To sell or not to sell...

[Qwikshot]

I have been getting slaughtered, I blame my 3-4-3. Trouble is I have so many potential strikers that I can't stop playing them. However, one of them needs to go so I can play a 3-5-2 in league matches and 3-4-3 in cup/friendlies.

Here's the list:

Óscar Alvarez
1 468 000 US$, 20 years, passable form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities [Head]

Stamina: excellent Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: passable
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: brilliant Set Pieces: inadequate

Branko Manenica
547 000 US$, 19 years, solid form
Has wretched experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: wretched Defending: poor
Scoring: outstanding Set Pieces: poor

Tudor Lazãr
435 000 US$, 18 years, solid form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: weak Passing: poor
Winger: poor Defending: passable
Scoring: outstanding Set Pieces: poor

Erick Weller
361 000 US$, 19 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities [Quick]

Stamina: weak Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: inadequate
Winger: wretched Defending: passable
Scoring: formidable Set Pieces: poor

Ülar Siil
86 000 US$, 17 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: inadequate Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: poor
Scoring: solid Set Pieces: poor

Waylon Moore
80 000 US$, 17 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: wretched Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: poor Passing: poor
Winger: weak Defending: wretched
Scoring: formidable Set Pieces: poor


Best guess is Weller who has not progressed as fast as I liked...but I could also sell Alvarez in hopes of getting a decent U-20. Thoughts?

My midfield is pretty strong (all excellents), I am hurting on defense (solid def and solid goal). I play winger to mid with a passable and inadequate wingers with high stamina and excellent midfield (that's the plan for next year any way though I do have an inadequate playmaking, formidable winger).

Any comments let me know,
thanks

[Masked]

I'll buy Oscar if you sell him (and someone buys my brilliant PM)

[damnMikeBrown]

Clearly you need to sell Alvarez & Manenica to drum up some funds to buy Miller. . .

Ok, seriously though. If Alvarez is a fresh pop, I'd move him. He's a really great player, and his passable passing secondary will bring a high premium on the market now.

[Masked]

Since you already use 3 IMs in your 3-5-2, adding an extra winger towards middle won't give you enough of a boost to offset losing a third of your attack. You just need to upgrade you IMs. You can get an outstanding with no secondaries for under 1.5M. Losing one training spot a week will hurt you long term, and will not help a lot right now.

[Qwikshot]

Since you already use 3 IMs in your 3-5-2, adding an extra winger towards middle won't give you enough of a boost to offset losing a third of your attack. You just need to upgrade you IMs. You can get an outstanding with no secondaries for under 1.5M. Losing one training spot a week will hurt you long term, and will not help a lot right now.

That is possible, but I am in the toughest division in Five. I feel the 3-5-2 with two high stamina/high playmaking wingers (towards mid) will help me control the midfield and possession and thus my two top strikers can convert any chances (defense in this division is weak save one team).

Alvarez is up for sale, he's expensive as I really don't want to part with him. Weller is up for sale too as well as some other players I have no interested in keeping.

As for losing one training slot, again, I realize I am reducing profitibility but you can't win the division with a 3-4-3 unless I seriously upgrade and with a div5 team that is a financial strain that I don't think I can afford unless I switch to PM training (which I don't want to do). I have to balance competitiveness with a healthy youth movement.

I cannot even think that I can successfully continue in the division unless I hold to a 3-4-3 and a 3-5-2 but you can go over to my division and look v.56

I think I'll upgrade at goal, u-20 striker, coach, and stadium. In that order...thanks for the insight. I'd go for Miller, but 9 million is out of my range..

And yes, Alvarez is a fresh brilliant, though the header ability along with passable passing PLUS passable PM (good for a possible defensive forward) and inadequate set pieces PLUS poor experience (better than wretched/disasterous) makes him a good grab.

Anyhow, thanks for the insight, amazingly I curbed my transfer addiction, but all that cash (should people buy my players) will be very tempting.

I think I will keep a big eye on the new league, though I have my heart set on a u-20 Japanese striker.

[Masked]

Alvarez is up for sale, he's expensive as I really don't want to part with him. Weller is up for sale too as well as some other players I have no interested in keeping.


And yes, Alvarez is a fresh brilliant, though the header ability along with passable passing PLUS passable PM (good for a possible defensive forward) and inadequate set pieces PLUS poor experience (better than wretched/disasterous) makes him a good grab.

I saw the price on Alvarez, and well, I am not longer interested. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

You would be incredibly lucky if you got 4.5M for him. Good luck though.

[Havok]

Big Big Big mistake giving up 1 trainee slot.... you'll regret it i promise. Your problem is you middy's, a 3-5-2 isn't the end all be all formation like you may think it is.

