Angels-Red Sox Thread

[Chief Rum]

Hey, there are only four divisional series, so I figured a thread like this wouldn't hurt. Besides, I figure there are enough Red Sox fans to keep this one alive, even if it's just me and them talking.

I like Boston, and I am scared of Boston. They have a terrific lineup again, and they have dominant starting pitching. That's a lethal combination int he playoffs.

What the Angels have is momentum, and the concept that the team they have now is not what they have had all year (Glaus is healthy, GA is gimpy, but hitting with some power again, the starting pitching has solidifed). But then we also don't have Guillen, so does that counter the offensive gains elsewhere?

As I said, I like Boston. In fact, I picked them to win the Series in my preseason predictions. I thought they would be AL East champs, though.

Despite liking Boston, there's some history here that adds some enmity to the Angels' side. People still remember '86. So do the Sox, but that's because of Buckner. Very rarely when they are talking about how he blew the Series for them, do they mention they themselves were a strike away from not even going to the World Series. Blasted Dave Henderson. :)

I'm looking forward to a good series. Good luck, gentlemen.

CR

[SirFozzie]

What I hate is how everybody's talking about how the Angels are the hottest team in the Major Leagues entering this series..

Um.. hello?

What I really hate is the lingering after effects of this cold means my voice is 100% gone :D

[Chief Rum]

I honetsly don't know how the Red Sox have done lately, nor can I guess if it will matter. I know they were hot early in the month (considering you guys swept us), but since they were locked into the wildcard (and really you knew you had the WC as early as after sweeping us and Oakland), I don't know that the Sox have felt much need to press forwsard outside of the Yankees' series.

So I don't know if even knowing how the BoSox have down recently matters coming into the postseason, because the ffort they have likely been putting out recently won't match what they will put out in the postseason.

That said, the Angels are hot right now. You must have missed the last week. :)

CR

P.S. They aren't blow 'em out hot, though, just "we win anyway we can" hot.

[Bomber]

The Angels have been on a tear and have the best bullpen in the AL. Plus they've got the AL MVP. The series is their's for the taking.

[Bomber]

What I hate is how everybody's talking about how the Angels are the hottest team in the Major Leagues entering this series..

Um.. hello?

What I really hate is the lingering after effects of this cold means my voice is 100% gone :D

The Red Sox are the hottest team in the Majors? After losing every game that actually mattered to the Yanks except a miracle win off Riveria in the ninth? Oh wait they did beat the crap out of a rehabing Kevin Brown and Esteban Loiaza, watch out. And Pedro he's been on fire. When he's on the mound its a lock the Sox will win, just ask the DRays.

[BishopMVP]

The Red Sox are the hottest team in the Majors?Houston Astros.

[SoxWin]

The Rally Monkey is about to get bitch slapped.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The Red Sox are the hottest team in the Majors? After losing every game that actually mattered to the Yanks except a miracle win off Riveria in the ninth? Oh wait they did beat the crap out of a rehabing Kevin Brown and Esteban Loiaza, watch out.Are you suggesting the latter two wins didn't matter? The Yanks finished strong when Minnesota didn't put up much of a fight, but at the start of the NYY-Minn series, the Sox were still in it (and it looked even better with Santana starting).

The Sox won seven of their last nine after a 20 game stretch of 0.500 ball. Which, coincidentally, is about what the Angels did over the same number of games.

And the AL MVP plays LF for the Red Sox. :p

[McSweeny]

The Sox won seven of their last nine after a 20 game stretch of 0.500 ball. Which, coincidentally, is about what the Angels did over the same number of games.

beat me to it. I'm not at all worried about Pedro. He actually pitched very well in 2 out of the 4 starts he lost in a row. And he would have held the Yankees to just one run in seven innings were it not for some bad calls, an untimely error, and a (somewhat) bone headed managing decision. I fully expect him to come out and shut the Angels down

[Fouts]

Sox smacked all the Angel starters around this year. It's not going to be pretty.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Some games they did, some games they didn't. Angel starters have been performing better of late, particularly at the top of the rotation, and Sox starters have been performing worse of late, except for Schilling.

[Chief Rum]

The team ERAs against each other this year were both in the 6's. I expect it could be a high scoring series. :)

Even when you guys swept us in September, we scored a ton of runs.

CR

[McSweeny]

I was just watching the Red Sox rally at Fenway park on NESN. And i must say i cannot wait. I am already starting to get nervous. I've got my routine down and i'm prepared to be an emotional wreck until the parade

[Godzilla Blitz]

Another Red Sox fan checking in. Good luck to the Angels. I wish we were playing the A's instead. The Angels scare me.

