Your new "king" - Sun Myung Moon

[chinaski]

Moonies founder, Washington Times owner and one of the largest Republican contributors for the last 25 years Rev. Sun Myung Moon was 'coronated' at our Capitol Hill. I dont know what the hell it means to be coronated in the US, but this whole story is sickening. This guy is a bigoted freak job piece of trash.

http://www.thehill.com/news/062204/moon.aspx

[Samdari]

Washington Times owner ...Rev. Sun Myung Moon

I had no idea.

[QuikSand]

I know Rep. Elijah Cummings fairly well, I'd be awfully surprised if his depiction in that article is completely accurate.

[John Galt]

I had no idea.

He owns a whole lot. If I remember right, the Moonies own Atlantic Records and a lot of magazines. The Washington Times has never turned a profit (that I know of), but Moon keeps it alive because of his political views. I dated a child of Moonie parents once - frightening.

[chinaski]

I know Rep. Elijah Cummings fairly well, I'd be awfully surprised if his depiction in that article is completely accurate.

Kinda sounds like he was one of those duped into going there.

[Sun Tzu]

No relation I swear.

[Galaril]

He also owns the UPI as in United Press International!Really freaken SCARY :eek:

[JPhillips]

Some of the politicians there may have been fooled, but at least Davis(D) and Weldon(R) have no excuse. Davis crowned Moon and Weldon spoke at the event and his office later lied about that.

Moon is perhaps the scariest figure in American politics. He has stated that God hates democracy, that he hopes to take over the US and install himself as king, that he wants to take over Congress by secretly getting his supporters elected, and that free speech and a free press are immoral and against the will of God.

Anybody who takes money from this guy should be ashamed. I won't buy the Washington Times because it is a Moon front. The reporters and columnists there are, in my opinion, forwarding the cause of Moon in exchange for a paycheck.

Moon's stated goal is the descrution of our Constitutional freedoms. He is every bit as dangerous as Bin Laden, he just goes about achieving his goals through money not violence. I won't vote for anyone who supports Moon whether Democrat or Republican. They may think that taking money from Moon is harmless, but Moon knows exactly what he is doing.

[Ksyrup]

Despite what he owns, though, is he any closer to realizing those dreams than before? I don't think so. The guy's a nutjob who will perish long before he can do any real harm, at least on a macro level (he may be destroying personal lives with his cult, but that's another issue).

[kcchief19]

This reiterates a belief I have held for many years -- the American people are nutty enough to elect just about anybody to the House of Representatives.

[chinaski]

Moon was a "spiritual advisor" to Nixon, Reagan, and is one for Bush Jr. His ties to the religious republicans goes way back. Nixon had a huge part in starting Moons 'career' in Washington. But all these Presidents truely believe(d) in the apocalypse, so im not too surprised they listen to this guy. I dont know how an honest Christian can really take him seriously though, he continues to call Christ weak and that he is the true Messiah.

[JPhillips]

One of his latest outreach projects is the Tear Down the Cross initiative. He is going into predominately minority churchs and offering them money to remove the symbol of the false messiah, Jesus. This is really one of his first attempts to infiltrate a traditionally Democratic group, and by the presence of guys like Davis and Cummings he seems to have been at least a little successful.

KSyrup: The Bush admin has appointed at least two Unification Church members to government jobs and has given a large chunk of money to an abstinence group that is a Mopn front orginization. Now in general I agree that Moon has little chance of taking of America, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant against his attempts and call out those who help him.

[Ksyrup]

And all that has gotten him where in terms of "taking over?" Again, this guy may be a crackpot with superior name-dropping skills, but I don't see him as a threat. If there's one thing I've noticed that nearly all Americans share, it's a sense of utter bewilderment at the moonies movement. Rich, poor, black, white, Republican, Democrat...they all shake their heads or look on with quizzical faces when moonies come prancing by at the airport or local community functions. This guy's going nowhere with those beliefs.

[Ksyrup]

. Now in general I agree that Moon has little chance of taking of America, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant against his attempts and call out those who help him.

I agree with you there.

[Schmidty]

Moon was a "spiritual advisor" to Nixon, Reagan, and is one for Bush Jr. His ties to the religious republicans goes way back. Nixon had a huge part in starting Moons 'career' in Washington. But all these Presidents truely believe(d) in the apocalypse, so im not too surprised they listen to this guy. I dont know how an honest Christian can really take him seriously though, he continues to call Christ weak and that he is the true Messiah.