You run a 3-4-3 with a defensive coach, that means your defense is fine the way it is. Don't worry about it right now. What you need to do is put every dam cent you make into your midfield. Your midfiedlers to me look like they're all just excellent. That ain't gonna cut it in your divison. You should probally sell Óscar Alvarez, he should sell for at least 3.4 million i'd think.... Probally more.

Buy a nice trainee for a couple hundred K, Then go buy yourself 2 outstanding midfielders. Screw secondary's.... you need possession. your in a 3-4-3, your offense will be fine without any great passing offensive middy's. You'd be surprised how cheap midfielders are without secondary's.

Another thing that is killing your midfield Qwikshot is your coach. NEVER EVER EVER under estimate the value of good Team Spirit. I swear if you had a passable leadership coach right now, you can add 1-2 levels of midfield to every game you play.

You should also send some messages to Panther.... he's the owner of the Tomahawks. You both run a 3-4-3 with a defensive coach and you both have played the game for the same amount of time. Now look at his ratings and look at yours...... Thats not a knock on you, just talk to him alittle and find out what he did that maybe you didn't.

IMO, the 3-4-3 with a defensive coach is the absolute best way to get very good all around ratings very fast. You just have to work on your midfield. Keep upgrading it...... I'll say this one more time, if you continue to train scoring and you switch to a 3-5-2 in league games you'll seriously regret it i promise. HT is all about training.... without a top notch training program you wont succeed.

[Desnudo]

I agree with Havok. If you want to continue to train forward, switching to a 3-5-2 in league games isn't going to help your cause. You'd be better off sucking it up for a while until you get the cash to seriously upgrade your midfielders.

You might get a 1/4-1/2 rating bump from playing an additional winger towards the middle unless they have really great midfield skill. That still won't beat a brilliant or magnificent midfield. What your team really needs is midfielders better than excellent. I would aim for outstanding-brilliant. Once that's done you can lok at playing your winger offensively for a better overall attack. Solid-solid defense with a defensive coach should see you through to IV.

[daedalus]

First, I'm with Masked and Des and say stay with 3-4-3 no matter what. Upgrade your midfielders. In a 3-4-3, you'll definitely want to start moving toward formidable+. Also, I would not go with the inadequate playmaker/formidable winger you're thinking of in a 3-4-3. You don't really need the offense a formidable winger can provide that much and the inadequate playmaking just isn't sufficient for your need. You need to look for a possession winger - decent winger skill with above average playmaking skill. An example of this is a kid I'm working on with solid playmaking who just popped formidable in winger. Or, if you have the money, the winger that YSS just sold (in the Formidable+ thread). I don't even know if I'd play these guys toward middle. I just play them offensive, take the extra offense and enjoy the midfield boost I get from them.

That said, the first of your trainees I'd sell is Weller based on age and specialty. At least I would once he pops outstanding. With all the secondaries and specialty he has, I'd be hanging onto Alvarez until he reaches obscene level or 22 years old, whichever comes first since he's likely to bring in fairly obscene'ish money. Now that you have the cash to be selective about trainees, I'd also consider looking at particular secondaries or skills to add to your trainees' value when sold.

[-Panther]

my approach was fairly simple...

I started with 3 solid PM midfielders and a passable/passable wing/PM winger.

I don't see the point in upgrading by 1 level for all middies. I went from 3 solid->3 formidable and I'm just about to finish upgrading to 3 brilliant (have 2 already and 2mil in bank right now).

my strategy for this was quick train. I'd train 2-3 players 1 season (usually to formidable) and sell. those sales compounded with the sale of my middie(s) I was replacing would cover the cost of the new middie and trainee(s).

I don't drop big money on Uber trainees simply because it's not worth it to me. Until I get the rest of my team set and I start training the strikers I intend to keep when/if I switch training, I'm looking to get the most bang for my buck without 3-5 seasons worth of training.

2mil for a trainee isn't what I want because:

1. I don't want a u20 right now (unless it happens by luck)
2. I can get a nice upgrade and a trainee for the 3 mil people drop for solid trainees in week 1.

granted, awesome secondaries will give you more when you sell. but how much more did those secondaries cost you when you bought said trainee.

if you pay 2mil for a uber trainee. and you sell him for 5mil. you only made 3 mil.

if I buy an ok trainee for 500k, sell for 5mil. I make 4.5mil which is 1.5mil more than you. that's how I look at things.

ie:

you buy a solid scorer with solid passing for 2mil.
I buy a solid scorer with not much for secondaries for 500k.

both 17 ( don't have to be week 1). we both train to world class.

you sell a world class/solid for anywhere from 5.5-6mil
I sell a world class/weak for anywhere from 4.5-5mil

difference in sale price is 1mil. difference in purchase price is 1.5 mil. I saved 500k more than you and I could upgrade sooner since I had 1.5 mil left after purchase. To me, I managed my funds better than you did.

it evens out most of the time. it's more a matter of when you want the money.

now, if you purchasing a player you intend to keep on your team for many many seasons and not just for a trainee, then the extra costs are a little more justified since it's for the benefit of your team and not just for sale price.

