Any Puresim talk?

[McSweeny]

I haven't been following the development with Puresim at all and i was just wondering if anyone has been doing the paid beta. I've been considering OOTP6 for awhile now, but something about it has kept me from reaching for my wallet. How does Puresime stack up? I think i recall most of the problems with it in the past were a clunky interface and sluggish performance. But from what i've gathered, Shaun has a very solid approach to creating a baseball textsim.

so maybe we could turn this thread into the Puresim discussion thread?

[The_herd]

My biggest gripe was the really slow sim times. Using points instead of money was a bigger problem for me than the interface. The game always felt a lot more like baseball than OOTP to me, but it will be interesting to see how things stack up with OOTP 6. I've always liked puresim, so I'm excited to see how this version turns out.

[sovereignstar]

I think i recall most of the problems with it in the past were a clunky interface and sluggish performance.
Sluggish performance, yes. Clunky interface, definitely not.

Personally, I thought the IE-like interface was marvelous.

[JimboJ]

I'm doing the beta for Puresim, and I had the same complaints about the interface and game speed of previous versions. Both of these are improved in the 2004 version. Simming games is somewhat faster, and the in-game interface is more like OOTP now. And you can use real ballpark photo backgrounds in the game. That ugly pale blue interface is gone! But the thing I really like is that Shaun has taken our suggestions and added more in-game mager options, like hit and run, intentional walks, infield in, guard lines etc.

As of right now, the beta is very stable. Except for a problem with the end of season awards, there really are no major bugs. The GM AI and in-game manager AI is very solid so far, as are the stats. Another nice feature is the game now has an editable XML file that you can tweak to make minor adjustments in the play results.

Overall, Puresim is still not as robust and customizable as OOTP, but what is there works very well. I think this version of the game has the potential to be better than OOTP 6.

[sovereignstar]

and the in-game interface is more like OOTP now.
See, I don't understand this. I absolutely loathe OOTP's interface. Would someone care to elaborate what is so attractive about the OOTP interface?

Different strokes for different folks.

[sabotai]

See, I don't understand this. I absolutely loathe OOTP's interface. Would someone care to elaborate what is so attractive about the OOTP interface?

Different strokes for different folks.

Not in the beta (yet), but from the screenshots, I think all he means is that it uses a conventional menu (along the top), you can right-click on players, etc. etc. Not that the feel and look of it is neccisarily OOTP-like.

[JimboJ]

I was referring to the in-game interface, since I play out all my games, and that is what I'm using 90% of the time. Here's an early screen shot. All the player names are hyperlinked, so when you click on them, it opens up the player's scouting report. BTW, that ugly scoreboard font has been changed, and all the information boxes are movable.

http://www.puresim.com/2k49.jpg

[sovereignstar]

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[Bubba Wheels]

Yikes! This thing looks great!

[MizzouRah]

I think this version of the game has the potential to be better than OOTP 6.
That's a pretty strong statement. How does the computer AI stack up? Meaning: How do the depth charts and defensive alignments for CPU teams look? Are there waivers, 40 man rosters, rule V draft, etc?

I've also read the trading module is suspect thus far? I really want to like this game - solo play is its main attraction, but the forum isn't telling me anything I haven't read since version 2003.


Todd<!-- / message -->

[Karim]

Are there waivers, 40 man rosters, rule V draft, etc?
I believe it was Shaun's intention to implement these.

[JimboJ]

I believe it was Shaun's intention to implement these.

None of these are in the game, and I am glad they're not. Remember Puresim is not meant to be a simulation of MLB. Its a solo game that is best suited for fictional leagues. You can get an approximation of the the major leagues, but if you want really want to simulate that, then you should probably stick with OOTP. I'm sure Shaun will continue to add more options, but remember this game is in its third version, while OOTP is in its sixth.

To answer MizzouRah's question, the computer AI is very good. The CPU lineups, rotations, and depth charts all make sense. The trade AI has been tweaked over the last few betas, and I think it is now very solid.

As I said before, Puresim doesn't have all the features and customization of OOTP, but as far as a simulation of the game of baseball, it does a VERY good job.

[Philliesfan980]

None of these are in the game, and I am glad they're not. Remember Puresim is not meant to be a simulation of MLB. Its a solo game that is best suited for fictional leagues. You can get an approximation of the the major leagues, but if you want really want to simulate that, then you should probably stick with OOTP. I'm sure Shaun will continue to add more options, but remember this game is in its third version, while OOTP is in its sixth.

