Alienware Computers

[RealDeal]

My computer broke a few weeks ago. I have been extremely unhappy with Alienware's supposedly award-winning support. I could go in with a long list of little things about the customer support that were sub-par, but I'll just go into the biggest problem.

I understood that it was Alienware's normal practice to re-format the hard drive of any computers it receives for repair. This is a pretty dranconian practice, particularly if your hard drive worked fine when the computer broke.

I was concerned about this. Many of my files were not backed up, as it's hard to backup files when your motherboard is dead. Also, I'm not technically saavy at all, and don't know how to remove parts from my computer.

So I did the next best thing: accompanying my computer back to Alienware headquarters was a note, which included an explanation of the problem and then (with actual punctuation):

!!!VERY IMPORTANT PLEASE READ!!!!

My wife and I have a number of very important files on the hard drive that have not been backed up. It is very important that these files be saved!!!!!
Please try not to damage the files on the hard drive as they are VERY IMPORTANT and VALUABLE to us!!!

Once again, the most important thing to us is the safety of the files on the hard drive!!!

Thank You


Apparently, the Alienware professionals wadded up the note, threw it away and duly formatted the hard drive. At no point did i receive any notification from Alienware. The only reason I found out was because I sent a subsequent email to Alienware asking about the status of repair and once again asking about the hard drive to which I received the robotic response: "Every system is diagnosed once it enters our Service Center and is worked on throughly. We will reformat the Hard Disk Drive, and reinstall all software."

I frantically called tech support. The first customer support person said he didn't know what happened to the hard drive, but that I would find out when I received the computer, which was shipped yesterday (duh). I called a second time and the customer support person actually called the depot and was able to confirm that they did indeed nuke my hard drive.

Notwithstanding the stupidity of nuking the hard drive of every computer (I was told it was for "legal reasons"), even when the problem with the computer had nothing to do with the hard drive, what stuns me is that they would receive such a clear, emphatic note, and ignore it. They could have at least shot me a quick email or called me and let me know that what I asked for could not be done, perhaps stopping the repair or returning me the hard drive. Instead they just ignored the one request I had, and I suppose, hoped that I wouldn't notice that nearly a year worth of files and programs were gone.

Anyway, my overall experience of this process and others has been very negative, and the support was uniformally zombie-like and half-ass. If you call customer support at night, expect a 45 minute wait. Don't expect tech support operators to be very good. Do expect them to ask you to disassemble your own computer while they try to figure out the problem. Expect a 10-12 day wait if your computer is broken. Expect non-responsive answers when you email them, and expect conflicting answers if you call two different people with the same question. And worst of all expect that nothing you say to customer support will ever find its way to the technical people or vice versa. When you talk to someone that is as far as your issue will ever get, no one will ever seem to have a record of any previous conversation you have had with an Alienware representative.

Alienware markets itself as a premium computer company with premium service. Thus, I would expect that for the price of their computer (which is expensive), the customer support would be better.

In conclusion, if you were thinking of buying an Alienware computer, I recommend that you think twice and consider an alternative company.

[Wasabiak]

Or build one yourself, like i did. And i have no more pc knowledge than the average Joe.

It sucks that you lost all your data, i feel for you. But might i suggest that you make data backup a regular occurance in the future. I burn a cd about once a month or so, with just the important stuff i feel i would need should armageddon strike.

[Franklinnoble]

This is standard practice for every computer company in the business, not just Alienware.

Back up your data next time.

[RealDeal]

As I mentioned in the original post, it is difficult to backup all your data when the reason your computer went to the shop was that the motherboard died. We did semi-regular backups of some files, but were understandably not aware that the motherboard would blow at the time it did. Also, there's only so much you can backup. We can backup some files, but not every program on the machine.

Also, my issue was less with the practice, but with the fact that they ignored an explicit instruction without contacting me. This was after a long history of sub-par and incompetent customer service. When it's one thing after another, after a while you don't give the company the benefit of the doubt. Particularly with a company that markets itself largely on its excellent customer service. If I had sent my computer to Joe's quick and cheap repair, I might feel differently.

What would have been reasonable was a short e-mail saying, BEFORE REFORMATTING, "It is our standard practice to reformat the hard drive before conducting a repair. We cannot make exceptions to this practice. If your files are so valuable you cannot aford to lose them we can either (i) stop the repair order or (ii) remove the drive and send it back to you."

This would have taken five minutes for them, and saved a lot of trouble.

[Bonegavel]

Consider for a moment you have an office at home. You have a lot of real important papers (of which you have no copies) in your office and a fire breaks out. The fireman come and put the hose to the flames (which didn't even come near your docs) and the subsequent water damage completely destroys all your documents.

Their standard practice is to douse all with water to stop the fire. Sure, they could have been more selective, but they wanted the fire out quickly.

The fire was nobody's fault, it just happened. Is it the fireman's fault you didn't make copies and store them in a secure place?

My advice to anyone that uses their computer to create any material that they want to save that they create a backup plan ahead of time. Before you type that first letter of your important docs, figure out how you are going to store it separate from the machine.

I feel your pain as I've lost countless hours of work from crashed machines before I began backing up regularly. I'm not saying you don't have the right to be pissed off. But, a lot of that rests on your shoulders.

