Best/Worst Presidents?

[Sharpieman]

I saw on another thread that people listed who they thought were the best and worst Presidents of their lifetime. I thought this was kinda cool, so I'd like to see how people rate them on a thread of its own. I would also like to see people rate past Presidents that they haven't been around to see. All the way back to Washington. Just rate as many as you like, first to worst or worst to first, you can give a reason or not. Include Bush II or not, whatever. BTW, these are peoples opinions, so if someone selectively leaves something out that others think is important to evaluating a Prez's success (like Clintons fun with a cigar), it shouldn't matter because its their opinion. This isn't intended to be a debate either just a thing for fun.

[mtaystl03]

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The New Deal. Period.

[Axxon]

I'll just quote my original post on this.


Anyway, we talk about best and worst presidents so here's my list, in my lifetime.

From worst to first.

1. George W Bush - I hate the asshat. I don't see much plus side really.

2. Ronald Reagan - many love him but I don't. He did his best to polarize our society and took a cavalier world view. I really didn't like this guy one bit. He's the only guy who has been president I've hated. Maybe should be #1 but as much as I hated him, as a president I think W is worse.

3. Lyndon Johnson - here's an award winning asshat. Escalated vietnam, did zip at home. He didn't even try. He is an asshat supreme and is easily amongst the worst. His only redeeming value is that the two above him were in office once I was older and therefore I'm more more critical. He may easily be the worst and if argued correctly I'd probably concur.

4. Jimmy Carter/ Gerald Ford - I love both of these guys. Neither was a good president maybe but they both served us as best as they could. They are both great guys. I could talk about successes and failures but I was proud of both of these men though neither would win any awards as president.

5. George Bush - I really love this man. He was a great president working in a difficult time. His choice here is by a nose. The man didn't get a lot of respect but handled a lot of world changes in a great way. Maybe the economy didn't exactly do well but he layed the groundwork for a world economy. He doesn't get credit for this.

6. John Kennedy - ok, he loses points for only living 21 days into my life. I understand his value and respect his life achievements but his accomplishments, minus the MM connection while admirable aren't memorable.

7. William Clinton - damn it's a close one. I had a better life under Bill and I'm not morally againsy blow jobs nor lying about them. I really want to put him as #1 and really he should be maybe. All presidents have warts, both domestically, in foreign policy and in their personal life. Bills didn't affect the country. His were deeply personal but I never felt he didn't care about me. It was great but not quite #1.

8. The winner is, Richard Millhouse Nixon - Sorry, he is my man. RMH had personal flaws and they were big ones. For me though, he was a hero. I was a child during vietnam. I can remember sincerely feeling that the war would go on forever and that I would surely die in a war I didn't give a damn about. This man ended that fear.

That alone would give him a bump sure, but he also championed detente, opening the door to normalized relations to China and brokered the first peace we had in the middle east, a feat we've never been able to really duplicate ever again. Kissinger was the cause? Sure, but who appointed him?

RMN had his faults and they were biggies but overall, his years in office were great ones. We can't easily ignore his warts and we payed for those, but how can we ignore his successes? I just don't get it. Yeah, I was a fan boy. I'm still alive. The world is more stable. All of these have been influenced by RMN. I just can't put an election scandal ( and an unnecessary one at that ) above what good he did. I'm not defending it but it just didn't matter in terms of history.

I imagine this post will piss off almost everybody but trust me, it's from the heart.


It'll be fun if we get more people playing along.

[Schmidty]

Ulysses S. Grant had the most corrupt presidency, so I suppose that could make him one of the top candidates for the worst president.

[Cuckoo]

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The New Deal. Period.

Yeah, he'd be high on my list of the worst too.

[CamEdwards]

but we're speaking of "in our lifetime" gentlemen.

Worst= Jimmy Carter.

Best= Ronald Reagan.

[Schmidty]

but we're speaking of "in our lifetime" gentlemen.


I'm 163.

[dacman]

Ah, Cam

... I would also like to see people rate past Presidents that they haven't been around to see. All the way back to Washington...

[Bosco]

In my lifetime:

Worst = George H.W. Bush
Best = Bill Clinton

[BishopMVP]

In my lifetime:

Worst = George H.W. Bush
Best = Bill ClintonNever mind.

[FBPro]

Best-Reagan
Worst-Clinton(no contest)

[CamEdwards]

Ah, Cam

aha!

In that case:

Worst: Grant

Best: Thomas Jefferson. Viva la Louisiana Purchase!

[Cuckoo]

Never mind.

Booooo... You edited it.

[The Afoci]

In my lifetime:

Worst = George H.W. Bush
Best = Bill Clinton

In other news, I stuck my thumb in my ass and discovered Jesus.

[FBPro]

In other news, I stuck my thumb in my ass and discovered Jesus.

Classic........

[Scoobz0202]

Hey, I have to agree with Bosco. :| I'm only 17 :|

[Franklinnoble]

In my lifetime, I'd put Reagan as the best. I had an idyllic childhood, and I somehow always equate how I remember American culture with Ronald Reagan. Somehow, I just think he garnered more respect than Carter or any of the presidents who followed him.

Carter was probably the most inept, and Clinton was terribly corrupt and irresponsible... I was embarrassed to have him in office.

I think Bush 1.0 did alright, but while he did a good job handling worldwide political change, he could have done better with the economy at home - although I don't know how much you can really blame a President for the economy... just as I think Clinton gets too much credit for the economy during his tenure.... it's not as if he invented the Internet (that was Al Gore ;))

The jury is still out on Bush 2.0. I like how he has handled things post-9/11, but I think he's treading a fine line with the Dept. of Homeland Security, and I think he should have been more clear ahead of time on why we went to war with Iraq. He (or somebody in his administration) had to know that there was a possibility of not finding WMD's... and that really shouldn't have been sold as the primary motivation. Saddam had plenty of other reasons to get removed from power.

[clintl]

In my lifetime:

Best: John F. Kennedy
Worst: George W. Bush (which takes some doing, considering the extremely low regard I have for Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson)

All-time:

Best: Abraham Lincoln
Worst: James Buchanan

[Blitz]

Best: FDR

Worst: Herbert Hoover

[Axxon]

In other news, I stuck my thumb in my ass and discovered Jesus.

Did you remove your head first? If not, that's likely what you discovered.

[Senator]

This is obviously an exercise in futility.

A trademarked FOFC trait.

[Bosco]

In my lifetime:

Best: John F. Kennedy
Worst: George W. Bush (which takes some doing, considering the extremely low regard I have for Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson)

All-time:

Best: Abraham Lincoln
Worst: James Buchanan


Anyone who doesn't put Nixon well ahead of Kennedy must not have been paying attention.

[The Afoci]

Did you remove your head first? If not, that's likely what you discovered.

If I removed my head, it wouldn't be as tight. Obviously you don't like things anally. Your wife must be pissed.

[sooner333]

Best: Reagan

Worst: Clinton

[Franklinnoble]

If I removed my head, it wouldn't be as tight. Obviously you don't like things anally. Your wife must be pissed.
His wife has others to take care of that.http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Afoci]

His wife has others to take care of that.http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

And with that, a spike in condom sales in his hometown should be expected.

