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SunDancer
04-13-2004, 01:53 PM
I know we got a few Vegas Residents here. Just curious, is Las Vegas worth living in? Do you enjoy it?

Franklinnoble
04-13-2004, 01:55 PM
You misspelled "viva"

I wouldn't want to live in Vegas.

Desnudo
04-13-2004, 03:09 PM
That wasn't the question foo.

INDalltheway
04-13-2004, 06:25 PM
Long live Las Vegas. :)

SunDancer
04-13-2004, 08:22 PM
You misspelled "viva"

I wouldn't want to live in Vegas.

Why wouldn't you want to live in Vegas. I fixed my error.

Vegas Vic
04-14-2004, 02:12 AM
Outside of the strip, it's not much different than any other large city. Metropolitan Clark County (approximately 1,000 square miles) is rapidly approaching the 2,000,000 population mark. Traffic and air quality are probably the two biggest problems right now.

Overall, unless you're a compulsive gambler, it's not a bad place to live.

CHEMICAL SOLDIER
04-14-2004, 01:19 PM
I live in Henderson, Just outside of Vegas and I think that it's a pretty nice place to live in. Good schools and other ameneties.

SunDancer
04-14-2004, 01:28 PM
Outside of the strip, it's not much different than any other large city. Metropolitan Clark County (approximately 1,000 square miles) is rapidly approaching the 2,000,000 population mark. Traffic and air quality are probably the two biggest problems right now.

Overall, unless you're a compulsive gambler, it's not a bad place to live.

It seems like a great place to live as a single, or non-parent, person. Isn't Vegas the top growing city in the country? You could never be bored I guess? Gambling is still the key to Vegas, but casinos and hotels have become resorts. The dining out experience is among the top in the country, and world, as well as entertainment. Shopping looks very good as well. Nightlife doesn't seem bad as well. Just lack a pro sports franchise. The weather seems very nice (expect summers, but really no difference then other states). Are they taking measures to fix traffic and air quality?

Franklinnoble
04-14-2004, 01:30 PM
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's really not a whole lot of industry there aside from the casios... so what's the job market like?

Chubby
04-14-2004, 01:32 PM
It seems like a great place to live as a single, or non-parent, person. Isn't Vegas the top growing city in the country? You could never be bored I guess? Gambling is still the key to Vegas, but casinos and hotels have become resorts. The dining out experience is among the top in the country, and world, as well as entertainment. Shopping looks very good as well. Nightlife doesn't seem bad as well. Just lack a pro sports franchise. The weather seems very nice (expect summers, but really no difference then other states). Are they taking measures to fix traffic and air quality?
They have minor league teams but no major sport teams (just clarifying as I took pro = professional of any sort)

Vegas Vic
04-14-2004, 01:37 PM
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's really not a whole lot of industry there aside from the casios... so what's the job market like?

That's not really true. Due to the tax structure, there have been a lot of businesses relocating over the past few years. On my side of town, there are two new high-tech business parks that just opened.

SunDancer
04-14-2004, 03:14 PM
The "escort" industry is good as well. Yeah, I know they a triple-A baseball team, a minor league hockey team, and an arena football team. Plus got the college sports of UNLV. I meant a "big four" pro sports franchise. Will we ever see the day of a pro sports team in Vegas? So Vic, take it you love to live in Vegas?

SunDancer
04-15-2004, 10:18 AM
That's not really true. Due to the tax structure, there have been a lot of businesses relocating over the past few years. On my side of town, there are two new high-tech business parks that just opened.

So Vic, is starting a business in Vegas a good spot then I take it? Is it a good recruiting area for recruitment of employees (both locally and out-of-Vegas residents)? Is Vegas good for marriage, dating, and family life?

corbes
04-15-2004, 10:20 AM
I've heard rumors of Las Vegas being a viable candidate for the Expos. No idea how plausible those rumors are.

SunDancer
04-15-2004, 10:23 AM
I've heard rumors of Las Vegas being a viable candidate for the Expos. No idea how plausible those rumors are.