Show me some hard, unbiased evidence of this and I'll believe you.

Edit: Particularly the part about Moon being a spiritual advisor to Bush.

[Abe Sargent]

I know littela bout Rev Moon except what I occasionally read and hear. But, how is a guy who uses the democratic process as bad as Bin Ladin? He believes that democracy is the wrong system of government. So? He's helping to elect people who agree with him. Isn't that EXACTLY what he should be doing? Isn't that the American system in action? That no matter what your opinion, you have a right to express it and try to get others to agree?

As for nominating people who agree with him to various posts, I thought that religious views should not be considered. If the best person for the job happens to beleive that a government other than democracy is best for the US, so what?

We have too many black scars punishing people who disagree with American Democracy, from Eugene Debs to McCarthyism and the Red Scare. I assume that you wouldn't have a problem with the Socialist or Communist party trying to get a few people elected in America, would you? What's the difference?

-Anxiety

[JPhillips]

But he's not running people for office under the banner of the Unification Church. He's using money to buy his way into the halls of power and he's been damn secretive about it. Call Weldon's office or Davis' office and try to get them to admit they participated in this ceremony. I've read numerous transcripts and e-mails that refuse to answer questions about Moon. He isn't trying to be a part of the process, he's trying to sabotage the process, there's a big difference.

But even if he was using purely open political means wouldn't I still have the right to call his movement dangerous and criticize those who associate with him? Moon is a felon, a business partner of Kim Jong Il, a paranoid with a messiah complex, a avowed hater of democracy, and a cult leader that has brain washed thousands of people.

As for political appointments, I have a huge problem with any politician, R or D appointing supporters of a cult leader, felon, and self-proclaimed Emporer of the World and I have every right to say so.

[Desnudo]

"The Rev. Sun Myung Moon, former felon and current owner of The Washington Times, was the man in the spotlight, declaring himself humanity’s “savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent.'"

Wasn't he dictator of North Korea for a while? Otherwise there are two True Parents and saviors running around on the Korean Peninsula.

[sterlingice]

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do.
Who leaves the Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do.
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do.
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do.

SI

[Glengoyne]

Moon was a "spiritual advisor" to Nixon, Reagan, and is one for Bush Jr. His ties to the religious republicans goes way back. Nixon had a huge part in starting Moons 'career' in Washington. But all these Presidents truely believe(d) in the apocalypse, so im not too surprised they listen to this guy. I dont know how an honest Christian can really take him seriously though, he continues to call Christ weak and that he is the true Messiah.
My Bullshit detector has exploded.

[John Galt]

My Bullshit detector has exploded.

There is plenty of documentation on the Bush/Moon connection (although the spiritual advisor stuff is not my cup of tea). I'm not sure you or Schmidty would find the sources on it that credible, but Moon has money and runs the Washington Times - of course he is connected to GOP politicians. There are also plenty of photographs of Moon and the Bush family.

[Glengoyne]

There is plenty of documentation on the Bush/Moon connection (although the spiritual advisor stuff is not my cup of tea). I'm not sure you or Schmidty would find the sources on it that credible, but Moon has money and runs the Washington Times - of course he is connected to GOP politicians. There are also plenty of photographs of Moon and the Bush family.
Big Stretch between being a big contributor, and being taken seriously enough to be considered any kind of "advisor". Also I don't believe he exclusively donates to GOP pols.

[John Galt]

Big Stretch between being a big contributor, and being taken seriously enough to be considered any kind of "advisor". Also I don't believe he exclusively donates to GOP pols.

I would be surprised if his donations weren't overwhelmingly for GOP pols. It is public record, but I'm too lazy to check. He has a lot of connections and has managed to get church members placed in high government offices. The Moonies are the most successful "cult" in America and most people don't even realize it.

[RendeR]

I think the general point is, the mans a fucking freak and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near our already lame-duck administration.

Rights be damned, he's a felon, and a known cult leader, these should be signs that modern day citizens should be screaming at their representatives about.

Get him out of washington.


I hate fucking fanatics.

[Schmidty]

I hate fucking fanatics.

Is hate fanatical? If so, do you hate fucking yourself?

[JPhillips]

I think spiritual advisor is going too far. Bush Sr. has been photographed with Moon and has done some speaking for Moon events. He has also called him, "the man with the vision". Bush Jr. has appointed a few Moonies to government positions and has given a Moonie abstinence group a good chunk of money. I don't think the Bushes are in Moon's pocket, nor do I think they agree with his religious ideas, but they have been willing to cozy up to him in exchange for money and positive press coverage.