1 other advantage I have/had is/was I've resided in cupcake series. IV.47 is one of the weakest series in IV. And it's starting to worry me since I'm almost upgrading too fast. If I win this week, I'll auto-promote to III where I'll be the whooping boy of whatever series I land in.

I'd sell:

Alvarez (I'd list for 3.2)
Manenica (I'd list for 1.8)
Weller (I'd list for 1.2)

* it's likely you'll get more, but that's what I'd list for.

with the proceeds, I do a massive overhaul on the midfield. it might not be enough to beat brilliant/mag midfield, but it should give you a much better start since when you want to upgrade, you'll get more trade in (sale of IM+trainee) to cover the cost for the new middies.

your defense if fine for now. until this season, I had all solid D (3 solid d + solid K). this season I started the D upgrade as I bought 1 outstanding.

the reason I'm upgrading my defenders aswell is because I prefer 3 outstanding defenders and an outstanding keeper, to 3 solid defenders and a titanic keeper.

It might be completely false, and probably is, but I think the strength of defenders plays a part in why uber defenses get rocked by crap offenses. ie;

2 solid defenders + titanic keeper will get scored on more by 2 solid strikers, then all outstanding (d+k) since your defenders are better than the strikers.

it will give you roughly the same ratings (solid+titanic might be little higher) but me and my mind play using logic whether it means anything or not.

the biggest downside you have, is the fact that you're in a brutal fuckin series. until either:

A: those ungodly midfields (for V they are ungodly) promote out and get some IV replacements that are weaker in the midfield

or

B: you get some ungodly middies (world class+)

you're going to have a hard time taking the division. You could run 3-5-2 all you want, even train PM, but with the huge lead they already have on you in the MF department, you're going to have to either hope they sell their best middies to fund an overhaul, or take a couple seasons of steady upgrading on your own MF.

the biggest contributor to my success, aside from cupcake series, IMO, is the part in bold...

my $0.02

[Qwikshot]

First thing first, thank you for all the responses.

Next thing, keep 3-4-3 for both leagues and friendlies/cups, this was the consensus, so I'll stick with it.

After that things get muddled...

Alvarez is on sale for 4.5 million, Weller for 2.12 mill, I figure with qualifiers approaching, someone may need hired guns...though I don't expect them to sell.

Daed, you talked about a winger with above average PM and decent winger...here's a few examples on my team.

Simon Gustavsson
200 000 US$, 23 years, solid form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities

Stamina: excellent Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: excellent Passing: poor
Winger: passable Defending: wretched
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate

Hubert Heuts
181 000 US$, 20 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: solid Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: excellent Passing: poor
Winger: passable Defending: weak
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: inadequate

Laurentiu Axinte
236 000 US$, 27 years, inadequate form
Has poor experience and wretched leadership abilities

Stamina: passable Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: solid Passing: poor
Winger: solid Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: inadequate
(Laurentiu is for sale though)

rather than using...

Tso Wu-Jiang
160 000 US$, 22 years, passable form
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities

Stamina: poor Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: inadequate Passing: poor
Winger: formidable Defending: inadequate
Scoring: weak Set Pieces: inadequate

Fair assessment, should I try in all my power to keep Laurentiu, or will the other two be okay.

[Qwikshot]

Midfielders:

Albert Logan
282 000 US$, 24 years, solid form
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: excellent Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: excellent Passing: inadequate
Winger: inadequate Defending: poor
Scoring: wretched Set Pieces: inadequate

Avi Abutbool
249 000 US$, 24 years, passable form
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities

Stamina: excellent Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: excellent Passing: weak
Winger: weak Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: solid

Dennis de Waal
152 000 US$, 25 years, poor form
Has weak experience and passable leadership abilities

Stamina: excellent Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: excellent Passing: weak
Winger: wretched Defending: inadequate
Scoring: inadequate Set Pieces: passable
(dennis is recovering from an injury, form has been unable to sustain above passable since injury)

Frank Gutermann
117 000 US$, 23 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities

Stamina: excellent Keeper: wretched
Playmaking: excellent Passing: wretched
Winger: weak Defending: poor
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: solid
(Frank is for sale)

Sell all these guys in order to acquire more funding towards a more elite midfield?

[Qwikshot]

Finally, the coach

Benedetto Amici (10504267)
45 years, weak form, healthy
A solid trainer who is defensive minded
A pleasant guy who is calm and honest.
Has inadequate experience and wretched leadership abilities.

