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Qwikshot
07-15-2004, 10:22 PM
I have four 18 y.o. strikers of comparable skills...(plus 3 A team strikers).

I had a youth pull with passable scoring skills go solid this week after training, he had been my 7th man (I kept him as the top reserve striker). Take a look at his skills:

Dean Chu (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/playerDetails.asp?playerID=35978109) http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/images/bookmark_16x16.gif (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/bookmarks.asp?action=AddConfirm&BookmarkTypeID=2&ObjectID=35978109)
TSI = 730 (73 000 US$) , 18 years, solid form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>inadequate</TD><TD> Keeper: </TD><TD>disastrous</TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>poor</TD><TD> Passing: </TD><TD>weak</TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>inadequate</TD><TD> Defending: </TD><TD>wretched</TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>solid</TD><TD> Set Pieces: </TD><TD>excellent</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The excellent set pieces is really nice, and the weak passing isn't too bad.

Should I have him start on the B-team, and replace one of the three?

Arnt Hartviksen (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/playerDetails.asp?playerID=27749009) http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/images/bookmark_16x16.gif (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/bookmarks.asp?action=AddConfirm&BookmarkTypeID=2&ObjectID=27749009)
TSI = 1 230 (123 000 US$) , 18 years, solid form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>weak</TD><TD> Keeper: </TD><TD>disastrous</TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>weak</TD><TD> Passing: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>poor</TD><TD> Defending: </TD><TD>wretched</TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>excellent</TD><TD> Set Pieces: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Ülar Siil (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/playerDetails.asp?playerID=29781243) http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/images/bookmark_16x16.gif (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/bookmarks.asp?action=AddConfirm&BookmarkTypeID=2&ObjectID=29781243)
TSI = 1 440 (144 000 US$) , 18 years, passable form
Has disastrous experience and inadequate leadership abilities

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>inadequate</TD><TD> Keeper: </TD><TD>disastrous</TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>poor</TD><TD> Passing: </TD><TD>weak</TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>poor</TD><TD> Defending: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>excellent</TD><TD> Set Pieces: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Karlo Lyhne (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/playerDetails.asp?playerID=32101118) http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/images/warned_1.gifhttp://www5.hattrick.org/Common/images/bookmark_16x16.gif (http://www5.hattrick.org/Common/bookmarks.asp?action=AddConfirm&BookmarkTypeID=2&ObjectID=32101118)
TSI = 1 390 (139 000 US$) , 18 years, inadequate form
Has disastrous experience and poor leadership abilities

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>poor</TD><TD> Keeper: </TD><TD>disastrous</TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>inadequate</TD><TD> Passing: </TD><TD>wretched</TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>poor</TD><TD> Defending: </TD><TD>passable</TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>excellent</TD><TD> Set Pieces: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Or should I keep these three as my B-team. I figure I could sell one to get me out of debt. How crucial is set pieces? (if at all). The other guys are relatively new excellents.

Just curious.
Raven Hawk
07-15-2004, 11:24 PM
It depends on how far into excellent the other trainies are. If one of them just popped, I'd sell the excellent that just popped. Otherwise, I'd sell the solid that just popped.
sterlingice
07-16-2004, 02:57 AM
I'd sell Karlo because of that passable defending because you have a "dirty" trainee (high non-secondary skill).

SI
hhiipp
07-16-2004, 07:46 AM
How crucial is set pieces?
Could result in some set pieces special event goals and also scoring on penalty kicks. If he's on your B-team with no chance he'll ever be an A-teamer the SP won't really help you out much.
Cosmicjello
07-16-2004, 10:23 AM
I'd sell Karlo because of that passable defending because you have a "dirty" trainee (high non-secondary skill).

SI
Depends if you press alot. He could put a hurtin' on someone since pressing takes into account everyone but the keeper, even more if he's "powerful" in the rain. Gains Scoring and Defending! :eek:
Mr. Wednesday
07-16-2004, 10:34 AM
I'd sell Karlo because of that passable defending because you have a "dirty" trainee (high non-secondary skill).As of HT 6.6, that's not nearly as big a problem as it used to be.
sterlingice
07-16-2004, 11:29 AM
As of HT 6.6, that's not nearly as big a problem as it used to be.
Oh, that's right. I forgot about that (the whole nerfing of secondary costs)...

Depends if you press alot. He could put a hurtin' on someone since pressing takes into account everyone but the keeper, even more if he's "powerful" in the rain. Gains Scoring and Defending! :eek:
I suppose that'd be handy but is there a huge market for it? I mean, I don't think most teams go out there saying "Ok, I need a good pressing player because we're going to lose a lot of our games in the next couple of seasons". But I could be wrong.

SI
Cosmicjello
07-16-2004, 11:34 AM
Oh, that's right. I forgot about that (the whole nerfing of secondary costs)...


I suppose that'd be handy but is there a huge market for it? I mean, I don't think most teams go out there saying "Ok, I need a good pressing player because we're going to lose a lot of our games in the next couple of seasons". But I could be wrong.

SI
Probably not. But it's a nice added bonus.
Mr. Wednesday
07-16-2004, 12:31 PM
I do like my forwards to have a little defending skill so I can press if I want to. My squad still isn't very good at it, and it's not a requirement I set when searching.
Matt2You
07-16-2004, 03:38 PM
Sell Karlo and replace him with Dean. Screw the defence, with the way the market is--People will see that "wretched" passing and instantly think "eww."
hhiipp
07-16-2004, 05:25 PM
Sell Karlo and replace him with Dean. Screw the defence, with the way the market is--People will see that "wretched" passing and instantly think "eww."
I agree, if you train him up to say brilliant, you're looking at a good 400 - 650k less for Karlo due to his wretched passing.
Cosmicjello
07-16-2004, 05:53 PM
I agree, if you train him up to say brilliant, you're looking at a good 400 - 650k less for Karlo due to his wretched passing.
Is weak passing really worth 400-650k? What if Karlo is a "high" wretched and Dean is a "low" weak. Then there's only the difference of poor.