I'm willing to bet that you figure out how to burn data CDs in the future :D

[NoMyths]

On the other hand, BoneGavel, if one were to hammer a 30' sign into the front lawn of a house that stated "ATTENTION FIRE DEPARTMENT: I AM GOING TO SET A SMALL FIRE IN MY GARAGE IN THREE DAYS. PLEASE DO NOT DESTROY THE REST OF THE HOUSE WHILE PUTTING OUT THE TRASHCAN," one would hope that they could handle things with a bit more panache.

[RealDeal]

This analogy is interesting, but isn't applicable. Here's a more approriate analogy:

I have an office at home, and a small grease fire breaks out in the kitchen, on the other side of the house. The fire department arrives and the fire is still confined to the pan in which it broke out. I ask the department to put out the fire, and tell them that, if possible, not to damage other stuff. The fire department comes into my house, puts out the grease fire and then proceeds to hose down everything else in the house, including the office, my bedroom, and my living room.

It's nobody's fault the grease fire broke out, but the fire department probably could have given me the heads up before hosing down the rest of my house. If they had told me, "you know, we put the grease fire out, and there's no fire in your office, but we're going to hose it down anyway," I probably would have removed some valuable stuff before they hosed it.

[Schmidty]

Originally posted by NoMyths
.......one would hope that they could handle things with a bit more panache.

Mmmmm.......pancake........

[-Mojo Jojo-]

I don't care how standard the practice, it's retarded that a computer company trashes your hard-drive in order to replace the motherboard. There's really no excuse for that.

[NoMyths]

Alright, if you're going to wad up and throw away my analogy, you can put out your own damn fire.

[Logan]

Originally posted by RealDeal
What would have been reasonable was a short e-mail saying, BEFORE REFORMATTING, "It is our standard practice to reformat the hard drive before conducting a repair. We cannot make exceptions to this practice. If your files are so valuable you cannot aford to lose them we can either (i) stop the repair order or (ii) remove the drive and send it back to you."

This would have taken five minutes for them, and saved a lot of trouble.

Sure, five minutes for the email. But how long do they wait for a response from you? Five more minutes? An hour? A day? What if you're on vacation?

They probably service computers in an assembly-line fashion. They don't have a place to stash computers that are "on hold." By doing this they're losing productivity, which means losing money.

I feel bad that this happened to you, but you knew ahead of time that this was standard procedure for them. And they assume that you know this.

Knowing this, and still wanting your hard drive saved...you should have taken it to a repairman outside of Alienware who could have done what you were hoping for.

[sterlingice]

I gotta agree with Real Deal on this one: it's stupid that a computer company would reformat your hard drive when it's taken it for something completely unrelated.

Originally posted by Wasabiak
Or build one yourself, like i did. And i have no more pc knowledge than the average Joe.

Woo! Frankenboxes rule! I'm kindof glad I built my computer- learned quite a bit and had some fun (well, except I have hands that tended to get poked and bleed a bit).


Originally posted by NoMyths
On the other hand, BoneGavel, if one were to hammer a 30' sign into the front lawn of a house that stated "ATTENTION FIRE DEPARTMENT: I AM GOING TO SET A SMALL FIRE IN MY GARAGE IN THREE DAYS. PLEASE DO NOT DESTROY THE REST OF THE HOUSE WHILE PUTTING OUT THE TRASHCAN," one would hope that they could handle things with a bit more panache.

Beeeeutiful :D

SI

[RealDeal]

"Sure, five minutes for the email. But how long do they wait for a response from you? Five more minutes? An hour? A day? What if you're on vacation? "

My computer was at Alienware for 12 days. I can't imagine it actually took that long to fix it, so they obviously have a place for the computer to be stored. Moreover, if they had a problem with waiting too long, they could have easily said, "if you do not reply to this email within [x] time period, we will proceed with reformatting your computer."

I did know the custom procedure which is why I wrote the conspicuous and clearly written note. My choices were limited: the computer didn't work at all, and my warranty is with Alienware. I obviously wanted a fixed computer AND an intact hard drive. Thus, I figured that I could probably solve the conflict with a clear note. One would think that they would be able to at least acknowledge it.

As far as getting it fixed elsewhere, my computer was still under warranty. I obviously didn't want to pay for a new motherboard when I had already paid for the warranty (which, incidentally, is also expensive).

This is a premium company that markets itself for premium service. If I had bought the computer from a regular store, I still would have been upset, but not as upset: you know what you are getting.

What I expected from Alienware was a modicum of proactivity: someone to say, you know this note tells me that if I reformat the hard drive, I would be doing the exact opposite of what the customer wants. In this case, the people involved clearly said, "fuck him, we do what we do whether you'll like it or not."

Is that their right? Sure. Can I sue them? Probably not.

Was it anything close to good service? Hell, no.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Logan
Sure, five minutes for the email. But how long do they wait for a response from you? Five more minutes? An hour? A day? What if you're on vacation?

They probably service computers in an assembly-line fashion. They don't have a place to stash computers that are "on hold." By doing this they're losing productivity, which means losing money.

I feel bad that this happened to you, but you knew ahead of time that this was standard procedure for them. And they assume that you know this.

Knowing this, and still wanting your hard drive saved...you should have taken it to a repairman outside of Alienware who could have done what you were hoping for.

