Why are eight editions of one text book needed?

[GoldenEagle]

For my Principles of Managment class, I have to buy a $120 book that just came out (so no used copies). The thing is, this the 8th edition of the book. Has managment really changes thta much since that it would require 8th editions (the last coming in 2002). I just dont get it. The only way this is going to change is if the institutions step up and make it change which will never happen.

It sucks having to spend your entire loan check on books.

[sooner333]

I know of a professor that will pay students $5 an error to find errors in his book so that he can release a new edition and make more money. They don't make money on the sale of used copies (the bookstores do), so they have an interest in making more editions.

[GoldenEagle]

I think I may buy the 7th editiion for $7. I know it will be different, but the text is practically the same.80% of the class is exams and I can always get with someone on homework assignments.

[Tigercat]

I think I may buy the 7th editiion for $7. I know it will be different, but the text is practically the same.80% of the class is exams and I can always get with someone on homework assignments.

Thats what I always do in situations like this. (Buy the lesser edition if the prices are that far apart.) I always figured that if I paid enough attention in class and studied the material I had, at WORST the lesser addition could cost a couple of questions or essay points here and there, meaning at worst maybe a point or two on the final grade. A risk I was always willing to take to save 50+ bucks.

[Ragone]

I'd be careful.. my friends have told me stories of prof's doing "book checks" lately.

Maybe thats just the cheap local kc area colleges.. but who knows..

[CraigSca]

Book checks?! WTH is that?! Since when is it a crime against the professor when the student can't afford the $120 book? As long as the student earns the grade by learning the content of the course, what's the big deal?

[Philliesfan980]

Because college professors have nothing better to do with their time. Don't get me started. Most of them are lazy hippies who can't hack it in the corporate world.

[Samdari]

I'd be careful.. my friends have told me stories of prof's doing "book checks" lately.

Maybe thats just the cheap local kc area colleges.. but who knows..

The thing is, they can't require you to buy the books. What does a book check do?

[Ragone]

true.. but they can grade down on you because of it (not on the record of course)

[CraigSca]

That's really neat, Rag. It's good to see professors understand the big picture. Sigh.

[MIJB#19]

Because college professors have nothing better to do with their time. Don't get me started. Most of them are lazy hippies who can't hack it in the corporate world.Am I glad it's vice versa in The Hague, most chose to teach rather then they dropped out and had.

$120 on a book, does suck.
I had a teacher/prof/whatever who defended and partily advised students to get copies of pages of a 100 Euro book of which we needed about 25% of the content for the exams. She did claim the book was a can't miss for your book case in the IT market, but 100 Euro on one book is too much to ask for students.

[cuervo72]

In college I took a mechanisms of animal behavior class, and the book for the class was written by the professor. Or rather, it was *being* written by the professor. So for the first 3/5 of the class or so, he would hand out photocopies of the proof, chapter by chapter, and would give extra credit for finding mistakes. Well, later in the course the book came out, he stopped handing out the photocopies, and expected us to buy the $70 (or so) book. Bit of a bastard move there, IMO. Of course, I didn't buy the book (I never really read the photocopied chapters anyway....)

[Blackadar]

The thing is, they can't require you to buy the books. What does a book check do?

If you don't have the proper and required tools, quite often Profs can kick you out of class.

[clintl]

In college I took a mechanisms of animal behavior class, and the book for the class was written by the professor. Or rather, it was *being* written by the professor. So for the first 3/5 of the class or so, he would hand out photocopies of the proof, chapter by chapter, and would give extra credit for finding mistakes. Well, later in the course the book came out, he stopped handing out the photocopies, and expected us to buy the $70 (or so) book. Bit of a bastard move there, IMO. Of course, I didn't buy the book (I never really read the photocopied chapters anyway....)

Whenever we used photocopies of notes or books that hadn't yet been published, we had to buy the photocopies anyway. There were no freebies.

[Logan]

I just came back from the bookstore. One class was reasonably priced (there were 2 books, but they weren't actual hardcover textbooks, for about $60 total). Another book I will be sharing with one of my roommates who is in a different section than I am in (we did the same thing for another class last semester and didn't have any problems as far as both of us needing it at the same time), so that will cost me $50 instead of $100. A third class, another one of my roommates has the books because he took the class last year, and wanted to keep the books because they are relevant for his major and could be helpful this year, so he'll loan them to me.

For my International Business class, the book was $126.50 new, and ONLY $97 used (of course, not one used copy to be found). My Organizational Behavior book was set at $110 new (no used price offered). I picked up the International editions (softcover, black and white print, but same exact content) for about $70 total. If you've never used the Int'l editions in the past, they really are exactly the same and a great value, since generally you can sell them online after your class is over for about the same that you paid for them.

So it looks like my books this semster are going to run me $180. Which is a miracle.

[Joe]

I've never bought a textbook in my 4 years in college. I just borrow other people's books and photocopy what is needed.