Really? Wow. I thought the gaming of Vegas wouldn't give it hope of getting any type of "Big Four" pro sports leagues in town.

corbes
04-15-2004, 10:59 AM
Here's the dealie I read in SI:

Stadium roulette

MLB flirts with Las Vegas as new home for Expos

Posted: Friday March 26, 2004 3:08PM; Updated: Friday March 26, 2004 3:09PM
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Don't you love it when the staid, old game of baseball tries to get hip? Lately, we've witnessed juiced baseballs and outfielders looking like the original Incredible Hulk, Lou Ferrigno. Now comes word sure to put a grin on Pete Rose's fleshy mug -- baseball is playing footsies with Sin City.

That's right, Las Vegas. The gambling capital of the world. The only place in the land where one can legally bet on a ballgame.

Can't you just picture Rose back in uniform, working the home dugout just off the Vegas Strip? The stadium concourses lined as far as the eye can see with one-armed bandits and video poker machines?

A top baseball official confirmed that Las Vegas is "under active consideration'' as baseball shops for a buyer to relocate the Montreal Expos. From a business and buzz perspective, it makes a heckuva lot more sense than Portland, Ore., Monterrey, Mexico, or maybe even Northern Virginia. Vegas is flush with cash, as well as being home to a burgeoning population and 35 million tourists annually. But it presents an ethical dilemma that you'd think Bud Selig and his band of merry owners would rather avoid at the moment.

Listen to the ethicists' take on baseball and Vegas.

• "I'd like to be able to say people can locate their businesses wherever they want, yet it does raise some questions about line-drawing that I am not sure we can trust Major League Baseball to implement,'' says Marcia Sage, president of the Sports Ethics Institute. "What good can come from putting a Major League Baseball team in a city known for gambling? I can see a lot of financial reasons for doing it, but I think it is morally questionable.''

• "I hate to say it, it is like putting an alcoholic in a bar. You are not obligating anybody to drink, but it seems to me that it sends a message,'' says Stuart Gilman, president of the Ethics Center Resource. "As a sport, Major League Baseball really needs to take seriously the issue of integrity and understand that both appearance and reality are important.''

From the sound of things, it's a good bet that the owners will pass when and if a decision comes down later this year -- with the favorite still thought to be the Washington/Northern Virginia area. A Vegas insider told SI.com this week the chances of striking a deal with baseball are "less than 50-50.'' Still, it's amusing to find baseball openly flirtatious with Vegas, even if only to create competition and thus hike the value of the Expos.

Major League Baseball's relocation committee has trekked several times to the desert, and is weighing a proposal built around construction of a 40,000-seat, retractable-roof ballpark. The stadium would sit not far from the Strip on land owned by Caesars Entertainment Inc., which is hot for something that can be reconfigured to seat 25,000 as a concert site for the likes of Cher and the Rolling Stones.

But knowing baseball never could hook up with owners directly tied to the gaming industry, Caesars has smartly cast itself as just the landlord. The major investors are described as "Wall Street people'' with no ties to Vegas -- and that's why baseball continues to listen. "In that particular circumstance the structure [of ownership] is going to be important,'' acknowledged John McHale, MLB's executive vice president for administration and a member of the relocation committee.

The investors themselves have to be comfortable they can pull the deal off with mostly private money. Because the small local market won't produce the amount of TV rights revenue received by most teams, a snag could be whether the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is interested in helping make up the difference, which could approach $10 million a year.

Obviously, Selig and baseball's executive committee will engage in lively debate if the Vegas bid has legs, but you wonder what they're waiting for. Can you put a team in the gambling mecca or not? "It doesn't reduce itself to saying, 'Yes, that is consistent with our policy' or, 'No, it isn't consistent with our policy,''' McHale says. "I think it is something that weighs into the calculation of the merits of the proposal.''

Left unsaid is Vegas could gain considerable favor if its sportsbooks were to agree not to post betting lines on MLB games, or at least games involving the local team. An industry source said not taking bets on the Vegas franchise wouldn't be a hard sell, but that the casinos would likely balk at taking down all major-league games -- even though sportsbooks are not a huge profit driver for casinos and baseball isn't big with gamblers.

The hunch here is baseball's owners would entertain offers from Baghdad if it'd jack up what they can pocket from the sale of the Expos. Isn't that what this delay game is all about -- money? But as markets fall out of favor and the relocation options dwindle, bet on Las Vegas eventually landing a big-league sports team.

And then we'll catch the sports leaders' fancy footwork.



