Hall of Fame Class of 2004 [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

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Darkiller

01-30-2004, 03:19 AM

So ?

Who do you think will make the Hall of Fame this year.
I say John Elway and Barry Sanders are shoes-in.
It's anyone's guess for the other(s) who might be inducted along with them this year.
thoughts ? comments ?

fantastic flying froggies

01-30-2004, 04:43 AM

I think Monk should get in, maybe not this year again but eventually.

Dent was pretty impressive at DE, as was Carson at LB, but I'm not sure how they compare to the rest of their class.

For info on the 15 finalists, here's the official NFL link :
http://www.profootballhof.com/index.cfm?section=enshrinement&cont_id=224042

Darkiller

01-30-2004, 05:15 AM

Here's my breakdown of who I think are the Top7 candidates out of the 15 finalists for this year's Hall of Fame class :

1- The "obvious" selections:
John Elway
Barry Sanders

2- the "Very strong" candidates for induction
Gary Zimmerman (Gary Zimmerman has a real shot this year, he certainly deserves it, has all the credentials you would expect.)
Harry Carson

3- the "Very possible" selections for this year
Art Monk
George Young
Richard Dent

Senator

01-30-2004, 06:22 AM

Cliff Harris is on the NFL All Century Team, I think he should be in the NFL Hall of Fame. And Rayfield Wright was so good it was scary.

And if Lynn Swann is in the Hall of Fame, Monk should get in twice.

fantastic flying froggies

01-30-2004, 06:26 AM

And if Lynn Swann is in the Hall of Fame, Monk should get in twice.I remember playing Strat-o-matic football with the mid-80s playing cards (can't remember the exact year, was probably around 83 or 84) and throwing to Monk was almost always an automatic completion...

edit : just checked his stats, and that would have been 1984, his best year with 106 receptions for 1372 yards... not too shabby methinks... (and I hated the Redskins back then... well, still do, really...)

Philliesfan980

01-30-2004, 06:29 AM

Am I the only one here who thinks Dent was a little overrated?

cthomer5000

01-30-2004, 06:34 AM

Am I the only one here who thinks Dent was a little overrated?

Am I the only one who thinks Monk was extremely overrated?

oykib

01-30-2004, 06:38 AM

Am I the only one here who thinks Dent was a little overrated?

Super Bowl MVPs go a long way. Unlike in baseball, big-game performances in the NFL are what make or break a player. That's why Swann's in the Hall and Stallworth ain't.

The game doesn't really lend itself to easy statistical analysis of individual players. That demands that we make subjective evalutaions and those big-stage performances make up a lot of what we think about many players.

fantastic flying froggies

01-30-2004, 06:42 AM

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 width=175></TD><TD class=alt2>Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by cthomer500</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Am I the only one who thinks Monk was extremely overrated?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Well, he is "only" the 5th receiver in NFL history in terms of pass receptions...

Darkiller

01-30-2004, 07:12 AM

That's why Swann's in the Hall and Stallworth ain't.

John Stallworth is in the Hall of Fame.

Ksyrup

01-30-2004, 07:17 AM

As opposed to MLB, the NFL usually takes, it seems to me, at least 5-7 people every year. If this was MLB, only Elway and Sanders would get in. Since it's the NFL, I bet nearly everyone mentioned above will get in.

oykib

01-30-2004, 07:26 AM

John Stallworth is in the Hall of Fame.

Sorry, It's been a while since I've been home. I should've said, that's why Swann got in first.

Darkiller

01-30-2004, 07:48 AM

eh eh ;)

sachmo71

01-30-2004, 08:37 AM

Obviously the anti-cowboy bias will continue, but...

Bob Hayes- For 11-year career, Hayes accumulated 7,414 yards and 71 touchdowns

Rayfield Wright- Known as "Big Cat," earned first- or second-team All-NFL honors six consecutive times (1971-76). . .Selected to play in Pro Bowl following each of those seasons

I'm not going to get into this too deeply, but there are lesser mortals in the hall as we speak.

Glengoyne

01-30-2004, 12:28 PM

I'm not going to get into this too deeply, but there are lesser mortals in the hall as we speak.
God lets hope they don't use that as the standard for admission.

cthomer5000

01-30-2004, 12:41 PM

Well, he is "only" the 5th receiver in NFL history in terms of pass receptions...
I won't dispute his statistics, but it's pretty hard to point out any amazing seasons, or exaclty at what point he was considered among the truly elite at his position.