[Franklinnoble]

And with that, a spike in condom sales in his hometown should be expected.
I don't use condoms. I'm so large, I have to use a Hefty sack.

[Ryche]

Best: Teddy Roosevelt
Worst: U.S. Grant - Great general, which is the only reason he became president. Warfare may have been his only talent though.

I can't judge recent presidents at all objectively, so I won't even try.

[Axxon]

If I removed my head, it wouldn't be as tight. Obviously you don't like things anally. Your wife must be pissed.

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to find a mexican up there. Then she'd really get pissed.

[Franklinnoble]

I don't know why everyone is capping on Grant. I thought he did pretty good in "Wild Wild West."

[The Afoci]

I don't use condoms. I'm so large, I have to use a Hefty sack.

I wouldn't recommend going at it without a condom. Last I checked, the crabs had formed their own colony. She didn't shave, they cut it down, formed huts. It did explain the hairy ass though.

[The Afoci]

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to find a mexican up there. Then she'd really get pissed.

That would be a hell of a way to run a board.

"How did you get into the country?"

"In some ladies ass."

[Axxon]

That would be a hell of a way to run a board.

"How did you get into the country?"

"In some ladies ass."

No shit...well, not exactly true but it would be one hell of a way wouldn't it?

[The Afoci]

No shit...well, not exactly true but it would be one hell of a way wouldn't it?

Maybe that could be why all the large white ladies in Fargo seem to be married to the immigrants...

I kid. Sort of. It seems true.

I got nothing.

[Axxon]

And then Mavis mercifully reached for the x-lax.

Me either.

[Sun Tzu]

Charlton Heston baby! WOOOOO!

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands"

:) Seriously I'm not enough into politics to be able to rate presidents. I am however pretty big on US history, so I think I'm going to go with TJ.

[bamcgee]

I believe that Lincoln, hands down, was the greatest president. Washington was also very impressive - it's always difficult being the first. Both are amazing figures. Either Roosevelt also could be number one.

As far as the worst, well, lots of presidents did nothing. But the ones who really screwed the pooch were Harding, Buchanan, and Grant.

[Fritz]

Worst President ever? Without putting more effort into some of the presidents of the 1800s, where there are some excellent candidates, I would say LBJ.

Justification for my position later.

[lcjjdnh]

3. Lyndon Johnson - here's an award winning asshat. Escalated vietnam, did zip at home. He didn't even try. He is an asshat supreme and is easily amongst the worst. His only redeeming value is that the two above him were in office once I was older and therefore I'm more more critical. He may easily be the worst and if argued correctly I'd probably concur.

Personally, I have not been around long enough to really comment(18 years) on best and worst because there's not really a lot of choice or me caring as a young child but I'll do my best to make comments anyway.

Just a small comment on LBJ. You claim that he didn't make an effort to do anything at home but I think that's a bit of an unfair statement. He did have his "Great Society" plan and although he did get caught up in Vietnam, it's really fair to disregard his entire domestic policy. He pushed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 through Congress. He also managed to get education aid upped and get Medicare and Medicaid passed. He helped institute low-income hoising laws, rent-supplement programs and gave out block grants to improve cities. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 also struck down any remaining barriers which would allow voting to be descriminatory. He also set up the HUD and Transportation departments. Johnson instituted "affirmative action" as well.

Now obviously, you many not agree with his domestic policies and Vietnam was mishandled but to write him off as doing "zip at home" is a tad bit short sighted.

[Anthony]

Clinton was the best. who cares about his blowjob. at least he didn't send hundreds of americans to their deaths on faulty assumptions and bad information, costing USA millions in the process with little payoff other than some false notion of "safety", because everyone knows a war on terror will eradicate all semblance of terrorism forever. Slick Willy was in office for the best boom in economy ever, and during his administration we had 8 years of relative peace.

where have you gone, 1990's, we miss you.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Best: Teddy Roosevelt
Worst: U.S. Grant - Great general, which is the only reason he became president. Warfare may have been his only talent though.

I can't judge recent presidents at all objectively, so I won't even try.
As bad as Grant was, at least he wasn't Andy Johnson. His fucking up reconstruction set the nation back several generations...

[BigJohn&TheLions]

[QUOTE=Axxon]
1. George W Bush - I hate the asshat....

2. Ronald Reagan - ...He's the only guy who has been president I've hated.

[/et more QUOTE]

ummm, am I the only one who saw a slight discrepency... Oh yeah, maybe it is all part of the same presidency. Little Georgie couldn't have been prez if not for Ronnie's gang helping him screw things up...

[Fritz]

Now obviously, you many not agree with his domestic policies and Vietnam was mishandled but to write him off as doing "zip at home" is a tad bit short sighted.

His disaterous policies at home are at the center of my argument for LBJ as the worst president.

[BishopMVP]

Booooo... You edited it.The over/under on his tenure here is about 2 weeks, and I don't feel like being dragged down with him.


As for the Presidents, here's what I said in the other thread. I was born in '85, but I'll go back to LBJ. This is just the general impression I have gotten, since the 2nd half of Clinton and Bush II are the only ones I've really understood or paid attention to. I'm not going to put them in a specific order, but just give a general sense.

LBJ: Vietnam was inherited, and not his fault that we were there. But he fought the war the wrong way. If we had been doing what Nixon started doing early in his term and didn't institute a draft, we probably would have won and at least achieved a situation similar to Korea instead of 'losing' the war and having South Vietnam and the surrounding countries being overrun by murderous thugs who committed genocide. Domestically, he signed the Civil Rights Bill, which Kennedy did a lot of work on, and attempted his "Great Society" program. Civil Rights turned out good, the great society not nearly as well. Verdict: Not very good.

Nixon: Did well on Vietnam, especially with his Vietnamization program, until domestic pressure spurred by Watergate became too great and he had to cut off all aid. Also opened relations with China. The effects of realpolitik are still being felt today, and while it solved many problems short term, it may have created just as many long term. Still, because we were in the middle of the Cold War, it was probably necessary. Domestically, he was responsible for much of the actual implementation of the Civil Rights Act and almost never gets any credit. His short-term economic policies implemented to help guarantee re-election hurt the country a lot in the mid-70's. Verdict:
A decent president who unfairly has his negatives focused on much more than most Presidents.

Ford: Wasn't there for long, didn't have much to work with, and didn't do much. I don;t know too much about his time in office, but he seems to have been more of a placeholder than anything else. Verdict: In the middle. Didn't do much either way. Gets a slight bonus for playing college football as well as he did, but it is negated because he played at Michigan.

Carter: Great man. My mom once said that he was probably the only President she would trust to watch her kids. Unfortunately, that seems to be a horrible quality for a President. His foreign policy was hideously weak, and cost him the election. His humanitarian efforts after his Presidency won him the Nobel Prize, but his brokered deal in Korea has been shown to be completely ignored by the North Koreans, which exemplifies the problems with his foreign policy while in office. Verdict: Worst President on the list.