Mike Fish is a senior writer for SI.com.

corbes
04-15-2004, 11:00 AM
Supporting article:

April 01, 2004


Prospect of Vegas luring Expos improving



Major League Baseball eyes move, possible stadium site



By Rob Miech
<[email protected] ([email protected])>
(c) 2004 LAS VEGAS SUN

An out-of-town group is working seriously behind the scenes to buy the Montreal Expos and move them to Las Vegas.

Major League Baseball is weighing that effort just as seriously.

All of the parties involved have called the several meetings that have been held as informal and preliminary, but productive.

"They are exploring," an insider said. "To say they aren't, or haven't been, is inaccurate. It's being kept very quiet."

Another figure in the Las Vegas negotiations said, "This is getting very realistic."

The Sun has learned:

<CENTER>•••</CENTER>

Investors Robert Blumenfeld of New York and Peter Hueser of the Chicago area, and Bob Scanlan of Portland, Ore., formed Las Vegas Stadium Co. LLC, (LVSC) in December to explore the purchase and transfer of the Expos to Las Vegas.

<CENTER>•••</CENTER>

Illinois entrepreneur Lou Weisbach formed a group called Teamscape, to buy the Expos and relocate them to Las Vegas, about 18 months ago. He brought Blumenfeld into the fold, and Blumenfeld has since become the point man in the project.

<CENTER>•••</CENTER>

Caesars Entertainment Inc. has begun planning to build a $400 million, retractable-roof stadium on land behind its Paris Las Vegas and Bally's properties. Because Major League Baseball restricts its owners from having any links to the gaming industry, Caesars would act only as a building landlord, not an owner of the team.

<CENTER>•••</CENTER>

Kansas City, Mo.-based HOK Sport has been retained by a consultant to potentially build a 40,000-seat baseball stadium, which would also be used for concerts and other entertainment.

<CENTER>•••</CENTER>

Members of MLB's relocation committee have visited Las Vegas at least four times. Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, owner of the Chicago White Sox, has surveyed the Paris/Bally's site.

<CENTER>•••</CENTER>

Gambling in Las Vegas, once thought to be an insurmountable obstacle to bringing a major-league sports franchise to the city, might not be such a huge hurdle after all.

At stake is the future of a franchise born in 1969 as MLB's first venture into Canada. Despite some success on the field, the Expos failed to elbow their way into Montreal's hockey-mad sports consciousness.

Attendance dwindled to record-low levels. Eventually, MLB had to take over ownership of the franchise, paying Jeffrey Loria $120 million so that he could flee Montreal and purchase the Florida Marlins.

Once MLB took control of the team, the search began to find a new home for the Expos.

Three weeks ago baseball Commissioner Bud Selig told the MLB Web site that the nine-member relocation committee "has been exploring Las Vegas as a possibility."

Terry Jicinsky, a senior vice president in charge of marketing for the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority (LVCVA), said he has participated in meetings in which the Expos and Las Vegas have been discussed.

"Not where this has been the sole item of discussion, but there have been various meetings and updates," Jicinsky said. "It's been very premature and exploratory, but there's the potential for it to become one of the things we use as a marketing tool."

That few details have been publicized about sensitive discussions, chronologies of events and other details, according to some familiar with the under-the-radar nature of those talks, has impressed MLB.

Blumenfeld and Scanlan both have refused interview requests.

Scanlan is the president of Scanlan Kemper Bard Companies, a private investment and development concern based in Portland that most recently made headlines by buying a 300,000-square-foot Colorado shopping mall a few weeks ago for $29 million.

Blumenfeld, whose headquarters is in Manhattan, is a partner in the Blumenfeld Hueser Group.

Someone answered Blumenfeld's cell phone Tuesday and abruptly hung up on a Sun reporter. Blumenfeld is known as an erudite, low-key, Oxford-educated capitalist who fiercely protects his privacy.

Blumenfeld's partner, Peter Hueser, said he could not talk when reached at his office in Oak Brook, Ill., a Chicago suburb.

Weisbach is the chairman of the board, president and chief executive officer of HA-LO Industries Inc., a top promotional products distributor that is based in Niles, Ill., also a Chicago suburb.

He started his company by selling T-shirts from the trunk of his car, and he is known as a major Democratic fund-raiser. He got Chicago Cubs broadcaster Steve Stone to join Teamscape, a savvy move because of Stone's many contacts in baseball.

