Cougars Ruin Longhorns' Holiday

[WSUCougar]

WSU 28, Texas 20

Sweet!

Shouldn't really even have been that close, but Roy Williams kept Texas in it with some big plays late and we made some blunders. WSU's defense was fantastic, with Derting and Coleman making plays all over the field. Jonathan Smith had a great game running the ball. And great punting!

All in all, I'll take the sweet win!

[Glengoyne]

This one is gonna keep me collecting on bets tomorrow at work. Now if Fresno State can keep up the whooping they are putting on UCLA, I will be golden.

[j51]

Their holiday was already ruined 3 weeks ago.

[MrBug708]

Nobody talks more crap then the Longhorns to the PAC-10. When will they ever learn?

[MrBug708]

Dola

Except Pat Hill

[Glengoyne]

Damn I may have started to count my chickens a bit early. I walk in here to post, and miss the bruins picking up a (possibly) weak running into the kicker call, that they convert into a quick six. Ten points(13 with the spread) just isn't enough in a game where I think the key to victory for either team is to suck less than the other guys.

[JeeberD]

I really can't wait for next football season... :)

[MrBug708]

Texas fans should pray that Mack doesnt win 10 and gets blown out to Oklahoma next yera so they can have Spurrier

[HornedFrog Purple]

Not that it would ever happen but a Stoops, Franchione and Spurrier in one division automatically makes it the toughest division in college football let alone conference.

[MrBug708]

Is that the same Franchione that went 4-8?

[HornedFrog Purple]

you know nothing... pay attention next season young one

[MrBug708]

What has Franchionie done in his career? He's one of themost overated coaches in CFB.

[HornedFrog Purple]

haha.. thanks for making me chuckle

This of course means nothing...

Career record (college): 155-73-2 (.678 percent)

Southwestern Kansas (1981-82)

n Pre-Fran -- Averaged 4.7 wins a year the previous nine years.

n Fran -- Posted a 14-4-2 record in two seasons and won a conference championship.

Pittsburg State (1985-89)

n Pre-Fran -- Went 5-4 in 1984 and had three consecutive seasons without a postseason appearance.

n Fran -- Was 53-6 in five seasons with five postseason appearances.

Southwest Texas State (1990-91)

n Pre-Fran -- Experienced five straight losing seasons.

n Fran -- Posted 13-9 record with two winning seasons.

New Mexico (1992-97)

n Pre-Fran -- Was 3-9 in 1991 with last winning season in 1983. Last league title was 1963 with the last bowl appearance being 1961.

n Fran -- Three winning seasons en route to 9-4 and WAC Mountain Division title in '97, and the Insight.com Bowl.

TCU (1998-2000)

n Pre-Fran -- Was 1-10 in 1997 and had won 24 games in six seasons. Last bowl win was 1957.

n Fran -- Won 25 games in three seasons, including a 17-6 WAC record and two co-championships. Three straight bowl games with a Sun Bowl win over USC in 1998.

Alabama (2001-02)

n Pre-Fran -- 3-8 in 2000

n Fran -- Won 14 of his last 17 games,

going 10-3 in 2002

[MrBug708]

Without LT, he'd still be a mid major coaching looking for a break. He's no different then Pat Hill except he's in a BCS conferenece

[HornedFrog Purple]

ok bug there is no convincing you... didn't need an LT to win at Alabama with a stripped program did he?

[MrBug708]

Dola

Spurrier-Title
Stoops-Title
Franc-4-8 in the Big-12 and in the SEC, I dunno his record cuz u didn't leave it

[MrBug708]

Bama was still loaded from that 10-2 season when they had Shaun Alexander. THey had 3 Top 15 recruiting classes before DeBoise tanked in his last season

[JeeberD]

Wow, HFP pulled up those numbers pretty quickly. I'm impressed...

