NFL Draft hype, rumour, and speculation thread

[cthomer5000]

With senior bowl practice in full swing, I thought maybe some would be interested in discussing what's going on with incoming rookies. As a Jet fan, my long hard off-season began weeks ago. Now I look forward to cursing management on draft-day, when they again make a ridiculous move.

some useful links

complete draft order by round (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/orderRD.htm)
draft picks by team (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/orderTM.htm)
Mel Kiper's page at ESPN.com (http://espn.go.com/melkiper/)

The whole key to the draft seems to be what San Diego does at #1. Honestly, it probably all comes down to how much say Schottenheimer has in personnel. I can't see him wanting to draft a QB, as he's more prone to want to win now in order to save his job.

Early mock drafts have the Jets talking an LB (Vilma, from Miami) and that sounds good to me. If they don't take a LB, DB, or OL in the first round - i may have to hurt somebody. I may not be completely furious if they take a receiver, but i think they have much more pressing needs (like at coach :mad: ).

[ice4277]

Speculation for the Lions is that they will look to one of the two top Miami prospects, Taylor or Winslow, or trade down. Personally, I think Winslow will probably be gone by 6, and I really think they need to focus on the offensive side of things with the first couple picks. I think trading down may be the best option here.

[MikeVic]

Steelers need O-line, RB, and DB... there are a couple of good CBs and RBs in the draft.. hopefully they get who they want. :) I also hope they start using Troy Polamalu (sp?) this year... they got him middle of the 1st round last year, and I only saw him play once near the end of the season.. he played with fire when I saw him though.

[cthomer5000]

Speculation for the Lions is that they will look to one of the two top Miami prospects, Taylor or Winslow, or trade down. Personally, I think Winslow will probably be gone by 6, and I really think they need to focus on the offensive side of things with the first couple picks. I think trading down may be the best option here.

Those Miami guys are going to be flying off the damn board. The hot rumor around the Jets is either 'Canes linebackers (Jonathan Vilma, D.J. Williams). Vilma seems to be the front-runner by far, but they may consider trading down if he's gone before then.

Off course, adding to all this is the fact that the Jets are apparently moving DE John Abraham (back) to linebacker. In my opinion this move is mind-blowing in riskiness. They drafted the guy as a LB, moved him to defensive end, where he is clearly an elite player when healthy (certainly one of the top 5 pass-rushers)... and now they'll move him to linebacker, just because they're desperate there. IMHO, it's going to put too much pressure (double-teams) on Shaun Ellis, who had just come around in his own right. The move is also clearly designed to justify the pick of DE Bryan Thomas, who is so far a mega-bust from 2 years ago. Perhaps if they really think this move is good, they'll wait until round 2 for a LB. I frankly think they should take the best available player at the positions of real need (LB, OL, DB).

[scooper]

Oooh. This is just the thread I've been waiting for. Mind if I move a little furniture in here? I'm going to want to get comfortable. I'll bring a couple extra chairs for everybody and pick up some pizza on the way.

[scooper]

Speculation for the Lions is that they will look to one of the two top Miami prospects, Taylor or Winslow, or trade down. Personally, I think Winslow will probably be gone by 6, and I really think they need to focus on the offensive side of things with the first couple picks. I think trading down may be the best option here.
I'm not so sure Winslow will be gone by 6. While I could see the skins taking him, I think they'll go RB or defensive line, maybe. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see them Winslow. If the lions want him, they're in a good spot. Although Taylor would not be a bad consolation prize. In fact, I'd rather have him. Taylor/Holt could make a nice combo to build a defense around.

[scooper]

Double Dola

My Bengals thoughts: I've seen a lot of mocks slotting Gamble to the Bengals. I don't agree with that at all. Corner is a big need, but I think that will be addressed through FA. I don't think they'll get one of the big ones, but I could see them signing an Ahmed Plummer or Bobby Taylor type. Plummer is from Cincinnati and has stated he would like to play here. Back to Gamble: his talent is limitless, but he's simply not polished enough as a corner to help this season and I think they need a defender who can step in immediately and make the team better.

I see them addressing the front seven either through LB or DL. The guy I'm pimping right now on Bengal boards is Randy Starks. For all the talk about DB's the weakest link on the Bengals last season was run defense. I think a good DT, DE or LB would help a lot and Starks is my favorite. I could also see them taking a LB such as DJ Williams or Jonathon Vilma, although 17 may be a bit high for Vilma.

While I think DT and LB are more crucial, if one of Will Smith or Udeze falls at DE, they have to take a serious look at them.

If they do take a corner, I like Straight out of OU because his skills are more refined and he could contribute now.

In round two, I see continuation of building the front seven. Maybe a Chad Lavalais or Isaac Sopoaga at DT, although both of them may be gone. I could also see them spending the second rounder on a running back because Corey Dillon will be gone. And I think they will get a second or third rounder for him.

[cthomer5000]

I don't know if this is just me, but in the 5 or so games I've seen Chris Gamble play.... he just seems kind of slow and stiff. I haven't seen anything overly spectacular about his play. If I was a fan of a team in the hunt for him, I'ld be quietly hoping somoene else drafted him.

He's honestly the only top "consensus-type" player I recall where seeing his highlight package didn't impress me in the least. I think he's benefitted a lot from the national title and the hype of his two-way playing from the previous year.

[Ksyrup]

If this is an NFL thread, I demand that you spell "rumor" correctly. This is not a CFL draft thread. :p

[cthomer5000]

If this is an NFL thread, I demand that you spell "rumor" correctly. This is not a CFL draft thread. :p

I don't know why, but this spelling has always felt natural to me. maybe i'm secretly british.

[Draft Dodger]

I still think the Chargers will go with Fitzgerald instead of a QB. That would put Manning in Silver and Black.

[albionmoonlight]

The Saints need a cornerback to play opposite Fred Thomas. However, they have needed a cornerback the last two offseasons and have not addressed the need in FA or the draft, so I have no faith that they will address the need this offseason. (I do not consider picking up Ashley Ambrose addressing the need).

[cthomer5000]

I still think the Chargers will go with Fitzgerald instead of a QB. That would put Manning in Silver and Black.

From a pure fan point of view, I really hope he lands in the AFC. It'd be nice if he and his brother are having near-annual shootouts. If he lands in the NFC, they may only play once or twice ever.

[cthomer5000]

I still think the Chargers will go with Fitzgerald instead of a QB. That would put Manning in Silver and Black.

Based on a gut feeling (and zero real-world info) I get the feeling the Raiders might be a team that would take Roethlisberger over Manning. Stronger arm and all... you know, "vertical passing" and all that.

Seems like that would be a Davis move if the two QB's stay as evenly ranked as they currently are.

[Samdari]

Well, cthomer, like you I have seen LBs at #12 for the Jets. They have to take either that position or WR there, or move down. As far as taking OL, where they really need help is OG, and I do not think there will be a player worth taking at 12 in that position. Maybe a CB, and there are 3 that represent value at that pick (Gamble, Poole, Robinson). The scoop on Poole is that he is perfect cover 2 type CB.

My dream draft for them would be to see them take one of the Miami LB in the first round, followed by Rashaun Woods in the second. I think Woods is a better than #42 talent, but there are a lot of WR that could go ahead of him. Fitzgerald, Williams, Williams, Clayton, Jenkins, and maybe Evans will all go ahead. Keary Colbert would also be a great second rounder. A high rated guy who is not being talked about much is Auburn's Karlos Dansby. If he were to somehow slip to 42, that would be huge for the Jets.

Another senior bowl report is that Darnell Dockett of FSU has been very impressive. He's long been considered a mega-talent, but has underperformed that label. Mel currently has him below the top 5 DTs, but I think he will end up 2nd or 3rd in that category, and in the first round.

Almost every mock draft has the Redskins taking Winslow. I do not actually think they will do so, they will take Harris or Will Smith, and look for Utah State's Chris Cooley in the third round as a receiving TE or H-back. You just get more bang from your buck taking positions other than TE when you draft that high.

EDIT: Oh yeah, with so much money into Boston, I don't see how the Chargers take Fitzgerald, and have so much cap space into WR, but noone to throw them the ball. Between being still spooked about Leaf, and having such an unsettled stadium situation, I really have trouble imagining the Bolts wanting to pay a #1 pick. I see them being desperate to trade out and making a deal in which they don't get value. Noone will trade up to take a wideout, so the top of the draft goes Manning, Fitz (Davis believes in Tuiasosopo) Roethlesberger then Gallery.

[mmarra82]

Those Miami guys are going to be flying off the damn board. The hot rumor around the Jets is either 'Canes linebackers (Jonathan Vilma, D.J. Williams). Vilma seems to be the front-runner by far, but they may consider trading down if he's gone before then.

Off course, adding to all this is the fact that the Jets are apparently moving DE John Abraham (back) to linebacker. In my opinion this move is mind-blowing in riskiness. They drafted the guy as a LB, moved him to defensive end, where he is clearly an elite player when healthy (certainly one of the top 5 pass-rushers)... and now they'll move him to linebacker, just because they're desperate there. IMHO, it's going to put too much pressure (double-teams) on Shaun Ellis, who had just come around in his own right. The move is also clearly designed to justify the pick of DE Bryan Thomas, who is so far a mega-bust from 2 years ago. Perhaps if they really think this move is good, they'll wait until round 2 for a LB. I frankly think they should take the best available player at the positions of real need (LB, OL, DB).

Jets have talked that the LB corp will be Cowart, Hobson in the middle and Abraham on the outside. Abraham will be moved to the DE position in nickel and dime situations. They say Abraham has been vulnerable against the run as a DE. And I don't think it is safe to say Bryan Thomas is a bust. He was solid while filling in for Abraham, although he registered 0 sacks.

[John Galt]

Steelers need O-line, RB, and DB... there are a couple of good CBs and RBs in the draft.. hopefully they get who they want. :) I also hope they start using Troy Polamalu (sp?) this year... they got him middle of the 1st round last year, and I only saw him play once near the end of the season.. he played with fire when I saw him though.
What about QB? I think that is a much larger need than O-Line and I don't think they will waste an early pick on a RB. I see the Steelers as a team that will look to trade up to get one of the QB's or trade down because the talent level won't be high at their need positions when they are on the board.

[cthomer5000]

And I don't think it is safe to say Bryan Thomas is a bust. He was solid while filling in for Abraham, although he registered 0 sacks.

If you replace the word "solid" with "invisible" I completely agree.

[Kokoshin]

As for the Dolphins, it seems we're bound to upgrade the offensive line or grab somebody opposite Chris Chambers. Another possibility is QB but should be picked in 3rd round, since we traded our 2nd.