I might be the only one, but I'll keep the 400-650k buy the guy with wretched passing and two "buys" or "saves" later depending on how you look at it, I'll have another 800k-1.3 mil to invest on other improvements while there's a guy out there who might be slightly better.

I think this stems back to a conversation cheetum? started about the importance or lack of importance of secondaries for higher level players.

In the long run, after 10 starters they'll pay 4 - 6.5 million more :eek: for an average passing skill of weak, maybe inadequate. Compared to a wretched or poor.

But if they've got the cash to burn, they can spend it on my guys! :D
hhiipp
07-16-2004, 06:43 PM
Is weak passing really worth 400-650k? What if Karlo is a "high" wretched and Dean is a "low" weak. Then there's only the difference of poor.
Just did some quick searching, brilliant/wretched are almost all in the area of 2.5 million, brilliant/poor are almost all in the area of 2.8 million, brilliant/weak in the area of 3.2 million
Cosmicjello
07-16-2004, 10:35 PM
How about we examine this for just a moment.

Here are 3 players currently on the transfer market w/wretched passing and 3 w/passable passing. In the search I tried to find the least amout of other secondaries possible.


In Romania

Nuno Ribeiro (22736353)
19 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is fiery and upright.
Has disastrous experience and weak leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>weak </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>poor </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>wretched </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>poor </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>weak </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Best game, 4 stars. Transfer compare ranges from 2.55 mil to 4 mil


In Isreal

Lajos Varga (10937537)
21 years, passable form, healthy
A controversial person who is fiery and honest.
Has poor experience and passable leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>inadequate </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>poor </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>wretched </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>wretched </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>poor </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>poor</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Best game, 4 stars. Transfer compare from 2.995 mil to 3 mil


In USA

Ciprian Neagu (14845761)
20 years, inadequate form, healthy
A controversial person who is tranquil and dishonest.
Has poor experience and poor leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>solid </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>poor </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>wretched </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>poor </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>weak </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Best game, 4 stars. Transfer compare: 2.5 - 3.162 mil


In Isreal

Fredrik Paulsson (17639972)
20 years, excellent form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is temperamental and upright.
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>inadequate </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>weak </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>passable </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>weak </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>poor </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>inadequate</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Best match, 5 stars. Transfer compare: 3 - 4 mil


In Solvenija

Cristi Marin (13279087)
22 years, passable form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is calm and upright.
Has weak experience and poor leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>solid </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>wretched </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>passable </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>weak </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>weak </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>passable</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Best Match, 4.5 stars. Transfer compare: 3.8 mil


In Spain


José Aguilo (16337476)
21 years, inadequate form, healthy
A sympathetic guy who is temperamental and dishonest.
Has poor experience and weak leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>passable </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>inadequate </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>passable </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>weak </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>weak </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>wretched </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Best match: 4.5 stars. No comparisons


In Sweden

Erland Bengtsen (22513812)
19 years, solid form, healthy
A pleasant guy who is balanced and upright.
Has wretched experience and poor leadership abilities.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Stamina: </TD><TD>wretched </TD><TD>Goaltending: </TD><TD>disastrous </TD></TR><TR><TD>Playmaking: </TD><TD>poor </TD><TD>Passing: </TD><TD>passable </TD></TR><TR><TD>Winger: </TD><TD>wretched </TD><TD>Defending: </TD><TD>inadequate </TD></TR><TR><TD>Scoring: </TD><TD>brilliant </TD><TD>Set Pieces: </TD><TD>weak </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Best match: 4.5 stars Transfer compare: 3.22 - 3.75 mil

So to sum it up. You can get a brilliant/wretched for 2.55 mil and a brilliant passable for 3 mil. Then up to 4 mil, for both. And for what? Half a star better or 1 star in 1 case. And we aren't talking about the difference between wretched - weak but wretched - passable.

Now I know as a buyer, looking at this type of information, I have no hesitations to get the brilliant/wretched and save the dough especially seeing how much I can save in the long run.

But again, maybe I'm the only one. :)
Matt2You
07-17-2004, 03:56 AM
I have two outstanding strikers. Outstanding/Poor cost me 1,632,000 and Outstanding/Weak cost me 1,530,000 (2,095,560 seems to be the avg. for outstanding now). The weak has a wretched something.... Anyways, so what? I wouldn't buy the norm. price for a Brilliant/Wretched... I'd stay in the market long enough to get a good deal on a better striker.

Anyways--Consider what you are arguing. It doesn't matter if it is a better buy, Qwikshot is SELLING... and the seller wants the most money; they don't want ya to get it at a bargain/cheap.
Cosmicjello
07-17-2004, 05:44 AM
I have two outstanding strikers. Outstanding/Poor cost me 1,632,000 and Outstanding/Weak cost me 1,530,000 (2,095,560 seems to be the avg. for outstanding now). The weak has a wretched something.... Anyways, so what? I wouldn't buy the norm. price for a Brilliant/Wretched... I'd stay in the market long enough to get a good deal on a better striker.

Anyways--Consider what you are arguing. It doesn't matter if it is a better buy, Qwikshot is SELLING... and the seller wants the most money; they don't want ya to get it at a bargain/cheap.
Good point, how quickly we lose focus trying to be right!! :p