This post best represents my feelings on this. I feel sorry for RealDeal losing his info, but you can't really expect the company to change standard policy for you - they did warn you in advance.

In essence, you asked "please don't reformat" and they simply said "no." You asked for a favor, they failed to grant it. I don't think it's necessarily fair to get so upset with them about this.

[RealDeal]

I find it stunning that my request was "asking them to do a favor." I had the computer for seven months. I paid extra for a warranty. The computer breaks so that it is unbootable. I'm between a rock and a hard place: I can either get it fixed by the company to whom I paid for a warranty and lose my hard drive, or I can keep my hard drive, which is useless in a broken computer.

I don't think it was audacious to request that the company fix the computer pursuant to my paid warranty while not destroying the hard drive in the process. I think it was even less unreasonable to expect that if they couldn't comply with that request that they would at least tell me.

Let me add one other important fact I should have included. When the tech support guy told me I would need to send them computer, I mentioned then the fact about my hard drive. He told me to write the note.

Was that really unreasonable on my part? If I said, fix my computer and give me some other free parts, that would be unreasonable. I merely asked them to make my computer as good as it was before it broke.

[Draft Dodger]

I don't think Alienware is at fault here - backing up data in a timely fashion is no one's responsibility but your own.

But I will say this: RealDeal paid a premium for that computer. He received top of the line parts, and SHOULD have expected to receive top of the line support. I don't believe Alienware has an obligation to save that drive, but I think if they were as top-notch at support as they claim to be, they WOULD HAVE SAVED IT. And I think that's what he's saying.

I have an Alienware - it's my back-up machine now that I built my own (which hasn't been quite a walk in the park either). The Alienware PC is great - it's been a very reliable system for the 3 years I've had it. But, I've had a very poor experience with their tech support, and probably wouldn't give them future business.

Quick summary:
- system arrived with a corrupt OS (modem wouldn't work properly). first call to tech support was from someone who said it was my ISPs fault. 2nd call fixed it (by having me reinstall). must have slipped through the cracks of that rigorous testing process.

- at some point, I needed to call tech support - mostly to ask a pretty basic question about using their restore disk. the line was busy, so they took down my number to call me back (didn't have to wait on hold, a nice idea). they called me back about 6 hours later - at ELEVEN AT NIGHT.

- Alienware has a "customized website" with all the important specs on my system in case I want to upgrade in the future - you know, what type of mobo, etc etc. nice idea, but they have almost no information on there - not even the type of memory my system uses.

- Alienware has support forums - I browsed around them for a couple of weeks, asked a few questions. most responses were beyond vague, few actually were straight up answers.

Alienware makes extremely great PCs, but, unfortunately for a company like that, they provide extremely mediocre tech support

[Suicane75]

Is it an antequated practice? Probably.
Should you have expected them to do it. Yes. Maybe a better tact would have been to call or email them and arrange ahead of time for them to save your hard drive before you sent it in instead of sending it in and then contacting them and hoping that they did what you want.
And you really should backup your files constantly, especially if they are important.

[Sloan]

I run a computer repair business, and I would never do this without asking my customer's permission.

At the same time however, if the stuff is that important to you, back it up.

[samifan24]

Not to threadjack, but while we're on the topic of extremely frustrating tech support experiences I have only one word for all of you: Dell.

My experience with Dell has been nothing short of disasterous, as they have now spent two weeks trying to figure out what is wrong with my computer and they have no idea. We're onto the three hour diagnostic stage now and if that doesn't work I'm shipping it to them and they can keep it until they determine the problem! :mad:

[Sloan]

Originally posted by samifan24
Not to threadjack, but while we're on the topic of extremely frustrating tech support experiences I have only one word for all of you: Dell.


Ask to speak to HM, that should get you somewhere.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by Sloan
I run a computer repair business, and I would never do this without asking my customer's permission.

At the same time however, if the stuff is that important to you, back it up.

sloan, like any business they most likely have a very small ratio of techs to pcs that need support. If they spent the time that you, as a sole proprietor, would spend they would never get anyone's machine fixed.

Fixing a problem with a PC can be anything from 5 minutes to infinity, especially where hardware is concerned. Wiping a HD clean and reinstalling the OS is by far the easiest and quickest way to get the PC back to health and the customer. And if they have a ghosted image of his rig, it is even less for them to worry about.

I don't argue that the price paid for the Alienware's machines hould mean superb support, but it doesn't seem to be the case. But, hopefully RD will learn from this and start backing up his important data.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, PCs aren't like plate wamers. They require a lot of effort on the users part in order to operate/maintain them properly.

[RealDeal]

People make comments like I never backup data. I do, but the problem was that I couldn't backup recent data once the computer is dead. Also, I didn't backup the scores of programs (including OOTP and FOF, along with saved game files), along with many other programs, such a dragon voice recognition, the voice recognition user files are too large to backup. Also, an MP3 collection. If the computer had blown up, then que sera sera. In this case, these files WERE safe and sound, if not for the fact that the people who were to fix my computer destroyed them. As I pointed out before, the only problem with the computer was the motherboard. From a software persepctive, it ran fine.