I have to say that I'm disappointed though: I was really hoping for a Red Sox/Twins matchup. I live in Minnesota and bought four ALDS/ALCS/World Series strips of tickets in hopes of that happening. Friday I'll go watch the Yankees/Twins instead. Sigh.

Could still get that Red Sox/Twins matchup if the Twins can beat the Yankees and the Red Sox can get by the Angels, but for a while it looked like I'd be at the Twins/Red Sox tomorrow night.

[MrBug708]

This series is very reminisant to the Series in 2002, Angels vs Yankees. The BoSox are favored because of a high powered offense with good top of the rotation starters vs the upstart Angels.

I see it the very same way

[Mr. Wednesday]

There's one important difference -- the Sox are good and the Yankees were (and are) evil. :p

[Chief Rum]

This series is very reminisant to the Series in 2002, Angels vs Yankees. The BoSox are favored because of a high powered offense with good top of the rotation starters vs the upstart Angels.

I see it the very same way

I think you're on the mark about the "feel" of this series, Bug, but I disagree about the rotation. I felt two years ago that the Yankees were vulnerable because they didn't have what I would call shutdown pitching. That turned out to be very true.

The Red Sox, unfortunately, do have shutdown pitching. Schilling is lights out, and although Pedro has fallen off this year, he has always handled us with ease. So I am very concerned about our matchup with those pitchers. I wasn't nearly as concerned about Pettitte and Mussina two years ago.

CR

[SirFozzie]

The Hot team comment was about the fact that the Sox were a .650-.700 team the last 60 games of the year (42-18). There are question marks, but this is a team that can win pitcher's duels or slugfests.

I think this will not be EASY, but I think it'll be Sox in Four.

[Fouts]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2004/news/story?page=expertpostseasonpicks

I have it the same as Rob Neyer;

Yankees over Twins
Red Sox over Angels
Cards over Dodgers
Astros over Braves

Red Sox over Yanks
Cards over Astros

Red Sox over Cards

[VPI97]

This picture was on the front page of ESPN:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/VPI97/a_redsox_frt.jpg

Is it just me or does it look like a bottle is getting broken on Caveman's head? What is that?

[SirFozzie]

Oh.. the team that barfights together wins together I guess. :D

[KevinNU7]

This picture was on the front page of ESPN:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/VPI97/a_redsox_frt.jpg

Is it just me or does it look like a bottle is getting broken on Caveman's head? What is that?
It's a plastic bottle of water

[Desnudo]

The Red Sox are the hottest team in the Majors? After losing every game that actually mattered to the Yanks except a miracle win off Riveria in the ninth? Oh wait they did beat the crap out of a rehabing Kevin Brown and Esteban Loiaza, watch out. And Pedro he's been on fire. When he's on the mound its a lock the Sox will win, just ask the DRays.

After clubbing the Angels in a 3 game sweep in August-September in a series that mattered hugely to both, I'd say yes. It basically gave the Red Sox the Wildcard. And the Angels will need their bullpen because their subpar starting pitching is going to get clubbed.

[rlfreeze]

The Angels starting pitching has actually improved quite a bit since that series with BOS. The Angels have also shown that they can get to Pedro if they are patient. This should be a good series. With the potent offenses involved, I predict that this series will be a pitcher's duel in each game.

[SirFozzie]

Hooah! pretty fluky.. but we'll take the run!

[Solecismic]

The Red Sox have been pretty consistent this year. They did have that one great west-coast swing, but otherwise, they played well against bad teams and held their own against good teams.

The hot finish was due to that one road trip and an otherwise easy schedule.

Even with Nomar in the lineup, they were 19-18 against competition that included 29 games against teams that finished with 86 or more wins.

The media made much too much of the Nomar situation.

[Sublime]

8-0......Me LIKEY

[Ksyrup]

About what I expected - in both games.

I hope the game I actually get to watch on TV tonight is better than the blowouts fom this afternoon.

By that, of course, I mean that I hope the Twins hold a 10-run lead by the 4th inning. :D

[Desnudo]

About what I expected - in both games.

I hope the game I actually get to watch on TV tonight is better than the blowouts fom this afternoon.

By that, of course, I mean that I hope the Twins hold a 10-run lead by the 4th inning. :D

I'll drink to that!

[Desnudo]

Quite a game until the ninth. I loved how the announcers were getting all excited about Manny actually running a play out.

[McSweeny]

up 2 and we're coming back home baby!