To answer MizzouRah's question, the computer AI is very good. The CPU lineups, rotations, and depth charts all make sense. The trade AI has been tweaked over the last few betas, and I think it is now very solid.

As I said before, Puresim doesn't have all the features and customization of OOTP, but as far as a simulation of the game of baseball, it does a VERY good job.


Thats good that they are different in some ways. It seems like some of the outcomes in OOTP make my head scratch. So what you're saying that PureSim has a better in game sim engine?

[MizzouRah]

Thanks for the answers JimboJ.

It's obvious Puresim caters to solo players and when I start hearing more like JimboJ is saying I'll start to delve into Puresim for more than just reading the message board and looking at screenshots. With Puresim, I don't care about MLB rosters... I want a good fictional league to get into. Please, give us some more to throw around!


Todd

[lynchjm24]

Using points instead of money was a bigger problem for me than the interface.
It doesn't use points anymore - it uses dollars now.

[Galaril]

How is this is it worthy getting ?Better than ootp 6, especially for single player?

[Galaril]

When is this coming out end of month?

[HighandOutside]

Does puresim use a DIPS game engine...? If not, do the k, bb, Hr frequencies look ok.

[Galaril]

that's a good question

[BigPitt]

dips will die a quiety death before it infects puresim.

[lynchjm24]

dips will die a quiety death before it infects puresim.

Yeah, I'd hate to see reality seep into text sims.

It doesn't use a 'DIPS' engine.

You can control BB/K/H/HR rates using the XML.

If you are going to buy it at the end of the month, you might as well buy it now and save $5, the final product isn't going to be much different then the BETA is now.

It's different then OOTP. I like it a lot, some others don't. It's a much better game if you have a top end machine if you are going to try and play a 30 team league.

I use Puresim to play fictional leagues and OOTP for an online league and an MLB-like league. They are both fun and really inexpensive when you get right down to it.

I like in Puresim that I can tweak about a million things in the XML, I've yet to create the 'perfect' league - but I've gotten close in the past.

[Philliesfan980]

Yeah, I'd hate to see reality seep into text sims.

It doesn't use a 'DIPS' engine.

You can control BB/K/H/HR rates using the XML.

If you are going to buy it at the end of the month, you might as well buy it now and save $5, the final product isn't going to be much different then the BETA is now.

It's different then OOTP. I like it a lot, some others don't. It's a much better game if you have a top end machine if you are going to try and play a 30 team league.

I use Puresim to play fictional leagues and OOTP for an online league and an MLB-like league. They are both fun and really inexpensive when you get right down to it.

I like in Puresim that I can tweak about a million things in the XML, I've yet to create the 'perfect' league - but I've gotten close in the past.

Is it safe to conclude that Puresim handles the "game of baseball" better, while OOTP is better with career leagues?

[FBPro]

Is it safe to conclude that Puresim handles the "game of baseball" better, while OOTP is better with career leagues?


Opinion is all it is, I don't feel like it does. But some would say so I'm certain.

[lynchjm24]

Is it safe to conclude that Puresim handles the "game of baseball" better, while OOTP is better with career leagues?

I think they both do a pretty good job. Both feel like baseball to me and both are fun. But, to be honest, I'm a little disappointed in both games right now.

OOTP just doesn't even give an inkling of a challenge in solo play. Throw in the fact that the boards have degenerated to the point of being unreadable and I'm just not into it right now.

In a perfect world they could combine the games.

Puresim 2004 is very similar to the last version, except that Joe Stallings did a really nice job on the interface. Last word from Shaun was an improved almanac was coming - which would be a much needed addition.

If just one of them could figure out the minor leagues and the draft I'd be happy - but I'm not holding my breath. The OOTP draft has gotten so pathetically bad I want to skip it half the time. Maybe it will be better with the patch, but who knows.

[Mota]

It's probably due to all the wrestling fanboys coming for TEW.

I really enjoy the game, but the general quality of posters in the forum is abysmally low. Either the pics in their sigs are about 5x the size of their posts, or they post "Rate My Card! Steve Austin vs. Rock, how good is this?".

[JimboJ]

Is it safe to conclude that Puresim handles the "game of baseball" better, while OOTP is better with career leagues?

They are both good for career leagues. I woud agree that Puresim handles the game of baseball better, while OOTP is a good sim of Major League Baseball.

[HighandOutside]

Gosh, as a long time Diamond Mind Baseball snob, I must say that I am really enjoying OOTP. I followed the Puresim project for awhile and I wanted to hate OOTP, but I just don't see the horrible shortcomings in how it "handles the game of baseball". A fictional league is completely absorbing and some poor PBP can be overlooked by appreciating the strength of the DIPS game engine.

