Jim's Next Game... Just 10 Days Away? [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

Franklinnoble

10-13-2003, 06:05 PM

I'm thinking it could be one of the following:

- TCY2: The first was very well received. The College season is in full swing, and if he's made improvements that people want to see, it'd probably sell pretty well. Plus, keeping a lid on the title makes sense if this is the next project, as he wouldn't want to totally kill any sales of TCY between now and whenever he releases the game.

- Front Office Hockey: I don't know if Jim is a big hockey fan, but this could be a really cool game... only drawback is that it seems like EHM has cornered the market on this right now.

- Front Office Basketball: Probably a pro league version, but could go college... my guess is this is a long shot.

- Front Office Baseball: Lots of competition here, but with a statistically driven game like baseball, there's always room for improvement, and this sort of thing would fit well with Jim's fondness for statistical analysis. There's still time to cash in on World Series hype, but then it's a long off-season, and the demand for a new baseball game would be diminished, so I don't think this would be the best time to release this sort of game.

- Front Office Soccer: Highly unlikely, but you never know. There are enough Hattrick nuts around here that would buy it, and if it's multiplayer, all bets are off. The sour taste of the CM4 bugs also leave a window of opportunity open.

- Front Office Golf: Nah, I don't really think so, either... just thought I'd see how that sounded.

- Front Office NASCAR: Again, so unlikely I can't even imagine it, but I don't know jack about NASCAR, so I could be wrong.

- Front Office Horse Racing: Dear God, I can only hope. I would give Jim money for this now if he said this is what he's working on. I'd buy ten copies and give them to my friends. Nothing this good ever happens to me, though, so that makes this option a statistical impossibility.

These are the only sports I can think of that have the sort of deep statistical resources for the kind of games that Jim makes. Am I missing anything?

Franklinnoble

10-13-2003, 06:07 PM

Dola...

I am missing another longshot possibility...

- Front Office Boxing: It'd be cool to train boxers, but I don't know if you could make an in-depth strategy game out of it...

Bee

10-13-2003, 06:08 PM

It's not NASCAR, Jim already made that announcement.

The Afoci

10-13-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Bee
It's not NASCAR, Jim already made that announcement.

Or a woman's soccer league.

Bee

10-13-2003, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by The Afoci
Or a woman's soccer league.

Or a stripper simulation...

:(

cthomer5000

10-13-2003, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by The Afoci
Or a woman's soccer league.

it's also not curling or a political sim. (as per Jim).

My money is on Baseball, with TCY 2 being the 2nd most likely option.

Dutch

10-13-2003, 06:23 PM

I am partial to TCY2.

Now, I would like to see all of these suggestions, but I have to imagine which ones would be entertaining in the Jim Gindin format.

I think College Basketball would be a strong title that Jim would have fun writing. Baseballl, which just seems like a logical step away from football, is probably the ideal statistical geek programmers wet dream.

I'm not sure Hockey has enough stats to make it anything but a Solecismic Lite game. Unless it was the scope of the game that was epic - College/Semi-Pro/Pro/International...

Autoracing would only work with Jim if it included F1/NASCAR/IRL/CART and their minor leagues...that's the only way I could see player development mean anything.

Horsracing is something I am ignorant about, but I would imagine that the genre is so small that it wouldn't merit a serious attempt...unless it's like my thoughts on Hockey and encompass a much larger region besides the USA. But who cares about horse racing in Dubai that would buy that game??? But maybe I'm completely wrong.

The only other possibility that I see right now is FOF5.

So here is my betting lines...

TCY2 - 50%
FOF-Baseball - 20%
FOF-College Basketball - 15%
FOF-Hockey - 5%
FOF5 - 5%
Something else - 5%

I'll wager 5 dollars on TCY2!

Blade6119

10-13-2003, 06:27 PM

Jim recently said that TCY is the game that saved his company...he says he owes everything to that game...think he still think about that money gold mine?

lcjjdnh

10-13-2003, 07:03 PM

The reason I don't think TCY2 is next:

From solecismic.com

<b>My desire to break into new sports continues to grow, however.</b> In early 2003, I began work on a new simulation. In this field new challenges always beckon. It's been a tremendously rewarding experience.

panerd

10-13-2003, 07:07 PM

After Mizzou's victory over Nebraska I was getting the inkling to start another shot at glory with the Tigers. I wonder if I should wait until his new game comes out? Does the latest patch update to the Tiger 2003-4 season? (This is what I keep calling this season to my non-Tiger friends to piss them off) I guess I could check the site, but that seems like a lot of work.

JonInMiddleGA

10-13-2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Dear God, I can only hope. I would give Jim money for this now if he said this is what he's working on. I'd buy ten copies and give them to my friends. Nothing this good ever happens to me, though, so that makes this option a statistical impossibility.

Y'know, I could have written those exact words.

Only difference is that's how I feel about a deep NASCAR sim.

sabotai

10-13-2003, 07:10 PM

"My desire to break into new sports continues to grow, however. In early 2003, I began work on a new simulation. In this field new challenges always beckon. It's been a tremendously rewarding experience."

Don't forget that Jim recently said that because of certain publishing problems he had to switch games. That problem was with ViaTech. That tells me he will release the next game by CD. He has stated that a huge problem with FOF4 was that there were copies left over. He has stated that TCY has sold a lot of copies....

My conclusion, TCY2.

FrogMan

10-13-2003, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by lcjjdnh
The reason I don't think TCY2 is next:

From solecismic.com

<b>My desire to break into new sports continues to grow, however.</b> In early 2003, I began work on a new simulation. In this field new challenges always beckon. It's been a tremendously rewarding experience.

Yeah, but didn't we read somewhere that he had to change his plans at some point since that time? Maybe that would give some weight to the TCY2 possibility (starting work on a new sport, rnu into problem, fall back on something a bit more proven), but it's all pure speculation now, isn't it?