Very tight game. Had me on the edge pretty much all night long. Hell of a job by Pedro. Bellhorn owes us for his stupidity. What bullpen work! Tight strike zone, but very consistent. Angel's defense hasn't been that great, i'm a little surprised. 2 in the morning and i'm all wound up. Yes baby! Back to Boston! Let's take care of business

[SirFozzie]

2:05 am... and I work at 8 (wake up time 6:40 am)

actual posts from me on the RedSoxNation.net board

Pre Cabrera at bat in the 9th

"Put one in the gap, OC, so we can all sleep!"

Post

"Thanks."

*thud*

zzzzzzZZzzzzzz

[Desnudo]

2:05 am... and I work at 8 (wake up time 6:40 am)

actual posts from me on the RedSoxNation.net board

Pre Cabrera at bat in the 9th

"Put one in the gap, OC, so we can all sleep!"

Post

"Thanks."

*thud*

zzzzzzZZzzzzzz

Clutch. He's the guy you least like to see up in a non-pressure situation, but two walk-off homers and that hit definitely make him a clutch hitter.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Anahiem's defense has surprised me so far. I thought they would play better. Molina looked particularly sloppy behind the plate tonight. You can't give the Red Sox offense extra outs like the Angels have in the past two games.

I didn't realize that the Angels have been hit so hard with injuries and players unable to play. They've got three starters out of the lineup. Tough handicap to overcome.

I thought I heard someone say on ESPN that this is the first time in Red Sox history that they have had a 2-0 series lead. Can that actually be true, or did I simply mishear that? It wouldn't surprise me if it were true, given the Red Sox penchant for nailbiters, but wow, all those playoff series and the Red Sox never have held a 2-0 series lead?

Tight strike zone, but very consistent.

I thought so too until Bellhorn's walk and Glaus' called strike three. Most of the time when Sciosia was complaining about the calls the ESPN strike zone thingie was showing the pitches as clearly being off the plate. Seemed consistent for both sides, but I was only watching off and on through the first half of the game so I may have missed some early inning mistakes. Bellhorn's pitch was right on the edge and wasn't a terrible miss, but the Glaus' called strike was a horrible call. I think that perhaps the ump didn't get a good look because Varitek was moving up to throw to second. It looked like he may have blocked the ump's view. I think the Red Sox caught a break on that one.

One other thing I wondered about was that Molina was repeatedly holding his glove out there too long after catching some of those close calls. You do that too much and you can really piss an ump off. Not having watched the Angels this year, I don't know if he does that consistently, but it seemed he was trying to show the ump up a bit.

[Chief Rum]

GB, the Angels have been hit by injuries all year.

Glaus missed most of the season (pretty much May through August).

Anderson was out for about a month with a mysterious arthritis, which doesn't sound serious or long until you realize it hasn't actually been cured and he has been playing through it ever since. Just look at his power numbers this year against the past four seasons, or just watch him try to run to first in this series.

Erstad missed a month and change with hamstring injuries. Molina started the year with hamstring problems and didn't play for most of April. Salmon missed a lot of time early on, then was relegated to a backup role, then hurt both his shoulder and knee and missed the last two months--and will probably all of next year as well. Percival missed a month in the middle of the season. Washburn didn't pitch from mid-July until September. Robb Quinlan, who was looking like a serious offensive threat for us in July and early August, was lost for the season just when the pennant race started heating up. A couple weeks ago, Kennedy tore two ligaments in his knee and will likely be out until June (at least).

And then there is the walking wounded, which includes Erstad with his usual assortment of nagging injuries, Guillen (pre-suspension) playing through various pains all year, Guerrero having trouble with his knees, and Colon pitching ona bad ankle for the whole first half of the season.

Frankly, I'm still somewhat amazed we won the West (and now you know why I think Vlad deserves the AL MVP).

That said, I don't want to take anything away from the Sox. While we have certainly helped them along, it shows you have a quality team when your pitchers can go out there and have less than top stuff (let's face it, neither Schilling nor Martinez were exactly dominant), and still get the job done, and your hitters keep finding ways of coming through with the clutch hits.

I'm rooting for the Halos, of course, but I think Boston has a great team. If they had anyone good past their top two starters, they might have even finished with the best record in baseball. :)

CR

[Mr. Wednesday]

The pitches that I saw analyzed, except for the Bellhorn walk, were called correctly (and in defense of the umpire, the pitch called ball 4 there caught the front knee and wound up near the dirt when Molina caught it, which is in my observation a difficult call that is frequently missed).