[ScottVib]

It's probably due to all the wrestling fanboys coming for TEW.

I really enjoy the game, but the general quality of posters in the forum is abysmally low. Either the pics in their sigs are about 5x the size of their posts, or they post "Rate My Card! Steve Austin vs. Rock, how good is this?".
OOTP and TEW are made by seperate companies and have seperate forums.

[Schedule Junkie]

I like in Puresim that I can tweak about a million things in the XML... This is good, but where is there some sort of extensive manual detailing how this actually works? I remember looking around for something out of curiosity but never found very much. A little direction on all the options and possibilities is helpful. ;)

Two things for me are dealbreakers:

First, in PureSim one is stuck with the same size of fictional league for its entire history. I really, really hate that kind of restriction. I want to be able to grow my fictional league in any way I want - add teams, contract teams, add divisions, realign teams, and so forth. Without this I'm not interested. Now, I do recall reading that Shaun was considering trying to add some sort of expansion to the game. If that happens, that would be excellent. But the bottom line is I want flexibility when it comes to how I set up and organize/reorganize my fictional leagues.

Second, a schedule importer/exporter. OOTP6 added this feature, and although the fields included in the generated CSV files are rather sparse, it is still a huge help. Already there have been a ton of schedules, both completely fictional and actual MLB ones, posted on the OOTP forums for folks to use in their leagues. Being able to do this eliminates once and for all the complaints over poor game-generated schedules.

I don't believe there is any talk of adding a schedule importer/exporter to PureSim. It's an excellent option though and worthy of being added.

A related aspect to this is PureSim inability to handle doubleheaders. OOTP6 does handle them, though still with a few tiny problems; PureSim however has no facility to do them at all. This is unfortunate, since the lack of doubleheaders prevents the use of real MLB or minor league schedules in the game. Most baseball fans today probably have no idea of this, but the scheduled doubleheader (that is, planned from before the season even began) was a BIG part of baseball for over 50 years. So, without twin bills, a great many real-world schedules couldn't be used in the game, and a managerial challenge that real managers had to face for many years isn't there.

As someone who has invested a lot of time making a digital version of every MLB schedule, and now is working on doing the same for many minor leagues, schedules are an important part of any baseball sim game (and one too often overlooked).

I did send Shaun the entire set of MLB schedules I have, in case he decides to include them directly in the game for those doing historical replays using the Lahman Database. I've not heard back on that, so I expect something like this won't be happening for this version of PureSim at any rate.

[Glengoyne]

Two things for me are dealbreakers:

Your first Deal breaker I just don't see. It doesn't sound like you want a fictional league. It sounds like you want to correlate your league with historical expansions. IMO, for a fictional league you don't want expansion. I want my league to remain the same throughout the life of my dynasty. I think the ability to tweak the league structure would be nice, but not anywhere close to a dealbreaker. For myself I have played with countless leagues, many of them for 50 plus seasons, and had no trouble getting sucked into any of them. More sucked in than any other text sim, save CM. So I would see this as a bonus feature, that would be nice to have. Perhaps for a follow up version.

Your second one is more valid, but really I have a bigger problem with the fact that double headers aren't even possible, than with my inability to load a custom schedule. I especially understand this point coming from a "schedule junkie", and actually do think this would be a nice feature to add. I wonder if Shawn could use the same format that OOTP uses? Well he probably wouldn't out of respect for OOTP. In fact the more I think about this feature, the more I think this would be nice to have. It is also almost certainly easier to implement than double headers as well.

[FBPro]

A fictional league is what you want to make it and adding teams or removing teams can all be part of a person's vision for their league and doesn't mean that they are following any other league setup or history.

[Joe Canadian]

For whatever reason a compeltly forgot about the new PureSim since Shaun left .400, thanks to this thread I'll shcek it out again!

[Galaril]

Are the ratings based on real stats or totally random.I know it doesn't have MLB license so no real player names but is it like OOTP 6?For example is there a team that corresponds to say the Red Sox players characteristics/attributes but just with fictional names.So, do the yankees or the New york team have a good hitting team with power and the Boston team(equivalent) has good pitchers as in real life?Thanks.

[Schedule Junkie]

A fictional league is what you want to make it and adding teams or removing teams can all be part of a person's vision for their league and doesn't mean that they are following any other league setup or history. Yes, exactly.

After all, how many pro sports leagues have remained perfectly static in their structure throughout their history? I'd say remaining static and unchanging takes away from the feeling that one's fictional league is a real world. Besides, a lot of the fun is just making up how you want your league to grow, and it can be inspired by any number of things.

