OT: Baseball Cards sets I'm working on

[Buccaneer]

There have been some discussion recently about baseball cards and I know that there are a few collectors here. I started collecting in 1970, was heavily involved in the 1980s and for the past year, I have been very active in working on my collection - to the point that I really don't play much games anymore. There is so many sets that I love to work on, even going back to the 19th century, but as with most active collectors, it is best to narrow ones focus. The five sets that I am working on are: 1957, 1961, 1963, 1964 and 1965 - all Topps baseball. Anyway, I don't get much of a chance to talk about this hobby here, so I thought I would show you some samples from each of those vintage sets.

The 1957 Topps set is considered one of the all-time classics and quite popular due to its stunning design of a full-card photo. It is an expensive set to work on but if I were to choose one set from the 1950s, with its many 1940s/1950s HoF and star players, this is the one to do (unless you have deep pockets, then you can do the great 1952 Topps set). Here is Whitey Herzog's rookie card, as well as Moe Drabowsky of the Cubs.

1957 Herzog and Drabowsky (http://users.adelphia.net/~ouray2/images/57herzog-moe.JPG)

[Buccaneer]

The 1961 Topps set is probably my favorite, all least of the ones that I am working on. Sharp color photos framed by a black border with a colorful bottom banner. The set is notable for its FIVE Mickey Mantle cards, the League Leader, Mantle's Series Homer, the regular issue, the MVP card and the High Number All-Star card. These subsets, plus one which covers great moments in baseball, make the set chock full of stars and HOFers. Here is the Stan Musial card and Roger Maris' AS card from his astounding 1961 season.

1961 Musial and Maris AS (http://users.adelphia.net/~ouray2/images/61musial-marisas.JPG)

[Swaggs]

Hey Steve... Neat stuff. I've been thinking about getting back into collecting again, but the price and sheer volume of different products, particularly the new ones, kind of frightens me away. Maybe going for sets as you are doing is the way to go.

A few questions. What are you doing as far as acquiring them (hobby shops, ebay, etc?)? What type of spending rules or budget have you set for yourself? What are you doing as far as storage (binders, boxes, etc.) and what type of space is it taking up in your house?

[Buccaneer]

The 1963 Topps set is known for the Pete Rose rookie card. The set features sharp color photos, deep varied colored borders, and sharp clean backs. Mickey Mantle cards have been called the 'King of Baseball Cards' because all of his cards are usually the key cards of any set (excepting key rookie cards) and his cards still command top dollar on the market. Here is his 1963 cards along with one of my very favorite cards, The Pride of N.L. showing Mays and Musial (I love these combo cards).

1963 Mantle and Pride of NL (http://users.adelphia.net/~ouray2/images/63mantle-pride.JPG)
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[Buccaneer]

The 1964 Topps set is probably my second favorite, after 1961, because I just love the design of the big block-lettered team name and the photos bleeding into the top edge. The backs have a distinctive white letters on bright orange background design. Included here are Pete Rose (his second card) and the fantastic NL HR League Leaders. What I love about league leader cards is that they usually ended up showing multiple HoFers on a single card, as in this case with Aaron, McCovey, Mays and Cepeda (one of the very few vintage cards showing 4 HoFers, besides the team cards).

1964 Rose and NL HR Ldr (http://users.adelphia.net/~ouray2/images/64rose-hrldr.JPG)

[Buccaneer]

The 1965 Topps set ranks high as a collectors favorite, combining great color photos with a colorful border frame and pennant motif - along with a really nice classic blue background on the back. Shown here is another Pete Rose card along with Phil Niekro's 2nd rookie card. Niekro also has a rookie card in the 1964 set and both are quite popular. But this is not close to a record for Lou Pinella appears on 5 rookie cards (scattered from 1963 to 1969, I believe).

1965 Rose and Niekro (http://users.adelphia.net/~ouray2/images/65rose-niekro.JPG)

[Buccaneer]

Tomorrow, I'll put up my two favorite cards of all time (hint: they're both Johnny Bench cards), as well as answer Swaggs' great questions.