Most of the pitches that seemed to upset the crowd were outside all the way and good calls by the ump.

WRT the Bellhorn pick-off, I really think he would have been back in safely (in a close play) if he hadn't slipped. Considering the likelihood of that happening vs. the likelihood of an errant throw by Molina, I'm not sure that was really a smart play by the Angels, although it certainly did work out well for them.

[Desnudo]

The pitches that I saw analyzed, except for the Bellhorn walk, were called correctly (and in defense of the umpire, the pitch called ball 4 there caught the front knee and wound up near the dirt when Molina caught it, which is in my observation a difficult call that is frequently missed).

Most of the pitches that seemed to upset the crowd were outside all the way and good calls by the ump.

WRT the Bellhorn pick-off, I really think he would have been back in safely (in a close play) if he hadn't slipped. Considering the likelihood of that happening vs. the likelihood of an errant throw by Molina, I'm not sure that was really a smart play by the Angels, although it certainly did work out well for them.

I noticed that too. It didn't seem to be the most knowledgable crowd in the world. They'd boo pitches nearly a foot outside the zone. In the umps defense, he called it tight on both sides the whole game. ESPN tried to play it like it was all the Angels, but that was trying to create a story out of nothing. I saw Pedro get a couple of pitches down the middle called balls during that foulfest in the 7th.

[BishopMVP]

It didn't seem to be the most knowledgable crowd in the world.Don't forget the booing of Pedro after he hit a guy to load the bases with one out. Bill Simmons talked a lot about this in his column, including this exchangeMy buddy Hench and I were walking into the game and doing the "Let's go Sox!" routine every time we walked by someone wearing a Sox hat or jersey. I mentioned how there were a surprising number of Sox fans walking around, followed by Hench joking that the number of Angels fans at Friday's game at Fenway would be either zero or zero. So some Stepford fan turns around and sneers, "You gotta get there first!"

Um ... what?

"You gotta get there first!"

Apparently the chip in his skull was malfunctioning.

"We're up 1-0 in a five-game series," Hench said. "I'm pretty sure we're making it to Game 3."

[Desnudo]

Don't forget the booing of Pedro after he hit a guy to load the bases with one out. Bill Simmons talked a lot about this in his column, including this exchange

That seems about par for Orange County. He mentioned people heading for the exits when it was 4-3. I couldn't believe there were a good amount of empty seats behind home plate.

[Chief Rum]

Felt compelled to respond to some of this...

Mr. Wednesday: I didn't think the calls were as bad as the crowd or announcers amde them out to be. But that called third strike on Glaus was bullshit.

As for Molina and the likelihood of an errant throw--not likely. He's not much worse of a defensive catcher than his brother, and pickoffs like that were common from those two this year (and often successful).

Desnudo: It's a partisan crowd. Of course they're going to boo close calls that go against the home team. Comeon, BoSox fans and other teams' fans do it, too. Don't tell me homerism is only alive and well in Anaheim. :)

BishopMVP: I didn't see the plunking by Pedro, but a lot of Anaheim hitters have been getting hit by pitches this year (and only Eckstein does it on purpose ;) ). One of Guillen's tirades early on the year revolved around his belief the pitchers weren't protecting the ANgel star hitters because they were getting hit so much. And two weeks ago, Vlad got beaned in the helmet with high heat, almost knocking him out. So forgive Angels fans if they are a little sensitive and protective about plunkings (even in situations that help the team).

Bill Simmons ain't exactly impartial, BTW. ;)

Note to Bill SImmons' buddy Hench. The reason he won't see Angels fans in Fenway is because no one, once in California, would actually move to Massachusetts. :)

Unfortunately, this area is plagued by a lot of transplants dissatisfied with their points of origin.

Desnudo #2: I'm not going to say Angels' fans don't do the whole arrive late-leave early thing. That's an established SoCal "tradition" unfortunately. Nor am I going to say the number and percentage of diehard Angels fans compares to the same in Boston. That said, if you don't think people care about the Angels in OC because they don't fit your worldview of the perfect fan, then you must have missed the entire 2002 postseason (which you might have--the Red Sox weren't in it ;) ).

I gotta get my smack talk in when I can, becuase we're getting our butts kicked. :)

CR

[Godzilla Blitz]

CR: The Red Sox have guys dinged up or rusty from lack of playing time due to previous injuries, but I think they've only got one player not on the playoff roster due to an injury (Williamson), and for the most part are in remarkably good health for this late in the year. They've been fortunate in this regard.