Moon has been very heavily involved in conservative politics for at least twenty years. He pays a lot of conservatives for writing and speaking, most notably at The Washington Times. Recently, however, he has made a concerted effort to gain influence with the Congressional Black Caucus. He has also spent a lot of time and money on getting close ties with inner-city churches. While he still gives more money to Republicans, not surprising since outside of his messiah stuff he holds to a very conservative world-view, he is now starting to be a player on the other side of the aisle. This is why you can see Weldon(R) and Davis(D) praising Moon at the same event.

As far as his history, it was Reagan that brought Moon into some respectability. Moon was a strong anti-communist and was willing to promote/pay for conservative views so he became a player in the Reagan era. Bush Sr. was just an extension of that, but by then the Washington Times had gained a little credibility and hence Moon was more valuable to conservatives. Bush Jr. is just continuing a trend that has deep roots in the modern Republican party.

Let me be clear, though. This is not a partisan issue for me. Any congressman or President should have their ties with Moon scrutinized. I think most voters would be interested in knowing that these people praise and take money from a man that called America, "Satan's harvest".

[Passacaglia]

But the question is, will he be a first ballot HOF guy?

[Ksyrup]

I think spiritual advisor is going too far. Bush Sr. has been photographed with Moon and has done some speaking for Moon events. He has also called him, "the man with the vision". Bush Jr. has appointed a few Moonies to government positions and has given a Moonie abstinence group a good chunk of money. I don't think the Bushes are in Moon's pocket, nor do I think they agree with his religious ideas, but they have been willing to cozy up to him in exchange for money and positive press coverage.
I agree with this characterization. Bush Sr. did some speaking on behalf of a newspaper that Moon started in South America back in the mid-90's, and was paid 6 figures. I think one of the draws to him is his ability to own/control certain media outlets that are run as conservative-leaning. As most conservatives believe the media is liberally biased to begin with, this is obviously very welcome.

Now, whether this guy's views should override any of that is another question. I know the guy has been critical of Bush Sr. for not taking his advice during his presidency (and Moon's response was "see where that got him," as in not re-elected), so I think they use each other for their own limited purposes, as opposed to Moon being in Bush's pocket or vice versa.

I wouldn't have anything to do with him, but then again, I wouldn't want to be actively involved in politics, either. There are some games I just don't want to play.

[chinaski]

* Bush W. selects Josette Shiner as the Deputy of U. S. Trade. Shiner is a longtime high ranking member of the Unification Church. Shiner was also the managing editor for Moon's Washington Times newspaper.

* Bush W. appoints David Caprara to head AmeriCorps. Longtime member of the Moonies.- aka Church of Unification.

* Moon sponsored George W. Bush's Inaugural Prayer Luncheon for Unity and Renewal held in the Hyatt hotel ballroom on Capitol Hill on 1/19/01, Moon received an award for his "work in support of traditional family values." The featured speaker was John Ashcroft. Ashcroft praised Moon for "his spiritual guidance to american families".

* Moon paid Bush Sr. and Barbara to go on a month long speaking tour of South American, promoting the Church of Unification. Bush Sr. stumps at every stop, among his comments, "Moon is a man of great vision".

* The Centers for Disease Control awards the Moonies a no-bid grant for HIV education in Africa. Education = "converting to the church of unification"

* Moon forms "Coalition for Religious Freedom" - key executive members are Tim LaHaye as Chairman, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, James Robison, James Kennedy and Rex Humbard. Falwell is another 'spiritual advisor' to the Bush family.

* Moon forms American Coalition for Traditional Values (ACTV) - executive members: Tim LaHaye, Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Swaggert. Pat Roberston is a Bush Spiritual Advisor.

* In 1993, Trent Lott, on the floor of the Senate, proposed “True Parents Day”, a term taken directly from the Moonie “bible” The Divine Principle to describe Moon and his wife; after the name was changed Parents Day, it passed.

* Moon donates 1 million to Bush's presidential library.

* U.S. Department of Health and Human Services gave the Moonies a $475,280 grant to fund Free Teens USA, an after-school celibacy club in urban New Jersey.

* President Ford, President Bush HW, William Bennett, Jack Kemp, and Ralph Reed all spoke at the "World Convention of the Family Federation for World Peace". A Moonie run event.