[HornedFrog Purple]

put it this way.. I'll take those 3 over any 3 in college football you pick... call Fran a weak link if you want but when he gets RC's kids out of there, A&M will be a top-tier program again.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Bama was still loaded from that 10-2 season when they had Shaun Alexander. THey had 3 Top 15 recruiting classes before DeBoise tanked in his last season

That team that went 3-8 the year before? That team was marginally better than 3-8 but had zero depth.

[MrBug708]

I'd take Frentz, Carroll, Spurrier, Stoops, Rich, Saban

To name a few...

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Without LT, he'd still be a mid major coaching looking for a break. He's no different then Pat Hill except he's in a BCS conferenece

Two Pat Hill shots in a post about Texas and WSU, I am impressed. Yeah yeah I know I mentioned FSU, but still Hill must really have put a bone up your ass for you to be so obsessed with him. That was even before Fresno embarrased the Bruins. I'll tell ya what, Pat Hill does more with less than anyone else mentioned in this thread. I am happy as can be that he is here in Fresno. I was pretty well convinced he was headed for Arizona after this year. When he does leave here, I guarantee he will kick ass and take names no matter where he ends up. He is that good of a coach. He is that good at advancing a program.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Pat Hill is a great coach. He and Sonny Lubich are two guys that would succeed at the next "level" of CFB easily. Bug doesn't seem to grasp the idea that coaches generally do their time and move up tier-by-tier.

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Pat Hill is a great coach. He and Sonny Lubich are two guys that would succeed at the next "level" of CFB easily. Bug doesn't seem to grasp the idea that coaches generally do their time and move up tier-by-tier.


LOL

I'm not the one who compared a coach of a 4-8 program to 2 coaches who who have won NC's

[HornedFrog Purple]

I get it now... 1 year makes a college coach!

Did Spurrier win a NC at Duke? Didn't think so. Could Fran win one anywhere he has been with the exception of Alabama? Didn't think so.

If you read what I said, I said those 3 coaches in the same division would make it the toughest division in college football let alone conference. I asked you to name 3 others that you would take against them yet you turned around and named 2 of them.

[MrBug708]

*yawn*

Your homerism precedes you my friend

I'm not sayinghe's a bad coach. I'd say he's in the Barry ALvarez, Mike Belotti tier of things. I'd say Top 15-20 coaches, but not Top 5 like you are hinting at

[HornedFrog Purple]

What homerism do I have? If you want to call me a homer for a guy that has won everywhere he has been... yup call me homer. I am going to go on a hunch here and say that A&M will rebound... I dunno why...

I never said he was Top-5. 3 seasons at 2 higher echelon programs gives one an incomplete at best.

But like I said, put 3 others of your choice in the same division with my 3 and Fran won't be last.

Anyone who can win consistantly at New Mexico when he arrived there is doing something right. NM was a coaching graveyard for 30 years.

[HornedFrog Purple]

dola

Anyways back to Texas. Hopefully this will be the impetus for Mack to can his coordinators, even though he has been historically very loyal to them.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by MrBug708
*yawn*

Your homerism precedes you my friend

I'm not sayinghe's a bad coach. I'd say he's in the Barry ALvarez, Mike Belotti tier of things. I'd say Top 15-20 coaches, but not Top 5 like you are hinting at

He never said top15-20 coaches, he said it would make for a tough division and he's dead right.

The guy has won everywhere he's ever been and will win at A&M. Do we judge Karl Dorrel by this season?

How about Ty Willingham? Is he a crap coach because his team lost badly this season? Or did he not have the guys in place for his system yet?

Back to HFP's original point. . . Stoops, Spurrier at Texas, Fran, Les Myles and Mike Leach is a TOUGH division. Heck, it's tough as it stands, and that's with the horrific Texas coaching staff included.

[vex]

A&M isn't going anywhere but dowm, if it's possible. HFP, have you checked out their recruiting this year?

[HornedFrog Purple]

Thanks Troy at least someone understood my babbling.

And that's not even accounting for the other coaches already in the division with Les Myles and Mike Leach. Leach I believe has recruited the #1 JUCO QB in the country, so if he is as good as advertised they won't miss a beat. From what I have read they concentrated their efforts on the defensive side of the ball.