Reagan: While others were urging conciliation with the USSR, his bellicose stance helped lead to the collapse and end of the Cold War. Shifting the tax burden from individuals to corporations is often mistaken as huge tax cuts. The economy did much better under him. His wife led the charge to the War on Drugs, the worst government program in a long time. Verdict: Best President on the list, despite the War on Drugs.

Bush I: Basically continued what Reagan was doing. Unfortunately for him, jobs recovered a year too late, Perot entered the race, and he lost the election. Verdict: Solid President. Didn't have too many of his own ideas that he tried to implement, but was an effective steward.

Clinton: Promoted Free Trade, especially NAFTA, which is good for the economy. Effectively ignored the growing threat of terrorism after the end of the Cold War. Proved effective in building coalitions for Kosovo, but his casualty-averse actions after Mogadishu (pulling out of Somalia, ignoring Rwanda) were disgraceful. Domestically, he presided over the biggest economic boom in a long time, but most of that was due to technological advances. Also expanded the War on Drugs. Verdict: A good President. Near the top of the list. His biggest failing was on the growing threat of terrorism, but no one was really talking about it and Republicans even accused him of "Wagging the Dog" when he took his small action against bin Laden.

Bush II: Pre 9/11 a listless President who wasn't doing much. Afterwards, recognized that something must be done and has set out to do it. While the results will not really be known for 10-20 years at the least, I think he is on the right track. Economically, has continued promoting free trade and has made some tax cuts, which are good but tilted a little too much towards the rich. Recent indications have him starting a War on Porn, which is an even more stupid idea than the War on Drugs. Verdict: Won't be known for a while, but as of now, I feel confident putting him in the top half.
As for other ones, I think JFK gets overrated because he wasn't in office long enough for anything bad to really stick to him. Washington is unquestionably #1 on my list. I don't know enough about most other Presidents to really rank them or say too much.

[Axxon]

[QUOTE=Axxon]
1. George W Bush - I hate the asshat....

2. Ronald Reagan - ...He's the only guy who has been president I've hated.

[/et more QUOTE]

ummm, am I the only one who saw a slight discrepency... Oh yeah, maybe it is all part of the same presidency. Little Georgie couldn't have been prez if not for Ronnie's gang helping him screw things up...

I noticed it this morning but didn't see it as that important to edit. Didn't think folks here would paint this into some sort of conspiracy theory. For the record I'll downgrade W to simple strong dislike and distrust. I still hate Reagan.

[pennywisesb]

reagan basically single handedly bringing down the soviet union makes him the best president of my lifetime. as for this century, FDR would have to be my choice because of the way he was able to guide the US out of the depression, and bring us through WWII victoriously on both fronts. As for the worst of my lifetime: bill clinton. the economy was starting to get better under george bush sr. and clinton took all the credit for it. also, all the corruption during his two terms was just ridiculous. the day he left office was a great day for me. as for the worst president ever, i would give the award to herbert hoover and the disaster that was "the great depression".

[lcjjdnh]

His disaterous policies at home are at the center of my argument for LBJ as the worst president.
Two comments for you and I really am interested in your response. One is what exactly you feel is so disasterous about about his domestic policies. The second one is kind of realted in that if it is simply because you don't agree with his policies, I was just saying that he did attempt to pass legislation on the domestic side and it's not like he completely forgot about home which is the feeling I gathered from Axxon's post.

[VPI97]

Lifetime
Best - Reagan
Worst - Clinton
Most apathetic - Carter

All-time
Best - Lincoln
Worst - W.H.Harrison - He was sick the whole time + it was the death of the Whig Party.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Check this out and then answer who is the worst...

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html

[Sharpieman]

I'm only 19, so it would be unfair to rate the 3 Presidents that I have actually paid attention to in order.
All-Time
Top three Best:
1. FDR- Although he had some faults he was still great.
2. Thomas Jefferson - He was the old time Clinton, loved the women, but he was a good President and my favorite founding father.
3. Lincoln - Leader during the Civil War, Emancipation Proclamation.

Worst 3 ever:
1. Woodrow Wilson -Had the dumbest foreign policy ever. His strategy during the treaty of Versailles was horrible. He greatly contributed to the cause of WW2.
2. Grant - Great military, lackluster politician.
3. Lyndon Johnson - Everybody knows he sucked.

Overrated Presidents in no order:
Kennedy: Although he helped further civil liberties, he almost caused WW3 with the Bay of Pigs conflict.
Reagan: His brilliant "Regonomics" pushed the Federal Deficit from $1 trillion to $3 trillion during his tenure.

[BishopMVP]

FDR would have to be my choice because of the way he was able to guide the US out of the depression, and bring us through WWII victoriously on both fronts. Not picking on you in particular, but I think that some Presidents get too much credit just because they were in power when a big event took place. Most US Presidents probably would have won WWII, some better, some worse than Roosevelt. So how much credit should he get for being the one who did it?

[Axxon]

reagan basically single handedly bringing down the soviet union makes him the best president of my lifetime. as for this century, FDR would have to be my choice because of the way he was able to guide the US out of the depression, and bring us through WWII victoriously on both fronts. As for the worst of my lifetime: bill clinton. the economy was starting to get better under george bush sr. and clinton took all the credit for it. also, all the corruption during his two terms was just ridiculous. the day he left office was a great day for me. as for the worst president ever, i would give the award to herbert hoover and the disaster that was "the great depression".

I'm not going to comment on your choices but there is some inconsistancy isn't there?

You hate Clinton because he took credit for the bush recovery but ding Hoover for the depression when he was a one term wonder.

Also, you reserve your greatest praise for president Reagan but the fall of the soviet union occured on president Bush's watch.

So, Bush gets praise for something that occured on someone elses watch but not for what occured on his while Clinton gets no credit and Hoover takes all the blame though he wasn't in office for more than a few months when the crash happened???

[Axxon]

Lifetime
Best - Reagan
Worst - Clinton
Most apathetic - Carter

All-time
Best - Lincoln
Worst - W.H.Harrison - He was sick the whole time + it was the death of the Whig Party.

Harrison wasn't that bad and we still have a wig or two on FOFC. :)

[FBPro]

Did you remove your head first? If not, that's likely what you discovered.

I actually think that Clinton's head was "up somewhere".

[lcjjdnh]

I'm only 19, so it would be unfair to rate the 3 Presidents that I have actually paid attention to in order.
All-Time
Top three Best:
1. FDR- Although he had some faults he was still great.
2. Thomas Jefferson - He was the old time Clinton, loved the women, but he was a good President and my favorite founding father.
3. Lincoln - Leader during the Civil War, Emancipation Proclamation.

Worst 3 ever:
1. Woodrow Wilson -Had the dumbest foreign policy ever. His strategy during the treaty of Versailles was horrible. He greatly contributed to the cause of WW2.
2. Grant - Great military, lackluster politician.
3. Lyndon Johnson - Everybody knows he sucked.

