So, how do we like this game anyhow?

[uglytuco]

I know, it came out oh so long ago and everyone has played 100 seasons already. But I havent. Im in 2011, so Ive got 7 seasons under my belt.

While I have won 3 SBs and won the division title the past 6 seasons, the salary cap is crippling me. In past versions, the cap could be tough, but it was never impossible to get around. I used to trade my 1st & 7th rd pick to the worst team for their 1st pick every year, always ensuring me of a top 5 pick. Im so dam tight against the cap now, theres no way I could sign the guy even if I did make that trade!

All in all, I'd have to say this is the most superior version of FOF ever. Its been much tougher to dominate than previous versions. Theres almost no way that I can see to keep a team together, save a few star players. Even then, those few superstars will break the bank, leaving you with nothing else.

Then theres the draft. What was once sooooooo easy, is now almost the total crapshoot that the real NFL draft is.

Very challenging. For me, at least.

[hukarez]

I know, it came out oh so long ago and everyone has played 100 seasons already. But I havent. Im in 2011, so Ive got 7 seasons under my belt.

While I have won 3 SBs and won the division title the past 6 seasons, the salary cap is crippling me. In past versions, the cap could be tough, but it was never impossible to get around. I used to trade my 1st & 7th rd pick to the worst team for their 1st pick every year, always ensuring me of a top 5 pick. Im so dam tight against the cap now, theres no way I could sign the guy even if I did make that trade!

All in all, I'd have to say this is the most superior version of FOF ever. Its been much tougher to dominate than previous versions. Theres almost no way that I can see to keep a team together, save a few star players. Even then, those few superstars will break the bank, leaving you with nothing else.

Then theres the draft. What was once sooooooo easy, is now almost the total crapshoot that the real NFL draft is.

Very challenging. For me, at least.
I think in my seasons (I'm at the start of my 2025 season), I only went to the Super Bowl once with my team, and won it. Only 1 time though, back in the 2021 season. Since then, I think I've got 10 win seasons probably once or twice, the rest of the time I've been Marty Schottenheimer-esque with 8-8, 9-7 records. Then, there were a couple of 7-9 seasons, and maybe a 5-11 season too.

My roster strength's abyssmal. :o

[Groundhog]

I'm also relatively new to the sim, and I'm 20 years in. I'm playing on the easiest level (not sure what this affects?), but I've won 2 superbowls. Outside of those 2 bowls, I've been only mediocre however. Like you say, I've had a real tough time keeping my teams together.

A few seasons ago I had a great QB, great RB and a great defensive unit. Most of them were young and developed REAL well. Anyhow, fast forward to now, and I've pretty much just got the QB and a few of the defensive players. The rest of my roster is just average to below average beacuse of how much I'm paying my star players.

[cthomer5000]

I've become (after about 20 years) a perennial powerhouse on the highest difficulty setting. Still, I think this game is the most challanging yet, and it is definitely the best version yet.

[FBPro]

I'm playing on the hardest level, been to the Superbowl once and lost in 32 seasons. Loving the challenge that the cap can be.

[MizzouRah]

I'm in my fourth season (hardest level), went to the Conference championship once (last year) and lost. This year I'm 10-2, but if I don't goto the SB this year, I'm toast next year as I'm really close to next year's cap.

I currently have 4 starters on IR, and someone has been going down each week as I get closer to the playoffs. I think next year I'll keep the core together and start to rebuild. Now I know how most teams feel in the NFL. :)

I alternate 5 years TCY, 5 years FOF.


Todd

[uglytuco]

Has anyone else noticed that the rest of the league almost all seem to have TONS of cap room? Right now I am at the start of the first FA period. The cap right now is $135mil. Me and 1 other team are $9mil under. (this is after I just traded away 3 star players to get under the cap) After that, the rest of the league is anywhere from $16mil to $80mil under the cap!!!

What I would give to be $80mil under the cap some year!!

[FBPro]

There are times when I have alot of cap room, just not often enough.

[GoSeahawks]

Has anyone else noticed that the rest of the league almost all seem to have TONS of cap room? Right now I am at the start of the first FA period. The cap right now is $135mil. Me and 1 other team are $9mil under. (this is after I just traded away 3 star players to get under the cap) After that, the rest of the league is anywhere from $16mil to $80mil under the cap!!!