[Tigercat]

I've never bought a textbook in my 4 years in college. I just borrow other people's books and photocopy what is needed.

Never bought books? No wonder you only got Cs. Maybe if you would have studied instead of cheerleading....

[RainRaven]

I am buying my college books for the fall semester on saturday... I hope it's not much but that will be dashed quickly I am sure.

[JimboJ]

The worst thing is when they have to update math textbooks to new editions. Math??? How exactly does math change?? I understand it with subjects like science and history, but mosly I think its a way for publishers to make more money.

[RPI-Fan]

Because college professors have nothing better to do with their time. Don't get me started. Most of them are lazy hippies who can't hack it in the corporate world.

Any a hell of a lot more are more brilliant and innovative than those in the corporate world.:rolleyes:

[Danny]

but mosly I think its a way for publishers to make more money.

Not mostly, it's all about that.

[Raven Hawk]

One of the (4) colleges that I went to had a book loan program. They'd buy the books and you'd check them out. At the end of the semester you'd have to pay for damaged or lost books. It usually ran about $5 a book for standard highlighting. But if you never used it, you basically didn't have to pay for it. If you liked the text book so much, you could buy it at the end of the semester for retail price. I loved that program, especially after suffering through the book purchase process at the two prior schools.

[lurker]

The worst thing is when they have to update math textbooks to new editions. Math??? How exactly does math change?? I understand it with subjects like science and history, but mosly I think its a way for publishers to make more money.

Actually, there are these people out there called mathematicians who are developing new theorems and ideas that should be in books. What, should we say all math advancement should have stopped at calculus or something so that they wouldn't have to make new books?

Although, if it's a lower level class and there's a new edition out every year (usually isn't that often though) I'd see your point.

[Fonzie]

Because college professors have nothing better to do with their time. Don't get me started. Most of them are lazy hippies who can't hack it in the corporate world.

Um...I'm a professor.

I've never heard of any of my colleagues doing a "book check", and everyone I know would consider that draconian. I, for one, only care that students get the required text because I think it will help them to learn the material. And I spend a fair amount of time evaluating the texts (with cost in mind) so that I can make a principled choice that is fair to all. But its fine by me if they choose not to get the text.

With regard to your broader point about college professors: I'm not sure where you went to school, but your professors don't strike me as representative of the professoriate as a whole. Most PhD-level graduate training is very challenging work that requires considerable sacrifice to complete. To rail on the entire group as "lazy" and "unable to hack it in the corporate world" is, in my opinion, unfair, misinformed and dead wrong. Some of us might've chosen the academic world because we don't like the corporate world, but many (if not most) certaily could hack it if they wanted to.

Oh, and I'm not a hippie either, FWIW.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had bad experiences with professors, and you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I'd ask that you reconsider generalizing your unique experiences to the profession (which is really just a large, loose collection of dozens of professions) as a whole. Its simply not fair to those of us who work hard and try our best to do right by our students.

[Franklinnoble]

You a professor at UofA, Fonz? What do you teach?

[Fonzie]

You a professor at UofA, Fonz? What do you teach?

No, that's where I did my graduate training, internship and postdoc. I recently moved to Illinois to take a faculty position in the UofI system, but never got around to changing the "Location" in my user profile. In that sense I am in fact a lazy professor. ;)

I'm a psychologist, so I teach psych classes. I did teach a bit while at the UofA, including Introduction to Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, and Biopsychology. Fun stuff. :)

[Honolulu Blue]

Ah, college days. Most of my memories of that time were fond. Book buying was not.

Why do revised editions of textbooks come out so quickly?

a) The publishers only make profits on new books, and
b) Professors don't have to buy books, so most of them don't care how much they cost.

[Fonzie]

b) Professors don't have to buy books, so most of them don't care how much they cost.

Again, that might be true for some (many?) professors, but there are some of us that remember what it was like to buy books as poor undergrads and take that into consideration when selecting texts.

[scooter]

Hey Fonzie, is that U of I in Chicago or Urbana-Champaign? I went to UIUC about ten years ago.

I think a lot of it has to do with what your major happens to be. I was in architecture so we got hit twice. We had to buy books at the beginning of the semester for our classes (arch history, structures, construction, etc.) and then throughout the semester we had to buy materials and supplies for our design projects (some of these can get quite expensive). We were always grumbling about people with "normal" majors and the fact that they just had to buy books. :)

[Logan]

With regard to your broader point about college professors: I'm not sure where you went to school, but your professors don't strike me as representative of the professoriate as a whole. Most PhD-level graduate training is very challenging work that requires considerable sacrifice to complete. To rail on the entire group as "lazy" and "unable to hack it in the corporate world" is, in my opinion, unfair, misinformed and dead wrong. Some of us might've chosen the academic world because we don't like the corporate world, but many (if not most) certaily could hack it if they wanted to.

I'll whole-heartedly agree with this. Just last semester, I had a first-year professor who I loved and thought was a great instructor. She left the corporate world just because she wanted to try something new. And she probably left at the right time...she was the CFO of a branch of Tyco and worked directly under Dennis Kozloski.