Thats just a small list of Bush W. ties to Moon. There are so many Moonie run org.'s and companies out there, the list could be endless.

There are no direct quotes of Bush W. saying Moon is a Spiritual/Social advisor of his, but the connection/relationship is more than clear. Rove, Ashcroft and Mr. & Mrs. Bush Sr. are just a small sampling of people who have more than once shared the stage with Moon and his beliefs. Moon has his tentacles wrapped around Billy Grahm, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. You know very well those 3 ARE advisors to the Bush family.

Anyone associated with this man and his 'cult' has no business anywhere near our government.

http://451world.com/i2/moon.jpg
http://gorenfeld.net/images/moon_senate.jpg
http://www.gorenfeld.net/images/quayle.jpg
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/jpg/doc-134.jpg

[Schmidty]

You still haven't convinced me, nor have you backed up your statements by citing sources. I'm very anxious to see actual links that show where these "facts" of yours come from.

[Glengoyne]

No mention of Reagan there, and really not enough ties to Bush, the Junior, to call him anything but a campaign contributor. As for Bush the Senior, I'd say you have proven that he is cashing in in a big way. I really am a bit surprised with all the photos though. I have always had more respect for George H. W. than that.

Also while I will readilly believe that Falwell, Robertson and company would sell their souls for the kind of money that Moon provides, I have a lot more trouble putting Billy Graham and maybe even Tim Lahaye in that same category. The inclusion of Jim Bakker and Swaggart on that list also makes me think it might be dated information.

You don't possibly believe that Bush would take advice from someone who he refuses to have his picture taken with, do you?

[panerd]

Click here for his political connections...

http://www.perkel.com/politics/moonies/

The writer of this is a bit of a nut himself. He has started his own religion called "Chruch of Reality" and has an extensive collection of articles on why prostitution isn't that bad. (As a matter of fact I found this site while doing some research on prostitution) But I was fascinated when I began to see the depth of this Moon's influence. I knew about the Korean war stuff and the annoying guys at the airport, but the Washington Times type things blew me away. Again, take this with a grain of salt if you like. I never really checked the authencity of his sources and the author is obviously pushing an agenda, but there is some pretty crazy stuff in there. And if even 10% of it is true the Rev Sun Myng Moon is a pretty dispicible guy.

Especially this list of Moonie front organizations...
http://www.perkel.com/politics/moonies/front.htm

[panerd]

Dola:
I also forgot to mention the other way I had heard of Rev. Moon was that Frank Coztanza once sold him a Jesus statue.

[Buccaneer]

You guys have to be careful about your characterizations and associations. When one speaks at a conference called, "World Convention of the Family Federation for World Peace", it becomes politically expedient to do so. Declining an invitations would brand you against families and world peace. Political bedfellows work because of the axiom that many still don't get: "the enemy of your enemy is your friend". Up to the 1980s, communist regimes were the most fearful enemies and if you are against that, you have to be supportive of those who takes up the same cause. That was just one example of remembering to be careful about associations.

My fervent hope is that this false prophet of a one-world govt will die and the momentum will slow. However, there are other large, well-funded groups with similar goals (of humanistic dominance) that are hiding behind colorful and cheerful slogans and themes.

[chinaski]

You guys have to be careful about your characterizations and associations. When one speaks at a conference called, "World Convention of the Family Federation for World Peace", it becomes politically expedient to do so. Declining an invitations would brand you against families and world peace.

Bucc, this is so far from the truth. Politicians dont decide to endorse groups based off of their name alone. A decline to join these nut jobs on stage wouldnt get a single look from anyone. PLEEEEASE read about the Family Federation for World Peace. Their name has nothing to do with what they stand for.. they are beyond evil, and the list of speakers is shocking. Bill Cosby spoke at their convention in 1996, he claimed he was lied to about the conventions intention and threatened to sue once it was over.

They ARRANGE marriages for christ sake (err for Rev. Moons sake i should say)

The Family Federation for World Peace:
http://www.familyfed.org/

List of Speakers: (linked from their website - Everyone i listed above, plus oh so many more) http://members.aol.com/greatbless/history.html

and their marriage arrangement site
http://www.matchingservice.org/

[chinaski]

You still haven't convinced me, nor have you backed up your statements by citing sources. I'm very anxious to see actual links that show where these "facts" of yours come from.