FM

FrogMan

10-13-2003, 07:12 PM

well, sab beat me to it...

Buzzbee

10-13-2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by sabotai
"My desire to break into new sports continues to grow, however. In early 2003, I began work on a new simulation. In this field new challenges always beckon. It's been a tremendously rewarding experience."

Don't forget that Jim recently said that because of certain publishing problems he had to switch games. That problem was with ViaTech. That tells me he will release the next game by CD. He has stated that a huge problem with FOF4 was that there were copies left over. He has stated that TCY has sold a lot of copies....

My conclusion, TCY2.

Ok, this is something I've wondered about, and perhaps people here can shed some light. Why would an issue with publishing cause Jim to change games? He sold FOF and FOF2 without a publisher, right? And did the same with TCY initially. Why would a publisher deal falling through cause him to shelf a game to start working on another?

ice4277

10-13-2003, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Y'know, I could have written those exact words.

Only difference is that's how I feel about a deep NASCAR sim.

I can picture the PBP commentary now:

"Rudd turns to the left...
Rudd continues turning to the left...
Rudd makes a turn to the left...
Rudd follows his turn to the left by angling to the left..."

Fritz

10-13-2003, 07:55 PM

folks never get tired of this

sabotai

10-13-2003, 08:13 PM

"Why would an issue with publishing cause Jim to change games? He sold FOF and FOF2 without a publisher, right? And did the same with TCY initially. Why would a publisher deal falling through cause him to shelf a game to start working on another?"

Because if he's going to self-publish a game (which he did with FOF4 as well), he wants to make sure he'll actually sell enough copies to make it profitable. He knows that will happen with a sequal to TCY. He does not know that will happen with a baseball, hockey, basketball, etc. game. FOF4 did not sell as well as Jim had hoped. (He still has CD copies available and it's been almost a year) Chances are, he'd sell less (initially) with an entirely new sport. I think his best bet to make money is to go with TCY2. Remember, the new policy of ViaTech is to not pay people for at least 4 months. If Jim is counting on revenue from his next product, that money has to come in when the game is released. And if he's going to self-publish again, he has to go to the well where he knows he'll find water. (Good analogy? ;) )

But of course, this i sjust guess work using logic, and we all know how much people hate logic. :D

It's also possible that Jim was working on a non-top 4 sports (Football, Baseball, Hockey, Basketball) and because of what happened, he switched to a major sport. But I'm betting on TCY2.

Tigercat

10-13-2003, 08:31 PM

What about a college basketball sim? It would be a different sport and a different direction, but at the same time, it could almost be a TCY2. Same type of recruiting and game play with the only differences made because of differences in sport. And plus, he wouldnt have to put together a full game control engine, just in game strategies and timeouts and such.

Buccaneer

10-13-2003, 08:41 PM

Based on the good point from Tigercat, my line is
TCY2 67%
College Hoops 33%

Maybe 50/50. Good call.

Axxon

10-13-2003, 08:45 PM

sabotai,

Nice analysis but that would mean that Jims entire future is just going to be TCY updates. This is his full time gig and he's always going to need money coming in as soon as he can get it. If he is only going to take the safe route then it's TCY clones forever.

Some would certainly be ok with that but TCY is actually my least favorite solecismic game. :(

Killebrew

10-13-2003, 08:56 PM

Lord please let it be hockey or baseball.... or even basketball. .... or multiplayer FOF.

tucker342

10-13-2003, 09:56 PM

I hope it's TCY 2.... That would be my top choice..

NYFAN

10-13-2003, 09:58 PM

I think it will be TCY2, but I wonder if the reason that TCY sold so many more copies than FOF4 was that because after 4 previous versions people just didn't want another pro version... a new game should sell more when you consider that he's essentially hitting the same market over and over.

korme

10-13-2003, 10:13 PM

Baseball, OOTP/Puresim is enough competition. Nahh... no way.

Basketball is covered as well.

Dammit Jim, just make TCY2.

MrBug708

10-13-2003, 10:21 PM

TCY-College Basketball would work nicely

Swaggs

10-13-2003, 10:32 PM

TCY-MrBug's Social Life is the game I would want to play. :)

MrBug708

10-13-2003, 10:33 PM

Would the basis be about a guy who has a baseball team in a fictional league who can never get over the hump?

Bad-example

10-13-2003, 10:36 PM

Whatever sport the next game is, here's hoping it is not a college sim. Recruiting and keeping players for 5 seasons maximum...blech.

Abe Sargent

10-13-2003, 11:25 PM

First of all, he wouldn't need to keep putting out annual TCYs to mine a gold field as long as he did what he currently does - update the game and patch it like he does. Let's face it, it's time for TCY2, we're ready and the market is ready. If he releases a game with realignment options in the future when conferences go amok, then this could be a great simulation. It's his money bear, so why wouldn't he do it.

Also note that other football options are available - not just college and pros. Front Office High School, Front Office Other Leagues (AFL, CFL, etc), Front Office Football Agent, Front Office Sports Media, etc.

I want womb to tomb FOF. Wouldn't it be something to have a baby and introduce the kid in FOF: Pop Warner. Then its FOF: High School. Follow local media stories, recruiters, and so forth. Then it's on to FOF:TCY where the college years begin. After that, enter the draft and it's FOF, the original and see how your player does. And after retirement, it's on to FOF: SPorts Commentary where your player has to compete with networks, bad sporting events, and other commentators to come out on top!

Now that would be something.

-Anxiety

sabotai

10-13-2003, 11:30 PM

"Nice analysis but that would mean that Jims entire future is just going to be TCY updates."