[Buccaneer]

Here are my two favorite cards of Johnny Bench:

1968 and 1970 Bench (http://users.adelphia.net/~ouray2/images/68-70bench.JPG)

[cuervo72]

These are fantastic. Ahh, someday I would love to collect some of these sets from the 60's and 70's. Would take quite a bit of cash, I'd assume though.

It's funny, there are a couple of cards at my desk right now, and one of them is a '65 Houston Rookie Stars (Morgan/Sonny Jackson). Not the best condition (rated 70 by 'SBC' - now defunct), but a neat card. Too bad they didn't have a more exciting border color for Houston...

[Danny]

I own that Bench card on the right. I have a few from the 60's that my grandmother was going to throw away, but we grabbed them before she did. I'd also love to collect these at some point in the future when I have the available funds.

[Buccaneer]

Hey Steve... Neat stuff. I've been thinking about getting back into collecting again, but the price and sheer volume of different products, particularly the new ones, kind of frightens me away. Maybe going for sets as you are doing is the way to go.

A few questions. What are you doing as far as acquiring them (hobby shops, ebay, etc?)? What type of spending rules or budget have you set for yourself? What are you doing as far as storage (binders, boxes, etc.) and what type of space is it taking up in your house?
When I stopped collecting in 1990, it was because of the sheer volume of sets starting to proliferate the market at the time. My worse fear has come true in that such proliferation has exponentially increased since then. It has become so bad that the only value anyone (kids or adults) get out of packs nowadays is whether they can pull a "rare" card. From what I have seen, no one builds modern sets anymore - one either buys a set and keep it wrapped or just pull out the "expensive" card(s) and throw the rest away. Many in the hobby have said that these modern cards will become like the junk cards of the late 80s-early 90s in that they will carry no appreciable value in the future. It is so sad but I suppose I carry some of the blame as I was working a card shop in the early 80s when the first monthly price guides became popular. We made sure that every card had a monetary value and forced that upon the kids. No more personalizing cards, they now become strict commodities.

I collect vintage cards because not only are these the classic sets but they are truly scarcer collectibles due to age and the times they were produced. I would love to help you and anyone else learn more about vintage sets (which can extend up to the 1970s, with a few in the early 1980s).

As far as current acquisitions, 99% of all cards transacted in the US are bought and sold on eBay. In the past 7 years, more than half of the card shops in the US have closed down. The ones that are remaining only sell the plethora of modern issues. When I started back in last year, I bought on eBay but after wasting much time and money, I got off of that. Now I buy directly from a few dealers online that I trust and got to know well. Most of us that are building raw/graded vintage sets do the same thing - except they all do sell on eBay but only occassionally buy. There have been and still are so much altered cards out on eBay that it becomes risky to even buy anything, unless you know the seller.

As far as budget, it is always good to have one! In the PSA forum, it is common to claim most of us as part of an insane asylum for the obsession and folly of paying lots of money for pieces of cardboards. There are quite a bit of competition for the truly nice conditioned cards, to the point that it becomes unbelievable what are some of the prices collectors pay. A budget can be as little or as much as you want. Even for $50 a month (for example), one can slowly but surely start to build a nice vintage set.

Storage became a key issue starting in the 1980s when conditions of the cards mattered. Nowadays, condition (as seen in the graded cards I showed above) solely determines the value of the card. For those of us that collected in the 1950s/60s/70s and threw rubber bands around the cards or tossed them in a shoebox, we laugh at how stored those cards. All of my raw cards, particularly of the sets I am building, are individually stored in a clear plastic card sleeve and then inserted into rigid top-loader. They are placed in a hard plastic box that can hold top loaders. I used to do those 9-slot plastic pages in the 1980s but getting those cards in and out of those cause slight corner damage. For the more expensive raw cards, I use One Touch hard plastic holders. The graded cards of course come in a hard plastic slab that is sonically sealed to preserve condition. It's too bad that we have become so obsessed with condition that we cannot even touch a card anymore. That 1957 Whitey Herzog card shown above is currently in Near Mint condition and valued at $30. If I take that card and move it into another holder and accidently nick the corner while doing so, it ceases to become a Near Mint $30 card and will become a $10-15 Ex-ExMt card.