[mmarra82]

Maybe the word solid is the best to describe Thomas, but he did improve at the end of the season getting playing time, and they feel he can do the job. I am not saying I agree with moving Thomas, just basing it off some of the stuff I heard on the radio following the last game of the season and reading some of the articles in the paper.

[Logan]

As for the Chargers, they were in this position before. They had a shot at the stud QB with the top pick (Vick), but chose to go the route of taking a big-time skill player (LT) and getting a 2nd-round QB (Brees). While the pick of LT certainly warranted the risk of passing over Vick, I don't think they will put themselves in that position again, and will take Manning.

As for this Niner fan, what do you say is a need for a team that has about half of its starters as UFAs? I guess its easier to say we don't need a QB, OL, RB, or TE. Kiper has us taking Wilfork. I don't see it. While we need a DT, this team has taken way too many DTs that haven't panned out (REGGIE MCGREW!!!--ehem...sorry :)) And its not the most glaring need. We'll probably end up taking a corner or trading down.

[scooper]

I don't know if this is just me, but in the 5 or so games I've seen Chris Gamble play.... he just seems kind of slow and stiff. I haven't seen anything overly spectacular about his play. If I was a fan of a team in the hunt for him, I'ld be quietly hoping somoene else drafted him.

He's honestly the only top "consensus-type" player I recall where seeing his highlight package didn't impress me in the least. I think he's benefitted a lot from the national title and the hype of his two-way playing from the previous year.
He's not slow, but I can see the stiffness. I think it's just not being comfortable with the position. It's hard to utilize speed when you don't know which way to go.

[TLK]

hXXp://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/computerdraft.html

7 Round Mock Draft at The Huddle Report. I love that site.......

[Kokoshin]

hXXp://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/computerdraft.html

7 Round Mock Draft at The Huddle Report. I love that site.......
Yep. A personal favourite. The funniest thing is that they feature three mock drafts (apart from the computer one) and they have three different first picks (Eli Manning, Robert Gallery, Sean Taylor).

[Aylmar]

What about QB? I think that is a much larger need than O-Line and I don't think they will waste an early pick on a RB. I see the Steelers as a team that will look to trade up to get one of the QB's or trade down because the talent level won't be high at their need positions when they are on the board.

With a decent line in front of him, Maddox will be fine for at least another season. Give him a running game and time to throw the ball and he works wonders. Make him run for his life...well, he just doesn't deal with it very well (just like a good portion of the other QBs in the NFL). This is not to say that the Steelers won't go after a QB, but I don't think it's as severe a need as say...tackle.

I think the best move the Steelers can make is to send a future 2nd rounder to Houston for the rights to Henson. Lot of work to do before that happens, but I'm reading more and more speculation that the Steelers and Texans are going to make a deal. After that, you go CB/OL, OL/CB, RB in the first three rounds.

MikeVic - Polamalu actually played in the Steelers nickel and dime defenses all season. He became much more visible down the stretch when the Steelers began using him to blitz.

[John Galt]

With a decent line in front of him, Maddox will be fine for at least another season. Give him a running game and time to throw the ball and he works wonders. Make him run for his life...well, he just doesn't deal with it very well (just like a good portion of the other QBs in the NFL). This is not to say that the Steelers won't go after a QB, but I don't think it's as severe a need as say...tackle.

I think the best move the Steelers can make is to send a future 2nd rounder to Houston for the rights to Henson. Lot of work to do before that happens, but I'm reading more and more speculation that the Steelers and Texans are going to make a deal. After that, you go CB/OL, OL/CB, RB in the first three rounds.

MikeVic - Polamalu actually played in the Steelers nickel and dime defenses all season. He became much more visible down the stretch when the Steelers began using him to blitz.
I have to disagree about Maddox. He is way too turnover prone and has just one part of a year where he kept INT's to a minimum. And when you watch his INT's, they aren't usually batted balls, they are the who-the-hell-are-you-throwing-to type. Either that or he zones on one guy (Kordell style) and throws a pitck. I think Tommy is at best a top 20 QB in the league and is not the long term answer. I agree T is a need, but I just think the Steelers need to be more proactive about their QB situation rather than relying on catching lightning in a bottle every few years (O'Donnell to Stewart to Maddox).

[Maple Leafs]

Early mock drafts have the Jets talking an LB (Vilma, from Miami) and that sounds good to me. If they don't take a LB, DB, or OL in the first round - i may have to hurt somebody. I may not be completely furious if they take a receiver, but i think they have much more pressing needs (like at coach :mad: ).I've seen several mocks where the Jets do indeed take a WR. Each one includes some comment about Moss not necessarily being a real #1 guy. Not having seen the Jets much, why would they say that about him? His numbers were solid.

[Aylmar]

I have to disagree about Maddox. He is way too turnover prone and has just one part of a year where he kept INT's to a minimum. And when you watch his INT's, they aren't usually batted balls, they are the who-the-hell-are-you-throwing-to type. Either that or he zones on one guy (Kordell style) and throws a pitck. I think Tommy is at best a top 20 QB in the league and is not the long term answer.

As far as the long term solution, I certainly agree that Maddox is not the answer. With time to throw, however, I think he's servicable for at least another season. Unless the Steelers can either get Henson (as I mentioned) or a top-tier guy at #11, I think they have more pressing needs to fill than the QB spot.

[General Mike]

I've seen several mocks where the Jets do indeed take a WR. Each one includes some comment about Moss not necessarily being a real #1 guy. Not having seen the Jets much, why would they say that about him? His numbers were solid.

Size Issues. If you put him across from, or in the slot next to, a physical wide receiver like Terrell Owens or whoever, he would be devastating.

Of the mock drafts I've seen, it has the Giants getting Gallery and the Jaguars getting Roy Williams. If that happened, I would be very happy.

[Draft Dodger]

As for the Chargers, they were in this position before. They had a shot at the stud QB with the top pick (Vick), but chose to go the route of taking a big-time skill player (LT) and getting a 2nd-round QB (Brees). While the pick of LT certainly warranted the risk of passing over Vick, I don't think they will put themselves in that position again, and will take Manning.

I guess I'm just not totally convinced that Brees isn't going to turn it around. They've got a couple years invested in him - if they go with Manning, they have to, essentially, waste all the time spent with Brees. I'm not saying they wont do it, of course.

[ice4277]

If the lions want him, they're in a good spot. Although Taylor would not be a bad consolation prize. In fact, I'd rather have him. Taylor/Holt could make a nice combo to build a defense around.
Yeah, Taylor/Bly/Bailey/Rodgers and, hopefully Holt if he develops as well as everybody says he will, would be a very solid defensive core. However, it was not the defense that lost games for the Lions this year. It was the lack of a playmaker after Rogers went out that killed them off. Harrington got ripped a bunch here this year, but who the hell did he have to go to?

[cthomer5000]

I've seen several mocks where the Jets do indeed take a WR. Each one includes some comment about Moss not necessarily being a real #1 guy. Not having seen the Jets much, why would they say that about him? His numbers were solid.

No doubt he had a breakout year. Before this season, there was absolutely no way you could have conisdered him worth the 1st round selection.

But,he kind of disappeared late in the season when consistently seeing the best opposing CB. I think he will work best with a receiver of his equal. He's not a #1 guy, but would work best as a #2 or a 1A/1B combo (like if we had just kept Coles). Also, the fact that he also returns punts (and increases his likelihood of injury) probably makes it a good idea to bring in a #1 guy. Samdari's scenario of grabbing Rashuan Woods in the 2nd round would be great, i hope it can become a reality. That way they can address a more pressing need (LB) and get a nice counterpart to Moss.

[cthomer5000]

As far as the long term solution, I certainly agree that Maddox is not the answer. With time to throw, however, I think he's servicable for at least another season. Unless the Steelers can either get Henson (as I mentioned) or a top-tier guy at #11, I think they have more pressing needs to fill than the QB spot.

I think that would be a pretty good solution. Henson is supposedly the real deal. Assuming he gets out of his baseball contract, I think Houston would gladly accept a 2nd rounder in 2005 for him - they only invested a 6th.

Still, i don't see how you could expect Henson to start before year 3 in the NFL. He's going to need to shake off a lot of rust. So is 2 years of Maddox a good idea, or should the Steelers just go the FA route?

[Samdari]

Samdari's scenario of grabbing Rashuan Woods in the 2nd round would be great

Like I said, that's a dream scenario. Realistically, I see one of the following happening:

Woods gets taken by the Panthers late in the first.

OR

He slides all the way to the 42nd pick, and the Jets pass on him to take an unknown DL from a small school who was projected as a 4th rounder. Needless to say, he busts.

[MikeVic]

MikeVic - Polamalu actually played in the Steelers nickel and dime defenses all season. He became much more visible down the stretch when the Steelers began using him to blitz.

Yeah, I guess I missed him all season until I saw him blitzing. :D

[cthomer5000]

Like I said, that's a dream scenario. Realistically, I see one of the following happening:

Woods gets taken by the Panthers late in the first.

OR

He slides all the way to the 42nd pick, and the Jets pass on him to take an unknown DL from a small school who was projected as a 4th rounder. Needless to say, he busts.

scenario 2 is probably more likely. I honestly have no faith in the management of this team. It's very difficult to waver between wanting to win (as any fan does) and wanting to get the coach & G.M. removed as quickly as possible (which will require losing).

[MrBug708]

WHoever grabs Steven Jackson is gonna get a gold mine of a RB. He's 5 times better then Kevin Jones is

[MikeVic]

I think that would be a pretty good solution. Henson is supposedly the real deal. Assuming he gets out of his baseball contract, I think Houston would gladly accept a 2nd rounder in 2005 for him - they only invested a 6th.

Still, i don't see how you could expect Henson to start before year 3 in the NFL. He's going to need to shake off a lot of rust. So is 2 years of Maddox a good idea, or should the Steelers just go the FA route?

What's Trent Dilfer doing these days? I have no clue about Henson, but if you all say he's good then I'll believe that. Who are the FA QBs out there?

[Aylmar]

I think that would be a pretty good solution. Henson is supposedly the real deal. Assuming he gets out of his baseball contract, I think Houston would gladly accept a 2nd rounder in 2005 for him - they only invested a 6th.

Still, i don't see how you could expect Henson to start before year 3 in the NFL. He's going to need to shake off a lot of rust. So is 2 years of Maddox a good idea, or should the Steelers just go the FA route?