Not neseccarily. It would mean he'd make a TCY sequal every other game, only if his previous did not generate enough. I think he's going to TCY because FOF4 did not sell out like he had hoped. Had FOF4 sold out, I think he'd be moving on to other things. After TCY2, he'll probably continue with what he was doing before, and if that doesn't meet sales expectations, he'll go for TCY3, but if it does, maybe he'll move on to something else again.

IOW< you go to money well when you have to. I think, just from the sound of things, that Jim needs to. "TCY saved my company." I think he's trying to use TCY to go from "being saved" to "being comfortable". And then try to move on again.

"What about a college basketball sim? It would be a different sport and a different direction, but at the same time, it could almost be a TCY2."

I think Jim had said (a long time ago), that basketball was his least favorite sport, so I don't know if college hoops would be up on his list of "want-to-do"s. And I don't know how willing Jim would be to doing a college game without a pro counterpart.

Again, all speculation on my part...but that is why it's fun. :)

kingnebwsu

10-14-2003, 12:07 AM

TCY 2 Football would be awesome.

TCY Basketball would be sweet money.

FOF Baseball would be fine.

Anything else, I probably won't buy :(

44Niners

10-14-2003, 01:57 AM

I'm hoping for High School Football

Rich1033

10-14-2003, 03:40 AM

The more comments from Jim that I read, the more certain I become of him next game. TCY 2 will be be released next, and baseball is what was ditched/put on hold. The reasoning being that baseball is the game he has always wanted to make, then TCY 2 replaced it because of reasons that we have already mentioned.

condors

10-14-2003, 06:10 AM

i could care less what the game is based on but i really want to play something "fun" again

FBPro

10-14-2003, 06:18 AM

I wouldn't mind TCY with about 80-90% LESS recruting.

Subby

10-14-2003, 07:01 AM

As long as it isn't college sports, I'll be happy...

Buzzbee

10-14-2003, 07:12 AM

My thoughts on this are that TCY2 is very likely. However, I'm not totally sold on the idea that TCY2 is it. The argument is pretty strong. He was working on a new game in a new sport. I believe Jim admitted to that. A publishing deal fell through, so he shelved that project an moved to a different game. Logic would suggest that rather than switching to an entirely new sport again he would go back to something familiar so that he could get something out the door. It wouldn't be FOF5 since he just released FOF4. My gut says that he simply accelerated his plans to work on TCY2 next year, and moved it up to this year.

The only thing that bugs me is the timing. It would seem a little odd or awkward to release TCY2 near the end of the season. Yes, people will be interested, but during the peak of the recruiting season would make more sense. However, it might actually be good because he would get the pop from the initial buzz, and then another pop when next season starts up and he updates the game with a patch (updated rosters and conferences).

Just my $0.02.

Ksyrup

10-14-2003, 07:18 AM

It depends on what stage the game is at. Usually, Jim will not release any info until the game is about ready. Given that he gave up/shelved a new game a few months back and is about ready to make an announcement on the replacement, my guess is that it has to be something that was already a functioning game that he has updated, just based on the timing. Knowing the way he researches games, there's just no way he was able to research AND code a game in this short a time frame.

Of course, this might all be wrong if his announcement is that he's just starting to code a new game. But that's not his style, so I doubt it. My guess is TCY2.

cincyreds

10-14-2003, 07:30 AM

A good NBA sim would be nice....

but if that isn't it, than there is Total Pro Basketball to look forward too.

Bee

10-14-2003, 07:32 AM

I'd be interested to see Jim's reaction as he read this thread. :D

cuervo72

10-14-2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by Buzzbee
My thoughts on this are that TCY2 is very likely. However, I'm not totally sold on the idea that TCY2 is it. The argument is pretty strong. He was working on a new game in a new sport. I believe Jim admitted to that. A publishing deal fell through, so he shelved that project an moved to a different game. Logic would suggest that rather than switching to an entirely new sport again he would go back to something familiar so that he could get something out the door. It wouldn't be FOF5 since he just released FOF4. My gut says that he simply accelerated his plans to work on TCY2 next year, and moved it up to this year.

The only thing that bugs me is the timing. It would seem a little odd or awkward to release TCY2 near the end of the season. Yes, people will be interested, but during the peak of the recruiting season would make more sense. However, it might actually be good because he would get the pop from the initial buzz, and then another pop when next season starts up and he updates the game with a patch (updated rosters and conferences).

Just my $0.02.

I agree with most of this, and I too think it will be TCY2. TCY was one of Jim's big moneymakers, saving his company. Let's not forget that Jim needs money to keep going. FOF4 was a year ago, and didn't sell quite as well as he might have hoped (though not bad). If he was going to have a major delay with a publisher, that would push back profits from his game which branches off into a new sport. So while that gets settled, he has to bring in revenue somehow, right? Well, TCY serves as a basis for TCY2 (I also think it is too early for FOF5 when TCY2 hasn't been offered), and we've given a lot of suggestions for TCY2, so write TCY2 to have some cash flow, they go back to the other game when things clear up.

As for the timing....yeah, I guess the timing might not be the best. But if it comes on the heels of the bowls, when we start to miss football, that could be a plus too.

Lazy Eye

10-14-2003, 08:22 AM

http://www.temporary-insanity.com/darko/caps/darko226.jpg

Buccaneer

10-14-2003, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by FBPro
I wouldn't mind TCY with about 80-90% LESS recruting.

For someone (like me) who thinks TCY is 90% recruiting, that would be a devastating thought.

Bee

10-14-2003, 08:35 AM

I don't mind the "amount" of recruiting, but I think it needs "spicing up". More interaction, more information, etc.

vex

10-14-2003, 08:39 AM

I would like recruiting to be more indepth.