[Sloan]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
sloan, like any business they most likely have a very small ratio of techs to pcs that need support. If they spent the time that you, as a sole proprietor, would spend they would never get anyone's machine fixed.

Fixing a problem with a PC can be anything from 5 minutes to infinity, especially where hardware is concerned. Wiping a HD clean and reinstalling the OS is by far the easiest and quickest way to get the PC back to health and the customer. And if they have a ghosted image of his rig, it is even less for them to worry about.

I don't argue that the price paid for the Alienware's machines hould mean superb support, but it doesn't seem to be the case. But, hopefully RD will learn from this and start backing up his important data.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, PCs aren't like plate wamers. They require a lot of effort on the users part in order to operate/maintain them properly.

I agree with nearly everything you said, but I'm sure Alienware could come up with a system better than what I do. Lets say a computer comes in with a ba sound card. I have a spare hard drive with an image on it ready to go. I pop that in, and if I get no sound then I replace the sound card. If the sound works, then there is some kind of software problem on the customer's hard drive, and then I get to argue about how it isn't a warranty repair.:D

Obviously not all situations are that cut and dry, but it seems to strike a fair balance between speed and customer data safety for me. And I think we all agree that Alienware's customers derserve this for the proce they pay.

[Logan]

Originally posted by Sloan
I run a computer repair business, and I would never do this without asking my customer's permission.

At the same time however, if the stuff is that important to you, back it up.

Essentially, Alienware did ask permission. RD said he knew their policy.

Originally posted by RealDeal
People make comments like I never backup data. I do, but the problem was that I couldn't backup recent data once the computer is dead. Also, I didn't backup the scores of programs (including OOTP and FOF, along with saved game files), along with many other programs, such a dragon voice recognition, the voice recognition user files are too large to backup. Also, an MP3 collection. If the computer had blown up, then que sera sera. In this case, these files WERE safe and sound, if not for the fact that the people who were to fix my computer destroyed them. As I pointed out before, the only problem with the computer was the motherboard. From a software persepctive, it ran fine.

Your still failing to look past the point that you knew their policy. Yes, it would have been a waste of your warranty, and you would have paid more, but you DID have other options for fixing it (like bringing it to Sloan :)).

And as for suing...no way in hell.

[Philliesfan980]

I really don't understand this at all. Some of you guys have no idea what their talking about when it comes to computer diagnostics/repair (nothing personal, its just true). If BOTH parties knew that all he needed was a new motherboard, nobody in their right mind would format a HDD! If anything, formatting the HDD (which would have to be done after the motherboard was installed, either that or they would have to transfer the HDD to another PC to format it), would take additional valuable time.

If everyone was on the same page, you simply install a new motherboard, plug in his same RAM, IDE/FDD cable, etc etc etc. I really don't get this situation AT ALL!

[Philliesfan980]

Dola..

It's also a horrible Customer Service move. Alienware must be the DUMBEST company on the face of the planet. Most giant computer manufacturers (Gateway, Dell, HP, Etc) are all the same. What seperates these guys is their ability to make the customer happy. What do they think is going to happen in this situation? Do they really expect him to buy a computer from them in the future based on this "I don't give a fuck, its our policy" attitude? Then what if he tells a friend, or a group of friends? I'm an accountant by trade, but I think I recall in my basic marketing class that 1 bad experience leads to on average 50 lost sales just by word of mouth.

Sorry, I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but I know based on this thread alone, I'll never buy a computer from them in the future. Any company that I give my money to that doesn't respect me enough to attempt to accomidate *MY* request will never see a dollar from me again, and I'll be sure to let everyone know.

[Sloan]

While speed is certainly always an issue, I don't think it really has any bearing on Alienware's decision to reimage all of the PCs that come in for service.

My original install images put windows on the drive and then on the reboot they run diagnostics tests which automatically delete themselves if everything passes. If Alienware did something like this to every PC they could avoid customers saying that they screwed some other part of the system up when they fixing something totally unrelated. This way they can say that the PC was returned in original factory condition.

Time really isn't too big of an issue this way because a Ghost mulitcast server can image drives etremely fast.

[tucker342]

That sucks:(

I know one thing, I'm never buying a computer from Alienware EVER

[clintl]

It's a horrible policy to have, even if he did know about the policy in advance, and I will never buy anything from them. That company is one of the idiotic companies with respect to customer service that I've ever heard of. They should know, and have procedures in place, to deal with exactly this problem, and obviously, they don't.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
I really don't understand this at all. Some of you guys have no idea what their talking about when it comes to computer diagnostics/repair (nothing personal, its just true). If BOTH parties knew that all he needed was a new motherboard, nobody in their right mind would format a HDD! If anything, formatting the HDD (which would have to be done after the motherboard was installed, either that or they would have to transfer the HDD to another PC to format it), would take additional valuable time.

If everyone was on the same page, you simply install a new motherboard, plug in his same RAM, IDE/FDD cable, etc etc etc. I really don't get this situation AT ALL!

not so fast.
I can easily see why they'd reformat as part of quality control - this way they know exactly what state the system is in when it goes back to the customer.

if there's other issues with the PC that aren't yet known (maybe RD had accidentaly hosed the registry on the way), Alienware
looks a bit silly sending a PC back to a customer as "fixed".

EDIT: In other words, what Sloan said. :)

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
not so fast.