Les Miles is gaining momentum every year. He has really done a good job of recruiting the northern area of Texas (which is why he jumped at playing SMU every year and now he is going to the Cotton Bowl)

Guy Morris even made Baylor competitive for a few games which is a feat in itself, but they are a long way away.

My whole problem with Texas is they are a sleeping giant but they have stayed that way. Mack Brown can continue to be CEO of the program but he has to get some staff in there that gameplans to his teams strength and more importantly adjusts to what the other team is trying to do to them.

And please whomever comes in, teach Cedric Benson pass protection technique. If there is any hole in his game that is his glaring one.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by vexroid
A&M isn't going anywhere but dowm, if it's possible. HFP, have you checked out their recruiting this year?

To be honest, I usually don't until signing day. Last time I had looked they were 18th or so but I am sure that has changed by now.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by vexroid
A&M isn't going anywhere but dowm, if it's possible. HFP, have you checked out their recruiting this year?

Yeah, all those recruiting classes has led Texas to a ton of BCS trips, right? (I know Vex, your an Oklahoma fan, but my point still holds)

Just wait for a couple of years. Let Fran get his players in there and teach his system to the guys currently in place. Their recruiting will be fine.

Besides, according to Rivals, they have the #3 ranked DT, the #3 ranked DE and the #4 QB in the country committed to them already. As for those two star guys, just wait and see how they produce before you lable them failures.

[WSUCougar]

My my my, a Franchione-based threadjacking. Be gone!

Anyone else watch the Holiday Bowl? Of course I am very familiar with the Cougar team, but this was only my second game watching the Longhorns this year. A few observations:

(1) Benson is a stud. One of the great mysteries of the game is why they didn't keep hammering us with him.

(2) Roy Williams is a true talent, but we really bottled him up until the 4th quarter, when we inexplicably allowed him to scare the bejesus out of us.

(3) QB Young is a nimble 6-5 monster - his draw plays were killers, and without containment he was romping all over the place. He also ran through tackles and carried some defenders. However, his passing was inferior. QB Mock threw pretty well when he had the time, but that was rarely - Texas could not stop our blitzes.

(4) LB Johnson (#11, the All-American) had a solid game, but was outplayed by WSU's LB Derting.

(5) Mack Brown looks like a real putz on the sideline. He whines to the officials all of the time, and often looks like he's on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

(6) Overall, the Texas players looked beaten.

[Ksyrup]

I don't follow Texas, so could someone please explain to me how a guy with a 15/2 TD/INT ratio is not the starter? I know the other guy runs well, but frankly, he looked like Rob Johnson in the pocket on more than a few pass plays last night.

[Radii]

I have two comments.

1) Texas looked totally confused by Washington State's blitzes. I'm not sure why, it didn't look like they were doing anything terribly fancy, just bringing lots of people, often.

2) I'm going to lose a lunch bet thanks in part to this game in ESPN's bowlmania contest. BAH TEXAS.

[Ksyrup]

Damn, you can bet for lunches now on ESPN? What will they think of next?

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by Radii
I...

2) I'm going to lose a lunch bet thanks in part to this game in ESPN's bowlmania contest. BAH TEXAS.


I am on the other side of this bet, well Radii isn't buying me lunch, but somebody is. It was the first game I picked, as I thought it was ridiculous that Texas was even ranked 5th. Of course during the Roy Williams show in the second half, I was quite a bit less certain.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I don't follow Texas, so could someone please explain to me how a guy with a 15/2 TD/INT ratio is not the starter? I know the other guy runs well, but frankly, he looked like Rob Johnson in the pocket on more than a few pass plays last night.

Young will be the better guy down the line. His passing is bad right now though. He consistently waits 2 to 3 counts longer than he should before he throws the ball.

I think Mock was actually at 10TD's and 0 INT's when Young was given the starters job.