I think two years with Maddox would be alright, if it came to that. I'd much rather see them either keep Maddox around until Henson developed or maybe pass the torch to Batch (another servicable QB that will look pretty good with a top tier running game -- at least as good as anyone you're going to get for mid-level dollars in the FA market) for the second season (assuming Henson needs it, which is a good assumption). I've always believed that with a top shelf offensive line and a great ground game, you can get by with journeymen QBs. I'd love to see the Steelers have an awesome quarterback, but I think that rebuilding the ground game should come first.

[scooper]

Yeah, Taylor/Bly/Bailey/Rodgers and, hopefully Holt if he develops as well as everybody says he will, would be a very solid defensive core. However, it was not the defense that lost games for the Lions this year. It was the lack of a playmaker after Rogers went out that killed them off. Harrington got ripped a bunch here this year, but who the hell did he have to go to?
I don't think Bailey will leave Washington. I think he'll be tagged. Any info from Redskin homers here? If he does leave, he'll be reuited with Marvin Lewis :D :ifisayitoftenenoughitwillcometrue:

On the Maddox issue: Too often teams have gotten false hope when a mediocre to poor QB puts up one good year or a couple good years that are not back to back. Heck, the Steelers got burned that way with Stewart. As a Bengals fan, I hope this continues to plague them, but I think realistically, they may need to look ahead just incase he isn't the answer.

That's a big reason I'm kind of looking for Carson Palmer this year. I really like Jon Kitna, but this year was one good season amidst many when he committed too many turnovers.

Of course on the other side of the coin, there are always players like Rich Gannon-Trent Green-and to an extent, Brad Johnson who don't really "get it" until later in their careers. That's not unheard of at a position as cerebral as QB.

If the Steelers can get Henson for a second, they have to pounce on it.

[timmae]

I guess I'm just not totally convinced that Brees isn't going to turn it around. They've got a couple years invested in him - if they go with Manning, they have to, essentially, waste all the time spent with Brees. I'm not saying they wont do it, of course.

I'd hate to be in SD's shoes right now... either way it won't look, feel or sound good in San Diego. They took Leaf with a high pick and he flopped. They took Brees with a high pick and he flopped. They passed on Vick with a high pick and they slapped themselves. I think they absolutely have to pick Manning if he's there. I don't think there's much confidence in Brees to warrant keeping him around. Pin your hopes on Manning... a 50% chance at a stud QB is better than a 60% chance on a decent QB in my eyes....

[cthomer5000]

Like I said, that's a dream scenario. Realistically, I see one of the following happening:

Woods gets taken by the Panthers late in the first.

I guess the real question is, how many WR's get taken in the first 41 picks? I'd be very happy with any of these 6 guys.

WR Larry Fitzgerald, Pitt
WR Roy Williams, Texas
WR Reggie Williams, Washington
WR Michael Clayton, LSU
WR Rashaun Woods, Ok. St.
WR Michael Jenkins, Ohio State

I've also seen WR Lee Evans, Wisconsin thrown in there, but I know very little about him. Again though... If any of these guys even make it out of the first round... will the first 9 teams pass on him in the 2nd?

[cthomer5000]

What's Trent Dilfer doing these days? I have no clue about Henson, but if you all say he's good then I'll believe that. Who are the FA QBs out there?

Henson was the consensus to be the #1 overall pick coming out of college... then somewhat surprisingly left football to play for the Yankees (minor league system), and got a HUGE guaranteed contract to do so. He's been really struggling in the minors, and reportedly is ready to go back to football.

Basically, he's supposed to have the talent, but will likely take a little longer than a regular rookie to be ready to start.

[Samdari]

WHoever grabs Steven Jackson is gonna get a gold mine of a RB. He's 5 times better then Kevin Jones is

Nah, Kevin Jones is a complete stud. Whoever takes him is getting a complete steal. He has top 5 talent, and won't likely get drafted there.

[John Galt]

I think two years with Maddox would be alright, if it came to that. I'd much rather see them either keep Maddox around until Henson developed or maybe pass the torch to Batch (another servicable QB that will look pretty good with a top tier running game -- at least as good as anyone you're going to get for mid-level dollars in the FA market) for the second season (assuming Henson needs it, which is a good assumption). I've always believed that with a top shelf offensive line and a great ground game, you can get by with journeymen QBs. I'd love to see the Steelers have an awesome quarterback, but I think that rebuilding the ground game should come first.
Normally I would agree, but the Steelers offensive talent is all at WR. They may have the best group of 3 in the NFL and a lot of money tied up there. Focusing on the ground game and keep a below average QB underutilizes the most talented position on the team.

[cthomer5000]

Normally I would agree, but the Steelers offensive talent is all at WR. They may have the best group of 3 in the NFL and a lot of money tied up there. Focusing on the ground game and keep a below average QB underutilizes the most talented position on the team.

Agreed. Unless you're trading one of those guys, they should be in as many 3 WR sets as humanly possible. Seems like 3 WR, TE, single back should be their base formation as long as Ward/Burress/Randle-El are together.

The more i think about it, the more I think Mark Brunell wouldn't be a bad addition this year. Hell, even Jeff George would be able to put up some monster numbers with those guys. :)

[scooper]

Normally I would agree, but the Steelers offensive talent is all at WR. They may have the best group of 3 in the NFL and a lot of money tied up there. Focusing on the ground game and keep a below average QB underutilizes the most talented position on the team.
Good point. I think the Steelers have had a bit of an offensive identity crisis and it hurt them this year.

Going back a few years, they had the Bus running full speed, solid tackles and a very good interior O-line. They were a power football team that needed SOME improvement in the passing game to put them over the top. They busted on Edwards at WR and committed all out to improving their WR corps to complement their power game. What happened? They kind of accidentally ended up with one of the best WR corps in the league and found some success when they went to a spread offense

During that time, the core of a once awesome power running game got old or left. At the same time, the once dominant defense became "good" instead of "great." With the inability to stop other teams' passing games, the need to control the ball became important again, but it was too late, the Steelers were a spread football team that was not protecting a QB who in turn was turning the ball over again.

That's just a few thougts from a Bengals fan who watches the division pretty closely. The evolution of football teams fascinates me.

[ice4277]

[QUOTE=scooper]I don't think Bailey will leave Washington. I think he'll be tagged. Any info from Redskin homers here? If he does leave, he'll be reuited with Marvin Lewis :D :ifisayitoftenenoughitwillcometrue:

Sorry, I meant his brother, and current Lion, Boss Bailey :) However, it would be nice to see the brothers reunited in Honolulu Blue!

[Aylmar]

Agreed. Unless you're trading one of those guys, they should be in as many 3 WR sets as humanly possible. Seems like 3 WR, TE, single back should be their base formation as long as Ward/Burress/Randle-El are together.

The more i think about it, the more I think Mark Brunell wouldn't be a bad addition this year. Hell, even Jeff George would be able to put up some monster numbers with those guys. :)

You better do it this year, then, because Burress will walk at the end of the season. I don't think the Steelers are going to pay him (in the free agent market) what he can get elsewhere, and after the drops last season, I don't think they'll try to negotiate a new contract for him this off-season.

As much as I love Ward, without Burress on the other side to draw some of the coverage away from him, he is not the same receiver (his numbers go from great to good). Randle El is a decent slot guy, but he can't replace Burress. If you're truly looking long term, I say you look at the ground game. You can try to replace Burress in the draft next year, sure, but it will most likely take a year or two for the new guy to develop into a real threat.

[mckerney]

D.J. Williams is currently projected to go to the Vikes at 19, probably not the guy I'd want the most but I'd be very happy with adding him to Cottrell's defense.

[JeeberD]

Kiper was the Cowboys taking Chris Perry at 22. I would certainly be happy with that pick. Anyone to get Hambrick out of the staring line-up...

[Samdari]

Kiper was the Cowboys taking Chris Perry at 22. I would certainly be happy with that pick. Anyone to get Hambrick out of the staring line-up...

I am surprised at this. I see the Boys trading for (or signing) Corey Dillon, signing Mark Brunell and going elsewhere with their pick.

[HornedFrog Purple]

If they take Chris Perry at 22, I'll puke...

They need a pass rusher, a corner, an offensive and defensive tackle, and an offensive guard more than a running back. 3rd round they can get their back.

If they draft any back in the first round it should be Cadillac Williams. If he is gone, don't bother.

[Buccaneer]

The Bolts should trade down to get the best defensive skills player. Another new QB ain't going to help much if you can't play defense. The offense can be centered around LT and that might be good enough to keep Brees going.

[scooper]

If they take Chris Perry at 22, I'll puke...

They need a pass rusher, a corner, an offensive and defensive tackle, and an offensive guard more than a running back. 3rd round they can get their back.

If they draft any back in the first round it should be Cadillac Williams. If he is gone, don't bother.
The Caddy's staying in school.

[HornedFrog Purple]

ahhh well that answers that....

I should have more faith then in previous years in whomever they draft, Jerry isn't drafting anymore. I don't think Tuna will draft Chris Perry at 22.

Personally I don't think there are any 1st round worthy backs in this draft if Caddy isn't going.

[mckerney]

ahhh well that answers that....

I should have more faith then in previous years in whomever they draft, Jerry isn't drafting anymore. I don't think Tuna will draft Chris Perry at 22.

Personally I don't think there are any 1st round worthy backs in this draft if Caddy isn't going.

Perry isn't worth it in the first round, only back I'd go for in the first round this year would we Jones, possibly Jackson late.

[dawgfan]

The scuttlebut around the Seahawks is that it's unlikely they'll find a DT they really like at #23, so they may instead opt for a good LB and look for a DT or DE in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. The talk is that while there aren't a lot of top DT/DE prospects, it's a large pool and you could get a good player later, like a Dave Ball from UCLA.

It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that the Seahawks could take a WR with their 1st pick. Darrell Jackson is a free agent (I can't remember if he's restricted or unrestricted) and he's not worth franchising. They'll try to resign him, but with the sudden case of the dropsies he picked up this season there may be some incentive to go with a Rashaun Woods, Michael Clayton, etc. if they're available. With all the stud WR's in this draft, some guys are likely to slip. There would be a lot of PR pressure for Seattle to take Reggie Williams if he somehow slides that far.

[Thomkal]

It would be typical Cardinal karma-i.e. bad if the winning of the last game of the season cost them a shot at the QB they desperately need.

I can see SD and Oak both going for a QB despite their other needs. I'm hoping Marty staying on is a signal that they aren't giving up on Brees quite yet though. I don't know who the Cards go after if both QB's are gone-they would be fools to go after a WR after selecting two in the first two rounds of the last draft. They always need secondary help, but somehow drafting a CB isn't as exciting as drafting a potential franchise QB. Sigh.