Overrated Presidents in no order:
Kennedy: Although he helped further civil liberties, he almost caused WW3 with the Bay of Pigs conflict.
Reagan: His brilliant "Regonomics" pushed the Federal Deficit from $1 trillion to $3 trillion during his tenure.
Again I feel the need to defend an another president, this time Woodrow Wilson. To be fair to him, the Senate basically refused to pass any legislation dealing with peace in WWI basically because Henry Caboy Lodge did not like Wilson personally. I mean the League of Nations had even less of a chance of keeping any peace without the United States involved. Wilson really had a great vision of peace with his 14 points and although his own negotiations at Versailles may have done some bad things in retrospect(large reperations from Germany) to say he was a large cause of WWII is silly. The League of Nations, his idea, may have been fairly effective if the U.S. was in it but Lodge decided to put partisanship in front of what was probably the right thing to do for the country.

[Axxon]

I actually think that Clinton's head was "up somewhere".

So you're saying Clinton had his head up The Afoci's ass? This is indeed shocking news.

And The Afoci mistook him for Jesus?? Damned, even the most hard core Democrats wouldn't make that mistake.

[BishopMVP]

Check this out and then answer who is the worst...

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html So Bush, like most Americans didn't understand what was happening in the minutes after 9/11? I watched the first building burn for a fair amount of time and terrorism didn't even cross my mind until the second one hit. And that makes him the worst president ever? :rolleyes: If we're going to fault Presidents for not preventing an attack, why not FDR and Pearl Harbor?

[pennywisesb]

I'm not going to comment on your choices but there is some inconsistancy isn't there?

You hate Clinton because he took credit for the bush recovery but ding Hoover for the depression when he was a one term wonder.

Also, you reserve your greatest praise for president Reagan but the fall of the soviet union occured on president Bush's watch.

So, Bush gets praise for something that occured on someone elses watch but not for what occured on his while Clinton gets no credit and Hoover takes all the blame though he wasn't in office for more than a few months when the crash happened???


good point on that, let me clarify. hoover did not do nearly enough when the crash happened and because of his later ideas, the depression got worse. So i guess i stated it wrong, i would say that eventhough hoover didn't cause the crash, once it happened his policies really screwed the pooch.

as for clinton, i don't think he was out of his first year in office yet and he was already bragging about his achievements with the economy. well, as many may not know, the economy takes along time after certain fiscal policy measures to actually show signs of a boom or bust (sometimes as long as a year to two) which would mean that the actual factors attributing to said boom (in this case) most likely took place before he was in office.

touche on the reagan point, the USSR did fall under Bush Sr., but it was because of all the policies instituted by Reagan (and continued by bush) that made the fall of the berlin wall possible.

[BishopMVP]

Again I feel the need to defend an another president, this time Woodrow Wilson. To be fair to him, the Senate basically refused to pass any legislation dealing with peace in WWI basically because Henry Caboy Lodge did not like Wilson personally. I mean the League of Nations had even less of a chance of keeping any peace without the United States involved. Wilson really had a great vision of peace with his 14 points and although his own negotiations at Versailles may have done some bad things in retrospect(large reperations from Germany) to say he was a large cause of WWII is silly. The League of Nations, his idea, may have been fairly effective if the U.S. was in it but Lodge decided to put partisanship in front of what was probably the right thing to do for the country.Agreed. We were an isolationist country and thought we could stay out of Europe's affairs after WWI. We were proven wrong, but Wilson never had a chance to implement his plans.

[Axxon]

So Bush, like most Americans didn't understand what was happening in the minutes after 9/11? I watched the first building burn for a fair amount of time and terrorism didn't even cross my mind until the second one hit. And that makes him the worst president ever? :rolleyes: If we're going to fault Presidents for not preventing an attack, why not FDR and Pearl Harbor?

People still say we had intelligence that could have prevented that attack and did nothing to prevent it. I guess it goes with the territory with sneak attacks. Good example BishopMVP. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before.

[Axxon]

good point on that, let me clarify. hoover did not do nearly enough when the crash happened and because of his later ideas, the depression got worse. So i guess i stated it wrong, i would say that eventhough hoover didn't cause the crash, once it happened his policies really screwed the pooch.

as for clinton, i don't think he was out of his first year in office yet and he was already bragging about his achievements with the economy. well, as many may not know, the economy takes along time after certain fiscal policy measures to actually show signs of a boom or bust (sometimes as long as a year to two) which would mean that the actual factors attributing to said boom (in this case) most likely took place before he was in office.

touche on the reagan point, the USSR did fall under Bush Sr., but it was because of all the policies instituted by Reagan (and continued by bush) that made the fall of the berlin wall possible.

Then the economy of Reagan would be responsible for the recession of Bush which should surely temper his place in history.

As for the fall, that too was the result of many years of policy including Reagans but not exclusively because of him.

We basically outspent them, period. We'd been doing it forever and they kept foolishly trying to keep up. They had to fall sometime so to give any president credit is sorta disingenious. If you're going to do that, then might as well give it to the man whose watch it happened on, which I do. :)

[BishopMVP]

We basically outspent them, period. We'd been doing it forever and they kept foolishly trying to keep up. They had to fall sometime so to give any president credit is sorta disingenious. If you're going to do that, then might as well give it to the man whose watch it happened on, which I do. :)I think Reagan deserves some credit. When he entered office, many people urged conciliation and said his bellicose rhetoric and spend until they collapse policy was terrible and would never work. Given him all, or even most, of the credit for the Soviet collapse would be ridiculous, but I think he should get some. He recognized they were weak when many others didn't.

[Axxon]

I think Reagan deserves some credit. When he entered office, many people urged conciliation and said his bellicose rhetoric and spend until they collapse policy was terrible and would never work. Given him all, or even most, of the credit for the Soviet collapse would be ridiculous, but I think he should get some. He recognized they were weak when many others didn't.

Of course he does. I hope my post didn't sound like I was not giving him any credit because I didn't mean that. I just don't agree with him getting the liobs share and that was the reason pennywisesb called him the greatest president in his lifetime. He used the term "single handedly bringing down the Soviet Union" and that's what I took exception to.

[Schmidty]

Reading threads like this remind me why I love history so much more than current events.

[Sharpieman]

Again I feel the need to defend an another president, this time Woodrow Wilson. To be fair to him, the Senate basically refused to pass any legislation dealing with peace in WWI basically because Henry Caboy Lodge did not like Wilson personally. I mean the League of Nations had even less of a chance of keeping any peace without the United States involved. Wilson really had a great vision of peace with his 14 points and although his own negotiations at Versailles may have done some bad things in retrospect(large reperations from Germany) to say he was a large cause of WWII is silly. The League of Nations, his idea, may have been fairly effective if the U.S. was in it but Lodge decided to put partisanship in front of what was probably the right thing to do for the country.
Even with your concerns, Wilson was a horrible foriegn diplomat. That large payback from Germany was a HUGE reason why the German economy colapsed. Futhermore, the Germans became incredibly isolated with the rest of the world at this time. Wilson was so addement about the implemation of his 14 points and the implemation of the League of Nations that he allowed the French and others to increase the amount of reperations paid by Germany by extraordinary degrees. Although Wilson did not DIRECTLY contribute to the start of WW2, he DID so indirectly. Also I'm not just talking about that foriegn policy. His foreign policy towards Mexico was also very suspect.

