single person, that their lives can be turned upside down for expressing the same opinion as someone else who gets a free pass because of their race. It's damned hilarious when Chris Rock or Eddie Murphy portrays a racial stereotype (Murphy's "life as a white guy" skit; Rock's "how much for one rib?" skit), but Andrew Dice Clay get boycotted and protested for trying to make a living doing the same thing.

It's one thing for those incidents to have occurred; it's another for our society to not have taken a step back and learned something from what happened to those people. If anything, it's just getting worse.

[Samdari]

Edwards has tenure, Greek did not.

[cuervo72]

Professor is Greek for "racial immunity".

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by vtbub
I never understood the rationale of blacks being able to call themselves niggers and cower if another person does.If a word is meant to be derogatory to a group, that group will often try to "reclaim" the word for use in their own sub-culture. The intention is to take the power away from the bigots. That's why it's still offensive for people outside the group to use the word (especially in an attempt to fit in or seem hip). Seems reasonable to me.

[vtbub]

OK, I can see that to a point.

[Butter]

Originally posted by ice4277
Well, after glancing at this website, saying FAIR provides unbiased opinions is about as accurate as saying O'Reilly really does provide a 'no-spin zone'.

I don't see how direct Rush quotes qualify as providing opinion.

[Butter]

I would agree with the general statement that white people who say "racist" things tend to be held to the fire more than blacks who say "racist" things. Not all double standards are fair. That's part of the price the majority has to pay for being the majority. Life's not fair. Considering that until 40 years ago, a large part of this country was segregated, I would say that we've come a long way in normalizing race relations, but we obviously still have a long way to go. Until the 1950's, it was commonplace for blacks to be publicly ridiculed and denounced and denied entry into restaurants. Imagine that today. Change doesn't happen overnight. The male/female double standards have persisted in this country a lot longer than the white/black double standard has. Which means that if you're expecting the end of it anytime soon, it probably ain't gonna happen.

And Dusty Baker was held to the fire for his commentary. There were many pieces written about what should happen to him. Like these (http://www.sportsethicsinstitute.org/is_dusty_baker_a_racist.htm). Limbaugh has a history of racism that has been public. Baker does not. Elvis Costello once called Ray Charles a "blind ignorant nigger". But Elvis is now considered an icon of music by many, and these comments are not held against him. Some comments can be forgiven (Ray Charles himself forgave Elvis Costello). Some cross the line, especially when considering the history of those who said them. Limbaugh insinuated that McNabb would not be successful if he weren't black. Because the media is so anxious to see a black QB succeed that they've overlooked the fact that he's not very good. Is this merely being ignorant of football, or is it racist? When considered among what Limbaugh has said in the past, it is consistent with racism.

Now, if you want to argue about Charlie Ward's commentary... (see above website)

[Leonidas]

I seem to recall when ESPN hired Rush it was with the hope he would be willing to say controversial things normal sportscasters either won't say, or can't get away with saying. Now he goes and does it and all hell breaks loose.

I'm not a Rush fan and I think what he said was a bit off base, but he's gotta feel like ESPN forgot to give him the courtesy of at least a jar of vasoline to ease the pain. I'm sure he feels he was only doing what his employer wanted, and I have to agree.

[Hurst2112]

Oh, by the way, RUSH is releasing a triple live CD and a double live DVD on October 21st.

Rush in Rio (http://www.rush.com)

[sabotai]

Every article I have seen says the ratings were up over last season. Guess they moved on without your viewership, eh?

Actually, I said in the other thread (I think) that I do watch Countdown, but when I do I have a book open for when I see the "Rush Challenge" thing comes up. It is the only "watchable" pregame on, but mainly because FOX and CBS's are so horrible now. What I was saying was I'm happy because I hope the show will become good again....but they'll screw it up again, I'm sure.

[Easy Mac]

Anyone else think maybe this "drug" thing was about to break, the mouse got wind, and said drop him... now they just had a semi-valid excuse? (i.e. Rick Neuhisel office pool or Dan Issel(?) saying the not even offensive Mexican remark)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Anyone else think maybe this "drug" thing was about to break, the mouse got wind, and said drop him... now they just had a semi-valid excuse? I wondered about that myself...

[ISiddiqui]

This is the best post in this thread. The "racial" part of the statement, "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well." is a no-brainer, folks. Higher-performing white people get extra attention in basketball, boxing, and in positions such as CB in the NFL.

Exactly. Whites in predominently black sports are said to be overhyped (and perhaps are). Jason Sehorn is definetly one of the people that some say is overhyped because of his race (Hell, his nickname was 'The Great White Hope' for a while). Limbaugh just turned it around.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Bottom line - he may be a football fan, but so are a lot of other people who have no business being on a TV talking about it. He should have just politely declined the invite, or made it his goal to talk football and not bring politics into it at all. He could have still been controversial, if that's what he wanted, based strictly on football issues.