Everything i gathered to make that list was from salon.com and the moonies website. Look up everything i listed for yourself, there are plenty of sources to choose from.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/24/moon/index.html
http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2000/10/09/march/index.html
http://www.unification.net/
http://www.unification.org/

[Buccaneer]

chinaski, you missed my point and then you made it. I know about this "conference" and about Moonies. Politicians do go for the name if it has a target demographics. Many times they do not know what they get into (you see pols denying any ties with some of those donating money to them), even Bill Cosby as you said. My example was just that (an example) - in some minds, it would turn voters off. Just look at all of the political hay that is made when a pol voted against a very bad, pork-laden bill like "Save the Children Act" (I made that up). Someone, somewhere will bring that to their enemies' constituants. Further on, my point was to point out the danger of lofty humanistic phrases, like "Family Federation for World Peace", where no one can publically speak out against such a thing. But just like nearly all legislation, the devil is in the details.

[JPhillips]

Buc: I'll agree with you to a point. Moon has been quite clever in getting big names to speak at his front organizations. Rep. Davis though handed Moon his crown. Rep. Weldon spoke at the event and then his office lied first about him attending then about him speaking. Anyone who works for the Washington Times knows Moon's views as he semi-regularly publishes Moonie ads, lately one with Stalin, Mao and Hitler declaring Moon the messiah. Bush Jr. has appointed Moonies and given money to Moonie front groups. Bush Sr. has knowingly spoken for Moon and his business ventures.

And one point, Buc. There is no organization that is as secretive and influencial as the Unification Church. They, like the cheese, stand alone.

[chinaski]

chinaski, you missed my point and then you made it. I know about this "conference" and about Moonies. Politicians do go for the name if it has a target demographics. Many times they do not know what they get into (you see pols denying any ties with some of those donating money to them), even Bill Cosby as you said.

I sorta made your point, but what i didnt really emphasize is that these speakers knew full well (with the exception of Cosby) what they were doing and who/what they were supporting. In Bush' case, he was already actively supporting Moon in various ways. I dont know about Ford, his relationship with Moon began back in the Nixon years, so im pretty sure he knew what Moon stood for by 1996.

A great deal of those speakers were/are members of the The Council for National Policy. Its heavily funded by the Moonies. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/council_020501.html

Wouldnt you think anything associated with the moonies would be strictly off limits for a politician? Thats why im so freaked out this guy has wormed his way into the fiber of our political system. He just was crowned at our capitol hill, in a facility founded by our tax dollars! iiiieeeeeee! (im not really shouting at you :))

[EagleFan]

* Bush W. selects Josette Shiner as the Deputy of U. S. Trade. Shiner is a longtime high ranking member of the Unification Church. Shiner was also the managing editor for Moon's Washington Times newspaper.

* Bush W. appoints David Caprara to head AmeriCorps. Longtime member of the Moonies.- aka Church of Unification.[/QUOTE}

So we should discriminate based on religion? I guess that first ammendment only applies to you and what you approve.

[QUOTE]* Moon sponsored George W. Bush's Inaugural Prayer Luncheon for Unity and Renewal held in the Hyatt hotel ballroom on Capitol Hill on 1/19/01, Moon received an award for his "work in support of traditional family values." The featured speaker was John Ashcroft. Ashcroft praised Moon for "his spiritual guidance to american families".

Ringing endorsement there. Nothing like takiong just a small context of an event, but that's how you can attempt to justify your beliefs.

* Moon paid Bush Sr. and Barbara to go on a month long speaking tour of South American, promoting the Church of Unification. Bush Sr. stumps at every stop, among his comments, "Moon is a man of great vision".

Again, I guess the first ammendment doesn't apply here?

The Centers for Disease Control awards the Moonies a no-bid grant for HIV education in Africa. Education = "converting to the church of unification"

I must have missed that definition of education somewhere.

forms "Coalition for Religious Freedom" - key executive members are Tim LaHaye as Chairman, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, James Robison, James Kennedy and Rex Humbard. Falwell is another 'spiritual advisor' to the Bush family.

* Moon forms American Coalition for Traditional Values (ACTV) - executive members: Tim LaHaye, Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Swaggert. Pat Roberston is a Bush Spiritual Advisor.

Nothing like throwin around that 'spiritual advisor' tag. I heard that he once watched the news to see if it would rain,maybe the weather man was also a spiritual advisor.