As far as space, it was a good thing that I recently concentrated on building those 5 sets. Even with each card in its own holder, they won't take up that much room. However, I still a lot of other cards, from the 70s and 80s. Two years ago, I had over 60,000 cards just from the 1980s that were in 9 Banker Boxes in my home office closet. 59,975 of those cards were then either donated to Goodwill or thrown in the trash. These were mostly cards from 1987-1990 and the total value probably was (and still is) about $7.65. Now I have 9 less Banker Boxes! I think that's the key, narrow your focus and don't buy any of the new cards. Lol.

Please let me know if you have any other questions, I will be glad to help.

[Buccaneer]

These are fantastic. Ahh, someday I would love to collect some of these sets from the 60's and 70's. Would take quite a bit of cash, I'd assume though.

It's funny, there are a couple of cards at my desk right now, and one of them is a '65 Houston Rookie Stars (Morgan/Sonny Jackson). Not the best condition (rated 70 by 'SBC' - now defunct), but a neat card. Too bad they didn't have a more exciting border color for Houston...
Joe Morgan is one of my top 5 favorite players all-time and remembered buying that card at an LA show in 1984 for $8. However, I would grade that card that I have as ExMt because it has an annoying print defect caused by a splotch of blank ink. Since the sets that I am building have to be NM or better, I still have to go out and find a replacement one. Fortunately they do come up on eBay regularly, like this one - 1965 Morgan PSA 7 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55922&item=5120614340&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW). It's a nice card and one of my very favorites.

[Buccaneer]

Addendum:

Speaking of the 65 Morgan rookie card, here's a typical eBay controversy that just came up:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=319955

[cubboyroy1826]

Hey Buc what dealers do you use? I am beginning to work on a 1967 set (year i was born), and i need a couple of reliable sources for the cards. I owned a sportscard shop for a few year up until 1995 when i sold it. I got really turned off by how the business was going and got a fair offer so i took the money and ran. i think the shop lasted a couple years after i sold it. Thanks for your help and good luck with your sets.

[Logan]

BTW, if anybody is looking for cards from the 50's (with the most being between 1955 and 1957), let me know. My father is looking to sell a large portion of his collection (pretty much everything besides his complete 1956 Topps set), and I would have no problem taking digital pics of the cards and sending them to you if interested.

[Buccaneer]

Hey Buc what dealers do you use? I am beginning to work on a 1967 set (year i was born), and i need a couple of reliable sources for the cards. I owned a sportscard shop for a few year up until 1995 when i sold it. I got really turned off by how the business was going and got a fair offer so i took the money and ran. i think the shop lasted a couple years after i sold it. Thanks for your help and good luck with your sets.cubboyroy, I would strongly recommend Mickey Campbell of Mickey's (http://www.mickeyssportscards.com). He is a friend and the one that I have been doing over 90% of my purchasing from this year. He has good deals on raw and graded and perhaps has the best reputation for customer service as anyone in the hobby. Here are the links to his 1960s selections (http://sales.mickeyssportscards.com/stores/mickeys/Search.bok?category=Baseball_Sixties_sets).

By the way, I really wanted to do the 1967 set but when I narrowed it down to 5 sets, that year ended up #6 on my list. I would still love to work on this set for it is a beautiful set and it has the Seaver rookie card.

[cubboyroy1826]

Thanks for the link. How do Mickey's prices compare to others? What did you decide on for the minimum level of quality on your sets? Why did you decide to go with that? I like the 67 set although the Seaver card will be pricey. I also will try to work on the 69 set. I really like the 63 Fleer set, but way to pricey and the look of the 65 set.

[Chubby]

87 was the beginning of the end IMO. That's when they really started over producing the cards, add to that that I think I got approx 1 Wayne Krenchiki card per pack of 87 Topps.