Nationality: USA
Assessed value: 0 US$
Wage: 500 US$/week
Owner: Ultra Nox
Warnings: 0


Stamina: weak Goaltending: disastrous
Playmaking: disastrous Passing: disastrous
Winger: disastrous Defending: wretched
Scoring: disastrous Set Pieces: wretched

It's his leadership that is killing me right now, I cannot get team spirit above content for long periods, right now it's furious.

His replacement is waiting in the wings:

Ismael Sivit Gañán
54 000 US$, 31 years, passable form
Has solid experience and inadequate leadership abilities

Stamina: excellent Keeper: disastrous
Playmaking: passable Passing: weak
Winger: poor Defending: passable
Scoring: poor Set Pieces: poor

Ismael plays midfield and defense quite well, but I am unsure if I should slap the coach label on him yet, perhaps the start of next season so as not to erode his leadership skill too much.

[-Panther]

your wingers are fine for now. I'd keep Gustavsson and Heuts and make Gustavsson your starter while having Heuts as your backup.

Play Gustavsson offensive unless you really think TM will give you the MF edge to win.

As for midfielders, I'd sell all but Abutbool. I'd keep him as your 4th IM since in a pinch, he could play offensive CD if you really need MF help. it'll also be a little easier if one of your starting IMs drop to injury. But I'd sell the other 3.
my 4th IM is a formidable PM with passable defending. I'm keeping him just for that.

I agree that you should hold on making Ganan your new coach until right before the first cup match. This will ensure you'll atleast get all of next season worth of his inad LS since you get a 16 week grace period.

I agree with Havok, that wretched LS hurt you more than you realize. especially with serious PM trainers in your series. Take a look at some of his games for instance. He put up world class midfield, not because he MOTSed, but simply because of TS (good midfielders of course), but the TS can be your best friend, or your worst enemy. Unlike me, his series is far from cupcake, but he managed TS well and Havok's a good place to look to see the effects of good TS management.

[Havok]

Simon and Hubert i think are perfect for you right now. In a 3-4-3 your forwards contribute more to your wing attack then they do in a 3-5-2. So a great offensive winger isn't such a big deal. You need midfield help and those 2 guys should do the trick.

I also 100% agree with Panther about Avi Abutbool, with a defensive coach you can get away with playing a offensive CD 'Sometimes' when you really need a midfield boost.... and Abutbool would be perfect for that situation. I've seen that tactic used quite a few times, actually my former rivial/friend in divison V's team is very similar to yours. He also just switched to a defensive coach and now he plays an offensive CD in games when he needs a big midfield boost. (Tarentum Witches 72207).

If you sell off Albert Logan, Dennis de Waal, Frank Gutermann, Laurentiu Axinte, Tso Wu-Jiang, and your badass Forward Óscar Alvarez. You should easily be able to upgrade your coach and SERIOUSLY improve your midfield. The guys in your series will never know what hit'em next season!!

There are ways to be creative with your money when buying midfielders.... For the same money you'd spend on a outstanding middiy with passable passing, you can buy a brilliant middy with weak or poor passing. Another thing you could try is buy a couple middys with say... passable stamina, then this offseason train stamina for a week. You can knock 100-200k per middy by buying guys with lower stamina.

Anyway, im just throwing ideas at ya..... i should stop now before i get carried away :) Good luck next season!!

[Qwikshot]

Thanks all for your input, I do buy passable stamina middies to sell off, it's a nice money booster.

Does anyone know how important secondaries are going to be after the announcement?!?

Because how important or vital should it be for me to buy the best PM middie out there (w/o concern for any secondaries save stamina) or should I buy some well rounded middies?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Hoarding TS can work even with a lower leadership coach. I've done it this season (IMO fairly well) with wretched/poor leadership (coaching switch in week 4). I'll be holding content TS going into the last match of the season, and that includes a normal in week 11.

[Qwikshot]

Hoarding TS can work even with a lower leadership coach. I've done it this season (IMO fairly well) with wretched/poor leadership (coaching switch in week 4). I'll be holding content TS going into the last match of the season, and that includes a normal in week 11.


I figure it was possible, but with three teams that can at least compete at div4 level, I can't PIC often.

[Qwikshot]

btw Alvarez is on sale for 4 mill and Weller for 1.2 mill, I managed to sell off a lot of the chaff...only hope I can afford to buy quality replacements.

[Qwikshot]

one more dola, I found it funny...Logan I put up for 500k, but he didn't sell (solid form, excellent stamina, excellent PM) but poor form deWaal sold for almost 500k when I put him up for I think 350k. They both were posted at the same time...very strange.