[haji1]

I can't see Al going after a QB. He likes Tui and it has never been his MO to draft a QB high, kicker on the other hand. . .

I think it will depend on what the Raiders plan to do. If they think they just need a couple of pieces to get back in the playoffs I see Fitz being there man, or Gallery if they feel the line was the problem last year. If they are going to beging a rebuilding process I could see a small trade down and get S Taylor or keeping the pick and choosing one of the two QB's. One other secenario would be trading way down and picking up a few picks to get a couple of solid defensive linemen.

[JPhillips]

While it wouldn't surprise me to see the Bengals go with a CB in round 1, I really think Marvin is going to drop 4 or 5 picks on the o and d lines. He needs a guard and a center(I love huddlereport's pick of Stepanovich in round 5) and then that line will be dominate. The tackles are set and Steinbach is going to be a great guard.

On the d-line they have to get an anchor at tackle that can clog the middle. Too many times the linebackers were blocked by o-linemen. They need a run stopper desperately. They also need a pass rushing end. There secondary sucks, but part of that is the failure to get pressure.

I believe Marvin is going to build this team from the lines out. He has a bunch of playmakers on offense and can pick up one or two secondary guys in FA(I agree that Plummer is the most likely). This is the draft that will get the Bengals into the playoffs!

[The_herd]

The bears are hoping Kevin Jones drops to them at #14. Angelo has never been a fan of the A-Train and wants more speed at the position. I see them going any number of ways if Jones is gone when they pick. D-Line and O-Line would be a good way to go since I don't think they will go secondary with Tillman emerging at the corner position.

I would be thrilled if they landed Jones, but I wouldn't be disappointed if they got a tackle and moved Gibson back inside at guard to replace Vallarrial. At the same time, I also wouldn't mind seeing a run stuffer of a DT picked there either, but with the way the draft works now, I would be surprised if a really good one falls to them at #14.

[miami_fan]

I would love for the the Dolphins to pick Vernon Carey but for some reason they have an aversion to drafting former Hurricanes.

[ntndeacon]

I would really like it if Tommie Harris falls to the Falcons, but Iimagine he wont last.

[SteelerFan448]

There is a rumor for a trade between the Steelers and Falcons.

It involves the Falcons first draft pick and TJ Duckett going to Pittsburgh for their first rounder and Plaxico Burress.

This would give the Falcons two good WRs and they only move down four spots.
The Steelers get the running back they need and move up in the draft which gives the the opportunity to take the best player available or trade down with a team such as New England to gain more picks.

[JeeberD]

If they take Chris Perry at 22, I'll puke...

They need a pass rusher, a corner, an offensive and defensive tackle, and an offensive guard more than a running back. 3rd round they can get their back.

If they draft any back in the first round it should be Cadillac Williams. If he is gone, don't bother.

The defense seems to be in much better shape that the offense to me. The key to getting the Cowboys O up and running is getting their running game going. Once that happens, it will open things up for Q.

The D certainly does need a pass rusher and another corner. I think it's also time to start looking for a replacement for Woody, cause he's not going to be around for a whole lot longer. But the Cowboys still had one of the top D's in the league last year. IMHO, need number one is a running back...

Edit: Oh, and I also heard a couple of weeks ago that the Cowboys scouts are in love with Phillip Rivers. So who knows, they may go that route...

[mckerney]

IMHO, need number one is a running back...

I'm not sure that Perry will be a #1 back in the NFL. I could definitely see him being a good 3rd down back, but I'm not sure if he'll be a top guy.

[cthomer5000]

I'm pretty confident San Diego will not take a QB at #1. Schottenheimer and his staff are coaching the South team in the Senior Bowl - meaning he's been working with the #3 and #4 QB prospects all week. History has shown that the Senior Bowl staffs definitely tend to end up favoring players they've worked with when it comes draft time.

I think they'll either go elsewhere at #1 or trade down, then take the best QB available in round 2. I think Losman or Rivers will probably be there for them to select.

This is essentially a guess, but i really think this makes a lot of sense. I don't know if it's in the best interestes of San Diego (long-term), but we'll see come draft day.

[miami_fan]

I'm pretty confident San Diego will not take a QB at #1. Schottenheimer and his staff are coaching the South team in the Senior Bowl - meaning he's been working with the #3 and #4 QB prospects all week. History has shown that the Senior Bowl staffs definitely tend to end up favoring players they've worked with when it comes draft time.

I think they'll either go elsewhere at #1 or trade down, then take the best QB available in round 2. I think Losman or Rivers will probably be there for them to select.

This is essentially a guess, but i really think this makes a lot of sense. I don't know if it's in the best interestes of San Diego (long-term), but we'll see come draft day.

I think it would be best for the Chargers to trade down myself but who trades up to get the #1. The question I have is who do they trade with? I think most of the team don't believe they will pick a QB. The general consensus is that the team that trade up to #1 is looking for a QB in general and Eli Manning specifically. I don't think that the difference between Manning and Roethlisberger is enough that Oakland or Arizona should trade up from where they are at. Pittsburgh has been suggested in this thread as needing a QB but I would not drop down out of the top ten if I were the Chargers. Who needs a QB bad enough after that to move up to #1?

[judicial clerk]

If Manning and Roethlisberger are as good as advertised, then I believe the Raiders should pick up one of them. It is not often that a team, Bengals and Cardinals not withstanding, gets a chance to draft a franchise QB. Otherwise, they can pick up Gallery to replace the retiring Lincoln kennedy or Fitzgerald to play opposite Porter in the long run and Challenge Jerry Rice and Handwarmer Brown in the short run. All I know is that the Raiders should not trade down below the number 4 pick. I would also be interested to know if Henson is as good as the above mentioned QBs. If so, then it seems like a 2nd round pick is a steal.

My dream would be to trade for Henson 9to replace Gannon in one two three years, and pick up gallery or Fitzgerald and draft nothing but defense the rest of the way.

[MrBug708]

Nah, Kevin Jones is a complete stud. Whoever takes him is getting a complete steal. He has top 5 talent, and won't likely get drafted there.

Fell for the hype I see

[Balldog]

I just hope the Patriots draft a running back with one of their two first round picks, I wouldn't even mind them trading both picks to move up to get Jackson or Jones.

[GrantDawg]

There is a rumor for a trade between the Steelers and Falcons.

It involves the Falcons first draft pick and TJ Duckett going to Pittsburgh for their first rounder and Plaxico Burress.

This would give the Falcons two good WRs and they only move down four spots.
The Steelers get the running back they need and move up in the draft which gives the the opportunity to take the best player available or trade down with a team such as New England to gain more picks.
I like that idea a lot. Though it would be better for purely selfish reasons if we could get Hines instead. Burress is probably a better fit, but I would to be able to see Ward every week.

[B & B]

I will vomit on the spot if Detroit signs Winslow.

[cthomer5000]

I'd like to point out that I posted that bit about San Diego not taking a QB about 2 minutes before Rivers absolutely lit up the Senior Bowl. I like my guess even more now.

As for who would trade up to get a QB? We're probably talking about a blockbuster trade, but here are some guesses:

Miami
Buffalo
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Giants

Those are teams I think *should* consider it. It would be very out of character for the Giants, the Browns probably don't want to draft another QB so highly so soon, Pittsburgh has been incredibly stubborn in trying to find a real QB for quite some time, Buffalo seems to be content with Bledsoe for at least 1 year under Mularkey. Miami probably won't be willing to give up what it would take to get up to #1 or 2.

If i were the Giants or Browns, i'd be trying to pull it off. They wouldn't have to give up too much to get to 1 or 2.

[Bearcat729]

I would love to the Rivers drop to Cleveland in the second round, but in no way should the Browns draft another QB to get killed because our OL is horrible.

I want Gallery or Andrews. If they take a QB take one late. It's too bad that Rivers played his way into the first round because he always reminded me of Kosar.

[General Mike]

I would love to the Rivers drop to Cleveland in the second round, but in no way should the Browns draft another QB to get killed because our OL is horrible.

I want Gallery or Andrews. If they take a QB take one late. It's too bad that Rivers played his way into the first round because he always reminded me of Kosar.

Gallery will have to have a Terrell Suggs level combine to drop past 4, and even then I still don't think he will get past there.

[General Mike]

dola - I found this mock draft.

http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2004/Draft/Mock_Draft.htm

Their draft picks make no sense. Who has projected Udeze as a top 3 pick?

[cthomer5000]

dola - I found this mock draft.

http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2004/Draft/Mock_Draft.htm

Their draft picks make no sense. Who has projected Udeze as a top 3 pick?
Mock drafts at this time of year are generally all over the place. Udeze is supposedly ranked in the 10-15 range right now. Even with a monster combine, I don't see him moving up past the 5-8 range. Big time tackle and 2 QB's will be 1-3 no matter what.

[Cringer]

dola - I found this mock draft.

http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2004/Draft/Mock_Draft.htm

Their draft picks make no sense. Who has projected Udeze as a top 3 pick?

They have the Packers taking an O lineman, thats almost as bad as one i saw that had the Packers taking a WR in the first round.

Packers should go after defense, DT, DE, and S being top wishes, although LB and CB not far behind. I have seen a lot saying the Packers will go QB in first round but i don't think so. If our defense gets better, we have a shot at the Superbowl next year, so defense is the key target in the first 2 rounds i think. I would like a safety and a LB, but won't argue to much with any defensive position.

[mckerney]

They have the Packers taking an O lineman, thats almost as bad as one i saw that had the Packers taking a WR in the first round.

Packers should go after defense, DT, DE, and S being top wishes, although LB and CB not far behind. I have seen a lot saying the Packers will go QB in first round but i don't think so. If our defense gets better, we have a shot at the Superbowl next year, so defense is the key target in the first 2 rounds i think. I would like a safety and a LB, but won't argue to much with any defensive position.

It wouldn't be a bad move for the Packers to take a wideout in the first or second year, which I'd put right up there with D-Line and D-Back in their needs. Sure, Farve is a good Qb, but their recieving corp has no one I'd be real confident in. Picking up Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, or Michael Jenkins would be a good move on their part.

[The Afoci]

This thread has completely killed my desire to watch the NFL Draft... I mean, no one here has been picked yet... I really hope the teams don't see this...

[ice4277]

And with that, the video game character draft has jumped the shark.

[cthomer5000]

It looks like the Drew Henson trade talk is heating up. ESPN has an article describing the whole situation and the potentially interested teams, and they're pretty much who you'd expect (Pitt, Green Bay, Buffalo, Miami, and a somewhat interesting Kansas City).