Weisbach could not be reached for comment.

A source said the relationship between Teamscape and Las Vegas Stadium Co. is "ill-defined," that they aren't exactly partners but that they are working in tandem for a common goal.

"It takes a lot of people to go out there and get the equity that will be needed for this," the source said. "Obviously, we're talking about a lot of money, and having two groups to attract those resources is a good thing."

Even Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman, who has been an outspoken advocate for his city to land one of the four major sports, has considerably toned down his volume.

Goodman has talked publicly about what he has perceived as Las Vegas' high standing with MLB's nine-member relocation committee, drawing criticism in baseball's Park Avenue executive offices in New York.

Neither Goodman nor a spokeswoman from his office would grant an interview request by the Sun.

Don Logan, president and general manager of the Las Vegas 51s, the Los Angeles Dodgers' Triple-A affiliate, said the city deserves a serious look by MLB because of its rapid growth.

"I think Vegas certainly warrants an examination, beyond Oscar banging the drum so loudly for the last few years," Logan said. "It is one of the fastest-growing areas in the country and it doesn't have any major-league sports."

The LVCVA estimates that approximately 36 million people will visit the city, whose population is 1.6 million, in 2004.

Clark County's Department of Comprehensive Planning said it expects the city's population to hit about 2 million by 2010.

That's small-market status comparable to Milwaukee, with the attraction being the weekly influx of hundreds of thousands of visitors.

Baseball had hoped to establish a new home for the Expos, who have drawn the worst attendance in the game for years, by last summer's All-Star break.

That deadline evaporated without a conclusion when organizing groups in Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia and Portland failed to impress the relocation committee with flimsy stadium financing and/or site selection plans.

Constant headlines may have hurt, too.

"More showy markets seeking the Expos," said one insider, "have done themselves a disservice pressuring baseball through publicity."

Those three areas are still in the game, but their errors have allowed Monterrey, Mexico; Hampton Roads, Va.; San Juan, Puerto Rico; San Antonio and Las Vegas to enter the fray for the beleaguered franchise.

Scanlan was not involved in Portland's attempts to attract the Expos.

A few weeks ago Massachusetts real estate developer John Alevizos announced his intention to purchase the team and move it to Connecticut, but it isn't clear if MLB has taken his plan seriously.

MLB president and chief operating officer Robert DuPuy, who is on the relocation committee, has said that group will ponder the details of each candidate city's proposal through April.

Selig expects to receive a recommendation from the committee by May 1, to be revealed during the All-Star break in Houston in mid-July.

However, John McHale Jr., an MLB vice president in charge of administration and a relocation committee member, expressed doubt last week to the Washington Post that the All-Star decision deadline would be met.

Reinsdorf's secretary at his Chicago office said he would not publicly comment on the relocation process, referring all interview requests to DuPuy. DuPuy has not returned calls seeking comment.

Meanwhile, Teamscape and LVSC have retained Mike Shapiro, a consultant for the San Francisco Bay Area-based Centerfield Management Group, to act on their behalf with MLB and Caesars.

Shapiro counts several high-ranking MLB officials, like Selig's special relocation envoy Corey Bush, as confidants, and those relationships could facilitate negotiations for LVSC.

Shapiro confirmed HOK's involvement in the Paris/Bally's site. HOK has been responsible for baseball's retro stadium wave over the past 12 years, beginning with Oriole Park at Camden Yards in Baltimore.

The company became well known for combining the nostalgic atmosphere of traditional parks with modern amenities.

Coors Field in Denver, Jacobs Field in Cleveland, Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia, Comerica Park in Detroit, PETCO Park in San Diego and Minute Maid Park in Houston are all HOK creations.

Two HOK architects referred interview requests to Shapiro.

Shapiro said that, at this preliminary stage, HOK has been limited to conducting analyses at the Paris/Bally's site. Blueprints are still blank, as there are numerous goals left to achieve, "... not the least of which," Shapiro said, "is to convince Major League Baseball to go there."

Shapiro arrived in Las Vegas last Friday, met with representatives from local public relations firm Brown & Partners for the first time and celebrated his 53rd birthday at Mandalay Bay over the weekend.

"It's a little preliminary, at this point," said a Brown & Partners official, "for us to say anything."