[Blitz]

Reading threads like this remind me why I love history so much more than current events.

Agreed.

[Tigercat]

I hate it when people make personal opinions on presidents affect how effective tthey believe the administrations were. If we were to rank presidents on being great people then Jimmy Carter should be on the top of everyones lists. C'est la vie I suppose...

Anyway I haven't lived that long, I suppose I was born under Carter, but that was only a few months... So from worst presidency to first:

Jimmy Carter:Note that this is my favorite president on this list, but note how hes last on my list. Its called at least ATTEMPTING objectivity people, try it sometime! Carter's shortcommings as President are widely known, so no need to go into it.

George W. Bush: Actually don't have as negative opinion as some. I think the public elected him knowing his faults and knowing the kind of policy he would probably bring forth and he has lived up to it. Could be higher than his father if Iraq stabilizes over time and if Homeland Security Department(and/or whatever intelligence agency we may develop to monitor domestic security) prospers over the years.

George Bush:I would say he was an average president. Successes and failures are pretty well known. I do think hes a pretty cool guy personally.

Tie Reagan/Clinton: We were prosperous under both. Both saw a few minor to medium size changes to the federal government that look to stand the test of time. Both saw a major scandal. I don't agree with Reagan's politics, but you can't argue with the results of either administration. Well you could, but I won't. There was a reason that both were elected to a second term.

[tucker342]

Worst: Reagan and George W. Bush

Best: Clinton (I don't really care what he did in his bedroom)

[WussGawd]

Worst Presidents.

1. Nixon.

I am truly stunned *anybody* considers this man a good President. He and his cronies used illegal wiretaps and surveillance on a level unprecedented until 9/11 (and with a lot less justification than post-9/11, IMHO. Not to mention the WaterGate breakin (which a recent book by John Dean implies that Nixon knew about from the beginning) and subsequent cover up. Other Presidents have been inept, none have so openly broken the law and violated as many parts of the Constitution as Tricky Dick.

2. Herbert Hoover.

Hoover's response to the economic crisis that became the Great Depression? To use MacArthur and the Army to drive the indigent off of Capital Hill lawns, and to raise tariffs (yeah, that'll help trade, Herb). If Nixon was the ultimate in crooked, Herb was surely the ultimate in inept.

3. James Buchanan.

Played Pinochle while Rome burned. Presided over all but the last acts of the dissolution of the Union that culminated in the Civil War. Could easily give Hoover a run for the money in terms of ineptitude.

4. Calvin Coolidge.

Presided over the late 20's excesses that ultimately led to the 1929 Stock Market crash and the Great Depression.

5. Andrew Johnson.

After swearing to uphold Lincoln's desires for the antebellum-Union, Johnson divided it, refusing to enforce reconstruction laws, and ultimately becoming the first President ever impeached. He fell one vote shy of being convicted. JFK's book Profiles in Courage gives a stirring account of one of the Senators who wound up being the swing vote.

Dishonorable Mention: Ulysses S. Grant. Actually, Grant may not have been as bad a President as it seems. He was naturally vilified in the South because he tirelessly enforced the laws of the Radical Republicans re. Reconstruction, and much of this led to an exaggeration of his ineptitude as an administrator. If Grant suffered from any flaw, it was one common to ex-military leaders in this country, an inability to understand that his underlings might have their own agendas, and might not be as trusted as fully as a subordinate in the army could be.

Best Presidents:

1. George Washington.

He was the model of what a President should be. Noble, innovative (invented the Cabinet system, and defined a lot of what the office of President would be, within the bounds of the Constitution0, regal in bearing, he properly embodied the dignity and power (and responsibility) that the office would be. If Washington had wanted to be a dictator or king, he could have, easily. The fact that he didn't changed the world, and changed it for the better. It's not a coincidence that on his deathbed, Napoleon lamented that the French people had wanted him to be another Washington.

2. Abraham Lincoln.

Saved the country, in at least as meaningful a way as Washington helped to create it. His speeches are models for innumerable politicians that came after him, his Gettysburg Address one of the most quoted speeches in the World.

3. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Saved capitalism from itself prior to the war, provided inspirational leadership after Pearl Harbor in saving the nation and free world from Fascism in its many variants. Also took the first tentative steps toward addressing civil rights, along with his wife Eleanor.

4. Theodore Roosevelt

Arrived as President at the same time his country was first shaking itself out of isolationism and beginning to assume the mantle of great power. Like his cousin, a rich man who fought for the less fortunate, he took on trusts and corruption on many levels. Created the Food and Drug Administration, began the Panana Canal project, expanded the Navy, and many other achievements. More importantly, he gave the country a swagger and self-confidence that are a characteristic of it to this day.

5. John F Kennedy.

I have to admit, I debated #5 for a long time. Reagan, to me, was forever soiled by Iran/Contra...if it hadn't been for that, I'd have put him here in a heartbeat, even if I did hate his politics.

I think that the ink on the pages of the history books regarding Clinton is still wet, and I refuse to include a sitting President on a best/worst list regardless of whether he's an incompetent boob or not.

I went with Kennedy for one reason, and one reason alone, Civil Rights. Yes, the Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ, but it was set in motion through the acts of Kennedy. It gave us a chance to become more of the country that we promised ourselves to be in the Declaration of Independence (even if we aren't there yet), and it forever changed us, mostly for the better. I think that is enough to put him at #5.

Honorable Mention: James Earl "Jimmy" Carter. An unfortunate victim of circumstances due to a recession, the collapse of the Shah of Iran and subsequent hostage crisis, Carter had a few notable successes, particularly in foreign policy, in negotiating the Panama Canal Treaty, and particularly doing that deemed impossible with the Camp David Accords establishing a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. Also, many of the weapon systems that were rolled out during the Reagan Administration (and used in Gulf War I) were the result of Carter-era programs (Tomahawks, M-1 Abrams, Apache Helicopters, to name a few).

But I consider Carter noteworthy for his time *since* leaving office. No ex-President has used the bully pulpit quite as well. A spokesman/supporter for Habitat for Humanity, overseer of countless of third-world elections, a man of deep faith, a tireless champion of human rights, and Nobel Peace Prize Winner, all since leaving office. In many ways, in my opinion, Carter's main flaw as a President was that he was really too good a man to be President.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

reagan basically single handedly bringing down the soviet union makes him the best president of my lifetime.

I love how Reagan single handedly destroyed the Soviet Union. Nobody else in the history of the world had a single thing to do with it. Let me get this straight, The Soviet Union was THE world power, had the USA cowering for 50+ years in the shadow of the greatest power, economic and military, that this universe has ever seen. Ronald Reagan says "Mr. Gorbehhov, tear down this wall" and the Soviets decide that it would be better to dismantle their prosperous and great system than to feel the wrath of Reagan. I'm waiting to see the right-wing movie about Reagan, where he walks on water, turns wine into water, and rises from the dead three days after his demise.