What I would give to be $80mil under the cap some year!!
The reason for this is that almost all the teams teams come into the new season with 15-25 players under contract.
I always enter the new season with anywhere from 35-40 players under contract.

[yabanci]

The reason for this is that almost all the teams teams come into the new season with 15-25 players under contract.
I always enter the new season with anywhere from 35-40 players under contract.

Exactly. I don't have the heart to cut those last 10 players to get me into the position of the AI teams in terms of players under contract and salary cap room. I think the AI teams are a little too agressive in cutting players.

[Draft Dodger]

Has anyone else noticed that the rest of the league almost all seem to have TONS of cap room? Right now I am at the start of the first FA period. The cap right now is $135mil. Me and 1 other team are $9mil under. (this is after I just traded away 3 star players to get under the cap) After that, the rest of the league is anywhere from $16mil to $80mil under the cap!!!

What I would give to be $80mil under the cap some year!!

I was going to ask about this, but you've answered my question. it's a pet peeve for FOF4 (don't have the newest one yet) and I was kind of hoping it was better in 2k4, but your post doesn't give me encouragement.

it really gives you an advantage when, essentially, you are able to spend $20,000,000 more PER season than every other team. That's 3 or 4 high-impact players that you can have that the other teams have.

[PunkyQB]

I think the AI teams are a little too agressive in cutting players.

I just made my token "AI teams have no roster continuity" rant in another thread ... but I have to agree here wholeheartedly.

If I could figure out a way to coax/force AI teams to keep rosters recognizable year-to-year, I'd be playing this game and taking an interest in rivalries and player careers over the years like crazy.

As it is ... I just don't ever play the game anymore. I just don't give a damn about any of the teams or rivalries because they keep purging and redefining themselves every season or two. Building my team is not much fun when I don't have any recurring-character rivals competing with me.

This was not the case 2 versions ago. I remember having great recurring rivalries and playing the game non-stop ... for all the upgrades since then ... if I don't care about the league, it is hard to care about my team.

Just my opinion and why I've, to my shock, lost most of my interest in this otherwise great game.

[yabanci]

The problem I see is most of the teams are so cutthroat that they release all their second tier players every year, only to sign the second tier players that the other teams just cut in the same manner. So you have huge class of interchangable players who get cut and resigned by different teams every year, leading to a whole crop of guys who play for eight teams in ten years. The agressive AI is good, but it's just too agressive.

[PunkyQB]

The problem I see is most of the teams are so cutthroat that they release all their second tier players every year, only to sign the second tier players that the other teams just cut in the same manner. So you have huge class of interchangable players who get cut and resigned by different teams every year, leading to a whole crop of guys who play for eight teams in ten years. The agressive AI is good, but it's just too agressive.


I think that is dead-on correct ... at least from my observations.

[uglytuco]

But, and I havent really done an extensive study on this, when these teams sign guys to mega-deals, theyve gotta have some players at a pretty high dollar for at least 4 yrs. Theres always plenty of those whopping deals going on, so somebody has to be tying up some bucks somewhere.

I do have some little rivalries going on with my team, the Bengals. For one thing, no matter what our records are, Balt always seems to have my number. Its always a game I pay closer attention to. And Indy, who has kept Manning (now in the final yr of his contract) and theyve been the main team I have to beat in the playoffs every yr. I shocked me, them and the world by upsetting them in Indy for the AFC Championship to go on to win my 3rd SB last season.

My main cap trouble comes from keeping my offense well stocked. Carson Palmer is a superstar (who I couldnt afford a salary for, so I franchise him every year, which is now cheaper than trying to sign him long term) Ive got a superstar RB, G & LT, and some pretty good guys at WR, C, G & RT. I had a great FB that I just traded away, cuz aint no FB worth $5mil a yr. But keeping all these guys wipes out my cap and I got no defense.

[yabanci]

bump (for Jim)

[Axxon]

As it is ... I just don't ever play the game anymore. I just don't give a damn about any of the teams or rivalries because they keep purging and redefining themselves every season or two. Building my team is not much fun when I don't have any recurring-character rivals competing with me.



It's funny because I was reading something today that hit on this issue and was planning to make a thread about it but here I am at work and I can only give the generalities but oh well. First, I don't think the lack of team continuity is the major issue here. I think it's more how the game is designed.

I was reading John Madden's old book. I got it as part of a trade I made and it was really a throw in but it was a fun read. Anyway, I'm reading the part where he talks about his offensive line and he states that they drafted Art Shell ( I think ) just to block the defensive tackle from the Broncos.