WSU,

Lots of other players outplay the Texas guys because of how poorly they are coached. Roy Williams and Derick Johnson are two of the worst utilized players in all of college football.

You stopped Roy last night in the first half because Texas did what they usually do to him. . . they forgot about him. One long pass which should have been a TD was just off and they didn't go deep the rest of the half. By the time Texas did decide to go deep, Washington State was prepared for it because of their lead.

Johnson is an incredible attacking LB who Texas enjoys playing 8 yards from the line of scrimmage 85% of the time. It's amazing to watch how badly he is used.

Mack Brown is an amazing guy. He can walk into a teens living room and get him to sign a letter of intent with the best of em. Sadly, that recruiting speech will be the last time any Texas player is motivated to do anything in their entire college career.

[Radii]

Originally posted by Glengoyne
I am on the other side of this bet, well Radii isn't buying me lunch, but somebody is. It was the first game I picked, as I thought it was ridiculous that Texas was even ranked 5th.

I didn't know if Texas deserved to be that highly ranked, but I didn't think nearly as much of WSU as I clearly should have... I am not out of it yet! If Michigan beats USC and Oklahoma wins the national title, I can still win my bet, but this Texas game hurt. Oh, Ohio State needs to beat K-State as well. Yeah, no sweat!

[judicial clerk]

-I heard that Francchione was a "me first" a-hole.

-Pat Hill has done well at Fresno State. I hope they don't lose him any time soon.

-

[Huckleberry]

Oklahoma's players are not 77 points better than Texas A&M's. Especially considering it was 77-0 in the third quarter. And OU was practically tackling themselves by the middle point of the 3rd quarter.

And at home at Kyle Field against the most easily exploitable coaching staff and scheme in the nation against your hated rivals, you should not lose 46-15. Franchione couldn't outcoach Mack Brown.

I'm not saying he has no shot. I am saying that he hasn't shown me anything yet.

[vex]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
Oklahoma's players are not 77 points better than Texas A&M's. Especially considering it was 77-0 in the third quarter. And OU was practically tackling themselves by the middle point of the 3rd quarter.

And at home at Kyle Field against the most easily exploitable coaching staff and scheme in the nation against your hated rivals, you should not lose 46-15. Franchione couldn't outcoach Mack Brown.

I'm not saying he has no shot. I am saying that he hasn't shown me anything yet.


Wow, I agree with Huck.:eek:

[Huckleberry]

Careful. You will join TroyF in the Getting Smarter One Step at a Time Club. :D

[GrantDawg]

Is there any greater joy in college football than to watch Mack Brown lose? :)

[HornedFrog Purple]

well I did say this...

3 seasons at 2 higher echelon programs gives one an incomplete at best.

Maybe Fran is a great rebuilder of programs and that's it. Right now we just don't know. Judging this 4-8 season on guys that don't fit his philosophies very well I think is jumping the gun.

Huck must have a fever or is delirious. I said something about Texas and he hasn't jumped me... yet. :)

[Huckleberry]

Oh yeah, almost forgot. You suck.

You are wrong about Texas, of course. ;)

There is nothing that will be enough impetus for Mack Brown to fire Davis and Reese short of having his own job threatened. And even that might not work.

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Maybe Fran is a great rebuilder of programs and that's it. Right now we just don't know.


That's about right

[IMetTrentGreen]

anybody who has ever complained about a crappy coach has nothing, i repeat NOTHING, on me

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
Careful. You will join TroyF in the Getting Smarter One Step at a Time Club. :D

Huck,

Not sure I'm getting smarter at all. Reread those Texas vs. CU threads from two years ago. I never say in any of them that CU will win the game because of superior talent.

I said CU could win the game because Simms would likely choke (he did) and that Mack wasn't a big game coach (he's not) and that CU was on a roll (they were)

I said in that thread that I wished Mack Brown a long and happy career in the Big12. You wished the same on Barnett. I still hold Gary is a better coach. Maybe not by a lot, but I'll take a Cinderellla season every few years as opposed to watching a team full of talent fail miserably every year.