My major gripe about the NFL is it's incredibly leniant HOF selection.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 162pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=215 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1280" width=35><COL style="WIDTH: 23pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1097" width=30><COL style="WIDTH: 16pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 768" width=21><COL style="WIDTH: 23pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1097" width=30><COL style="WIDTH: 31pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1499" width=41><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1280" width=35><COL style="WIDTH: 17pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 841" width=23><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="WIDTH: 26pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" width=35 height=17></TD><TD style="WIDTH: 23pt" width=30></TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 16pt" width=21>G</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 23pt" width=30>Rec</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 31pt" width=41>Yards</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 26pt" width=35>YPC</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 17pt" width=23>TD</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1980</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>58</TD><TD align=right x:num>797</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.7</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1981</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>56</TD><TD align=right x:num>894</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>6</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1982</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>9</TD><TD align=right x:num>35</TD><TD align=right x:num>447</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.8</TD><TD align=right x:num>1</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1983</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>12</TD><TD align=right x:num>47</TD><TD align=right x:num>746</TD><TD align=right x:num>15.9</TD><TD align=right x:num>5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1984</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>106</TD><TD align=right x:num>1372</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.9</TD><TD align=right x:num>7</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1985</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>15</TD><TD align=right x:num>91</TD><TD align=right x:num>1226</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.5</TD><TD align=right x:num>2</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1986</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>73</TD><TD align=right x:num>1068</TD><TD align=right x:num>14.6</TD><TD align=right x:num>4</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1987</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>9</TD><TD align=right x:num>38</TD><TD align=right x:num>483</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.7</TD><TD align=right x:num>6</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1988</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>72</TD><TD align=right x:num>946</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.1</TD><TD align=right x:num>5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1989</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>86</TD><TD align=right x:num>1186</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.8</TD><TD align=right x:num>8</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1990</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>68</TD><TD align=right x:num>770</TD><TD align=right x:num>11.3</TD><TD align=right x:num>5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1991</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>71</TD><TD align=right x:num>1049</TD><TD align=right x:num>14.8</TD><TD align=right x:num>8</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1992</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>46</TD><TD align=right x:num>644</TD><TD align=right x:num>14</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1993</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>41</TD><TD align=right x:num>398</TD><TD align=right x:num>9.7</TD><TD align=right x:num>2</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1994</TD><TD>nyj</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>46</TD><TD align=right x:num>581</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.6</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1995</TD><TD>phi</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD><TD align=right x:num>6</TD><TD align=right x:num>114</TD><TD align=right x:num>19</TD><TD align=right x:num>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

At what point does he look like an elite receiver? 4-5 good years to his credit, and *maybe* two of them can be considered great years.

You can't just total up the stats and say "yup, he's in!" By this logic, Larry Centers is a first-ballot hall of famer.

Franklinnoble

01-30-2004, 12:59 PM

I won't dispute his statistics, but it's pretty hard to point out any amazing seasons, or exaclty at what point he was considered among the truly elite at his position.

My major gripe about the NFL is it's incredibly leniant HOF selection.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 162pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=215 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1280" width=35><COL style="WIDTH: 23pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1097" width=30><COL style="WIDTH: 16pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 768" width=21><COL style="WIDTH: 23pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1097" width=30><COL style="WIDTH: 31pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1499" width=41><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1280" width=35><COL style="WIDTH: 17pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 841" width=23><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="WIDTH: 26pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" width=35 height=17></TD><TD style="WIDTH: 23pt" width=30></TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 16pt" width=21>G</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 23pt" width=30>Rec</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 31pt" width=41>Yards</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 26pt" width=35>YPC</TD><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 17pt" width=23>TD</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1980</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>58</TD><TD align=right x:num>797</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.7</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1981</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>56</TD><TD align=right x:num>894</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>6</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1982</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>9</TD><TD align=right x:num>35</TD><TD align=right x:num>447</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.8</TD><TD align=right x:num>1</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1983</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>12</TD><TD align=right x:num>47</TD><TD align=right x:num>746</TD><TD align=right x:num>15.9</TD><TD align=right x:num>5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1984</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>106</TD><TD align=right x:num>1372</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.9</TD><TD align=right x:num>7</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1985</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>15</TD><TD align=right x:num>91</TD><TD align=right x:num>1226</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.5</TD><TD align=right x:num>2</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1986</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>73</TD><TD align=right x:num>1068</TD><TD align=right x:num>14.6</TD><TD align=right x:num>4</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1987</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>9</TD><TD align=right x:num>38</TD><TD align=right x:num>483</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.7</TD><TD align=right x:num>6</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1988</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>72</TD><TD align=right x:num>946</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.1</TD><TD align=right x:num>5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1989</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>86</TD><TD align=right x:num>1186</TD><TD align=right x:num>13.8</TD><TD align=right x:num>8</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1990</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>68</TD><TD align=right x:num>770</TD><TD align=right x:num>11.3</TD><TD align=right x:num>5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1991</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>71</TD><TD align=right x:num>1049</TD><TD align=right x:num>14.8</TD><TD align=right x:num>8</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1992</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>46</TD><TD align=right x:num>644</TD><TD align=right x:num>14</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1993</TD><TD>was</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>41</TD><TD align=right x:num>398</TD><TD align=right x:num>9.7</TD><TD align=right x:num>2</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1994</TD><TD>nyj</TD><TD align=right x:num>16</TD><TD align=right x:num>46</TD><TD align=right x:num>581</TD><TD align=right x:num>12.6</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" align=right height=17 x:num>1995</TD><TD>phi</TD><TD align=right x:num>3</TD><TD align=right x:num>6</TD><TD align=right x:num>114</TD><TD align=right x:num>19</TD><TD align=right x:num>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