We definitely talked about this situation at length after the draft (perhaps I'll hunt up the thread)... but it's an odd one for Henson. It seems like it boils down to getting more money if he re-enters the draft, versus going where he decides he wants to via trade.

[rkmsuf]

It looks like the Drew Henson trade talk is heating up. ESPN has an article describing the whole situation and the potentially interested teams, and they're pretty much who you'd expect (Pitt, Green Bay, Buffalo, Miami, and a somewhat interesting Kansas City).

We definitely talked about this situation at length after the draft (perhaps I'll hunt up the thread)... but it's an odd one for Henson. It seems like it boils down to getting more money if he re-enters the draft, versus going where he decides he wants to via trade.

One of the problems is that Henson is making way more from the Yankees than he'd get in the NFL and it's guaranteed. He's got 12 mil coming to him. I assure you he's not getting a bonus like that.

[ice4277]

What about the injury to Boone for the Yankees? Could even the possibility of him getting a shot at 3rd make him want to stay in baseball a bit longer?

[The_herd]

One of the problems is that Henson is making way more from the Yankees than he'd get in the NFL and it's guaranteed. He's got 12 mil coming to him. I assure you he's not getting a bonus like that.

But he's already stated that's he's going to walk away from that. His agent is trying to finalize an agreement to pay back part of his bonus so he can sign with the Texans, which appears to the route he wants to take.

I think the smart thing to do would be for him to sign a 3 year deal with the Texans and request a trade to either K.C. or Green Bay. Either way he should have enough starts by the time the contract is up to be able to cash in with a big contract....if he performs.

[The_herd]

What about the injury to Boone for the Yankees? Could even the possibility of him getting a shot at 3rd make him want to stay in baseball a bit longer?

The Yankees really aren't interested in him playing for them anymore. I think both sides have realized that he's not an everyday major league player and football is his best bet at this point.

[General Mike]

It looks like the Drew Henson trade talk is heating up. ESPN has an article describing the whole situation and the potentially interested teams, and they're pretty much who you'd expect (Pitt, Green Bay, Buffalo, Miami, and a somewhat interesting Kansas City).

We definitely talked about this situation at length after the draft (perhaps I'll hunt up the thread)... but it's an odd one for Henson. It seems like it boils down to getting more money if he re-enters the draft, versus going where he decides he wants to via trade.

How much money could Henson get if he goes the trade route? It would still be based on last year's rookie cap, correct? He could always take a very cap friendly deal tho and immediately renegotiate I suppose. Very interesting situation.

[cthomer5000]

On the guaranteed contract:

From his perspective, that's got to be impossible to walk away from. That's why he and his agent are trying (praying) to work out a buyout. I think if they could take 4-5 mill and walk, they'd gladly accept. There's no doubt Henson wants to play football at this point, as he's been working out/practicing for football at his agent's complex for a couple of months.

The Boone injury:

The Boone injury definitely throws a monkey wrench into things, it may open the door for the Yankees to want Henson to stay in the minor league system. At that point, Henson would pretty much have no option but to play baseball or walk away from 12 million. However, assuming the Yanks have given up on Henson, the Boone injury is a non-issue. Remember, Henson wasn't only hitting like crap, he had tons of fielding errors as well.

Basically, if he could make a reasonable settlement with the Yankees, then get signed+traded by Houston, I don't think he'd be giving up all that much money (maybe 4-5 million total?) and would be putting himself in whatever football situation he wanted. I can't tell for sure how much money he has to gain/lose by re-entereing the draft, rather than signing with Houston.

[rkmsuf]

But he's already stated that's he's going to walk away from that. His agent is trying to finalize an agreement to pay back part of his bonus so he can sign with the Texans, which appears to the route he wants to take.

I think the smart thing to do would be for him to sign a 3 year deal with the Texans and request a trade to either K.C. or Green Bay. Either way he should have enough starts by the time the contract is up to be able to cash in with a big contract....if he performs.

It's a big poker game though. The Texans are very limited in what they can pay. If he is the third qb on the board as speculated then he may make out better but give up choice of team. Tough call...

I'm not a Henson guy at all. He's nothing but a sixth round talent to me...he could be anything and teams aren't going to give up much for what they could draft this year...

[cthomer5000]

How much money could Henson get if he goes the trade route? It would still be based on last year's rookie cap, correct? He could always take a very cap friendly deal tho and immediately renegotiate I suppose. Very interesting situation.
that's my take on it. I would think he could sign a 1 year contract at minimum salary, then immediatly re-negotiate with the new team.

Then, I assumed he'd probably be getting a new contract on par with a 1st/2nd rounder. Probably a couple million in bonus with near league-minimum salary.

[rkmsuf]

that's my take on it. I would think he could sign a 1 year contract at minimum salary, then immediatly re-negotiate with the new team.

Then, I assumed he'd probably be getting a new contract on par with a 1st/2nd rounder. Probably a couple million in bonus with near league-minimum salary.

No way would I pay that guy 1st or 2nd round money...

[The_herd]

I didn't get to watch enough of Henson while he was at Michigan, unfortunately, so I'm not sure where to rate him. I can say that, from what I did see, he seemed a bit too mechanical, although he had excellent arm strength and above average accuracy. I still wouldn't rate him better than either of the top 2 QB's this year, and probably behind Rivers as well. The guy definately has a difficult decision ahead of him.

[cthomer5000]

It's a big poker game though. The Texans are very limited in what they can pay. If he is the third qb on the board as speculated then he may make out better but give up choice of team. Tough call...

I'm not a Henson guy at all. He's nothing but a sixth round talent to me...he could be anything and teams aren't going to give up much for what they could draft this year...
The Texans don't want to keep him, they want to trade him. Whatever contract he signs will likely be signed to be as cap friendly as humanly possible, in order to facilitate the trade.

While he may be thought of as the 3rd best QB (behind Manning and Roethlisberger), I don't think he will be the 3rd QB drafted if he enters the draft. I think he would go 5th after Rivers and Losman. That means he probably won't go until the end of the 2nd round.

I'm not a Henson guy either, I just find this situation very interesting - as it only comes along once in a blue moon.

It seems like the pros of acquiring him would be:
will come cheaper than a QB of similar caliber
can be signed to a contract outside the constraints of the rookie salary pool
don't have to risk another team selecting him in the draft


the cons?

should be rusty. will probably take 1 season longer than the average rookie to be ready to start. you might be talking about year 3 before he really could be ready to play.
you may be able to acquire him cheaper in the draft (although that's a gamble).



Personally, if I were running a team I'd only trade for him if I thought the deal was incredibly advantageous. Otherwise, it just feels too risky.

[The_herd]

that's my take on it. I would think he could sign a 1 year contract at minimum salary, then immediatly re-negotiate with the new team.



Any team that does that has to be one of the stupidest in the league. They are basically letting a guy who hasn't played football at all in a couple years come in and dictate things. Dallas made a similar mistake with Hutchinson, I don't see another team doing the same. What makes this situation worse though is the fact that a team would be knowingly trading for a rookie with a 1 year deal and be put in a situation where they must renegotiate the deal or stand the chance of losing the guy to free agency and having nothing to show.

[General Mike]

I didn't get to watch enough of Henson while he was at Michigan, unfortunately, so I'm not sure where to rate him. I can say that, from what I did see, he seemed a bit too mechanical, although he had excellent arm strength and above average accuracy. I still wouldn't rate him better than either of the top 2 QB's this year, and probably behind Rivers as well. The guy definately has a difficult decision ahead of him.

If I was ranking the QBs in the draft this year and included Henson in the mix, he'd be 4th behind Manning, Roethlisberger and Losman.

[rkmsuf]

Depends what the Texans asking price is I guess. Casserly already sounds sour on the whole thing but they knew what they were getting into when they drafted him. If they ask for anything over where he was taken they are nuts...

If I had to guess, regardless of the truth, you'll start hearing how he looks fantastic.

[The_herd]

If I was ranking the QBs in the draft this year and included Henson in the mix, he'd be 4th behind Manning, Roethlisberger and Losman.

Losman should also be ahead of him too, but I think Rivers was thrown into the 2 round (early 3rd at the latest) based on his workouts and play at the Senior Bowl. I would take Rivers ahead of him based on that, and the fact that you have 4 years of tape to see how Rivers performed.

[cthomer5000]

Any team that does that has to be one of the stupidest in the league. They are basically letting a guy who hasn't played football at all in a couple years come in and dictate things. Dallas made a similar mistake with Hutchinson, I don't see another team doing the same. What makes this situation worse though is the fact that a team would be knowingly trading for a rookie with a 1 year deal and be put in a situation where they must renegotiate the deal or stand the chance of losing the guy to free agency and having nothing to show.

It's not as bad as you make it sound. First, I'm sure his new contract would already be negotiated before a trade went through. And even if it wasn't, he be a restricted free agent. RFA's are basically forced to play for to play for the same team for the mid-range offer they get until after their 4th season.

[The_herd]

RFA's are basically forced to play for to play for the same team for the mid-range offer they get until after their 4th season.

I had thought of that, but I also thought that this would exactly be good business. They would have traded for him with intentions of renegotiating, but instead he ends up a restricted free agent. Not the best way to make negotiations go smoothly when he finally makes it to UFA.

If the league would be kind enough to allow a potential team to negotiate a contract before finalizing the trade, then it wouldn't be so bad. But I just don't think its wise to trade for a guy like Henson when he's working with a 1 year deal and expecting it to be renegotiated.

[cthomer5000]

I had thought of that, but I also thought that this would exactly be good business. They would have traded for him with intentions of renegotiating, but instead he ends up a restricted free agent. Not the best way to make negotiations go smoothly when he finally makes it to UFA.

Heh, that would definitely not be good business. My gut feeling is that this trade won't happen because there are so many moving parts involved:

the Yankees buying-out or not buying-out the contract
The Yankess wanting or not wanting Henson in their farm system
Henson entering or not re-entering the draft
The Texans finding a suitor
The Texans just being able to sign him
negotiating the conract with the "new" team

I don't think he and his agent are going to just want to jump into this thing blindly. I think the Texans only hope is the Yankees buying out the contract between now and april. Otherwise, Henson could just re-enter the draft while still simultaneiously negotiating with the Yankees.

It seems like the Texans only have something to offer him if he is already out of the Yankees deal.

[albionmoonlight]

I know that free mock drafts on the internet give you what you pay for--but it still annoys me when I see one that has the Saints (the one team I follow closely) picking someone they obviously don't need (in this case, a DE even though the two best players on our defense are our young bookend DEs). It shows me that the guys who put up the mock draft have no idea about most of the teams in the league. Why bother putting one up if you are not even going to look at team rosters when deciding who they should pick.