Bee

10-14-2003, 08:41 AM

yep. Deeper is probably a better word than spicy. :D

Buzzbee

10-14-2003, 09:45 AM

One other thought. Jim has said that TCY is still selling. He mentioned that the Downloads of TCY have recently surpassed the number of CD's he sold. Since TCY still seems to have "some" legs, would Jim announce TCY2? It'd be like coming out with the DVD of Lord of the Rings while it is still in theaters.

Alas, I think the preponderance of evidence is that it is TCY2. Even if there are a few TCY sales tricking down the pipeline, it won't compare to the rush for TCY2, thus justifying the release.

albionmoonlight

10-14-2003, 10:22 AM

Not that one man's opinion matters, but I hope that it is not TCY2. I just never got into TCY. The large rosters combined with the large number of teams and the 5 year time frame on the players made it hard for me to make a connection to my team.

I could do college BB--smaller rosters. And I could do pro basketball or baseball. But I think that I would pass on TCY2--unless reviews from this board acknowledged it as the best thing since sliced bread.

However, based on this thread, it seems like I am in the minority in hoping that it is not TCY2.

Ben E Lou

10-14-2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Bee
yep. Deeper is probably a better word than spicy. :D Easy there!

MrBug708

10-14-2003, 11:25 AM

What about TCY Baseball?

Dutch

10-14-2003, 01:00 PM

College Baseball and College Hockey are probably not popular enough to make. At least not yet, maybe when Solecismic Software employs about 20 programmers, Jim may set one off on that task.

And the only reason I thought FOF5 might be an option was because of the FOF4 dissapointment. The sooner Jim can remove that blemish from his record, the happier he will probably be. Not saying FOF4 was bad, just that it wasn't a good or great game. It was just okay.

Bee

10-14-2003, 01:10 PM

That's actually a good point Dutch about FOF5. I think it's still an outside chance, but that could be his thinking.

cuervo72

10-14-2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Dutch

And the only reason I thought FOF5 might be an option was because of the FOF4 dissapointment. The sooner Jim can remove that blemish from his record, the happier he will probably be. Not saying FOF4 was bad, just that it wasn't a good or great game. It was just okay.

But if FOF4 was viewed as a "disappointment", wouldn't less bother with FOF5, thinking it would just be another disappointment? Better to build off of the success TCY, have a hit and ride the buzz about TCY2 to bring more entheusiasm to FOF5 and other endeavors.

Critch

10-14-2003, 01:16 PM

My guess:

FOF5 - a merging of FOF4 +TCY to bring pro and college football into one package. Choose whether to play as a pro-coach or college, or try a career where after years of excelling in the college game you can move on to be successful in the pro-game like Steve Spurrier (only with success in the pro-game).

And it'll have multi-player too.

Bee

10-14-2003, 01:17 PM

I think if Jim were to release FOF5 that significantly improves over FOF4, then it will sell very well. I think the problem with FOF4 was he rewrote the entire code which took a lot of time and there just wasn't that many improvements over previous versions. I think it's an outside shot, but still a possibility.

TCY2 of course is what I am expecting.

HornedFrog Purple

10-14-2003, 01:20 PM

I am hoping it is TCY 2 myself.

FOF 4 is a good game and its a solid engine but it still had that spreadsheet feel to it. If it is TCY 2 I hope its a next-gen TCY and not just a makeover. I also hope that he expands his beta testing pool and let some of the guys here help fix whatever problems arise.

Franklinnoble

10-14-2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Critch
My guess:

FOF5 - a merging of FOF4 +TCY to bring pro and college football into one package. Choose whether to play as a pro-coach or college, or try a career where after years of excelling in the college game you can move on to be successful in the pro-game like Steve Spurrier (only with success in the pro-game).

And it'll have multi-player too.

It'll never happen, but, hey, it's nice to fantasize about nice things... After all, you wouldn't think of Roseanne Barr in a latex thong while you were trying to milk the lizard, would you?

Easy Mac

10-14-2003, 01:24 PM

FOF+TCY would take too much processing power for today's computers, given the memory issues Jim has said prior (all stats and processes in memory at the same time). Its my dream to some day have 1 game where I can simulate an entire sports universe at once, but I think its still a long way off.

RPI-Fan

10-14-2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by cincyreds
A good NBA sim would be nice....

but if that isn't it, than there is Total Pro Basketball to look forward too.

"Good NBA sim"...

You haven't played FBB, I assume. Go get the demo, and then buy it. You won't regret it.

RPI-Fan

10-14-2003, 01:56 PM

Yea', surprised there hasn't been more clamoring about multiplayer.

I know he's said it's not his thing, but with the need for a moneymaker, multiplayer would sure do the trick. The more I think about it, the more I'd rate it as the 2nd-most likely (behind TCY2).

Also, at first I was not looking forward to the possibility to TCY2. But now as I reflect on my experiences with TCY, a good solid improvement (ala FOF to FOF2) could be in order. What kind of changes would you guys look for in a TCY2?

Ksyrup

10-14-2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Easy Mac
FOF+TCY would take too much processing power for today's computers, given the memory issues Jim has said prior (all stats and processes in memory at the same time). Its my dream to some day have 1 game where I can simulate an entire sports universe at once, but I think its still a long way off.

Not to mention, why would he sell two games for the price of one? Presumably, people wouldn't want to pay even as little as $50-$60 for a combo game of FOF5/TCY2. And the way it is now, he gets $35 for each game separately. That just makes no sense from an economic standpoint.

MrBug708

10-14-2003, 02:37 PM

I dont think the popularity of a TCY:Baseball in the real would would have much affect on the game, but I could be well off. I myself am not a fan of College Baseball in the slighest, but the fact that it's a sports game with a little to no market in a big 3 sport could very well make it fairly popular.

Wishful thinking on my part however

Lazy Eye

10-14-2003, 02:58 PM

http://www.temporary-insanity.com/darko/caps/darko149.jpg

MizzouRah

10-14-2003, 03:09 PM

Oh how I wish FOHockey was name of his new title. TCY had too much micro-management in it for me to really get into it, so TCY 2 isn't appealing to me. Although that could change quickly depending on the features of the game.