At what point does he look like an elite receiver? 4-5 good years to his credit, and *maybe* two of them can be considered great years.

You can't just total up the stats and say "yup, he's in!" By this logic, Larry Centers is a first-ballot hall of famer.

Monk was on three very different Super Bowl champion teams. On each one, he was a key part of the offense. Keep in mind that he did not play for a pass-happy west-coast style offensive coach, either. The Redskins were a run-first team under Joe Gibbs, and Monk still put up good numbers, and while he may not have been a serious deep threat, there was no one you'd rather throw to on third down.

cthomer5000

01-30-2004, 01:12 PM

Monk was on three very different Super Bowl champion teams. On each one, he was a key part of the offense. Keep in mind that he did not play for a pass-happy west-coast style offensive coach, either. The Redskins were a run-first team under Joe Gibbs, and Monk still put up good numbers, and while he may not have been a serious deep threat, there was no one you'd rather throw to on third down.
I know his bio, and I saw him play a fair amount... It's just that in my opinion, he was never really that great. Monk, Ricky Sanders, and Gary Clark were all good receivers together, but none of those 3 was every really indispensable to the offense.

The HOF should be reserved for the greatest ever, but the NFL is pretty soft on induction... so Monk probably will make it. If not this year, he'll make it soon. I just won't agree with it.

there was no one you'd rather throw to on third down.You can say the same about Wayne Chrebet, but I don't think he'll ever be heading into Canton.

rkmsuf

01-30-2004, 01:15 PM

ntndeacon

01-30-2004, 02:30 PM

I wish Ray Guy would make it. I knowhe is not on the ballot this year, but he one of the greats at his position. Of those that are finalists...Elway and Sanders are shoe ins. I would love to see Carl Eller get in.

Franklinnoble

01-30-2004, 02:35 PM

I know his bio, and I saw him play a fair amount... It's just that in my opinion, he was never really that great. Monk, Ricky Sanders, and Gary Clark were all good receivers together, but none of those 3 was every really indispensable to the offense.

The HOF should be reserved for the greatest ever, but the NFL is pretty soft on induction... so Monk probably will make it. If not this year, he'll make it soon. I just won't agree with it.

You can say the same about Wayne Chrebet, but I don't think he'll ever be heading into Canton.

Monk played most of his career (and went to two Super Bowls) without Clark and Sanders. I'm not suggesting he was entirely indespensable to the Redskins during his career - but then again, Joe Gibbs coached in a manner in which *nobody* was indispensable. With the exception of MAYBE John Riggins, no one player during the Gibbs years made the difference between them winning a title or not.

Celeval

01-30-2004, 02:41 PM

John Stallworth is in the Hall of Fame.

Dante Stallworth is not.