[General Mike]

Peter King from SI was on WFAN with Mike and the Mad Dog just now and they were discussing the Henson situation. The Yankees can't stand Henson and want to unload the deal and will buy him out. Casserly supposedly wants a high 2005 draft pick in exchange for Henson.

[rkmsuf]

Peter King from SI was on WFAN with Mike and the Mad Dog just now and they were discussing the Henson situation. The Yankees can't stand Henson and want to unload the deal and will buy him out. Casserly supposedly wants a high 2005 draft pick in exchange for Henson.

Dream on Chuck...

[Mo.Raider]

Raiders- I don't believe there is anyway the Raiders will pick OL unless it is after a trade down and much later. Tui is not Al's pick. It was Gruden's pick and what Al described as a "suprise" pick (in other words Al disagreed but gave into his bright young coach). Don't be surprised if Al does indeed select a qb. BUT the more likely scenario is a free agent veteran qb and Fitzgerald if he is available at #2. If not look for some "Wheelin and Dealin" on draft day.

[Logan]

Dream on Chuck...

According to King, KC would be willing to part with a 2005 1st rounder...

[sterlingice]

According to King, KC would be willing to part with a 2005 1st rounder...
What a waste, particularly for a QB who hasn't played in a couple of years and who wasn't the second coming even when he was in college. I've never understood the hype around him.

SI

[rkmsuf]

According to King, KC would be willing to part with a 2005 1st rounder...

If that's true the fans should storm Arrowhead and burn it down and the fans of Houston should erect a modern day pyramid in honor of Casserly...

[Samdari]

What a waste, particularly for a QB who hasn't played in a couple of years and who wasn't the second coming even when he was in college. I've never understood the hype around him.

Well, he was unquestionably the #1 NFL prospect in college when he left.

Regardless of anyone here agreeing with that assessment or not, that's what NFL teams thought of him (certainly he was more highly rated than any of these QBs) and while the layoff will surely hurt him, he will still be thought of as more talented by many than any QB in this draft.

[ice4277]

Take away the fact that he has been out of football for a couple years, and Henson would be just as highly thought of as Manning and Rothlesberger. Its true, I suppose, that Losman could go ahead of him, but I think Henson easily has the better talent.

[General Mike]

"This is how [a team] beats the system," Casserly said, referring to a Henson trade. "How else are you going to get a young quarterback of this caliber? You can say you're going to take him in the draft but there are no guarantees. With a trade, he's yours, and you don't have to worry about somebody jumping ahead of you and grabbing him."

[rkmsuf]

"This is how [a team] beats the system," Casserly said, referring to a Henson trade. "How else are you going to get a young quarterback of this caliber? You can say you're going to take him in the draft but there are no guarantees. With a trade, he's yours, and you don't have to worry about somebody jumping ahead of you and grabbing him."

His ass is literally blowing smoke...

[albionmoonlight]

How old is Henson?

[General Mike]

How old is Henson?
He'll be 24 in 2 weeks.

[albionmoonlight]

Thanks.

[cthomer5000]

So the Henson thing is really heating up now. Seems like his workout will be a nice sideshow before the scouting combine.

The Yankees and him have agreed to just part ways without a buyout, and Henson has a workout for the entire league (conducted by Houston) on February 12th. I'm sure we'll immediately hear the 5-8 teams that are interested after that.

My guess is that he ends up being dealt for a low round 2004 pick, and a 2005 2nd rounder.

[cthomer5000]

dola, and the Texans (Charlie Casserly specifically) are going to end up looking really good at the end of this whole process. Whatever they get out of this is going to be worth significantly more than the 6th rounder they gave up.

[stevew]

its about time Texans look good, especially after that Boselli bomb.

[cthomer5000]

its about time Texans look good, especially after that Boselli bomb.

Yeah, that really blew up in their face. So much wasted money.

Otherwise, the expansion draft was an excellent building block. I think 5 or 6 defensive starters came out of that. Lucky bastards.

I think they'll be making a very legit run at the playoffs next year. They should have a nice 1-2 punch at running back, a good enough offensive line, and 3 pretty good receivers, with Andre Johnson potentially breaking out as really top-notch.

If the defense can maintain it's middle of the pack status, the only obstacle will be their very tough division.

[Samdari]

its about time Texans look good, especially after that Boselli bomb.

And with fourth round pick Domanick Davis being the best rookie RB last year, spending a #2 on "played four games lifetime at RB" Tony Hollings is not looking like the shrewdest move.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I will be curious to see if Tuna makes noise for the running. If the Cowboys aren't interested that will mean they might be going for Brunell. If they are that means to me Bill doesn't see him as a huge project or less of one than Q-kid or Hutch.

I think keeping an eye on Dallas will be a good barometer of the assessment of Henson.

[KevinNU7]

With the first pick in the 2004 NFL draft the New England Patriots select, Roosevelt Colvin ;)

[rkmsuf]

With the first pick in the 2004 NFL draft the New England Patriots select, Roosevelt Colvin ;)

Hopefully he comes back from a very serious injury. There is no guarantee he is nearly the same player though...

[KevinNU7]

Which is why he is just a draft pick now :)

[cthomer5000]

And with fourth round pick Domanick Davis being the best rookie RB last year, spending a #2 on "played four games lifetime at RB" Tony Hollings is not looking like the shrewdest move.


Yeah, Hollings showed zero this year, and what they gave away ended up being a very high 2nd round pick. After a knee injury and all, this should be the year where he either shows he was worth it ... or shows he wasn't. Still, they can probably re-sign Mack for cheap and lucked out with the Davis breakout. Not a bad 1-2-3.

[rkmsuf]

Which is why he is just a draft pick now :)

That and...

2 1st rd
2 2nd rd
1 3rd rd
2 4th rd...

[Samdari]

Yeah, Hollings showed zero this year, and what they gave away ended up being a very high 2nd round pick. After a knee injury and all, this should be the year where he either shows he was worth it ... or shows he wasn't. Still, they can probably re-sign Mack for cheap and lucked out with the Davis breakout. Not a bad 1-2-3.

I think they knew Hollings was a project - he has hardly played RB at all - but still, I think they'd rather have the #1 pick in the second round right now than Hollings, but you do need a backup, and I frankly don't think they have any interest in keeping Mack. Wells is a good 3rd back, and Mack is not likely to accept a #3 role happily, having gone to Houston primarily to have a chance to start.

[cthomer5000]

I think they knew Hollings was a project - he has hardly played RB at all - but still, I think they'd rather have the #1 pick in the second round right now than Hollings, but you do need a backup, and I frankly don't think they have any interest in keeping Mack. Wells is a good 3rd back, and Mack is not likely to accept a #3 role happily, having gone to Houston primarily to have a chance to start.

Mack could probably head over to Dallas if he wants *another* chance to start. He seems like the sort of back Parcells would love having amongst his stable. I'm pretty confident Parcells is going to be increidbly proactive about fixing the 'Boys RB situation. I'd expect to see 2-3 new backs heavily in the mix. If the Cowboys could do as well as the Panthers did in terms of brining in a QB and RB (Delhomme and Davis) I think they can go deep into the playoffs next year.

[rkmsuf]

Mack could probably head over to Dallas if he wants *another* chance to start. He seems like the sort of back Parcells would love having amongst his stable. I'm pretty confident Parcells is going to be increidbly proactive about fixing the 'Boys RB situation. I'd expect to see 2-3 new backs heavily in the mix. If the Cowboys could do as well as the Panthers did in terms of brining in a QB and RB (Delhomme and Davis) I think they can go deep into the playoffs next year.

Mack is not the answer for Dallas or anybody. He's just like Hambrick and more injury prone to boot.

Tough call for Parcells as far as QB and maybe it depends on the opinion of his defense. He's not there for a long run...probably not even 5 years. It would be tempting to acquire a veteran(Brunell?) and make a real run in the next year or two. Drafting a QB really lengthens the process...

[KevinNU7]

That and...

2 1st rd
2 2nd rd
1 3rd rd
2 4th rd...

Should be pretty amazing. If there was a great running back out there I'd be tempted to trade down but I think they'll go WR/MLB in round 1

[damnMikeBrown]

I've liked Casserly ever since I first learned of him. He'd stockpiled two or three first round picks in WAS before mini-Steinbrenner showed up & fired him. I like any GM who isn't afraid to wheel & deal. Where have you gone Trader Jack?

[cthomer5000]

The Pats have let Antwain Smith become a free agent... I would say this certainly increases the odds of them going RB in the first or second round.

I think taking a back early and bringing back Smith at a cheap salary would be the best move for them.

[Samdari]

I think the Pats will trade both 1's to Detroit for their 6 pick. They take Steven Jackson, RB, Oregon St.

I don't think they'll end up bringing Smith back after today.

[rkmsuf]

I think the Pats will trade both 1's to Detroit for their 6 pick. They take Steven Jackson, RB, Oregon St.



That is your work of fiction for the day. Now back to regular programming...

[cthomer5000]

I think the Pats trading up that far makes little sense. So far, no RB has really set himself apart from the rest of the pack. Therefore it makes no real sense to take one at #6. If anything, they become more likely to wait until round 2 to grab one.

I don't think Smith has many other options. I think he'll end up coming back late in the summer for cheap.

[rkmsuf]

Jackson is quickly becoming that guy. So much so that there is already no chance he will be there with their first pick at #21. The feeling is that they have to get ahead of Tampa (#8) to get him.

False, false, false...people, pay attention to the modus operandi of NE...highly unlikely they go up unless someone drops into the teens that they love. Even in that scenario they'd wouldn't be loving a back...

[rkmsuf]

dola, guess you deleted it...

[Samdari]

I think the Pats trading up that far makes little sense. So far, no RB has really set himself apart from the rest of the pack. Therefore it makes no real sense to take one at #6. If anything, they become more likely to wait until round 2 to grab one.

I don't think Smith has many other options. I think he'll end up coming back late in the summer for cheap.

Maybe no 1 RB has set himself apart, but the top 2 are light years ahead of those behind them. Neither will be available by pick 21. I you have your heart set on one particular running back, you'd probably be smart to get ahead of Pittsburgh at #11. Detroit will probably be the most willing trade partner, plus they are a candidate to take an RB themselves.

[Samdari]

dola, guess you deleted it...

Yeah, got the draft order from a mock draft where there had been trades. Tampa is not actually at #8.

[rkmsuf]

who cares. no way they pay top 15 money for a back...