DD's Lee Corso moment.:)

[Subby]

Give me a name at Alienware and I will eat his/her children.

[Wasabiak]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
not so fast.
I can easily see why they'd reformat as part of quality control - this way they know exactly what state the system is in when it goes back to the customer.

if there's other issues with the PC that aren't yet known (maybe RD had accidentaly hosed the registry on the way), Alienware
looks a bit silly sending a PC back to a customer as "fixed".

EDIT: In other words, what Sloan said. :)

You hit the nail on the head. It's a "cover your ass" policy for them. I'm not saying it's right, that's just the way it is.

Another idea, although it requires another pc, is to transfer important files to a 2nd pc for backup. That way, if one pc dies, your important stuff is on the other. Of course, not everyone has the luxury of having multiple pc's on a WAN. It's a damn nice thing though.

[clintl]

If they're going to have a CYA policy, they should have the good sense to have an effective CYA policy by backing up the HD first before they reformat. The one they have is a half-assed CYA policy.

[McSweeny]

i would never ever send my computer in to be fixed without making sure i had backed up everything that i needed from my hard drive.

Let's suppose they backed up all his data for him and then fixed up his computer and reinstalled the factory image. What do they do with all his backed up data? Bring it back piece by piece? that would take forever. And where exactly do they back up his data to? Do they just have tons of 40+ gig hard drives laying around to back everyone's data up? It would be a logistical nightmare and that's probably why they have the policy they do

[Daimyo]

At the university I work for the client support guys have a simple fix for this sort of issue. Their image is made of two partitions... all the operating system and baseline software is installed to the C: partition and users are instructed to put all their data on the D: partition. My Documents, application data is easily redirected to the D: partition with a local group policy. Its just easy to create an image like this as it is one with a single partition.

When a user has an issue that requires a "reset" they simply reimage the C: parition and the user's data isn't even touched (they do have to reinstall most of their custom applications, but that's a small price to pay).

[dawgfan]

Originally posted by samifan24
Not to threadjack, but while we're on the topic of extremely frustrating tech support experiences I have only one word for all of you: Dell.

My experience with Dell has been nothing short of disasterous, as they have now spent two weeks trying to figure out what is wrong with my computer and they have no idea. We're onto the three hour diagnostic stage now and if that doesn't work I'm shipping it to them and they can keep it until they determine the problem! :mad:

I'm sympathetic to your experience. That said, my 2 home PC's have been Dell's and I've had 3 Dell's at work. They've all been very stable machines, and the few times I've had any issues with any of them I've received helpful and prompt service from them.

[cuervo72]

Screw Alienware. Lousy practice, lousy way to handle it.

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by Daimyo
At the university I work for the client support guys have a simple fix for this sort of issue. Their image is made of two partitions... all the operating system and baseline software is installed to the C: partition and users are instructed to put all their data on the D: partition. My Documents, application data is easily redirected to the D: partition with a local group policy. Its just easy to create an image like this as it is one with a single partition.

When a user has an issue that requires a "reset" they simply reimage the C: parition and the user's data isn't even touched (they do have to reinstall most of their custom applications, but that's a small price to pay).

This is, of course, the way most do it (i use c: for windows, d: for apps, e: for data - i split it up to make defrags easier) but a person that doesn't know how to backup data isn't going to have a clue how to create a partition, and if pointed to apps like Partition magic will tell you to go fly a kite when they see the price.

I work in IT. I now have the people backing up their files to a file server but when I first started, they were doing no such thing and when systems crashed, I needed to retrieve all sorts of things. I can tell you this is a laborious process, especially since people don't save files to one single location. You have to hunt down files in every corner of the HD, which you have slaved to another machine and if the HD is having problems itself, good luck. I have seen many HDs that wouldn't behave as a slave.

Now that I have everyone saving to a network device, all I have to do is ghost. It has cut the turn around time to almost nothing.

To think that a major computer company is going to have the resources to devote somebody to retrieving all your personal files is laughable. This would be a charge-by-the-hour type of service and you are probably better off putting that money down on a newer machine.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
I really don't understand this at all. Some of you guys have no idea what their talking about when it comes to computer diagnostics/repair (nothing personal, its just true). If BOTH parties knew that all he needed was a new motherboard, nobody in their right mind would format a HDD! If anything, formatting the HDD (which would have to be done after the motherboard was installed, either that or they would have to transfer the HDD to another PC to format it), would take additional valuable time.


You're forgetting that there are three parties involved here. Owner, Tech Support person, and Repair Tech. The Repair tech is not going to have much faith in the user being able to diagnose their problem (let's face it - most computer owners (like car owners) don't know much about anything inside of the box); they may or may not have faith in Tech support's ability to diagnose the problem; and they have a quota to meet. The most common cause of computer failure is a user messing up something on the HD (deleting files they shouldn't have, installing wrong drivers, executing a viurs, etc). By resetting the HD to original factory conditions they are eliminating that possibility when diagnosing the problem.

Now that being said, reformatting a HDD is assinine. This is a computer manufacturing company - they must have drives available. Why not image a new drive and swap out the existing one?