FOF5 would be a shocker, imo. With all the football games out or that have come out this year, I think it's too late of a start - not to mention competeting with TPF.

Todd

Buzzbee

10-14-2003, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by MizzouRah
Oh how I wish FOHockey was name of his new title. TCY had too much micro-management in it for me to really get into it, so TCY 2 isn't appealing to me. Although that could change quickly depending on the features of the game.

Todd

Talking about micro-management, the latest patch for TCY added a new screen which let you specify time management for players based on their position. This greatly reduced the micro-management for be because I could set the time management for QB's, RB's, CB's, etc. as a group. Then I could tweak individual ratings as needed. Therefore the tedium of setting each individual player was gone. I only had to tweak a few individual players. I did make a suggestion to Jim that in TCY2 he should allow us to further define the group settings by year of experience. In other words, incoming freshman WR's could be set with different settings than 5th year senior WR's.

The fact that he added this screen further bolsters the idea that TCY2 will be the next release from Solecismic, at least in my mind.

sabotai

10-14-2003, 03:25 PM

"Since TCY still seems to have "some" legs, would Jim announce TCY2? It'd be like coming out with the DVD of Lord of the Rings while it is still in theaters."

They actually do release DVDs when it's still in theaters, but not that many theaters. :)

The Matrix: Reloaded just came out on DVD, and that's still playing in 49 theaters. The Itialian Job is still playing in 103 theaters. 28 Days Later is still playing in 28 theaters.

Not that this info is useful... :)

The Afoci

10-14-2003, 03:29 PM

One thing I would love to see in TCY2 would be 'athlete' recruits. Guys who could be an option QB, LB, S, CB, RB, WR, or TE. Also, I would like to see the ability to switch positions easier. If you switch a WR to CB, it shouldn't make him worthless.

Dutch

10-14-2003, 08:26 PM

The Matrix: Reloaded just came out on DVD, and that's still playing in 49 theaters. The Itialian Job is still playing in 103 theaters. 28 Days Later is still playing in 28 theaters.

Not that this info is useful... :)

How in the world did you come up with that information!? You're right, it's not useful, but I admit, I'm impressed! For some reason...

sabotai

10-14-2003, 08:30 PM

Linky (http://movies.yahoo.com/boxoffice/latest/rank.html)

MizzouRah

10-14-2003, 09:22 PM

Maybe it's been brought up before, but upon going to Solecismic.com to see if maybe I could find some 'early' news on the new game, this sentence tells you that it's either FOF5 or TCY2.

Welcome to Solecismic Software, an entertainment software company dedicated to producing cutting-edge career football simulations.

Todd

Eaglesfan27

10-14-2003, 09:25 PM

Or FOF: The High School Years ;)

sabotai

10-14-2003, 09:27 PM

Mizzou, that's been there for quite awhile. Likely that Jim is just waiting to finish a non-football sim to change that.

JeeberD

10-14-2003, 10:06 PM

Exactly. He probably doesn't update his site all that often. I'm pretty sure it still mentions the "up-coming FOF On-line" that has been dead for about two years now...

Aha, here's the exact quote...

Meanwhile, development continues on an online version of Front Office Football, which will be part of EA.com's games channel, exposed to tens of millions of AOL subscribers. There is no release date yet for the online version.

Tekneek

10-14-2003, 10:15 PM

It's a puzzle game. He is going to announce he has left the 'work hard for a really long time on a simulation game to be ripped up on the messageboards' business, and make fun, but comparitively simpler, puzzle games to keep the average person happy and distracted from their regular lives.

That genre is actually a growing and thriving area of game sales, that independent developers have really been able to do well at.

The Afoci

10-14-2003, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Tekneek
It's a puzzle game. He is going to announce he has left the 'work hard for a really long time on a simulation game to be ripped up on the messageboards' business, and make fun, but comparitively simpler, puzzle games to keep the average person happy and distracted from their regular lives.

That genre is actually a growing and thriving area of game sales, that independent developers have really been able to do well at.

I like you man, but you are crazy man.

Raven Hawk

10-15-2003, 12:32 AM

Methinks it will be TCY2, but I have to agree with Franklin, I would like to see a good Horse Race sim game. However, whoever developed this Horse Race sim would have a hard time selling it to anybody but perhaps me and FranklinNoble.

How about FOF: Colossal Squid Hunting?

Axxon

10-15-2003, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by Anxiety
First of all, he wouldn't need to keep putting out annual TCYs to mine a gold field as long as he did what he currently does - update the game and patch it like he does. Let's face it, it's time for TCY2, we're ready and the market is ready. If he releases a game with realignment options in the future when conferences go amok, then this could be a great simulation. It's his money bear, so why wouldn't he do it.

Also note that other football options are available - not just college and pros. Front Office High School, Front Office Other Leagues (AFL, CFL, etc), Front Office Football Agent, Front Office Sports Media, etc.

I want womb to tomb FOF. Wouldn't it be something to have a baby and introduce the kid in FOF: Pop Warner. Then its FOF: High School. Follow local media stories, recruiters, and so forth. Then it's on to FOF:TCY where the college years begin. After that, enter the draft and it's FOF, the original and see how your player does. And after retirement, it's on to FOF: SPorts Commentary where your player has to compete with networks, bad sporting events, and other commentators to come out on top!

Now that would be something.

-Anxiety

You know, I used to think this would be great but it's one of those things that sounds good until you think about it. In your example, what do you play?

Are you the athlete or a coach or a scout or an agent or what? To track the guy you have to be something and the only thing that makes sense in that regard is being the player. Nobody else associates with an athlete over such a long career. This wouldn't be a Front Office kind of product.