Chubby

01-30-2004, 04:34 PM

as long as Barry gets in (which he will) I'm going with a bunch of friends from work for a ROAD TRIP!

miami_fan

01-30-2004, 08:07 PM

I think that George Young is just as much of a shoe in as Sanders and ELway :D Now back to the players. I do not think that Art Monk should get in, Because I believe the HOF should have the best players of their era. However, I think that the standard for any HOF should also be the players that are already in the HOF. If Lynn Swann, Steve Largent, James Lofton and John Stallworth are in the HOF, then I can't give a logical reason for Monk to be there other than the "we have to stop somewhere or everybody will get in" arguement. But stopping with Monk who has better numbers than the other HOF receivers and has won 3 Super Bowls just doesn't make sense to me. Monk may be the first who is "punished" for football's transition to more of a passing game. The argument against him is that they play more games in this era, they pass more in this era , he was a product of the Joe Gibbs system etc. I think Monk is just the start when you consider that the all time top 20 list for receptions include or will include Michael Irvin, Andre Reed, Andre Rison, Rod Smith and Terrell Owens. Good Receivers but not HOFers in my opinion.

cthomer5000

01-30-2004, 08:10 PM

Dante Stallworth is not.
that's Donte' (complete with extraneous apostrophe).

Chubby

01-30-2004, 08:10 PM

miami_fan

01-30-2004, 08:47 PM

Which WR of recent history do merit HOF entry then? I am in favor of Monk getting in, I wouldn't have a problem with Irvin or Owens either if/when they come up for consideration.

I would say Marvin Harrison for one. I believe that he is the best receiver of his era. Irvin, IMO, was a good maybe even great wide receiver but I do not think he was the best of his era. (Am I really saying this about a former Hurricane? :eek: ) The same with Owens.

Craptacular

01-30-2004, 10:17 PM

Too bad Sterling Sharpe was forced into early retirement. Another year or two, and he would have had a really strong case.

QuikSand

01-30-2004, 10:26 PM

Continuing my case for "established brilliance," I'd much rather see Marvin Harrison or Sterling Sharpe in the HOF than Art Monk. I completely agree with the fairly dismissive comments abotu Monk's year-by-year stats. Solid, valuable, productive... but rarely "elite."

And I'd also agree with miami-fan - George Young is a lock.

Chubby

01-31-2004, 12:21 AM

forgot about Harrison for a sec, was distracted by going out. Harrison def should get in. Sharpe was a great WR but i don't know if he has the longevity to get in.

Hurst2112

01-31-2004, 10:07 AM

Super Bowl MVPs go a long way. Unlike in baseball, big-game performances in the NFL are what make or break a player. That's why Swann's in the Hall and Stallworth ain't.

The game doesn't really lend itself to easy statistical analysis of individual players. That demands that we make subjective evalutaions and those big-stage performances make up a lot of what we think about many players.

That's why Larry Brown will make it in? I find that unlikely.

The one thing about Dent is that he was a pretty consistent player. I certainly don't think that he will be in the hall any time soon, but he will probably make it.

Monk should be in right away...cause it wouldn't be right if he wasn't....hehe

oykib

01-31-2004, 10:47 AM

I said MVPs go a long way. I didn't say that they were everything.

Monk was not a great player. It's that simple. He had two very good years (and three other good ones). But is his record significantly better than this one?

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1989 ind | 16 | 3 18 6.0 0 | 52 820 15.8 4 |
| 1990 atl | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 82 1208 14.7 10 |
| 1991 atl | 16 | 1 -9 -9.0 0 | 81 976 12.0 12 |
| 1992 atl | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 93 1119 12.0 11 |
| 1993 atl | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 86 1242 14.4 15 |
| 1994 atl | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 81 1088 13.4 8 |
| 1995 cle | 16 | 2 0 0.0 0 | 47 701 14.9 3 |
| 1996 gnb | 5 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 13 135 10.4 1 |
| 1996 jax | 10 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 34 458 13.5 2 |
| 1997 kan | 16 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 72 1092 15.2 7 |
| 1998 kan | 14 | 2 12 6.0 0 | 40 542 13.6 5 |
| 1999 kan | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 21 218 10.4 0 |
| 2000 oak | 14 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 41 606 14.8 6 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 184 | 9 23 2.6 0 | 743 10205 13.7 84 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

Of course that player is Andre "Bad Moon" Rison, nobody's Hall of Famer. Had he played two more mediocre years, he would've matched Monk's longevity numbers while, of cousre, maintaining his touchdown lead.

Bill James counsels that we ask these questions when we consider Hall of Fame candidacy in baseball. We should do the sme in football.

1. Is this player the best eligible player not enshrined?
2. Is this the best player at his position not enshrined?
3. Was this player considered the best player in the game?
4. Was this player considered the best player in the conference (league)?
5. Was this player considered the best player at his position?

1. Unequivocally No
2. Unequivocally No
3. Unequivocally No
4. Unequivocally No
5. Arguable, he was in a group of the two or three best in '85 and '86, but I wouldn't have chosen him (poor TD numbers)