Let's try to remember him as he was: a nice man who had some fucked up economic ideas (remember "Trickle-On" economics?) Let's give the rich guys all the money and they will give to the poorer guys because nobody is greedy, right?

[BishopMVP]

3. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Saved capitalism from itself prior to the war,Wouldn't you then give the credit to Bismarck and Disraeli, who implemented welfare states long before FDR came to power in the US?

[BishopMVP]

a nice man who had some fucked up economic ideas (remember "Trickle-On" economics?) Let's give the rich guys all the money and they will give to the poorer guys because nobody is greedy, right?Go blame Keynes and his stupid multiplier effect for trickle-down economics. :rolleyes:

[WussGawd]

Wouldn't you then give the credit to Bismarck and Disraeli, who implemented welfare states long before FDR came to power in the US?

Granted. Saved American capitalism from itself. Is that better?

[Axxon]

[QUOTE=WussGawd]Worst Presidents.

1. Nixon.

I am truly stunned *anybody* considers this man a good President. He and his cronies used illegal wiretaps and surveillance on a level unprecedented until 9/11 (and with a lot less justification than post-9/11, IMHO. Not to mention the WaterGate breakin (which a recent book by John Dean implies that Nixon knew about from the beginning) and subsequent cover up. Other Presidents have been inept, none have so openly broken the law and violated as many parts of the Constitution as Tricky Dick.

[QUOTE]

Civil Rights Legislation.
Ending the Vietnam war.
Detente.
Peace in the Middle East.
Relations with China.
All the President's Men.

[WussGawd]

[QUOTE=WussGawd]Worst Presidents.

1. Nixon.

I am truly stunned *anybody* considers this man a good President. He and his cronies used illegal wiretaps and surveillance on a level unprecedented until 9/11 (and with a lot less justification than post-9/11, IMHO. Not to mention the WaterGate breakin (which a recent book by John Dean implies that Nixon knew about from the beginning) and subsequent cover up. Other Presidents have been inept, none have so openly broken the law and violated as many parts of the Constitution as Tricky Dick.

[QUOTE]

Civil Rights Legislation.
Ending the Vietnam war.
Detente.
Peace in the Middle East.
Relations with China.
All the President's Men.

Civl Rights Legislation: LBJ.

Ending the Vietnam War: Actually, Nixon first tried to escalate it, then wound up having to wind it down after the release of the Pentagon Papers (and the testimony of disgruntled Vietnam Vets, such as John Kerry, among others). So really, you could make the case that Daniel Ellsberg ended the Vietnam War.

Detente: Actually the word detente was first used during the Eisenhower administration, oddly. Detente was inevitable as the pressure cooker of Vietnam wound down. Nixon is about as responsible for detente as Reagan was for the Challenger disaster.

China: OK, I'll give Nixon that one. Though I've never been as enamored of China as American businesses seem to be. I have a hard time respecting anybody who puts down peaceful demonstrations with tanks.

All the President's Men: OK, Good book, better movie, not sure Nixon would really want to take credit for the inspiration (Watergate), which he never did, publicly. Since Nixon refused to take credit for it, I'm not sure I can give it to him. :)

Regardless of foreign policy victories that did occur during his time of office, Nixon was the second biggest domestic disaster to befall this country behind only the Civil War. The country has never looked upon its government, President, or itself in the same basically optimistic way since. The deep divisions this country has today took root during Watergate. Of that I am fully convinced.

[Axxon]

Civl Rights Legislation: LBJ.

Regardless of foreign policy victories that did occur during his time of office, Nixon was the second biggest domestic disaster to befall this country behind only the Civil War. The country has never looked upon its government, President, or itself in the same basically optimistic way since. The deep divisions this country has today took root during Watergate. Of that I am fully convinced.

IMHO this is a good thing as proven by the Iran/Contra scandal. It's not necessarily a good thing to overly trust the government nor to optimistically assume they're good guys, just ask our founding fathers.

What he did was stupid and self serving and criminal but pales in comparison to Iran/Contra and his term of office was very successful before Watergate. He was elected in a landslide with no help from the breakin.

Now, on civil rights I see that you credit Kennedy and LBJ but not Eisenhower, who pushed the first civil rights legislation against the wishes of the southern democrats who later would become republicans. Eisenhower AND Nixon. I think his track record on civil rights is pretty clear and having read his writing, it's clear that he felt strongly on the issue, pushed for a stronger bill in 57 than was politically possible and continued to support it through his term in office.

This one may well be a push.

Oh, you forgot the middle east too. :)

[Fritz]

Since I am not going to get the time to write what I think about LBJ all at once....

A lot of folks give LBJ credit for civil rights, but I have quite the opposite opinion. There was already a movement in country for civil rights. The movement had momentum. What the Johnson admistration did was emasculate that movement and replace it with a Federal system. In my opinion this has created a structure of perpetual segregation. For political gain LBJ gave people water fountains and bathrooms but drove what appears do be a perpetual wedge between people.

[Fritz]

Dola

I would offer that the nations attitude on what a president is allowed to do changed during the Nixon administration, but before watergate. Watergate itself was not so different than things other presidents had done, but the rules had changed and Nixon payed the price for not figuring it out soon enough.

[Scarecrow]

Just so I show no party affiliation:

Best Lifetime
R: Ronald Reagan / Richard Nixon (tie)
D: William Clinton

Best All-Time
r: Thomas Jefferson (note small 'r' due to his stance as a 'republic'an as opposed to a federalists)
D: Harry S. Truman

Worst Lifetime
R: Gerald Ford
D: Jimmy Carter

Worst All-Time
R: Warren Harding
D: James Buchannon

EDIT: called Andrew Johnson a republican. Replaced with Harding.

[Scarecrow]

Worst Presidents.

1. Nixon.

I am truly stunned *anybody* considers this man a good President. He and his cronies used illegal wiretaps and surveillance on a level unprecedented until 9/11 (and with a lot less justification than post-9/11, IMHO. Not to mention the WaterGate breakin (which a recent book by John Dean implies that Nixon knew about from the beginning) and subsequent cover up. Other Presidents have been inept, none have so openly broken the law and violated as many parts of the Constitution as Tricky Dick.


Civil Rights Legislation.
Ending the Vietnam war.
Detente.
Peace in the Middle East.
Relations with China.
All the President's Men.
Axxon, you forgot the elimination of the gold standard. Which, in turn, made the dollar the new standard and made the US the financial 'superpower'.

[clintl]

Just so I show no party affiliation:

Best Lifetime
R: Ronald Reagan / Richard Nixon (tie)
D: William Clinton

Best All-Time
r: Thomas Jefferson (note small 'r' due to his stance as a 'republic'an as opposed to a federalists)
D: Harry S. Truman

Worst Lifetime
R: Gerald Ford
D: Jimmy Carter

Worst All-Time
R: Andrew Johnson
D: James Buchannon

Andrew Johnson was a Democrat.