993, Trent Lott, on the floor of the Senate, proposed “True Parents Day”, a term taken directly from the Moonie “bible” The Divine Principle to describe Moon and his wife; after the name was changed Parents Day, it passed.

Wow, the sky is falling. I once asked for a cracker, but it had nothing to do with a racial term.

* Moon donates 1 million to Bush's presidential library.

I guess it would have been more appropriate if Bush rented out parts of the White House to foreign nationals for a campaign donation.

* U.S. Department of Health and Human Services gave the Moonies a $475,280 grant to fund Free Teens USA, an after-school celibacy club in urban New Jersey.

Dear god, an organization that attempts to promote teens not having sex until they are ready. Will the evil ever end?

* President Ford, President Bush HW, William Bennett, Jack Kemp, and Ralph Reed all spoke at the "World Convention of the Family Federation for World Peace". A Moonie run event.

I bet we could find a lot ties to events that any politician has spoken at.

Anyone associated with this man and his 'cult' has no business anywhere near our government.


Hey, why stop here. Maybe you shouldn't allow catholics to ever do business with our government, or blacks or jews. Let us know who you feel it is okay to allow near our government and we will model the 1st ammendment after you. Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on the communist party? They are out to destroy our form of government but I don't remember seeing any of your rants about that.

Aren't double standards convenient?

[chinaski]

The "Moonies" arent a religion, its a cult. Defend them all you want, youre alone on this one Eagle.

[JPhillips]

Eaglefan: I'll take on some of this since I am as anti-Moon as they come.

Moon has every right to practice his religion. He has every right to proclaim himself as the messiah. He has every right to donate money within legal limits to whatever political candidates he desires. The same applies to his followers. He can promote any values he chooses and he can create any organizations, again within legal limits, to promote those values that he chooses.

But, the American public should know what Moon is doing and who is willing to stand beside him. Voters should know that Moon has called America, "Satan's harvest". They should know that he thinks God hates individualism. They should know that Moon does business with a leader of the Axis of Evil. They should know that he has made it his stated mission to take over the United States government. They should know he's a convicted felon. They should know that Rep. Davis crowned him emporer. They should know that Rep. Weldon spoke in praise of Moon at this same event. They should know that Bush Jr. has appointed Unification church members to government positions. They should know that politicians from both parties are taking Moon's money. They should know, in short, who this man is, what he is trying to do and those that are helping him achieve his goals.

Now my guess is that most voters would not be supportive of Moon's agenda and would not be willing to support those with Moon connections. If I'm wrong and the voters choose to stand by Moon, then so be it. My point is that people don't know about Moon and would be shocked if they understood the level of influence this guy had on American politics.

[panerd]

Hey, why stop here. Maybe you shouldn't allow catholics to ever do business with our government, or blacks or jews. Let us know who you feel it is okay to allow near our government and we will model the 1st ammendment after you. Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on the communist party? They are out to destroy our form of government but I don't remember seeing any of your rants about that.

Aren't double standards convenient?

I think you are picking the wrong person to defend here. I realize any time anyone goes after Bush Jr & co. many posters feel the need to defend them. But I would think you interests would be better served by arguing that Bush Jr. has no real connection to Moon than trying to defend his sham of a religion. It is a cult, not a religion.

[Anthony]

hey, i love "Moonies". remember that part when Chunk and that fat kid saved the whole gang, and they were wearing pirate hats, and Chunk was like "heeeeeey yoooooou guyyyyys!". I loved that little Asian kid who was going around setting all those booby traps.

[chinaski]

hey, i love "Moonies". remember that part when Chunk and that fat kid saved the whole gang, and they were wearing pirate hats, and Chunk was like "heeeeeey yoooooou guyyyyys!". I loved that little Asian kid who was going around setting all those booby traps.

hahaha, Moon does a mean Truffle Shuffle~!

[Abe Sargent]

The "Moonies" arent a religion, its a cult. Defend them all you want, youre alone on this one Eagle.


Have you read this thread? EagleFan is not alone.

I keep reading, "Moonies" don't belong near our government and this is a cult. So what if it is a cult? Don't cults have the same rights? Don't members of cults have the right to be hired for a job if they are the most qualified? We cannot deny a person their freedom to speak, to support candidates for office with money and volunteers, to participate in our political discussions with thinktanks and committees and speeches and rallies.

A cult is often just a dirty term for a religion that people don't like. (Not always, there are technical definitions, but I think people don't always mean them)

-Anxiety

[Buccaneer]

Eaglefan: I'll take on some of this since I am as anti-Moon as they come.