I must say though that you are partly to blame here too. If I were to ppurchase a computer from a company that I knew would reformat the drive if it were returned to them for repairs, then I would most definately go out and buy a second HD on which I would store anything I couldn't afford to lose. If I had to return the system, I could pop out the drive, and then pop it back in when it was fixed (and reinstall the software that I had lost) and be back in business.

Edit - speeling

[Flasch186]

I think thats the main problem. The poor way of handling the situation. If they MUST reformat the harddrive to do work ont he computer than why not see the note, say to myself, "hmmm, maybe i should think a bit about this......mmmmm, donuts." and wait maybe an extra day with this computer sitting off to the side while i work on another computer (so there is no lost efficiency) and shoot an email asking the customer if he'd rather we just send it back (not doing any work on it at all as opposed to wiping the HDD). No lost efficiency, less unhappy customer, less word of mouth. Maybe the guys comp. doesnt work when he gets it back but at least he's not fired up over something stupid. This is actually probably the best example of customer service, truly text book. You have the opportunity to do something "special" for a customer. This something "special" actually costs the biz nothing and will set my company apart from the behemoth companies out there. That's my niche anyways, isnt it? Im smaller, more able to accomodate my cust's demands. This is unfortunate and I would be willing to bet that there would be some mid level manager somwhere at Alienware that if he/she found out about this (assuming this is exactly how it went down) would be livid. Probably even hoping that their higher ups dont hear about it. This shouldve been ez. cut and dry. somebody f'd up. In all honestly probably didnt even read the note....like we do to most instruction papers when we buy some hardware. "I hate this crap" and toss it to the side. Sorry man. welp, in know ill be flippin right past those pages in my PCGamer, good marketing they have (good ads) bad word of mouth. Id rather rely on the latter than the glossy ad.

[Bonegavel]

Flasch186, I would be willing to bet that Alienware was like that in the beginning. Once they outgrew the "alternate source" status and became a mainstream computer builder, that all went out the window as so often happens these days.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
This is, of course, the way most do it (i use c: for windows, d: for apps, e: for data - i split it up to make defrags easier) but a person that doesn't know how to backup data isn't going to have a clue how to create a partition, and if pointed to apps like Partition magic will tell you to go fly a kite when they see the price.

Or you can be like some of us (100 gigs of hd space total) and have a few too many partitions. I think you'll start to see a pattern, tho.

C: Windows 95 partition for running BBPro98 for the sim league I'm in- could never get it working, still use Pentium 166 laptop for sims
D: Was supposed to have a secondary OS on it to play around with; now filled with cartoons
E: Primary OS of Win2K, still has a pretty large chunk of space left on it
F: Used to hold ISOs, now holds cartoons
G: Was supposed to be a Linux partition, now holds cartoons
H: Was supposed to be... you know, I'm not sure, there was just a 5 gig partition sitting out there not being used. I bet you can guess what is there now (everyone say it at once: cartoons)
I: It's for car--- NO! It's for games (...and has some cartoons- d'oh)
J: Data files! No cartoons on this driv- oh, wait, yes there are. Argh.
K: Useful backups of stuff! NO CARTOONS! Place to burn backups off of.

Thankfully, I have a DVD burner now, so as I'm collecting whole sets and seasons of things, I'm burning them off. Working on G1 Transformers at the moment :D

I know that's much more about my computer habits than you ever wanted to know.

SI

[BucDawg40]

"cartoons" = code word for porn

;)

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by BucDawg40
"cartoons" = code word for porn

;)

For some anime this is one and the same.

[Malificent]

Originally posted by Flasch186
I think thats the main problem. The poor way of handling the situation. If they MUST reformat the harddrive to do work ont he computer than why not see the note, say to myself, "hmmm, maybe i should think a bit about this......mmmmm, donuts." and wait maybe an extra day with this computer sitting off to the side while i work on another computer (so there is no lost efficiency) and shoot an email asking the customer if he'd rather we just send it back (not doing any work on it at all as opposed to wiping the HDD). No lost efficiency, less unhappy customer, less word of mouth. Maybe the guys comp. doesnt work when he gets it back but at least he's not fired up over something stupid. This is actually probably the best example of customer service, truly text book. You have the opportunity to do something "special" for a customer. This something "special" actually costs the biz nothing and will set my company apart from the behemoth companies out there. That's my niche anyways, isnt it? Im smaller, more able to accomodate my cust's demands. This is unfortunate and I would be willing to bet that there would be some mid level manager somwhere at Alienware that if he/she found out about this (assuming this is exactly how it went down) would be livid. Probably even hoping that their higher ups dont hear about it. This shouldve been ez. cut and dry. somebody f'd up. In all honestly probably didnt even read the note....like we do to most instruction papers when we buy some hardware. "I hate this crap" and toss it to the side. Sorry man. welp, in know ill be flippin right past those pages in my PCGamer, good marketing they have (good ads) bad word of mouth. Id rather rely on the latter than the glossy ad.

Of course, I had the same problem (dead motherboard) and I didn't know about the hard drive reformatting until I was on the phone with tech support, and by then it is too late. I ended up taking my hard drives out and telling them to just put in a spare.

They ended up charging me $100 for a copy of XP Home that they installed on the spare. Sheesh.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by BucDawg40
"cartoons" = code word for porn

;)

Nah, no room for porn. Any room I set aside for that would quickly be replaced by cartoons. I need the space :D

SI

[SunDancer]

Looking at laptops, I was curious, how is Alienware now? Are they better in the laptops/computers and the support?