If you mean playing the game as a coach in Pop Warner. Stop. Export to high school. Stop. etc, etc then there's no continuity at all. By the time you have finished one athlete, and lets face it, when I play a coaching sim I follow more than one athlete per team I coach, and get back to Pop Warner, you'd have been simming 30 years or so "in the sims future" with FO Sports commentary.

Or, do you sim one year Pop warner, then the same year high school, same year college, same year pro, same year commentary? Yikes, there'd be even less continuity there and I don't think too many people can even keep up with most people on the various team members in one league much less this many. I know I sure couldn't.

So, while it sounds good, and I'd certainly be interested in seeing if it could be done, I'd say it's an unrealistic pipe dream that would never play as well as it sounds.

We can dream though. :)

Sharpieman

10-15-2003, 02:16 PM

I'm going to put all my money on TCY2. It's not going to be baseball, and thank god for that. 2 reasons why, it doesn't make much sense to release a baseball game at the end of the season. And second, Jim has already said that baseball stats tell you too much about the players abilities. I forgot where he said this, but I know he has, so it can't be baseball. It won't be hockey, because there aren't enough hardcore hockey fans to buy enough games. And quite honestly, who gives a sh*t about hockey? Basketball, I don't know why but I can't see it happening.

Solecismic

10-15-2003, 04:23 PM

I said this? Whoa. Don't you think that a career-play baseball game might be better modeled with raw abilities than how I do things with FOF? My approach to baseball would be very different from my approach to football.

And of course, with each new game, I can reinvent myself as a programmer. I learn whenever I work on a new version. Things that appear to you as rigid beliefs may be just old, limiting design decisions or huge time-savers (like the rigid league size - who wants to spend months working on a dynamic scheduler or force people to type in their own schedules?)

Names can be edited in FOF4, but not in TCY. It's a major change in how player records are stored, and could not be done without ruining old saved games. It's not a very complex change, just a design choice that I changed when it became apparent that many of you really wanted it.

I'm enjoying all this speculation. Maybe I should wait another week to make an announcement (just kidding).

A couple of points....

I think I may have overdid the negativity about FOF4 sales. As far as this year alone is concerned, FOF4 has slightly outsold TCY. Neither is selling well enough right now to support us. Of course, I've been so busy with the new game and the baby that I haven't done one shred of PR this year. So that's probably my fault.

TCY has done quite well for a text sim and helped pick up the FOF4 slack. I also advertised it, something I didn't do for FOF4. As far at TCY's being a golden anything in terms of revenue, no. I'd still be better off financially if I had remained doing what I was doing before this. But this is a lot more fun.

People have asked a lot about multi-player. With the dramatic surge in forum participation the last three years, I think multi-player functionality is becoming much more important. I'm probably later than most to join that bandwagon, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. I don't want to host the servers for 1,000 leagues, as EA imagined multi-player. But I think we've reached a point where it's feasible for one person to run his own multi-player league, emailing files back and forth. Those file sizes were a barrier three years ago. Today, that's not the case.

Now, I know I left more clues around here about the new game in the past. I think you're forgetting some of them. I should get QuikSand to help me create a puzzle with the release announcement.

sabotai

10-15-2003, 04:29 PM

"who wants to spend months working on a dynamic scheduler"

Me. :D

"Now, I know I left more clues around here about the new game in the past. I think you're forgetting some of them."

That's it. After dinner, I'm going to comb the old messages again and I will figure it out!!

Maple Leafs

10-15-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Solecismic
I should get QuikSand to help me create a puzzle with the release announcement. 2/3: The College Years

ice4277

10-15-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Sharpieman
And quite honestly, who gives a sh*t about hockey?

Well at least you're not making any blanket statements here.

sabotai

10-15-2003, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by sabotai
That's it. After dinner, I'm going to comb the old messages again and I will figure it out!!

....to hell with it. I don't care that much to spend my night reading old posts...

albionmoonlight

10-15-2003, 04:50 PM

Well, we know that he had planned a WUSA sim and had to scrap it when the league folded, and then an NBA sim, but had to scrap it when he realized that the NBA sucks and no one cares about it anymore. So it will have to be something that he could program and distribute in a couple of weeks.

Front Office Pong?

WSUCougar

10-15-2003, 04:55 PM

Front Office Child-Rearing: The Infant Year

followed by...

Front Office Child-Rearing: The Toddler Years

And then they'll be no more Solecisimic, because Jim will have burst into flames and vanished into thin air.

;)

sabotai

10-15-2003, 05:20 PM

Ok, I got bored....I found this gem. Jim lays a smackdown on rexalllsc.

"Oh, and rexall, you threw me a bit with a comment that led me to believe you were someone I had a phone argument with (who I then mistakenly called Gabe before reviewing old records). Can we keep guessing? What do I win if I guess correctly? An end to the jihad? Your hattrick team? A fine merlot (my favorite whine)? I promise I won't even ban you from purchasing FOF4. I could really use all the sales I can get."

Maybe Jim is working on FOF: The Destroy rexalllsc Years

vex

10-15-2003, 05:21 PM

Jim knows Hattrick? Interesting.

JonInMiddleGA

10-15-2003, 05:23 PM

I should get QuikSand to help me create a puzzle with the release announcement.

I always figured Jim reads the boards far more than some people think ;)

sabotai

10-15-2003, 05:24 PM

5-16-2003 : "My dad was a professor at Sheffield University when I was born, so I'm a huge Blades fan.

Or at least as huge a one as you can find among those who don't know a thing about footie."

Does not know a thing about soccer. Let's rule that out.

vex

10-15-2003, 05:25 PM

But he does know Hattrick.

JeeberD

10-15-2003, 05:28 PM

Well, he and I were in the same SimSports College Basketball league way back in the day. So hopefully we can't discount college hoops...