[Noble_Platypus]

I agree. I think they sit tight and take the best player available with the 2 first round picks. As far as trading up for a RB, they just won the Super Bowl with a guy they didnt think enough of to pick up his option, so I dont think they will look at RB as a high enough priority to trade up and reach on a guy

[cthomer5000]

ESPN just casually mentioned that San Diego is now in the mix for Mark Brunell. This makes a fair amount of sense to me (well, from the perspective of Marty wanting to keep his job).

I grow more convinced by the day that San Diego will not select a QB in the first round. IMHO, the only question is whether they stay there and take Fitzgerlad, or whether they trade down.

[rkmsuf]

ESPN just casually mentioned that San Diego is now in the mix for Mark Brunell. This makes a fair amount of sense to me (well, from the perspective of Marty wanting to keep his job).

I grow more convinced by the day that San Diego will not select a QB in the first round. IMHO, the only question is whether they stay there and take Fitzgerlad, or whether they trade down.

That's an awful lot of dough potentially tied up in two receivers. If the right offer is there they probably trade down in a second...

[The_herd]

Mel Kiper posted his latest mock draft, as the draft begins to take shape after the combine and Miami's pro day.

He has a couple of surprises, most notably Tommie Harris going #5 to Washington, although he did say they were likely to attempt to trade down. Mike Williams slides down to Atlanta at #8. I find this unlikely since I don't think Arizona will take a QB and instead will take Williams. The Bears draft Vince Wilfork after his great workout, but its unlikely considering the bears are trying to move to an attacking 1-gap scheme and 330lb DTs don't fit in that system, although I could see Tommie Harris going here, if he falls this far. Reggie Williams tumbles down to SF at #16 in order to replace TO. Lee Evans jumps into the 1st round after his workout at the combine and goes to Philly at #28. Possibly the biggest surpise to me was he had Kevin Jones falling out of the first round altogether.

Some interesting moves. It will be interesting to see if players with great workouts, such as Wilfork and Lee Evans, remain as high has he has them and how much the draft changes with trades.

[cthomer5000]

I also think Mike Williams will go very high, although I'm not so certain Arizona is going to pass on a QB. It would be a pretty ballsy move for an organization that hasn't had a good QB since it's been in Arizona. If they do like McCown, maybe they're hoping the top 2 Qb's are gone, making their decision for them. They can always hope that Losman or Rivers plummet into the 2nd round. I think 1 QB and 1 RB will drop farther than expected... it seems to happen every year.

[The_herd]

Rumor has it Denny Green wants to see what McCown has before drafting a QB that high. If Fitzgerald were to fall to #3 then I think its pretty much a given that he goes reciever considering Green absolutely loves the kid and has ties to his Dad. The thing that doesn't make sense there is Arizona would have spent 2 first round and 1 second round pick on recievers in 2 years, but then again, guys like Fitz and Williams aren't available every year.

[Samdari]

Mort's ongoing chat had the following thoughts about the draft:

Oakland is not a lock to take Fitzgerald. They might take Gallery.

leaving

Arizona to take Fitzgerald at 3.

and also proposes that

Some teams actually have Roy Williams as the #1 WR in the draft.

For all those that told me my "Pats trade to #1's to trade up for a RB" scenario was insane, please see

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=22474

[rkmsuf]

I think the Pats will trade both 1's to Detroit for their 6 pick. They take Steven Jackson, RB, Oregon St.

I don't think they'll end up bringing Smith back after today.

Now don't I feel a bit silly right about now...whoops!!!

I bow in honor of your powers...

[General Mike]

Mort's ongoing chat had the following thoughts about the draft:

Oakland is not a lock to take Fitzgerald. They might take Gallery.



They Better not. :mad: :mad:

[AgPete]

Yeah, got the draft order from a mock draft where there had been trades. Tampa is not actually at #8.

Except for the top picks, mock drafts are pretty useless but I hate when mock drafts try to predict trades. It makes what is already a useless prediction even more absurd.

[cthomer5000]

Except for the top picks, mock drafts are pretty useless but I hate when mock drafts try to predict trades. It makes what is already a useless prediction even more absurd.
Is it any worse than not predicting trades when there undoubtedly will be some?

[AgPete]

Is it any worse than not predicting trades when there undoubtedly will be some?

Well I guess if you look at it that way..... :p

I don't mind a minor realistic trade such as a team with numerous 1st round picks maybe moving up but I laugh at those mock drafts that have about 5 fictional trades in the first round. Some of the trades don't even make sense.

[Razzlam]

So the Raiders finally get a shot at a decent player, after, how many years now? The problem seems to be, they have holes all over the place because year after year they keep getting old players. So now, in the next 2 years or so, almost 75% of the starters are going to retire. Manning will for sure go to San Diego, which is a crime because they seem to ruin every single high pick they get(Cincy?), the Raiders desperatly need a franchise QB, but once again, they will pick to win now and go with Fitzgerald. Problem is, the Raiders are done and finished for the near future, this team cannnot win anymore. Is it just me, or do the Raiders consistently make bad roster decisions? But once again, I will be a fan, and watch the carnage, and say, "mabe next year".

[cthomer5000]

So the Raiders finally get a shot at a decent player, after, how many years now? The problem seems to be, they have holes all over the place because year after year they keep getting old players. So now, in the next 2 years or so, almost 75% of the starters are going to retire. Manning will for sure go to San Diego, which is a crime because they seem to ruin every single high pick they get(Cincy?), the Raiders desperatly need a franchise QB, but once again, they will pick to win now and go with Fitzgerald. Problem is, the Raiders are done and finished for the near future, this team cannnot win anymore. Is it just me, or do the Raiders consistently make bad roster decisions? But once again, I will be a fan, and watch the carnage, and say, "mabe next year".
I think the Raiders have a very good chance to bounce right back. The big question marks just seem to be QB, the O-line, and maybe the D-line. They seem to have up-and-coming youngsters at every other position.

[rkmsuf]

Raiders just signed Ted Washington. 4 years 14 million...

[cthomer5000]

Raiders just signed Ted Washington. 4 years 14 million...
maybe they don't learn. 4 million in bonus and 8 mill over the first 2 years for a 36 year old DT? Seems a bit risky, like everything Al Davis does.

[rkmsuf]

Not only that but according to the report he's going to platoon with Parella...

[Samdari]

They Better not. :mad: :mad:

I think it would be a good pick. Gallery is quickly becoming the highest rated player in the draft, he plays a key position, and a need one for the Raiders. Gallery at #1 and Rashaun Woods in the early second is a sick draft.

[Razzlam]

year after year they keep getting old players.
4 million in bonus and 8 mill over the first 2 years for a 36 year old DT?
Darn, someone beat me to it, this is typical Raiders style, pay big, and pay now for the old guy who once was, sigh, will it ever end? And one mock draft has the Raiders taking an offensive linemen, I would firebomb Al Davis's office if he did that and left Manning or Fitz on the board

[iceberg414]

Check out www.nfldraftblitz.com. A great source for draft info with lots of various other information.

yep

[JasonC23]

I think the Raiders have a very good chance to bounce right back. The big question marks just seem to be QB, the O-line, and maybe the D-line. They seem to have up-and-coming youngsters at every other position.
So, other than both lines and QB, they're set? I think you're basically saying they're screwed. :p

[cthomer5000]

So, other than both lines and QB, they're set? I think you're basically saying they're screwed. :p
Well, the QB situation isn't necessarily bad, it's just unsettled. Anything can come out of it really. I can say I have no knowledge of their o-line situation, and I'm also not that familiar with the D-line, although the Ted Washington signing probably improved it.

Many more teams (like my Jets) have no answers at almost every position. For instance, I would say the Jets are only solid at QB, RB, and D-line (where the personnel is there, but the performance has not been). That leaves tons of holes compared to the Raiders.

[Razzlam]

Well, lets see how tough the Jets have had it,
Since 1993 the Jets have had a total of 5 top 10 picks including:
4 Jones, Marvin
9 Brady, Kyle
1 Johnson, Keyshawn
8 Farrior, James
4 Dewayne Robertson
notice that 3 of those picks were top 5, and in the years they did not recieve a top 10 pick, they drafted ordinardy players like:
12 Glenn, Aaron
12 Ellis, Shaun
16 Moss, Santana, sorry, but that seems to be a fairley solid line-up in my opinion. Now lets take a look at the Raiders drafts:
Since 93' the Raiders have had 3 top 10 picks
9 Dudley, Rickey (is he still playing?)
2 Russell, Darrell (sigh, what could have been!!)
4 Woodson, Charles (YES, we have a winner!)
from that fairley modest research, it seems the Jets, at least on paper, appear to have had more then their fair share of solid, if not excellent position players. so now this quote That leaves tons of holes compared to the Raiders doesn't seem to hold much water.

[rkmsuf]

I don't get it...the point here is what?

[Razzlam]

I don't get it...the point here is what?

Ummm, its a discussion board on football, whats so confusing?

[rkmsuf]

Ummm, its a discussion board on football, whats so confusing?

oh I see now...thanks.

[cthomer5000]

Well, lets see how tough the Jets have had it,
Since 1993 the Jets have had a total of 5 top 10 picks including:
4 Jones, Marvin
9 Brady, Kyle
1 Johnson, Keyshawn
8 Farrior, James
4 Dewayne Robertson
notice that 3 of those picks were top 5, and in the years they did not recieve a top 10 pick, they drafted ordinardy players like:
12 Glenn, Aaron
12 Ellis, Shaun
16 Moss, Santana, sorry, but that seems to be a fairley solid line-up in my opinion. Now lets take a look at the Raiders drafts:
Since 93' the Raiders have had 3 top 10 picks
9 Dudley, Rickey (is he still playing?)
2 Russell, Darrell (sigh, what could have been!!)
4 Woodson, Charles (YES, we have a winner!)
from that fairley modest research, it seems the Jets, at least on paper, appear to have had more then their fair share of solid, if not excellent position players. so now this quote doesn't seem to hold much water.
I wasn't trying to compare their draft histories, just the current status of the teams. The Jets are only stable at QB, RB, and D-line. The rest of the roster needs *serious* revamping at the other positions.

My point was that Oakland will likely bounce back much sooner than most expect, as they already have solid young talent at virtually every position on the field.

[Samdari]

I wasn't trying to compare their draft histories, just the current status of the teams. The Jets are only stable at QB, RB, and D-line. The rest of the roster needs *serious* revamping at the other positions.

My point was that Oakland will likely bounce back much sooner than most expect, as they already have solid young talent at virtually every position on the field.