[Greyroofoo]

Geeze Dell just sends out tech after tech to my place. I will soon be getting my 4th motherboard in 2 months. This computer has been completely unstable, but at least I back up my files on my MP3 player

[ISiddiqui]

When I had to send my Dell laptop back to them (btw, DON'T buy Dell laptops, they suck!) they had me pull my hard drive out for a problem with the display. I think that is the way most companies should do things. Tell you to keep your own hard drive if the problem doesn't involve that.

Or, when you have to send a computer back, pull your HD yourself... if they say anything about it, the story in the opening post should be retold.

[SunDancer]

Alienware or Dell will likely get my money. They have the price tag and the specifications I want. I might go with Alienware if I think the 2GB RAM is worth $325 more then the regular 1GB RAM that both systems have.

I think every company has it's problems. HP has a laptop that actually beats both systems by a few hundred bucks, but I just am not comfortable with the quality and service of HP.

[Blackadar]

I'm a bit surprised at Alienware...I thought they'd handle it differently.

I bought one 4 years ago, but when it came time to replace it, I didn't even consider them. Too expensive for what you get.

Besdies, the Alienware is the only PC in 20 years that I've had to actually replace a dead mobo on. I didn't like that...

[thrym]

The fire has died down a little on this but:

If they replace the main board with even a slightly different model(an Asus5381XTS vs. an Asus5391XTL) for whatever reason the resources on the HDD would probably flake out. They would be 'looking' for the other controller or a sound device PC128 onboard creative sc not the ensoniq(or whatever). Now, I know changing out HDDs from one PC to another, even WITH the same exact board(model and everything) sometimes isn't handled with the greatest of ease. Even if it is successful 75% of the time, 1 in 4 will still result in a FLOP on restart. So I can see their point, better to have an all inclusive 'rule' than a potential hit or miss.

And someone else mentioned on here, if you knew this was a potential for this loss...why not just tell them to install a new HDD(and pay for the new OS)? I mean, if you had NASA homework on the drive that could NOT be replaced...the FIRST thing I would have done is to have them replace the HDD and install the old one as a slave OR better yet, just box it up and send it back to you. An external drive bay is incredibly cool for this, i.e., saving your warranty by not having to 'crack' the case to get to your drives.

Just a thought...it does suck that you lost all that info but I think the cost will be repaid with the knowledge of what can happen.

[SunDancer]

Hewlett-Packard has me very tempted with this laptop:

price $2,333.96 *
mail-in rebate − $50.00
price after rebate $2,283.96



Operating System Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home Edition with SP2
Processor Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 560 w/HT Technology, 3.6GHz
Display 17.0" WXGA+ BrightView Wide Viewing (1440x900)
Memory 1.0GB DDR2 SDRAM, 400MHz (2x512MB)
Hard Drive 80 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive
Primary CD/DVD Drive FREE Upgrade to 8X DVD +/- RW/R & CD-RW Combo!!
Graphics Card 64MB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) X300
Networking 54g(TM) Integ. Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN & Bluetooth
Primary Battery-12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works/Money
HP extended service plans 3-year HP Express Repair extended service plan
Printer cables and accessories HP USB 2.0 Printer Cable a-b, 9' (3 m)
Carrying Cases HP Sport Backpack
Mice & Keyboards Optical USB Travel Mouse

[Tekneek]

I don't know any place around here that reformats a hard drive on every service event with a PC. In fact, the few I am familiar with actually backup the HD before they get started, regardless of the problem. If the problem is a failed drive, they make their best effort (with the tools available) to retrieve any data they can. Putting a new drive image back onto every HD they receive (regardless of the reason) is lazy. The fact that no human even contacted the customer when reading a note about it confirms their laziness. I don't blame the individuals involved as much as I blame the head of the company. They've instilled this culture that, apparently, is widely accepted as an industry norm.

[Tekneek]

So I can see their point, better to have an all inclusive 'rule' than a potential hit or miss.

Maybe, from a lazy company perspective. It's not my idea of good service, but most people must be satisfied with it.

...the FIRST thing I would have done is to have them replace the HDD and install the old one as a slave OR better yet, just box it up and send it back to you.

This would have been a great plan, but it sounds like this scheme is over the head of a lot of people.

This can still be messed up though. A friend got a deal though, when he asked them to send the original drive back to him (although he did lose his data). He got the old drive in a box, although it had been imaged (bastards did it anyway!!!), and then got a drive twice the size back with the rest of the PC. So he came out ahead, although he did lose everything between his last backup and the motherboard failure.

[thrym]

Maybe, from a lazy company perspective. It's not my idea of good service, but most people must be satisfied with it.
Lazy if you're paying the person $60 an hour and he has all day to devote to your computer...I worked for a state institution during the height of the "Y2K" scare. I was building 8-12 PCs a day. This included the "ghosting" of the HDD and let me tell you, if a system had problems, it was set aside for later. It was easier to just build a NEW one than to debug the other one.