Nixon was a terrible president, not just for his pathological corruption and paranoia, but also for his manipulations of the short-term economy to secure his re-election, which ended up wrecking the US economy for a decade. I don't think there has been anyone in US history who did so much harm to the country for purely personal political goals. Ford and Carter weren't good presidents, but both were dealt a very bad hand by Nixon.

[mgadfly]

I think Reagan deserves some credit. When he entered office, many people urged conciliation and said his bellicose rhetoric and spend until they collapse policy was terrible and would never work. Given him all, or even most, of the credit for the Soviet collapse would be ridiculous, but I think he should get some. He recognized they were weak when many others didn't.

Of course Reagan deserves some credit, but his detractors that said we couldn't do it his way were right. They said deficit spending to such a degree would send us into a recession. It happened, it just cost Bush his job rather than Reagan.

I once wrote a paper that compared Reagan's policies and the effects of those policies with our private industry (I used Bill Gates in the title, but the article was much more about the advancement in computer technology during the 70s) advancements that put pressure on the Soviet Union. In the 60s the Soviets decided to disband their computer technology program in order to shift spending to compete with the United States in other areas. That decision, 14 years before Reagan made it into office, had much more to do with their problems than Reagan's spending.

By the late 70s the Soviets were trying to improve their computers by taking apart the latest Apple computers, and then putting them back together to see if they could make immitations. They did, but they took 5 times as long and cost 300% more than the Western versions. While the United States was suffering through Carter's presidency (I think he gets blamed for a lot that he couldn't do anything about) the Soviet congress met and made the #1 priority to provide every soviet citizen with ... in-door plumbing. That's how far behind they were, before Reagan spending.

The Soviets were done, and Reagan deserves some credit for finishing them off (in part by arming Bin Laden), but even if his policies were not implemented the Soviet Union wouldn't have lasted.

Who deserves the most credit is the Soviet Union's first college educated leader, for recognizing the problems and choosing not to use the army to suppress popular demand for change (which would probably have worked).

[Warhammer]

My $.02

Best President in my life time:
1) Reagan - Say what you will about his policies, but he accomplished a few things:

1. He oversaw the greatest economic boom in history.
2. He accomplished this by reducing the tax burden of the rich which was over 50% at the time.
3. His push for a strong military stand against the Soviets led to the fall of the Soviet Empire.
4. The increase in deficit spending was because congress refused to curb spending (remember Congress writes the budget with the President's advice regarding what he will sign)

2) Bush I - Many people forget items that happened during his presidency. He tried to balance the budget, but Congress betrayed him and he got hammered for it in the 92 presidential race. He increased American involvement in the Middle East by freeing Kuwait from Iraq. The economic downturn was not entirely his fault.

3) Bush II - Will probably move higher, but much of his rating will depend on his Bush doctrine and how that affects world affairs. His domestic policy has been better than what the media would have you believe. The economy is turning around due to the tax cut, and should help the government increase their tax revenues. I strongly disagree with his domestic spending policies.

4) Clinton - Hate to rate him this high, but he belongs here. The main things he did right, were the things he did not do. Was unable to pass a national heath care plan, and did not go nuts on spending. His tax increases in his second term led to the economic malaise at the end of his presidency.

5) Ford - Did not do much, but that was what the company needed after the Watergate scandal.

6) Carter - As mentioned by other posters, his shortcomings were many. However, he was probably too good of a man to be a good president.

All time Best:
1) Lincoln - Was able to preserve the Union.
2) Washington - Was able to get the country started, and laid a high standard for all subsequent presidents.
3) Truman - Had the courage to drop the A-bomb on Japan, ending the war, and saving the lives of thousands of US troops.
4) Teddy Roosevelt - Took on the corporations and monopolies that were "evil" at the time. Also, walked tall and carried a big stick on the international scene. This was the beginning of the US playing a prominent role in international affairs.
5) Jefferson - If for nothing else, the Louisiana Purchase paved the way for American greatness in the years to come.

Worst:
1) Buchanan - A do nothing who did nothing to try to fight the ills of the country in his time.
2) Harding - Probably the most corrupt presidency of them all.
3) Pierce - See Buchanan
4) Grant - Great General, poor president
5) FDR - I know many people will scratch their heads on this one. His ideas for the New Deal were ripped off from Hoover (who did not go far enough to prime the pump). Only WWII enabled the economy to get on the right track. His domestic agenda put the US on the path to the Socialist state we are on now.

[cody8200]

You guys are killing me with you dislike of LBJ. The most under rated president in the last 50 years. This guys single handedly pushed the Civil Rights act through. This was something Eisenhower was too afraid to do. Johnson stood up for what he believed was right. He created programs for the poor and helped bulk up education. As far as Woodrow Wilson being one of the worst I couldn't disagree more. Since I doubt any of us were actually alive during his presidency none of us can possibly hate him personally. Go look up his accomplishments and you'll find that he had many.

Best in my lifetime: Regan
Worst: Clinton (Wouldnt take a stand against anything. Whatever was best for him and his reelection was what he went with)

Overall best:
Lincoln. It's cliche but he was a great man and a great Presdient. Not to mention he was born in my home state of Indiana...Illinois-Home of Lincoln...my ass.

Harding. The man was a Clinton of his day, only the economy sucked with him. Him and his Ohio gang were more like the mafia than a government.

[Butter]

4) Teddy Roosevelt - Took on the corporations and monopolies that were "evil" at the time.

Yes... "at the time."

[The Afoci]

So you're saying Clinton had his head up The Afoci's ass? This is indeed shocking news.

And The Afoci mistook him for Jesus?? Damned, even the most hard core Democrats wouldn't make that mistake.

I never mistook Clinton for Jesus. I mean Jesus gets head from much prettier girls.

[Mustang]

Best - Harrison

If only all politicians would be in office a month before dying...

[ISiddiqui]

In MY lifetime (I'm 23)

Best:
Ronald Reagan

Worst:
George W. Bush (shows how much Bush is pissing off right-wingers, eh? ;))

All time:

Best:
1. Thomas Jefferson
2. Teddy Roosevelt
3. Franklin Roosevelt / Ronald Reagan (based on what day it is ;))

Worst:
1. Warren Harding
2. Woodrow Wilson
3. John Kennedy

edit: Jimmy Carter is 4th worst, btw (since I technically included 4 in the best column).

[ISiddiqui]

They said deficit spending to such a degree would send us into a recession. It happened, it just cost Bush his job rather than Reagan.

You have heard of this concept called the business cycle, have you not? :D

To be fair to him, the Senate basically refused to pass any legislation dealing with peace in WWI basically because Henry Caboy Lodge did not like Wilson personally. I mean the League of Nations had even less of a chance of keeping any peace without the United States involved. Wilson really had a great vision of peace with his 14 points and although his own negotiations at Versailles may have done some bad things in retrospect(large reperations from Germany) to say he was a large cause of WWII is silly. The League of Nations, his idea, may have been fairly effective if the U.S. was in it but Lodge decided to put partisanship in front of what was probably the right thing to do for the country.