[cubboyroy1826]

At one point i had a pretty nice 1975 set but i have no clue what happened to it. I spent 4 years in the Army and remember coming home to a huge box of cards my mom had "consolidated" I still have 3 Walter Payton rookies and some older Cubbies but that is about it these days. Do you ever go to card shows to pickup misc cards? I remember every Friday you could find a small card show somewhere, dont know if they are that frequent any more.

[cuervo72]

Addendum:

Speaking of the 65 Morgan rookie card, here's a typical eBay controversy that just came up:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=319955


Yikes. It's stuff like that that would dissuade me from collecting more seriously...(besides not having the money to).

[clintl]

Great stuff - I love that card with Aaron, McCovey, Mays, and Cepeda. Maris looked like he's stoned on the 1961 card.

[cubboyroy1826]

Hey Buc can you drop me an email i would like to ask you some questions. My address is roy dot mortgage at comcast dot net. Thanks.

[Buccaneer]

87 was the beginning of the end IMO. That's when they really started over producing the cards, add to that that I think I got approx 1 Wayne Krenchiki card per pack of 87 Topps.
You got that right. I remembered paying $4.25 each for 5 Mike Greenwell 87T cards. That was really stupid. I have about 18 Bonds and 17 McGwires from that year and even though they are considered 'rookie' cards (being their first regular Topps issues), they are not worth that much.

[Buccaneer]

Yikes. It's stuff like that that would dissuade me from collecting more seriously...(besides not having the money to).
Nah, you just have to set your sights realistically. There are some that trying to build the best graded sets possible (thanks to the PSA Set Registry) and therefore, competition for low pop PSA 8, as well as most PSA 9 and 10 is very fierce. I come in under the radar at mostly PSA 7 with some PSA 8. However, just today I decided to lower my sights on the 1957 Topps set to predominantly PSA 7/NM commons and PSA 6/ExMt stars. For that set (and for 1950s sets in general), that seems more realistic, budget-wise.

[Chubby]

You got that right. I remembered paying $4.25 each for 5 Mike Greenwell 87T cards. That was really stupid. I have about 18 Bonds and 17 McGwires from that year and even though they are considered 'rookie' cards (being their first regular Topps issues), they are not worth that much.

Yup, the last year that the actual set is worth anything is 85 (the real Big Mac rookie, Clemens, etc...)

I too used to collect cards a lot more years ago but stopped when it started going completely out of control with the rares being the only cards of value. If I want to gamble on odds I'll go to the casino.

[Buccaneer]

Yup, the last year that the actual set is worth anything is 85 (the real Big Mac rookie, Clemens, etc...)

I too used to collect cards a lot more years ago but stopped when it started going completely out of control with the rares being the only cards of value. If I want to gamble on odds I'll go to the casino.
You understand the current market very well. And people gripe when I talk about the good 'ole days? :)

[Chubby]

You understand the current market very well. And people gripe when I talk about the good 'ole days? :)

They weren't even that good but I'd take the early 80s over the mess that is the market today. I really hope that a bunch of the companies go out of business and we can get back to a time with 3-ish card makers. 90% of the cards are worthless, there's no point in trying to buy rookie cards of players you think will turn out great because they will always be worthless since there's approx. 3 billion copies of every non rare card. it grates me because things have totally changed for the worse.

[samifan24]

The only cards I "collect" at this point are the ultra-cheap, readily available Topps Total brand. I collect them for the sole purpose of mailing them out for autographs. It's cheap and helps fuel my hobby so I'm happy.


FWIW, I agree with those of you who said that too many card companies/chase cards flooding the market have hurt the hobby. While I'm only 21, I fondly recall the days of non-insert cards and $1 or $2 packs. I stopped collecting when I was 13 or 14 because Fleer released its Flair brand and that was, in my opinion, the beginning of the end for the hobby, as companies shifted more and more towards the ultra-rare 1/1 insert type cards.

[WSUCougar]

If anyone is looking for anything in particular from Topps 1970 thru the mid-1980s, let me know. I don't have complete sets but collected pretty well back then.

[cubboyroy1826]

Hey WSU i am looking for cards from the 1975 set and the 1985 set. Drop me an email at roy dot mortgage at comcast dot net. Thanks.