Moon has every right to practice his religion. He has every right to proclaim himself as the messiah. He has every right to donate money within legal limits to whatever political candidates he desires. The same applies to his followers. He can promote any values he chooses and he can create any organizations, again within legal limits, to promote those values that he chooses.

But, the American public should know what Moon is doing and who is willing to stand beside him. Voters should know that Moon has called America, "Satan's harvest". They should know that he thinks God hates individualism. They should know that Moon does business with a leader of the Axis of Evil. They should know that he has made it his stated mission to take over the United States government. They should know he's a convicted felon. They should know that Rep. Davis crowned him emporer. They should know that Rep. Weldon spoke in praise of Moon at this same event. They should know that Bush Jr. has appointed Unification church members to government positions. They should know that politicians from both parties are taking Moon's money. They should know, in short, who this man is, what he is trying to do and those that are helping him achieve his goals.

Now my guess is that most voters would not be supportive of Moon's agenda and would not be willing to support those with Moon connections. If I'm wrong and the voters choose to stand by Moon, then so be it. My point is that people don't know about Moon and would be shocked if they understood the level of influence this guy had on American politics.
But you would also be shocked at the level of influence others have had on American politics. Is Moon more dangerous than they others? I don't know. I just wish you and others were more critical and skeptical of other associations (like with ecoterrorists and other wanting to bring down our country). You see, some have gone so far down the credibility scale and that others think it's nothing more than another political attack. Moon has been around for a long time so why now? And why just him and his followers?

[Bubba Wheels]

* Bush W. selects Josette Shiner as the Deputy of U. S. Trade. Shiner is a longtime high ranking member of the Unification Church. Shiner was also the managing editor for Moon's Washington Times newspaper.

* Bush W. appoints David Caprara to head AmeriCorps. Longtime member of the Moonies.- aka Church of Unification.

* Moon sponsored George W. Bush's Inaugural Prayer Luncheon for Unity and Renewal held in the Hyatt hotel ballroom on Capitol Hill on 1/19/01, Moon received an award for his "work in support of traditional family values." The featured speaker was John Ashcroft. Ashcroft praised Moon for "his spiritual guidance to american families".

* Moon paid Bush Sr. and Barbara to go on a month long speaking tour of South American, promoting the Church of Unification. Bush Sr. stumps at every stop, among his comments, "Moon is a man of great vision".

* The Centers for Disease Control awards the Moonies a no-bid grant for HIV education in Africa. Education = "converting to the church of unification"

* Moon forms "Coalition for Religious Freedom" - key executive members are Tim LaHaye as Chairman, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, James Robison, James Kennedy and Rex Humbard. Falwell is another 'spiritual advisor' to the Bush family.

* Moon forms American Coalition for Traditional Values (ACTV) - executive members: Tim LaHaye, Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, Swaggert. Pat Roberston is a Bush Spiritual Advisor.

* In 1993, Trent Lott, on the floor of the Senate, proposed “True Parents Day”, a term taken directly from the Moonie “bible” The Divine Principle to describe Moon and his wife; after the name was changed Parents Day, it passed.

* Moon donates 1 million to Bush's presidential library.

* U.S. Department of Health and Human Services gave the Moonies a $475,280 grant to fund Free Teens USA, an after-school celibacy club in urban New Jersey.

* President Ford, President Bush HW, William Bennett, Jack Kemp, and Ralph Reed all spoke at the "World Convention of the Family Federation for World Peace". A Moonie run event.


Thats just a small list of Bush W. ties to Moon. There are so many Moonie run org.'s and companies out there, the list could be endless.

There are no direct quotes of Bush W. saying Moon is a Spiritual/Social advisor of his, but the connection/relationship is more than clear. Rove, Ashcroft and Mr. & Mrs. Bush Sr. are just a small sampling of people who have more than once shared the stage with Moon and his beliefs. Moon has his tentacles wrapped around Billy Grahm, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. You know very well those 3 ARE advisors to the Bush family.

Anyone associated with this man and his 'cult' has no business anywhere near our government.

http://451world.com/i2/moon.jpg
http://gorenfeld.net/images/moon_senate.jpg
http://www.gorenfeld.net/images/quayle.jpg
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/jpg/doc-134.jpg

I seem to remember a very famous picture of Rosalyn Carter standing next to a serial killer and smiling. What do these pictures prove? Gore's the one that took the money from the nuns at the Buddist Temple. These pictures prove nothing, just more lefty slander.