Dude, its March. This is the only time of year we Jet fans get to feel good about our team. Get with the program. We are already beginning the upgrade of speed at LB. Cowart is slow for the outside, but can play MLB. Hobson is a keeper at SLB, and Abraham/#12 pick at the WLB, there is already a huge upgrade. Getting Winfield plus having Abraham for the entire season will upgrade the CB position. OK, I don't know about safety, but if instead of a 'draw a seat number from the nosebleeds to move up to the 50 YL' promotion they ran a 'draw a seat number to play SS' promotion that would be an upgrade over Garnes. Besides, McGraw has done some things to be optimistic about and he missed 15 games last year. Its day 2 of FA and the defense has improved 10-fold.

They need their top 3 picks to be LB, WR and OG (and all three to work out - play along) and they are set! Top of the division, baby.

[cthomer5000]

Samdari, so by adding no one, the defense is suddenly much better than it was (fucking atrocious) last season?

[judicial clerk]

Don't firebomb old lady Al if they pick up Gallery. he is supposed to be the real deal and they need a tackle with Kennedy's retirement. I would like to see them pick up gallery at no. 2, pick up a quality receiver in the second round (lots of depth their in this draft) and bring in Drew Henson (if he has legitimate potential). If Henson is not a possibility, then pick up Rothlisberger[sp?] in the first round. I think Manning is going No. 1 so I do not consider him an option.

By the way, I am not positive that Charles Woodson is exactly a winner pick. I feel that he is constantly gets burned by the top revceivers in the league. i think he should be playing

[cthomer5000]

Ok. With Dennis Green professing all the faith in Josh McCown, and them now signing Shaun King... I'm starting to believe they won't draft Roethlisberger/Manning.

[The_herd]

Ok. With Dennis Green professing all the faith in Josh McCown, and them now signing Shaun King... I'm starting to believe they won't draft Roethlisberger/Manning.

:cool:

[Ryche]

Ok. With Dennis Green professing all the faith in Josh McCown, and them now signing Shaun King... I'm starting to believe they won't draft Roethlisberger/Manning.
Mark my words, there is no way Green drafts Roethlisberger or Manning.

[cthomer5000]

Mark my words, there is no way Green drafts Roethlisberger or Manning.
uhh... that's why I said I was now starting to believe.

[Samdari]

Samdari, so by adding no one, the defense is suddenly much better than it was (fucking atrocious) last season?

Given Cowart's speed and instincts, he is a very good ILB, but a below average OLB. Without adding anyone, they have gotten better at two starting LB positions so far this offseason, yes. I was also counting Winfield over Beasley at one CB, bumping Abraham to the #2 CB spot. Looks like I counted that a bit too soon.

They have now added Eric Barton for the other LB spot and Barrett at CB, and while neither was the best player available at their position, I think second tier free agents, at second tier prices, make far more sense. Having picked up Barton and McCareins allows them to select the best football player available at 12, rather than needing to reach to get a certain position. Have they become loaded with talent? No, but I think they have made some positive moves.

[Ryche]

uhh... that's why I said I was now starting to believe.
I know, just seconding your opinion :)

[The_herd]

I'm starting to see a couple places saying that Arizona may try to trade up to #1 to grab Fitzgerald to make Denny happy, with the Raiders then taking Gallery or Manning. Anyone else noticing that with the amount of talent in this draft, just about everyone is considering moving down?

[Sharpieman]

www.nfldraftcountdown.com
I found this great site somehow, Scott updates his site regularly and its great to get info on all the players going to be drafted. I hope that somehow Reggie Williams drops to the 16th pick and the Niners get him. I wouldn't mind them picking up Chris Gamble though. However, I doubt they will get either of these players.

[cthomer5000]

I found this to be a pretty good time to get an ESPN insider account. There's a 30 day trial - you just have to call up and cancel before the 30 days are up in order to avoid being charged. It's nice to have all the detail on the players in the draft, the Mel Kiper stuff, and plenty of other stuff.

It was all inspired by the fact the Rutgers DE Raheem Orr is now featured on Mel's "late-round bargains" list. :)

[cthomer5000]

Oh, and I can't wait for the Maurice Clarett workout on April 6th. My gut feeling is that he's going to look like crap.

[The_herd]

I found this to be a pretty good time to get an ESPN insider account. There's a 30 day trial - you just have to call up and cancel before the 30 days are up in order to avoid being charged. It's nice to have all the detail on the players in the draft, the Mel Kiper stuff, and plenty of other stuff.

It was all inspired by the fact the Rutgers DE Raheem Orr is now featured on Mel's "late-round bargains" list. :)

I signed up in January for a 1 year subscription. Its not too bad, especially with a 1 year subscription to ESPN the magazine thrown in. Kipers stuff really makes it worthwhile though, I'm sure the baseball stuff will be great once the season gets going as well. The NBA coverage is piss poor, but overall I like it so far.

[General Mike]

Don't firebomb old lady Al if they pick up Gallery.

If the Raiders take Robert Gallery, someone will definitely die. ;)

[cthomer5000]

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Wednesday, April 7, 2004
Manning a possible target for New York

<HR width="100%" noShade SIZE=1>Associated Press

SAN DIEGO -- The [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyg"]New York Giants (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1777846&type=story#), known to covet Mississippi quarterback Eli Manning, have spoken with the San Diego Chargers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=sdg) about obtaining the first pick in the NFL draft on April 24.


Chargers general manager A.J. Smith confirmed he got a call from Giants GM Ernie Accorsi on Tuesday.


"They would like to move from four to one," Smith said on Wednesday.


Smith wouldn't discuss specifics.


"Anything we discuss is football business between the two of us," Smith said.


San Diego was 4-12 last year, the same record as Oakland (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak), Arizona (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=ari) and the Giants. But the Chargers got the No. 1 draft pick based on strength of schedule.


The Chargers worked out Manning and the other two highly regarded quarterbacks in the draft, Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers.


But trading down and acquiring additional picks would allow San Diego to address its many other needs. The Chargers don't have a left tackle or a standout wide receiver or defensive end.


The Chargers also had the No. 1 pick four years ago and traded it to Atlanta (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=atl) the day before the draft. Atlanta got Michael Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5448), while San Diego took LaDainian Tomlinson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5452) at No. 5. The Chargers also got receiver-returner Tim Dwight (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4343) and two other picks.


Also Wednesday, the University of Pittsburgh's Larry Fitzgerald, one of the top receivers in the draft, visited the Chargers.


"This was kind of like a recruiting visit today," said Fitzgerald, who met with coach Marty Schottenheimer and receivers coach James Lofton. "It's fun. I got to out and have lunch with Coach Lofton, somebody I looked up to as a child."

[cthomer5000]

I think this would be a pretty good move for San Diego. They could get some sort of extra pick, then grad Roethlisberger, Gallery, or a WR at #4.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Hey thanks. I am not an insider subscriber, but saw the tag line and was curious. Keep up the good work. I have noticed this was an AP article. Which gets me thinking that next time, I may just run a google search on the topic and get the article for free.

[cthomer5000]

Hey thanks. I am not an insider subscriber, but saw the tag line and was curious. Keep up the good work. I have noticed this was an AP article. Which gets me thinking that next time, I may just run a google search on the topic and get the article for free.
I didn't even realize it was an insider article.... I'm on a 30 day trial, and will very likely quit on day 29. I timed my signup for maximum draft coverage. :)

[albionmoonlight]

Bump for the week before the draft.

Any more rumors out there?

[Samdari]

Bump for the week before the draft.

Any more rumors out there?

All I have heard today is that SD is still desperately trying to trade the top pick, but trying to convince everyone that they would be perfectly happy making that pick, thus hoping to convince someone to overpay. So far it would appear nobody has bitten.

[WSUCougar]

Just heard the tail end of a sports radio show here in STL that had a "live" mock draft with sports radio guys in each of the cities for the top 10 picks. It was a little too tidy (although many apparently admitted that there will be lots of unpredictable moving and shaking going on), but went something like:

Manning (Chargers)
Fitzgerald (Raiders)
Rothlisberger (Cards)
Gallery (Giants)
Winslow (Skins)
Roy Williams (Lions)
Taylor (Browns)
Hall (Falcons)
Udeze (Jags)
CB Smith (Texans)

There was much talk about the #10 slot, since everyone figures the Steelers are locked on Rivers at that pick and thus #10 will be the place to jump them. Also, anyone wanting the Miami LBs may be moving there.

Also, the fact that Mike Williams (USC WR) and RB Steve Jackson dropped.

More discussion fodder, at least.

[rkmsuf]

The only pick I've heard that is a lock is Arizona taking Fitzgerald if there. That along with Pitt and Rivers.

[Samdari]

Also, the fact that Mike Williams (USC WR) and RB Steve Jackson dropped.

Everyone appears to be saying Williams is dropping, but most seem to be saying the opposite about Jackson.

rkmsuf - you think Pitt would take Rivers ahead of Roethlesberger if he's there at 11?

[rkmsuf]

If Jackson had run a quick 40 he'd be a lock for top 5-8. The time is clouding the issue.

[rkmsuf]

Everyone appears to be saying Williams is dropping, but most seem to be saying the opposite about Jackson.

rkmsuf - you think Pitt would take Rivers ahead of Roethlesberger if he's there at 11?

Perhaps but sliding that far is a stretch. Pit has done a good job in throwing one name out there that seems plausible and basically that's it. We haven't heard a peep (maybe Steeler fans have) about any other players from them.

[Samdari]

If Jackson had run a quick 40 he'd be a lock for top 5-8. The time is clouding the issue.

The whole "is Jackson going up or down" issue probably depends on the perspective of where you thought he started. The first few mock drafts I saw had him going 21 to the Pats. I think there is no chance he will be there, but it also appears unlikely he will go #6 - which some have predicted.

If you thought he was going #6 - he's definitely dropping. If you thought he was #21, he's on the rise.

His 40 time is not bad however. He is listed most places at 4.5. This is considered "good" RB speed for the NFL. It's not blistering, but its not questionable speed.

[WSUCougar]

The key thing that I have been hearing about Jackson, regardless of actual draft slot, is that he is clearly the #1 running back. Depending of course upon which teams really feel the need, that increases his value.

[rkmsuf]

It's not LT speed either which is why he went way high.

By all accounts, besides the second gear, Jackson has all the tools.

[Sharpieman]

From local newspapers and rumors circling around radio. The SF 49ers could be trading their first round draft pick (#16) to the Eagles for their LG John Welbourn and possibly their first rounder. That would mean, as speculated, the Terry Donahue would chose WR Rashuan Woods, who Terry is very very high on.

[cthomer5000]

I would say in general, Jackson is rising. He's gone from being grouped in the top backs to being the clear-cut #1. I've still never seen him play - but I get the impression he's being overrated due to a somewhat weak RB crop.