OT: Fantasy Football ruling...

[Two Thirds Rectal Trout]

Just a tiebreaker situation in my league. Our league rules state head to head is the first tie breaker and then points. Because of the unbalance # of teams in the league, we don't play each other 2X.

3-Way tie for last playoff spot. Head-to-Head records and standing in points among the 3.

Team A beat B and split with C. (2-1). #2 in points
Team B lost to a and split with C. (1-2). #1 in points
Team C split with A and B. (2-2). #3 in points

I state head to head should be based on winning percentage based on the NFL and make A a playoff team.

Commish believes no one has head to head because no team is unbeaten vs the other 2 so, B would be the team.

Anyone else have a similiar situation?

[mckerney]

NFL Tiebreakers (http://www.49erswebzone.com/nfltiebreaker.shtml)

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.


If this were followed it looks like team A would have it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let's see here ... 3-way tie, head to head it looks like ...

A = 2-1 .667
B = 1-2 .333
C = 2-2 .500

Team A has the advantage, ending the tie and claiming the playoff spot IMO.

[Samdari]

I don't think you can go with straight h2h there. There is a different number of games, and the NFL takes great pains to make sure comparisons like that do not happen. The only way a 3 way with uneven number of h2h games occurs in the NFL now is between 3 teams from 3 different divisions, where some have played and others have not. In this case, h2h only matters if one team has beaten all others in the tiebreaker, or one team has lost to all the others. Since nobody in your tie swept, that tiebreaker would not apply.

Note that the 3 way tiebreaker McKerney posted does have h2h win% as the #1 tiebreaker, but that is the 3 way for clubs in a division, in which the teams will always have played the same number of h2h games. The tiebreaker for 3+ teams when the 3 are all from different divisions is:

1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
3+ you don't need to know, you go to points.

So, if your league is broken into divisions, I think the answer is simple, have the tie broken among division mates, then compare that winner to the third team. If your league is just one big pile of teams, there is definitely a fight, as there are two sets of rules applied in the NFL.

I happen to agree with your commish btw. The NFL's 3 way division tiebreaking rule should not apply in my opinion, as it was written to cover situations where everyone has played the same # of h2h games. In the non-division 3-way rule, nobody swept, so noone wins via head to head.

EDIT: Last note. All of the above applies if you are trying to mimic NFL rules. Your commish should apply the rules for your league and then work to get them made more specific for next year.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Two Thirds Rectal Trout
Just a tiebreaker situation in my league. Our league rules state head to head is the first tie breaker and then points. Because of the unbalance # of teams in the league, we don't play each other 2X.

3-Way tie for last playoff spot. Head-to-Head records and standing in points among the 3.

Team A beat B and split with C. (2-1). #2 in points
Team B lost to a and split with C. (1-2). #1 in points
Team C split with A and B. (2-2). #3 in points

I state head to head should be based on winning percentage based on the NFL and make A a playoff team.

Commish believes no one has head to head because no team is unbeaten vs the other 2 so, B would be the team.

Anyone else have a similiar situation?

EDIT: I had a complete reverse on my feelings.. see post below.

[cthomer5000]

On second look, this is an inrecidbly complex situation. I don't see how team C has a claim in any case. But A and B can both make pretty strong arguments.

Fortunately/unfortunately, my league lets yahoo! sort it out.

[TroyF]

I'm with Samdari, the NFL rules are clearly based on an equal number of games against each team. Without that, there cannot be a fair determination as to who the better team is. I don't think it is fair to penalize team B or give credit to team A simply because they played one less game.

I think my choice would be team B based off of their better overall point total. (something that all teams had an equal chance at)

TroyF

[Two Thirds Rectal Trout]

Originally posted by Samdari
EDIT: Last note. All of the above applies if you are trying to mimic NFL rules. Your commish should apply the rules for your league and then work to get them made more specific for next year.

Unfortunately.. this is the problem. Head to Head was never clearly defined as to what head to head is. I.e, one team has to win all the games vs the other teams or % or ???

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Two Thirds Rectal Trout
Unfortunately.. this is the problem. Head to Head was never clearly defined as to what head to head is. I.e, one team has to win all the games vs the other teams or % or ???


I see that is your problem. Both team A and team B can make an argument for the spot, and one of them will feel screwed. Its an unfortunate situation to be in, especially if the league is with friends.

Hopefully, this will spur you guys on to come up with (and write down) a structure/ruleset that's a bit better defined. I highly recommend some sort of divisional structure, as using division record and h2h breaks almost all ties, cleanly, fairly and without so much ambiguity.

[kcchief19]

mckerney posted the rules for breaking a tie between two teams in the same division. However, in this case it really is more applicable to look at the tie-breaker for wild-card teams which do not come from the same division.

That tie breaker only covers head-to-head sweep and then goes to winning percentage in games played within conference. Since the fantasy league rule goes by record then points, I'd been leaning toward team B. If no team swept the other two, I think you have to go to total points as the next tie breaker. I've commished leagues in the past and that is what I would do.

Either way, one of them will feel they got jobbed.

edit: didn't see Samdari's full post.

[VPI97]

Go with points....In fantasy football, that should be the best indicator of who is truly deserving. Wins and losses are just a matter of timing, point totals show who sis the best job.