[Bubba Wheels]

Yes, I believe the serial killer in question was the one and only John Wayne Gacey (sans clown makeup.)

[Chubby]

You're right Bubba, they mean nothing at all. He and his wacko cult have never even thought about a goverment official much less talked to one of either party :rolleyes:

[panerd]

Just one more post and I think I will call it a night. But it's one thing when Flash186 starts going off on some tangent about Republicans and gets flamed for it. (Most of the time rightfully so) But it is a whole other thing when people (I assume Bush supporters) start defending the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

I am a Democrat and a big Bill Clinton supporter. If you started up with ties between Clinton and some idiot like Moon I may call you to task on where the connection exists. But I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to explain how the Moonies are a legit organization. Bad, bad route to take. They are a cult disguised as a religion. I am sure there are other examples that are just as bad, but that wasn't the point as this thread.

[EagleFan]

The "Moonies" arent a religion, its a cult. Defend them all you want, youre alone on this one Eagle.

They have just as much right as any other group to attempt to enter the political ring. We, as voters, have every right to vote against them but we cannot dictate who can and can't run as long as they meet the current standards of citizenship and age.


I am against the Moonies and what they stand for but cannot question their freedom to express. I can voice my opinio by not votiing for them, not by keeping them from running.

Like I said, where does it stop?

[Chubby]

They have just as much right as any other group to attempt to enter the political ring. We, as voters, have every right to vote against them but we cannot dictate who can and can't run as long as they meet the current standards of citizenship and age.


I am against the Moonies and what they stand for but cannot question their freedom to express. I can voice my opinio by not votiing for them, not by keeping them from running.

Like I said, where does it stop?

Nobody said they don't have a right to express their views. They're still a cult and people have every right to call them that.

[JPhillips]

Buc: It's impossible to include everyone that you may find offensive. When you complain about liberals are you being remiss in also not condemning abortion doctor killers? The question of why just him is unanswerable, but also pointless. As to why now, he did just get crowned as emporer by a US rep. so now does seem a particularly good time.

Finally before I too call it a night, framing this as a partisan issue is a disservice. I don't care what Moon's religion is our what his followers believe. I do care that people in power are associating with a felon, a business partner with Kim Jong Il, a man who calls for the destruction of democracy, a man that has been repeatedly cited for cult-like abuses and brainwashing, a man that masks his real intentions by getting the famous and powerful to speak at sham awards ceremonies, and a man that equates America with Satan.

As to whether his followers should be scrutinized, why shouldn't we look closely at government appointees that follow a man that openly calls for the destruction of our Constitution? Would this be acceptable under a Democratic president?

Moon is dangerous and his money has allowed him to get into the halls of power. This very discussion is proof that he has bought a certain degree of legitimacy. In the seventies he was investigated and declred to be the worst sort of cult-leader. Many countries won't let him travel due to his church's abuses. Now, in the US though he is seen by many as a beacon of freedom of religion and a strong-willed conservative.

As the right is so fond of pointing out, freely associating with evil is a very dangerous proposition.

[Daimyo]

What exactly is the difference between a religion and a cult? Is it a popularity contest?

[Bubba Wheels]

You're right Bubba, they mean nothing at all. He and his wacko cult have never even thought about a goverment official much less talked to one of either party :rolleyes:

So by your own logic, John Wayne Gacey was influential within the Democratic Party, because he was a contributor and had his picture taken with a smiling Rosalyn Carter? Just something else the Democrats should feel real good about. :eek:

[John Galt]

So by your own logic, John Wayne Gacey was influential within the Democratic Party, because he was a contributor and had his picture taken with a smiling Rosalyn Carter? Just something else the Democrats should feel real good about. :eek:

It is amazing how you can ignore the various connections beyond the pictures (and minimal contributions) to make an analogy that is not at all applicable. Did Rosalyn Carter (who was not president) ever say John Wayne Gacey was a "man of great vision" while on a speaking tour sponsored by Gacey? Did the Carter administration ever fund Gacey's organizations? Did Carter ever speak at any of Gacey's events? Did Gacey ever give millions to a Carter cause? Did Carter ever give an award to Gacey? Did Gacey's newspaper regularly defend Carter and attack his enemies (even when the attacks were based on faulty information)?

But don't let the facts get in the way.