I've never liked the scheme ran by Mack Brown (or his coordinaters). Ever.

IMTG,

Vince Okruh is every bit as bad as your DC. He's horrible. If you don't believe me, you take him for a year. You'll do just as bad.

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by IMetTrentGreen
anybody who has ever complained about a crappy coach has nothing, i repeat NOTHING, on me

Please... :rolleyes:

The worst coach that Texas has ever had could coach rings around Goofy Gary Nord...

[TroyF]

quick dola here,

Huck,

I don't fault Fran nearly as much for the OU or Texas losses as you do. The A&M defense was horrible for much of the year, but this started last year and wasn't Fran's doing. Yeah, the OU loss was miserable, but OU was out for revenge and at home. The guys quit on him when things got ugly, but that's a one game thing and I'm not going to think he's a below average coach because of that.

As for Texas. . . A&M couldn't have exploited Texas with Parcells coaching them and a pee wee coach calling the shots for Texas. A&M got ripped by Texas 50-20 last year when they were supposed to be average. OK, so A&M was home, that should matter, right? OK, I'll give you that one. . . but OSU beat them 38-10 and Pittsburgh scored 37 points in College Station this year. I think it was more a fact that the team sucked than that Fran sucked.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong in a few years, but I do think he's at least owed that before he gets judged.

[tucker342]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
But like I said, put 3 others of your choice in the same division with my 3 and Fran won't be last.


Lets see: Frentz, Carroll and Saban:D

I think he would be last on that list.


back on topic, I love seeing Texas lose:D
I wonder how HM is taking it......

[IMetTrentGreen]

i want quinn snyder and mack brown to get fired then go coach at the same school. that would be fun to watch. it would be like mackovic in arizona, but better, because theyd actually have high expectations

and i'd take gary nord over brown and i dont even know who he is

[IMetTrentGreen]

"As for Texas. . . A&M couldn't have exploited Texas with Parcells coaching them and a pee wee coach calling the shots for Texas."

there are two things wrong with this statement:

1. anybody can exploit texas. anyone, anytime

2. we do have a pee wee coach. he claps and says "thats ok" even when we suck harder than average. no discipline, no emotion, just quiet reassurance that your suckitude is good enough for him. as long as everyone plays and the moms are happy, then thats good enough for mack brown

[TroyF]

Originally posted by IMetTrentGreen
"As for Texas. . . A&M couldn't have exploited Texas with Parcells coaching them and a pee wee coach calling the shots for Texas."

there are two things wrong with this statement:

1. anybody can exploit texas. anyone, anytime

2. we do have a pee wee coach. he claps and says "thats ok" even when we suck harder than average. no discipline, no emotion, just quiet reassurance that your suckitude is good enough for him. as long as everyone plays and the moms are happy, then thats good enough for mack brown

1) Nah. Not anyone. You guys just match up well with some teams. Oklahoma State didn't have a prayer against you guys this year. Myles is a good (not great) coach, but he had no answers. Sometimes the talent just takes over and matchups decide a teams fate.

2) Point taken.

[IMetTrentGreen]

well, yeah. teams like baylor will never threaten us, and some teams we match up so well with (nebraska, for one)

but for the talent that is here, which is 100% of the reason we are as good as we are, there are an embarrassingly large amount of weaknessess on this team. if i had roy williams and dj alone i'd be 11-2

[TroyF]

Originally posted by IMetTrentGreen
well, yeah. teams like baylor will never threaten us, and some teams we match up so well with (nebraska, for one)

but for the talent that is here, which is 100% of the reason we are as good as we are, there are an embarrassingly large amount of weaknessess on this team. if i had roy williams and dj alone i'd be 11-2

Can't argue that.

I do think SOME of the Texas talent is a bit overrated. When I see DT's losing one on one battles against the Washington State C/G trio, I can't believe ALL of that is coaching.