Franklinnoble

10-15-2003, 05:28 PM

From just a few days ago:

This brings up another question... many people have told me FOF4 can be a bit tedious, though it obviously has more function than past versions.

From reading email and a lot of forum posts, I think it's because of the split between positions. Some NFL teams are really anal about this, and their LDE would never play RDE unless there was an emergency, or an intervening training camp. Other teams may switch if it's third down.

The penalty for making a switch like that in FOF4 is very slight, except when it comes to offensive tackles, because most teams want their top tackle at LT.

So, my question is "was the split the reason you didn't embrace FOF4, and if so, should it be eliminated, or is there a better way to handle it, given that every position does have subtle differences?"

Seems late in the game to be asking this question for FOF5, but who knows?

Franklinnoble

10-15-2003, 05:31 PM

Another clue?

Most of the nicknames in the names file are just spur of the moment. Some were grabbed from the Baseball Encyclopedia. And a handful, like that one, come from stories like that.

Franklinnoble

10-15-2003, 05:33 PM

More clues...

I could announce that Gregory is teething and making life fairly miserable around here. Would I get the sticky back then?

Seriously, the reason for the announcement delay has something to do with uncertainty about what I want to do with the product I'm working on.

I am leaning toward electronic distribution. But a recent change in the management of ViaTech leaves me reluctant to go that particular route. Not that I don't believe they'll support the product, but that changes to their payment approach means that it'll take about four months to receive the proceeds from sales rather than about 45 days. I think that's just ridiculous, given that they're holding on to money you have already paid, but they've had recent problems with fraudulent Caribbean credit cards, and don't want to be left holding the bag.

So, if I end up leaving ViaTech, please don't take that as any threat to existing licenses or dissatisfaction with electronic licensing in general. As long as you read the instructions and are willing to check out ViaTech's FAQs, it's better copy protection than my serial number codes and less prone to error.

Bone Gavel is right about the CD issue. I still have about 10% of my original inventory of FOF4. TCY sold out of a larger original batch (I noticed the lack of buzz, too, and was more conservative) in three months. And in the last few months, I actually reached the point where there are more electronic sales of TCY than CD sales. TCY has saved my company, no doubt about it.

Obviously, nothing tremendously stickyworthy about this. But it still made my day, more or less, to see that people cared enough to sticky my relatively generic ramblings.

Franklinnoble

10-15-2003, 05:37 PM

Somebody page Kickstand... he's good at this stuff...

What's really strange to me is the concept that us sim developers hate the competition and seek to destroy each other.

I've had email discussions with most of the others in this business, even met a couple of them, and everything has been positive and friendly.

We're rooting for each other's success. One, because this is a very unusual profession and there just aren't that many of us. And two, because the success of one will eventually translate to success for the entire genre.

Let's say TPF breaks out as a hit and gets a lot of notice in the gaming industry as a whole. All of a sudden publishers start showing interest in making their own similar games. And the public starts showing more interest in the genre as well. That's going to help me in the long run.

Anything that spreads the word about sports text sims is good. I benefitted greatly from the success of Baseball Mogul. I'd like to believe that my success with FOF helped others start in some small way. We all benefit from the mass appeal of CM. Now might be .400's time to thrive and help lead the way. It's all good.

Franklinnoble

10-15-2003, 05:39 PM

I've got it! Front Office Publishing!

When I "retire" from whatever career I wind up in (now that my WUSA sim is dead, I have to find a new line of work), I intend to try and become a novelist. I worked for seven years in the newspaper business, much of it through a freelance relationship with a local newspaper while I went to college.

1) If you're confident in your work, absolutely try and publish. For short stories, I'd go out and find every magazine out there that has printed short stories in your genre.

2) Yes, once. I placed second in the short fiction category of Michigan's Hopwood awards. Contests are nice ego boosts, but again, watch for the scams.

3) Other than my newspaper work, I've reviewed for Computer Gaming World (I had to quit when I began writing FOF - which is a shame because I finally worked my way up to getting a share of the major releases). I have not tried to sell any fiction.

There's an excellent book out there, Writer's Market, which is published every year. From what I've heard, you NEED this book if you want to sell your writing, whether it's short story, novel or script.

sabotai

10-15-2003, 05:40 PM

If it's not TCY, I am guess Baseball. Jim seems to post ina lot of baseball threads, what Franklin just gave would imply that Jim reads Baseball Encyclopedias. The only sports encyclopedias or almanacs I have are for sports that I am working on a sim for (guess which 3...Oh, that's right. This is Jim's guessing thread. Sorry.) But of course, that doesn't mean much. I'm sure lots of people buy these encyclopedias and are not sim developers. STILL, it suggests Jim loves baseball.

And what he said before in this thread.

"Don't you think that a career-play baseball game might be better modeled with raw abilities than how I do things with FOF? My approach to baseball would be very different from my approach to football."

He's thought about it enough to conclude that he would use raw abilities over statistical outcome-like attributes. That's a lot of thinking.

My guesses at this point: TCY2 or Baseball. The only thing forcing me to not conclude baseball is because the season is almost over, and Jim's record shows him releasing at the beginning or middle of the sports season.

JeeberD

10-15-2003, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by sabotai
The only thing forcing me to not conclude baseball is because the season is almost over, and Jim's record shows him releasing at the beginning or middle of the sports season.

Which lends some support to college basketball... :D

vtbub

10-15-2003, 05:45 PM

My guess is that a basis of a baseball game is there, but TCY, or College Hoops.

sabotai

10-15-2003, 05:46 PM

Yes JeeberD, you still have a string to cling to. :D

sabotai

10-15-2003, 05:51 PM

I found out something else!!!!