Paul Davis, a lead architect for NBBJ Sports & Entertainment, said two years is the minimum requirement to build a stadium with a retractable roof. NBBJ, based in Marina del Rey, Calif., designed Safeco Field in Seattle and Miller Park in Milwaukee, both of which are baseball-specific stadiums with retractable roofs.

In fact, Davis said, three years is the optimum timetable for such a project. MLB executives are aware of those time frames, an insider said, and can wait for the Expos to be settled into their new home until 2007.

In the Washington-Northern Virginia areas, RFK Stadium could serve as a temporary facility until a new stadium is constructed. While those factions battle each other in wooing MLB, Peter Angelos waits.

Angelos, the Baltimore Orioles' managing general partner and a lawyer with a very successful history, has threatened legal action for territory infringement.

Bush, a former San Francisco Giants executive under whom Shapiro once worked, meets and talks with Shapiro on a regular basis.

Well respected in MLB circles, Bush recently displayed his versatility when he served as Frank McCourt's point man in his purchase of the Dodgers.

The Expos have been owned and operated by a limited partnership of baseball's 29 other franchises since they purchased the team from Loria before the 2002 season.

This season, as they did in 2003, the Expos will play about a quarter of their 81 home games in San Juan. They will fetch market value when MLB sells them.

Should the Expos move to Las Vegas, Logan said the 51s would be owed in excess of $10 million for territorial rights that the Triple-A franchise has enjoyed for more than 20 years.

He had been toiling, through political channels, for a new stadium in Henderson to replace the aging Cashman Field. But movement has been stalled as the smoke clears on the Expos' situation.

Logan said continued market growth for five to 10 years, a more diverse economy and a solid corporate base, to purchase luxury suites and season tickets, would be needed for MLB success in Las Vegas.

Gambling undoubtedly would be addressed by MLB.

"I think that phobia has been allayed somewhat," Logan said. "You're talking about the basis of that concern, from a baseball standpoint, being the 1919 Black Sox scandal. That's almost a century ago.

"It's certainly more controlled than it's ever been. No place polices gaming better than Nevada, and particularly Las Vegas. ... There's a much better understanding that it's a legitimate, controlled industry."

Jay Kornegay, the director of the Imperial Palace race and sports book, likened his industry making concessions to MLB to the time when he and his peers in the city did not post lines, or odds, on UNLV basketball and football games.

"We were called a bunch of hypocrites," he said. "And we said, 'You guys are right.' That was outdated. We've put UNLV on (the board) for the last three years, and it's no different than any other game."

Kornegay reiterated that no concessions would be made, that he would invite MLB officials on a tour of the grounds to educate them on how well the books are regulated and policed.

"I think they'd understand what goes on better," he said. "It's not a bunch of guys in the back room smoking cigars. I think we could change the way some (MLB) officials think if we educate them. "And I'd love to see a team here."

SunDancer
04-15-2004, 03:59 PM
Interesting. I think Gambling is something that if the casinos take responsilibilty for, and work with the league, it would be a near non-issue.

Franklinnoble
04-15-2004, 04:28 PM
The Expos should be in D.C. The fact that MLB is letting Peter Angelos continually bully that market out of a team is totally disgusting, and one of many reasons why I think Bud Selig is a shitty excuse for a commisioner.

John Galt
04-15-2004, 04:31 PM
The Expos should be in D.C. The fact that MLB is letting Peter Angelos continually bully that market out of a team is totally disgusting, and one of many reasons why I think Bud Selig is a shitty excuse for a commisioner.

For once, Franklinnoble and I completely and wholeheartedly agree on something.

Franklinnoble
04-15-2004, 04:42 PM
For once, Franklinnoble and I completely and wholeheartedly agree on something.
In other news, a monkey just flew out of my ass.

The Afoci
04-15-2004, 04:43 PM
For once, Franklinnoble and I completely and wholeheartedly agree on something.

Time for a hug.

John Galt
04-15-2004, 04:49 PM
Time for a hug.

Not when he had a monkey where a trout should be.

The Afoci
04-15-2004, 05:04 PM
Not when he had a monkey where a trout should be.

He likes to experiment. You liberals are much too conservative.

SunDancer
04-15-2004, 05:17 PM
LOL.
Do you think Vegas would suceed though for a MLB team?