Actually the MAIN reason the League never passed is because Wilson brought NO Republicans to the peace talks with him (he brought a bunch of Democrat Senators), which was a slap in the face to the Republicans. So the Republicans put a lot of amendments on the bill to say that they too should be credited for the League. These amendments would not have harmed the admission in ANY way. Wilson was a stubborn fool who was really pretty idiotic on this.

And yes, Wilson should share some blame for WW2. For all the niceness of his 14 points, he abandoned EVERY SINGLE ONE for his League and then f'ed that up by his political idiocy.

Wilson was the pits. That's not even mentioning his horrible racism.

--

Oh, and I quite think Nixon was a good President, especially for his foriegn policy. His policy with China puts him on the above average list by itself.

[clintl]

Since no one else is, I'll make the case for Buchanan as the worst ever. Not only did the nation come to the brink of disintegration during his presidency, but he was so bad that he not only wasn't renominated by his party, he left it divided and in such shambles that it lost an election it probably would have won had it not split. How much more of a complete loser can a president be? No one else in US history has left office with the country is such peril as Buchanan did.

[Daimyo]

I'd say the worst in my lifetime is easily Dubya. Best is probably Bush Sr. or Clinton... (born in '78).

Worst all-time I'd say Andrew Jackson or Harding.

I know its not fair to blame Bush, Jr. for all the bad things that have occured in the last four years, but I don't think its entirely coicidence either. Of course, I don't think things would have been much better with Gore in office... Too bad we can't get a mulligan on that whole presidential race...

[ISiddiqui]

Worst all-time I'd say Andrew Jackson or Harding.

Andrew Jackson? You have Native American blood in you or something? ;)

Old Hickory may not have been the best, but I don't see Worst All Time.

[Tigercat]

I think the various opinions on Nixon is the most interesting part of this thread. Its easy to point to his terrible character flaws to label him a crooked guy, but judging his presidency is quite a bit tougher. I think Nixon is a man who truly could have been great, too bad he pulled himself down.

One president you never see mentioned bad or good: Eisenhower. I think hes a better president than most intellectuals will ever give him credit for.

[Glengoyne]

I don't think a president can really do a whole lot to possitively affect the economy. I believe it is a cyclical phenomenon, and the Federal Reserve Board has far more potential to make a difference in the economy.

In my lifetime, I'd say Reagan really has to be considered the best. I still can't believe he called the Soviet Union the "Evil Empire", and said "Mr. Gorbachev(sp?) Tear Down Your Wall!". Both of those moments took me completely by surprise, and now serve as defining moments in Cold War history.

Nixon when you weigh the good and the bad, still comes out substantialy in the possitive. If not for Watergate, he likely tops this list. Then again the more I think about Watergate, and his handling of it, the faster his score drops. In fact thinking of it has lowered Reagan's score, because it made me think of Bork.

L.B.J Another guy with pluses and minuses. He got things accomplished, some good, some bad.

Clinton: He was a do little president. He intervened in Kosovo, I liked that. He abandoned Somalia after going in half assed. I didn't like that. He ignored the genocide in Rawanda, but then again I don't think there was any long list of players here in the U.S. that would have been for intervention. He was blessed with serving during the biggest Economic Boom in recent history(all-time?). I give him bonus points for the economy, but his character issues counter balance those. I think the best thing you can say about him is that he did no harm.

Bush G. W. I actually love his stance on the war on terror, as in "You are with us, or you are with the terrorists". I am all for the tax cuts, and continue to mock those who proclaim they unfairly benefit the rich. I was 100% in favor of removing Saddam from power in Iraq, and didn't need a WMD threat to feel that way. I wish he hadn't decided to make WMD the poster boy for war in Iraq. He loses points for not really having a plan to deal with Iraq after the fall of Saddam. He also loses points when I look at the man-power in Iraq versus the man-power in Afghanistan. We should have learned how to rebuild a nation as a democracy in Afghanistan, and then put that knowledge to work in Iraq. He might actually move up on the list, but it is too soon to know. I absolutely believe G.W. is a better man than Bill Clinton, but Clinton was certainly more of a leader. He just didn't go anywhere.

George H.W. Bush: He intervened in Kuwait, but cared more about maintaining a coalition than getting the job done. He also loses points by abandoning the Kurds and the Shiites. He was unfortunate to have served during a relatively recession. He does earn points for making the hard decision to go back on his word regarding taxes when it became apparent to him that something had to be done. He loses those points for going back on a campaign promise, well at least making that particular one.

Carter: I like him as an individual, but he really shouldn't have been president.

Ford: So little time, So little to say. He was ineffective to the extent that Carter was elected.

[SFL Cat]

During my life:

Best: Reagan. His tax cuts jump-started a stagnant economy (which I really think Nixon's domestic policies brought about and Ford and Carter continued) and along with swift advances in technology started a boom that has been steaming along now for the past couple of decades (with the exception of a couple of mild cyclical recessions). You can scream all you want about deficit spending, but if you look at the U.S. Treasury's take, it substantially increased AFTER Reagan's tax cuts. Unfortunately, Congressional spending was still able to outpace collections in the federal kitty. With every liberal screaming at the top of his lungs that pacifying the Soviet Union was the only possible sane foreign policy, Reagan recognized that the Evil Empire could be had, and implemented aggressive policies (modernizing our military and weapons) that the Soviet economic system simply couldn't match. Reagan was a gifted orator whose optimistic rhetoric about American values and virtues made it cool to be patriotic again.

Worst: Clinton. I doubt the man took a piss without first taking an opinion poll. Inherited a rebounding economy, but his botched attempt to socialize U.S. medicine resulted in the Democrats losing their iron-grip of control on both Houses of Congress for the first time in over 40 years (I still remember the shocked looks on Sam Donaldson's and Cokie Roberts' faces as they watched the Democrats fall from power during the midterm elections). To Clinton's credit, he was able to move to the middle, and take credit for signing into law such Republican-led legislation as NAFTA (which I don't think a single Dem in the Senate voted for), Welfare Reform, and the Balanced Budget -- while at the same time demonizing Republicans for "trying to starve our kids."

So many scandals. You can argue partisan witch-hunts, which may be true to some extent...but Clinton's funny money and ethical lapses provided lots of ammunition. The second sitting president to be impeached is not a mark of honor on any resume.

Clinton's foreign policy...laughable. Tied the hands of our intelligence agencies, which resulted in a serious degradation of our overseas human intel. Didn't really respond after the first World Trade Center bombing, the Embassy bombings in Africa, or the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole -- which I think emboldened Al Qaida to plan for more grandiose attacks (i.e. 9/11). Cutting and running from thugs in Somalia was a big mistake, and speaking of non-Iraqi quagmires...why are we still in Kosovo all these years later?

What is really disturbing is the funny campaign money with Chinese connections, especially in light of all the successful espionage (stealing of our missile technologies) China pulled off against us during Clinton's watch. In 10-15 years, we may be facing another ICBM arms race...this time with the Chinese.

BTW, if our economy now is so bad, and Clinton's was so good when he was running for re-election...how can it be that the unemployment rates are at the same levels(around 5%) and interest rates now are even lower than they were then?