I thought man, this would be so cool but it never happens in the computer sports world. It's not part of the game and for me, the main reason is that I have no real confidence that matchups really mean that much in the computer world. There's no real reason to believe it does.

Ok, there's no feedback that it does and I enjoy the game flow just fine without worrying about whether it does. It's hard to do the immersion thing in such a time consuming manner when you have no reason to believe it will matter.

Now, lets look at after the facts. We get a boxscore that shows big things that happen but there's no way to know if DT Smith was constantly pushing OG Jones 4 yds into the backfield and thats why the running game didn't work or if Jones was holding his own but they never ran behind him or was it something else entirely? We just don't know.

Now, I still like the game and consider the newest incarnation the bast yet in the series but reading that book this morning, for just a moment, gave me an idea about what could be and it was a glorious vision. I don't think we're anywhere near it yet and I have a lot of ideas about why we're not and the difficulties in incorporating this into a text sports sim but this post is long enough as it is.

[Peregrine]

The problem I see is most of the teams are so cutthroat that they release all their second tier players every year, only to sign the second tier players that the other teams just cut in the same manner. So you have huge class of interchangable players who get cut and resigned by different teams every year, leading to a whole crop of guys who play for eight teams in ten years. The agressive AI is good, but it's just too agressive.

Couldn't agree with this more. This is a major issue with the game, when you can look at dozens of free agents and see them all playing for 6 different teams in 7 years, or often in the case of QBs, 5 teams in 5 years. Even the big name QBs often leave their teams with no efforts on their current teams' part to resign them. I can understand this happening occasionally because of salary cap, but it seems to happen frequently. I love finding that rare guy who plays all or most of his career with one team, but it doesn't happen very often. I find myself having to check division rivals' rosters each year to know who the heck I'll be playing! I definitely wish the AI held onto players more, it would make the rivalries a lot more interesting.

[GoSeahawks]

Couldn't agree with this more. This is a major issue with the game, when you can look at dozens of free agents and see them all playing for 6 different teams in 7 years, or often in the case of QBs, 5 teams in 5 years. Even the big name QBs often leave their teams with no efforts on their current teams' part to resign them. I can understand this happening occasionally because of salary cap, but it seems to happen frequently. I love finding that rare guy who plays all or most of his career with one team, but it doesn't happen very often. I find myself having to check division rivals' rosters each year to know who the heck I'll be playing! I definitely wish the AI held onto players more, it would make the rivalries a lot more interesting.
This reminds me of the problem with "legends of the game." LOG are supposed to be players who stuck with a team for a long time and produced great stats. These are players like Brett Favre or Cal Ripken of baseball, but the way it goes in FOF players don't stick with teams long enough. I often see LOG who played for three teams in 15 years. Who knows, maybe I am wrong about legend's of the game?!?!?

[Peregrine]

I think the issue with LOG is that someone has to be given the honor each year, and some years there just aren't any big retirements where the person played with the same team for a long time. I did have a recent retirement of QB Doug Money (and he was money!) who played his whole career with the Cardinals and led them to a Super Bowl. He had 4 years of 4000+ passing, which is a major feat in my dynasty since I'm using a fictional league from HR's utility. He won the LOG and I was glad to see it!

[GoSeahawks]

This leads me to my next question. How many players normally stay on a team from one year to another? I imagine out of 50 players on a teams roster in 2003 at least 30 would be on it for 2004. Does anyone know the average of players that stay on a team from one year to the next?
*I don't know if that made any sense. I have been drinking........I have the day off tomorrow so give me a break

[GoSeahawks]

I think the issue with LOG is that someone has to be given the honor each year, and some years there just aren't any big retirements where the person played with the same team for a long time. I did have a recent retirement of QB Doug Money (and he was money!) who played his whole career with the Cardinals and led them to a Super Bowl. He had 4 years of 4000+ passing, which is a major feat in my dynasty since I'm using a fictional league from HR's utility. He won the LOG and I was glad to see it!
After checking my Legends of the Game log I found some interesting notes. There has been just one fictional player retire who played for one team. Most of them played for 2 or 3, but I have seen instances of 5 and 6 teams.

What's HR utility? How does that make 4 seasons of 4,000 yards a major feat?