Such league flexibility need not encompass every conceivable possibility, but it ought to at least give the player some room to change things around.

Of course, having this league structure flexibility is also a huge benefit for those doing historical leagues as well.

[RandyChase]

Shaun posted earlier today that expansion was in progress... Expect we'll know more about how he handles it when the next beta release rolls out later this week.

[Karim]

A few questions to those involved with the beta:

1) Is anyone using the reduced roster set? Do AI GMs handle it correctly?

2) Is the pinch hitting AI finally working properly? The last version I played had problems here.

3) Is the default XML working well? Although it does provide flexibility, it's a lot of work to make adjustments.

4) Regarding the ballpark editor, is it fairly easy to set up correct ballparks? The screen shot looked confusing as did a post at the message board.

5) Are there any player personalities in this game? Do they react to contract negotiations, promotions/demotions and playing time?

6) What is the main difference between PureSim 2004 and OOTP6?

Thanks.

[lynchjm24]

A few questions to those involved with the beta:

1) Is anyone using the reduced roster set? Do AI GMs handle it correctly?

2) Is the pinch hitting AI finally working properly? The last version I played had problems here.

3) Is the default XML working well? Although it does provide flexibility, it's a lot of work to make adjustments.

4) Regarding the ballpark editor, is it fairly easy to set up correct ballparks? The screen shot looked confusing as did a post at the message board.

5) Are there any player personalities in this game? Do they react to contract negotiations, promotions/demotions and playing time?

6) What is the main difference between PureSim 2004 and OOTP6?

Thanks.

1. Yes. Don't know really, haven't noticed any difference.
2. Haven't noticed :) (i'm a lot of help)
3. It's not bad.
4. I think it's pretty easy, there is a whole pack of stadiums to download and then you just extract them.
5. There is a limited 'happy to unhappy' rainbow that effects how they play. Why they get happy or unhappy, I'm not sure.... you can change how big of an effect it has in the XML though.
6. Pretty much the difference between PS 2003 and OOTP5.

[MizzouRah]

Just read this over at Puresim:

OK, I finished the expansion draft this morning. The way it works is based on a number of factors, there is a chance that your association will expand after a season. You are notified of this and then are given a chance to "protect" players by putting them on your major league roster. The expansion draft is then processed and the new teams can pluck up to 5 players from each team's minor league roster.

After the expansion draft, you are presented with a report that details the picks and then the post-expansion free agent draft takes place, where teams that lost players due to expansion can fill out their rosters.

Its actually pretty cool. Do you guys think 5 player max is too small? Should I allow 8 or 10? Or unlimited?
This is something that has me interested. It's a break from the norm in a baseball sim and since I would use fictional players in Puresim... I'm intrigued by this feature. Anyone playing with beta 11 yet?

There's also going to be a 7 day FREE trial later this week if #11 goes well in terms of stability. (per Shaun)

Todd

[MizzouRah]

*bump* for some Puresim thoughts...

[Zippo]

cool, I am for sure checking this out when the free trial starts.

[lynchjm24]

Just read this over at Puresim:

This is something that has me interested. It's a break from the norm in a baseball sim and since I would use fictional players in Puresim... I'm intrigued by this feature. Anyone playing with beta 11 yet?

There's also going to be a 7 day FREE trial later this week if #11 goes well in terms of stability. (per Shaun)

Todd

I played with Beta 11 for about 4 hours last night. My association didn't expand though, so I can't tell you about the feature.

It's a pretty solid game, I would highly recommend the free trial if you haven't tried it before.

Joe Stallings' contribution was tremendous.

[MizzouRah]

Joe Stallings' contribution was tremendous.
That's good to hear. I knew since Franchise baseball was going on Joe could do excellent work!

I'm definitly giving it a try when the free trial comes out. Most more when you get a chance.


Thanks,

Todd

[Zippo]

I played with Beta 11 for about 4 hours last night. My association didn't expand though, so I can't tell you about the feature.

It's a pretty solid game, I would highly recommend the free trial if you haven't tried it before.

Joe Stallings' contribution was tremendous.


where do we download the free trial? and how long does it last?

[MizzouRah]

where do we download the free trial? and how long does it last?
It's not up yet. He's still working on a few beta 11 bugs/tweaks and most of all feedback from the beta testers.


Todd

[lynchjm24]

where do we download the free trial? and how long does it last?


Puresim.com is where you'll find it when it's available.

I'm going to take a wild stab and say that the 7-day demo will last in the neighborhood of 7 days.