[cuervo72]

Actually, there are these people out there called mathematicians who are developing new theorems and ideas that should be in books. What, should we say all math advancement should have stopped at calculus or something so that they wouldn't have to make new books?

Although, if it's a lower level class and there's a new edition out every year (usually isn't that often though) I'd see your point.

I would imagine that only the highest level math courses (graduate level) would be dealing with new mathematical theorems...I can't imagine geometry, trig, calc , linear algebra, diff eq etc. courses would require updating, at least not very often. How many college students even go beyond calculus? Even for some engineering majors, you may need a couple of courses in Analysis...but that's about it.

[lurker]

Integration by parts is a first semester calculus concept, and a new way to do it (if needed to do repeatedly) came out within the last twenty years, I believe. This is just one example, and the only reason I know it is that a professor at my school developed it. I knew of a few other new concepts in my applied (undergrad) math classes as well. I'm sure there's plenty of other similar, more recent developments.

[Daimyo]

While it won't help as much with brand new books www.addall.com is an absolute must for college students. I also highly reccomend doing some investigative work to see if there is a European/UK edition of the textbook. Often you can get those for < 30%-50% of the price of the US edition (sometimes they even have softcover editions in Europe that are much lighter to carry around).

[lurker]

I would imagine that only the highest level math courses (graduate level) would be dealing with new mathematical theorems...I can't imagine geometry, trig, calc , linear algebra, diff eq etc. courses would require updating, at least not very often. How many college students even go beyond calculus? Even for some engineering majors, you may need a couple of courses in Analysis...but that's about it.

Also, I don't think geometry and trig should really fall into the category of typical undergrad math classes. Those are usually taken in high school, and anyway I did say lower level classes shouldn't really need much updating.

[Fonzie]

Hey Fonzie, is that U of I in Chicago or Urbana-Champaign? I went to UIUC about ten years ago.

Neither! I'm at the University of Illinois at Springfield, which is the third and mostly unknown of the UofI campuses - mostly because it has only been around for about nine years. The UofI has been aggressively building the Springfield campus and is adopting the "public liberal arts" model for it, which is exactly what I was looking for when I hit the job market. I've only been here a few weeks, but it strikes me as a very good place for both students and teaching-oriented faculty.

[cuervo72]

Usually taken by anyone looking for a technical degree yes, but I'd say that at any number of schools you might have students taking them in a more remidial fashion (not to mention community colleges, etc).

And I don't know if I'd consider a development from 20 years ago "new"; I don't know how many courses are using 20 year old textbooks.

[Franklinnoble]

Neither! I'm at the University of Illinois at Springfield...
Say hello to Principal Skinner and Superintendent Chalmers for me, willya?

[Fonzie]

Say hello to Principal Skinner and Superintendent Chalmers for me, willya?

I was very disappointed to learn that they didn't have a Moe's Tavern here. :(

[Franklinnoble]

I was very disappointed to learn that they didn't have a Moe's Tavern here. :(
Write a letter to Quimby about it...

[finkenst]

Neither! I'm at the University of Illinois at Springfield, which is the third and mostly unknown of the UofI campuses - mostly because it has only been around for about nine years. The UofI has been aggressively building the Springfield campus and is adopting the "public liberal arts" model for it, which is exactly what I was looking for when I hit the job market. I've only been here a few weeks, but it strikes me as a very good place for both students and teaching-oriented faculty.
state capitol and not a good public university about. I can't imagine why they'd be dumping money there.. and it's not even chicago...:mad:


disclaimer: i live in peoria, il.

[finkenst]

Integration by parts is a first semester calculus concept, and a new way to do it (if needed to do repeatedly) came out within the last twenty years, I believe. This is just one example, and the only reason I know it is that a professor at my school developed it. I knew of a few other new concepts in my applied (undergrad) math classes as well. I'm sure there's plenty of other similar, more recent developments.
i heart lurker.


i went to school as a math major. I think i was a bit lucky as the class after mine always had to buy new books and i got to use used books for my math classes.

as for using new editions, don't these books usually wear out rather quickly?

[Pyser]

people, dont you have libraries where you go to school?

my first semester, freshman year i fell for the "buy books" scam. never again.

[finkenst]

people, dont you have libraries where you go to school?

my first semester, freshman year i fell for the "buy books" scam. never again.
yep.. in the town of 12k+a few grumpy old men (sign on the way into town).. we had libraries with college textbooks.



/sarcasm

[ntndeacon]

In terms of math books, not only do you have new theorems that are useful in lower level classes, but you also have new approaches to teaching the subjects. In new editions I could see topics being presented in a more streamlined manner that the author did not see earlier. Also new historical information, to show where and when concepts came from, and possibly where the lead to. Putting in a bit about Fermat's Last Theorem, after talking about the Pythagorean Theorem, as an example.