[Axxon]

This reminds me of the problem with "legends of the game." LOG are supposed to be players who stuck with a team for a long time and produced great stats. These are players like Brett Favre or Cal Ripken of baseball, but the way it goes in FOF players don't stick with teams long enough. I often see LOG who played for three teams in 15 years. Who knows, maybe I am wrong about legend's of the game?!?!?

I guess I disagree with your definition. If it were legends of the team then yeah, but for a couple of quick examples of guys who are legends of the game IRL we have Deion Sanders and Roger Clemens. Both played on 3 or more teams in their sports and both are legends.

Reggie Jackson played for 3 teams. Same for Babe Ruth. I'm sure there are many others but I'm going off the top of my head here. Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, baseball is loaded with these guys.

Football is harder to find guys like this but until recently there wasn't much movement between teams. I don't think you can penalize players of ability because the fundamental rules of the economy of the game has changed.

[GoSeahawks]

I guess I disagree with your definition. If it were legends of the team then yeah, but for a couple of quick examples of guys who are legends of the game IRL we have Deion Sanders and Roger Clemens. Both played on 3 or more teams in their sports and both are legends.

Reggie Jackson played for 3 teams. Same for Babe Ruth. I'm sure there are many others but I'm going off the top of my head here. Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, baseball is loaded with these guys.

Football is harder to find guys like this but until recently there wasn't much movement between teams. I don't think you can penalize players of ability because the fundamental rules of the economy of the game has changed.
IRL is there actually an award for legend's of the game? I thought Jim just made it up :confused:
Anyway, here is the reason I came to this conclusion, "The Legend of the Game is awarded to a retiring player who has served his team loyally over a distinguished career or signifigant duration." But I do see your point in not penalizing the player because of the way it's become a business.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Don't forget the QB issues. Some teams will have 2 QB's that are outstanding, making 10 mil or more per year, then SIGN ANOTHER TOP QB??? Other teams let their top QB walk to sign a mediocre WR to a HUGE contract (Tennessee did this with McNair coming off his 3rd straight MVP season in '08) Also, nobody signs FA QB's and starts them for the one season only to start over again...

[Axxon]

IRL is there actually an award for legend's of the game? I thought Jim just made it up :confused:
Anyway, here is the reason I came to this conclusion, "The Legend of the Game is awarded to a retiring player who has served his team loyally over a distinguished career or signifigant duration." But I do see your point in not penalizing the player because of the way it's become a business.

Hey, you blurred the line between game and reality when you brought up Cal Ripkin and Brett Favre. :)

As for the definition of the award, I'll just say that I'd always considered it pretty much explanatory but obviously it isn't. It seems from the above quote that Jim was intending it to be team oriented but labelled it a more ambitious name. I can agree with your point given this definition; it does seem strange.


Have you looked at how long they were with each team though?? Jim adds "or signifigant ( sic ) duration" so are these guys maybe being rewarded for playing the heart of their careers with one team with movement coming at either or both ends. Even a five teamer who is with his teams like this 1-2-9-2-1 would be a legend of the game if his nine years were good enough. Just a thought.

[uglytuco]

I think one of the problems that hits a dude like me in this game, is that I too, like to see Legends of the Game. My own legends. So if I have a great QB, I will do whatever it takes to keep him, a good OL and some decent WRs so he will go in the record books. My current problem is that Ive got both a great QB & RB, and keeping them both plus their supporting cast costs an absolute fortune.

I kind of get my rivalries by checking the stats page. 'Who IS this other RB that leads the league every yr?' 'Will Manning ever retire so my younger QB can take over the league records from him?' So looking for player rivalries doesnt necessarily come from within your division or any 1 individual team, but from who you are competing with for those career records.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think the game is great. Though I've bought every game Jim's ever made, the last game I actually played was FOF2. (I played TCY and the other FOF's a few hours, but just never got into them). I have been playing FOF2K4 exclusively for the last month or so. It's been great fun. I am in the 2018 or 2019 season right now. I've won 5 out of 6 Super Bowls with the Lions. I had back to back "Legends of the Game" a few years ago. I was able to hold onto Boss Bailey, Stockar McDougle, and Terrence Holt for the entirety of their illustrious NFL careers.

Right now I am building my team around my stud running back. He has the best ratings I've ever seen. Red across the board. He was the 3rd over all pick. Keeping him meant downgrading at the QB spot which has hurt the team a bit. We also haven't really had a good secondary since Holt retired.