They have to have a system that works for their company...imagine how pissed the person would be if it took 3-4 weeks to get back to you because they were doing what EACH customer wanted in detail...granted THAT would be what customer service is all about but it takes time OR a staff that's about 3x larger than it is currently. Who would ultimately pay for that?


This would have been a great plan, but it sounds like this scheme is over the head of a lot of people.

This can still be messed up though. A friend got a deal though, when he asked them to send the original drive back to him (although he did lose his data). He got the old drive in a box, although it had been imaged (bastards did it anyway!!!), and then got a drive twice the size back with the rest of the PC. So he came out ahead, although he did lose everything between his last backup and the motherboard failure.

This is the very reason they do it the 'lazy' way. And as RD has said many times, its not like this was fine print, something Alienware tried to 'slip' past their customers, its something that MOST of the large computer places do...MAYBE to dissuade the customer from taking advantage of their 'warranty' but still...and if you want to have it done JUST like you want it, take it to a local place and pay $150-$300. They will do you up JUST right, guaranteed :rolleyes: !

[Tekneek]

I'd do the majority of the work myself. I can consider it lazy if I feel it is lazy. It may work for them with their business model and satisfy the majority of their customers. I acknowledged that much. I just don't see anything about the process that should be winning awards if it strives to be just like everybody else in the industry. Maybe I expect too much when I see/hear/read "award winning" and confuse that with "extraordinary" or "exceptional."

EDIT... It's like they give out awards these days for sucking the least, rather than setting a new level/standard of excellence.

[Marc Vaughan]

When I had to send my Dell laptop back to them (btw, DON'T buy Dell laptops, they suck!) they had me pull my hard drive out for a problem with the display. I think that is the way most companies should do things. Tell you to keep your own hard drive if the problem doesn't involve that.

Or, when you have to send a computer back, pull your HD yourself... if they say anything about it, the story in the opening post should be retold.
We use DELL laptops at SI - their onsite support is pretty good (but appears to be sub-licenced to other firms so this will differ from area to area I'd guess).

Reliabilitywise their high-spec laptops (ie. the ones without portable chips) can be pretty flaky if you're unlucky and use them heavily, this is part for the course with most laptops of that spec (basically speaking putting a 3Ghz+ processor into a 1/2 inch space where heat can't circulate very well isn't a great idea) ... however their portable processor machines seem pretty solid.

On average the high spec machines tend to last around 12 months hammering (this is pretty much 16-20 hours a day constant usage) and then develop some sort of fault which the engineer can normally rectify - problems vary from processor melt-down, motherboard failure to graphics card failure ... all pretty standard and par for the course.

I constantly keep an eye out for 'better' systems and service, but while I have my differences with DELL (as our business support chap would happily verify if he posted here ;) ) I haven't found a better company for the price yet (and unfortunately SI can't afford to give everyone Thinkpads which rock :D).

[hhiipp]

We have Dell laptops/desktops at work. I'm a firm believer in IF YOU DON'T NEED A LAPTOP DON'T BUY ONE! Desktops by far out perform and out live laptops by leaps and bounds. Common laptop problems, mobo goes bad from heat, keyboard goes bad from heat of mobo, fan makes ungodly sounds, harddrives crap out, mouse buttons break off, and the mouse 'runs' across the screen uncontrolably (can be due to a keyboard problem or palmrest problem).

If you're looking for longevity and don't need to move it anywhere, definately go for a desktop. Just my 2c.

[ISiddiqui]

and unfortunately SI can't afford to give everyone Thinkpads which rock
Yep, I totally agree :D. Thinkpads are awesome! And as long as the Dells continue to provide awesome games like FM2005, I'll be happy with 'em ;).

Of course, in the end, I perfer desktops, and would probably have one if I wasn't in law school at the moment. If a desktop goes, I can open it up and fix it myself. That's a bit harder in a laptop.

[VPI97]

Thinkpads are awesome! Indeed...I think I'm in love with my work-provided T40.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/VPI97/T40-sample.jpg

[ISiddiqui]

Only problem is affording 'em ;)

[SunDancer]

Only problem is affording 'em ;)

Yeap...They are pretty pricey. Plus, they aren't as customiziable as the other companies. I do wonder how IBM will be now that they are sold to a Chinese computer company. Talk about expensive, Gatway is high.

I think I will go with that HP I listed above. The price is just too good, and HP is not bad.

[Marc Vaughan]

We have Dell laptops/desktops at work. I'm a firm believer in IF YOU DON'T NEED A LAPTOP DON'T BUY ONE! Desktops by far out perform and out live laptops by leaps and bounds. Common laptop problems, mobo goes bad from heat, keyboard goes bad from heat of mobo, fan makes ungodly sounds, harddrives crap out, mouse buttons break off, and the mouse 'runs' across the screen uncontrolably (can be due to a keyboard problem or palmrest problem).

If you're looking for longevity and don't need to move it anywhere, definately go for a desktop. Just my 2c.

I agree 100% (we use laptops as third machines here (we tend to dev on one uber machine and have a second desktop and the laptop for running tests) and for homeworking) ..

[thrym]

...It's like they give out awards these days for sucking the least, rather than setting a new level/standard of excellence.

I will 100% agree with you there...I am just so VERY glad I can work on this stuff myself, I just wish I could make some money doing it and all my friends would stop calling ONLY when they have a problem! Oh well.