Brilliant point. I listen to Rush's radio show when I want politics and social comment. I watch ESPN when I want sports info. No matter how good the 2 may be by themselves, I don't ever want to dip my Politics Chocolate into my Sports Peanutbutter.

If he just would have stayed on topic (i.e. football) everything would have been fine. For those of you that can't see past your hatred of him, Rush has a keen intellect for analysis. He should have just analysed this comment a little more and realised that most people would misunderstand this comment because of the instant cry of RACIST when I white mentions the word "Black" in a sentence.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Anyone else think maybe this "drug" thing was about to break, the mouse got wind, and said drop him... now they just had a semi-valid excuse? (i.e. Rick Neuhisel office pool or Dan Issel(?) saying the not even offensive Mexican remark)

I highly doubt it. If this drug thing turns out to be true, they should just use the same policy as the NFL - give him a raise. Disney prides itself on its acceptance of alternate lifestyles, you would think this would have looked good to them. No, I highly doubt the drug thing would even matter to them a bit.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Well for one thing, here is the entire quote:

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,'' Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Is it out of the realms of reality that Rush was referring to the successful couple of years Philly has had? If not why would he be giving him credit for the the performance of his team when they had been blown out for 2 straight games. So either:

A)he is getting too much credit for getting blown out this year or

B)he is getting too much credit for his team's past success.

I'm betting on B. Just a hunch.

By the way for those who still hold firm that he is talking just about those two games only, Tampa Bay has made it a habit of late to make any quarterback they face look bad. Does this shock anyone?

So who or what is investing hope in McNabb? I am going to take a wild guess but I'm thinking the media. Just a hunch.

So why is the media investing hope in McNabb? Rush without point blank telling you says it is because he is black. Now where in the hell did I get this from? I know I know it's completely made up.

He links the media to giving McNabb too much credit for his team's success because he is black and the defense carried the team. Not because he is just an overrated quarterback with a good defense. No, it seemed to be important to Rush to point out that there is a social concern in the NFL which is that a black quarterback do well. The media has given him all this credit which he didn't deserve because he is black which is the media's social concern.

I don't personally think he is a racist, just an idiot. Apparently, New Orleans, Dallas, Minnesota, Arizona and Tennessee didn't get the memo to hype their black quarterbacks. Must have gotten lost in the mail or something.

Finally give the quote the litmus test. Take the word black out of it.

Rush buried himself.

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by BoneGavel
Disney prides itself on its acceptance of alternate lifestyles, you would think this would have looked good to them.


What? Are you being serious? Don't bring up their allowance of a "Gay Day" at some theme parks as your only evidence of this claim. After all, it is not officially sanctioned as "Gay Day" anyway.

[Sharpieman]

Originally posted by Chief Rum
I'm sorry, but that's some of the biggest load of crap I have ever read on this board.

A racist is a racist. It isn't justified in any circumstances, no matter who the racist is or the color of his skin.

CR

I think its more acceptable for black people to say rasict things. Just my opinion.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by vtbub
I never understood the rationale of blacks being able to call themselves niggers and cower if another person does.

I was brought up being called a cripple was pretty much equal to all those other ephitats. That word makes me angry, instead I'm physically and vertically challenged:). Somehow it's ok for other handicapped people to call other disabled people cripples or crips, but faint whent Aunt Gertie screws up at the family reunion "Poor Mary, how's her crippled boy?" Wrong.

"Are There Any Niggers Here Tonight?"

"Oh, my god, did you hear what he said? Are there any niggers here tonight? Is that rank! Is that cruel! Is that a cheap way to get laughs? Well, I think I see a nigger at the bar talking to two guinea owners and next to them....Now why have I done this? Is it only for shock value? Well, if all the niggers started calling each other nigger, not only among themselves, which they do anyway, but among others. If President Kennedy got on television and said:'I'm considering appointing two or three of the top niggers in the country to my cabinet'-if it was nothing but nigger, nigger, nigger- in six months nigger wouldn't mean any more than good night, god bless you...-when that beautiful day comes, you'll never see another nigger kid come home from school crying because some motherfucker called him a nigger."
---Lenny Bruce


Just an alternative prospective. He did this bit a lot and most of the times it was far more indepth and meaningful but this is the one I found by googling.

Don't think we'll ever get to that point though, not in the current climate. We've gone the exact opposite direction and the word is still as hateful and charged as ever.

[ice4277]

Originally posted by Sharpieman
I think its more acceptable for black people to say rasict things. Just my opinion.

Why? Are you a big fan of the double standard?

[Tekneek]

Originally posted by Axxon
"Are There Any Niggers Here Tonight?"
[snipped out all the other stuff]
---Lenny Bruce

Lenny Bruce was a funny man. He supplied one of my wife's favorite remarks :

"If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses."

[Maple Leafs]

Well, apparently we now know what the "discomfort among the crew" was: apparently Tom Jackson was going to quit if Rush wasn't turfed.

Edit: Interesting article - Rush was right (http://slate.msn.com/id/2089193/)