"1) Batting second in a sixth-grade baseball game, our leadoff hitter was drilled in the ribs by a local pitching sensation named Jim Harbaugh. Now this was the toughest guy in our school, and he was bent over on the sideline, crying, clearly out of the game. Fighting off tears of fear myself, I closed my eyes and stood practically at third base while he fired three strikes past me. Fortunately, some sort of innings limit had him out of the game by the fourth inning, so I didn't have to get back in there."

Jim's a wimp!!!

:D

RPI-Fan

10-15-2003, 05:59 PM

Oh, FWIW, Jim was interested enough in SimSports for a while to write a program for the FOF community that determined your best lineup.

So there's definitely interest there. But he has mentioned nary a thing about basketball with regard to developing, so I don't think it's what's coming (my money is still on TCY2).

College baseball would be damn cool, though...

NYFAN

10-15-2003, 06:16 PM

With the mention of college baseball, a lot of thoughts came to my head. I had honestly never thought of it. But I think the most compelling argument is that it would give him an in to the professional game. Think about it, a lot of people would buy a college baseball game because it's something different and not on the market. But, then next year he could come out with a pro version that people would have to buy in order to import their college players. This would give him an automatic niche into the professional game that he would miss if he started with the pro game. This would definitely be an awesome business move if that is what he does.

illinifan999

10-15-2003, 06:26 PM

Not that this would happen, but imagine if he said that his announcement was that he's retiring from programming to "develop" his kid. ;)

sabotai

10-15-2003, 06:27 PM

illinifan....that's not funny.

:D

The Afoci

10-15-2003, 06:32 PM

I am still hoping it involves lesbians in some fashion.

Draft Dodger

10-15-2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Solecismic
Of course, I've been so busy with the new game and the baby that I haven't done one shred of PR this year

as opposed to previous years in which...???

(sorry, couldn't resist).

ok, seriously, I firmly believe that the original plans were for a baseball game. It sounds like somewhere along the way he ran into a snag on this and had to change directions. My suspicion is that after the setback, he would be heading back to familiar territory, which would be TCY2.

sabotai

10-15-2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by The Afoci
I am still hoping it involves lesbians in some fashion.

*sigh*...ALWAYS with the lesbians...

I agree. :D

Franklinnoble

10-15-2003, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by The Afoci
I am still hoping it involves lesbians in some fashion.

Why would anybody buy a WNBA or LPGA text sim?

The Afoci

10-15-2003, 07:17 PM

Actually a career porn simulation would be great. Start as an upstart whore in the 5th grade, extra points for scoring with junior high guys. Then in your late teens, you have to balance orgies with your drug addictions and when you are 60, you start your granny porn career. Don't throw out a hip!

You have set a new penis in ass record with 1,503,371 over a 50 year porn career.

You have had more hairless hair pie than something that has ate tons of hairless hair pie.

Those are just some of the records and events you can achieve. If your porn career goes down hill, you just start selling it on the streets to WNBA and LPGA players. Groupie lovin'.

The Afoci

10-15-2003, 07:18 PM

I just thought of another one.

Your last film, Me and my Vacuum wasn't recieved very well in the Butch Lesbian Market, your agent/pimp recommends you do another of the She-Male flicks and pay back the $50 he borrowed you for smack.

ice4277

10-15-2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by NYFAN
Think about it, a lot of people would buy a college baseball game because it's something different and not on the market.

The Afoci's 'Penis in the Ass' porn game would sell more than a college baseball game.

MizzouRah

10-15-2003, 08:58 PM

I bet Skydog's beta testing the game right now.

;)

Todd

Eaglesfan27

10-15-2003, 11:16 PM

Wouldn't beta testing two games at once be rather complicated ;) Or am I being dense?

MizzouRah

10-15-2003, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Eaglesfan27
Wouldn't beta testing two games at once be rather complicated ;) Or am I being dense?

Maybe he helped code TPF. TPF is really the same as FOF5. ;) Jim built the engine and .400 studios did the graphics.

Todd

Eaglesfan27

10-15-2003, 11:32 PM

Ahh, that would explain how TPF could have all of those great features for a "first" build ;)

Kam

10-16-2003, 11:58 AM

For those of you who think there is a chance that the game is baseball related, I offer this thought.

Assuming Jim is not going to announce the game until it is near enough completion for him to be certain that the game will work, one would assume that the game engine is nearly complete by now.

If the game were a baseball simulation there is no better way to gain PR than by having his game tell us that the Cubs were going to lose three straight or that the Red Sox/Yankees would go to a 7th game.

Think of the possiblity:
Jim posts the information of his game this afternoon and offers a prediction on tonight's Game 7. Everyone watches the game and as the 9th inning winds down, we begin to realize that the game happened exactly as Jim's FOB: Major League Baseball said it would.

I bet he would get a couple of hundred pre-orders tonight and ESPN, CNN/SI and every other sports media outlet (not to mention bookies) would be calling Jim.

The best PR possible.

Therefore, I have to believe that the chances of the game being a baseball game are slim.

Eaglesfan27

10-16-2003, 05:52 PM

Tomorrow is the official start of Midnight Madness for College Basketball. Will we see Jim's announcement tomorrow? ;)

Noop

10-16-2003, 06:12 PM

Seriously I don't think I can take this tease anymore... Jim have a heart and just tell us( or me PM's work fine :)) But on another note if its baseball my advice have a one year demo, if its basketball I hope you can get it right cause many have tried and have failed in my opinion. Now for what I really want The College Years 2... please tell me that you have
spring practice
fall practice
unoffical and offical visits
in home visits
indepth season preview
indepth season review
Bonafide Stud freshman (they come in as very good every like 3 years)
Coaching Staff
The ability to decline a bowl invite( like going to the gator bowl for 50 years str8)
lesbians
How about hosting summer camps for highschool kids (i.e. your own personal camps, nike camps, elite 11, etc.)

Okay I'm done

:)

noop