Yet there is no question there is a ton of talent being misused and abused. Roy Williams should have been a Heisman finalist this year. I love Rashaun Woods. Great player and he singlehandedly destroyed OU a year ago. :)

Yet there is no way Woods should hold all the receiving records in the Big12. Williams is a superior WR.

I have zero interest in wheather Texas succeeds or not, but I find myself screaming at the TV "THROW THE BALL DEEP TO WILLIAMS, I DON'T CARE IF HE'S DOUBLE COVERED" 10-20 times during every Texas game.

That staff doesn't have a clue.

[Cringer]

As someone born and "mostly" raised in eastern Washington state, and has now live in south Texas for 7 years or so, my take on this whole thing is this:

9 times out of 10 something from Washington will be better then something from Texas.

[MrBug708]

Well, Texas does get some of the highly rated talent, but most of the "speed" positions are better off recruiting from the south or from California

[IMetTrentGreen]

worst post ever, bug

seriously

our dts suffer from a lack of conditioning, in the sense that we don't do it at all

it all bench press all the time. thats why our freshmen come in and kick ass for a season and a half then get all bulky and slow

i can certainly understand how the casual observer (troy) or complete idiot (bug) would think that the talent might be overrated

i have been right many, many times, and i have never been more sure of anything in my life. texas has the best players, when they get here, than anybody else, anywhere. they receive subpar teaching in motivation, work ethic, accountablilty and most importantly, technique. i've been to practices. i remember one drill this fall when the receivers were dropping ball after ball and the coach wasn't even watching. there are many more:

1. derrick johnson might be the sickest defensive player i've ever seen here, yet he still makes the same mistakes he made as a freshman, like overrunning plays and diving shoulders first at runners

2. nathan vasher used to be one of the most explosive players in the country. this off-season he added about 10 pounds of upper body muscle, and has completely lost his burst. this is ok, and even encouraged by the staff

3. speaking of which, our s&c guy is a roided up fatass who doesn't even preside over the lifting sessions. all his workouts are from back in his needled-up days, meaning our guys lift too much too often, leading to a lot of injuries and backwards progress. there are no conditioning drill, and nothing for quickness. only things that matter here and bench press, squat, and 40 times

4. we don't adjust, ever. if a team find a successful play or strategy, it will work all game. look at the holiday bowl. even in obvious blitzing situations we had no answer. ou's draw wa another good example, and the slant everyone ran against our one predictable, poorly run zone

i could go on but i won't

they just don't care. they do not understand what it takes to be successful and they never will. thats the bottom line, and thats why we'll continue to go 9-3 until the talent drops off

and we'll be right back where we started

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by IMetTrentGreen
and i'd take gary nord over brown and i dont even know who he is

He's the loser who just got fired at UTEP after three straight 2-10 seasons. You know you have to be really bad to get fired at UTEP...

[Huckleberry]

[HornedFrog Purple]

heh I saw that...

That only took about 13.2 seconds of my time to disprove. ;)

[JMoore1]

Im not sayin nothin about Texas...I might work for them one day.
Hahahaha...

[HornedFrog Purple]

hmmm 4-7 to 7-4... 3 losses to teams currently ranked in the top 10

That aint bad one year removed from RC's kids.

[HornedFrog Purple]

A&M isn't going anywhere but dowm, if it's possible. HFP, have you checked out their recruiting this year?

seemed that class did pretty good with a majority of them getting major playing time...

[Huckleberry]

HFP -

What the hell did I post in a drunken fit at 2:18 in the morning that I had to delete 9 minutes later?

Awesome.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I dunno... it must have been something I had a clue about.

Whatever it was, it now makes me look stupid. :D

Anyways, I like bumping old threads. :)

Also I think A&M went 4-8 a season ago and according to some formulas will end up with the toughest schedule in the country this season.

[WSUCougar]

Anyways, I like bumping old threads. :)
Feel free to bump this one at any time. :D

[Senator]

/summon IMTG

[HornedFrog Purple]

you forgot the 3 magic words

Chris Simms minivan

[IMetTrentGreen]

all washington teams are great at football. no denying that