Do you think the Angels are worn out? They strike me as a team playing tired. The sluggish defense seems fundamentally off, and that stuff seems to happen when guys are playing hurt or fatigued. I wonder if all the injuries and the final rush to win the Wild Card has simply emptied their gas tank.

....

I'd be happy with the Sox winning the series in five games, of course, but along the lines of getting as much rest in the playoffs as possible, it would be a nice bonus if the Sox could win the series in three or four games. Lining up a rested Schilling and Martinez for games 1 & 2 of the ALCS would be a big plus, especially if the Twins/Yankees series could run five games and knock Santana/Mussina out until game 3.

[Chief Rum]

CR: The Red Sox have guys dinged up or rusty from lack of playing time due to previous injuries, but I think they've only got one player not on the playoff roster due to an injury (Williamson), and for the most part are in remarkably good health for this late in the year. They've been fortunate in this regard.

Do you think the Angels are worn out? They strike me as a team playing tired. The sluggish defense seems fundamentally off, and that stuff seems to happen when guys are playing hurt or fatigued. I wonder if all the injuries and the final rush to win the Wild Card has simply emptied their gas tank.

....

I'd be happy with the Sox winning the series in five games, of course, but along the lines of getting as much rest in the playoffs as possible, it would be a nice bonus if the Sox could win the series in three or four games. Lining up a rested Schilling and Martinez for games 1 & 2 of the ALCS would be a big plus, especially if the Twins/Yankees series could run five games and knock Santana/Mussina out until game 3.

I don't want to make excuses for the Angels. Injuries or no, I believe the team we have on the field now is significantly less talented than the Red Sox, whom I consider to be a very, very good team.

That said, I think a healthy lineup and an unsuspended Guillen would be a much tougher test for the Red Sox than the current team is giving. Do I think they are worn out from the injuries and the chase to the AL West crown? Yeah, a bit--I wonder if they are emotionally drained right now. But that's only a factor--I really think it comes down to the talent on the field, and short those players, that's a significant disadvantage.

I certainly understand wanting to get the series out of the way, but I am hoping the Angels will spoil your hopes. ;)

CR

[Desnudo]

Felt compelled to respond to some of this...

Desnudo: It's a partisan crowd. Of course they're going to boo close calls that go against the home team. Comeon, BoSox fans and other teams' fans do it, too. Don't tell me homerism is only alive and well in Anaheim. :)

Desnudo #2: I'm not going to say Angels' fans don't do the whole arrive late-leave early thing. That's an established SoCal "tradition" unfortunately. Nor am I going to say the number and percentage of diehard Angels fans compares to the same in Boston. That said, if you don't think people care about the Angels in OC because they don't fit your worldview of the perfect fan, then you must have missed the entire 2002 postseason (which you might have--the Red Sox weren't in it ;) ).

I gotta get my smack talk in when I can, becuase we're getting our butts kicked. :)

CR

#1 - I love homerism when it makes sense. My point was that Angels fans need to increase their knowledge a little so they aren't booing in the wrong situations. Like was pointed out, if someone gets hit with a pitch to load the bases, that's a good thing. ;)

#2 - I don't really have a worldview of perfect fans, but they definitely don't leave early in a one run baseball game. And if Montreal were on their way to winning it all then I'm sure you'd suddenly see a ton of Expos fans. As for leaving early being a tradition, I would be suprised to see Dodgers fans leaving early in a close playoff game. Anyway, they can do whatever they want, I was just disapointed to see it happen. :p

[Mr. Wednesday]

Felt compelled to respond to some of this...

Mr. Wednesday: I didn't think the calls were as bad as the crowd or announcers amde them out to be. But that called third strike on Glaus was bullshit.I think I saw the Glaus pitch replayed, but I think it was a full-speed replay and I wasn't paying full attention to try to figure out where the pitch went. I wasn't counting that among the "pitches I saw analyzed".

I thought the way Berman et al seemed to be harping on the strike zone thing (despite the ongoing K-zone analysis validating the home plate umpire) was a little puzzling.

[Galaril]

Sweep baby!Next NY
(Sorry Minnesota nothing personal)

[Draft Dodger]

not that it means much, but David Ortiz didn't even come close to tagging 3rd base...

what a wild game.

[SackAttack]

Doesn't mean a thing. the other run(s) still score, game over.

[Galaril]

not that it means much, but David Ortiz didn't even come close to tagging 3rd base...

what a wild game.

LOL

[Ksyrup]

So...what are the predictions for the Boston/NY series... :p

[Cringer]

So...what are the predictions for the Boston/NY series... :p


i'll go with the Yankees all the way... :D